Avanta Boot Labs Slam Karen Chen For Boot Problems

[berthesghost]

Boot problems. Bad results. Overly involved Asian dads. I guess 1997 is back in style

 

[Debbie S]

Why does Karen have so many issues finding boots? I’ve never heard a skater talk about boots as much as Karen Chen.

Just because other skaters don't talk about boot problems doesn't necessarily mean they haven't had problems. We hear what skaters tell us, which isn't always the whole story. Karen might not be an anomaly, we don't know.

 

[Vagabond]

Boot problems. Bad results. Overly involved Asian dads. I guess 1997 is back in style

1997 is always in style.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Um, @Tinami Amori, exactly how do you know EXACTLY what went on here??

Valid question. but i gave my word to two people, and will not say more. I am also interested where TSL got their info, and i am sure they won't tell either. Take your pick which story is more valid, or if either.

 

[Wyliefan]

It doesn't seem terribly ethical of those two people to share private e-mails between Karen's father and Avanta.

 

[Spun Silver]

It doesn't seem terribly ethical of those two people to share private e-mails between Karen's father and Avanta.

One of those two parties clearly wanted them to.

 

[aml78]

Just because other skaters don't talk about boot problems doesn't necessarily mean they haven't had problems. We hear what skaters tell us, which isn't always the whole story. Karen might not be an anomaly, we don't know.

Yes of course. But it just seems to be a really big challenge for her and I don’t recall hearing about boot problems much, ever. It feels extreme.

 

[Japanfan]

Just because other skaters don't talk about boot problems doesn't necessarily mean they haven't had problems.

Kevin Reynolds had serious boot issues some years ago, which had an adverse impact on his skating (think he had a host of injuries as well).

 

[MacMadame]

Michelle Kwan had boot issues too. Also, I think Timothy Goebel.

And a few other people mentioned further back in the thread.

 

[overedge]

Why does Karen have so many issues finding boots? I’ve never heard a skater talk about boots as much as Karen Chen.

Look up Kevin Reynolds two or three years ago. He went through something like six different types of boots in one season (all from different manufacturers, though, IIRC - I don't think he had a sponsorship deal).

 

[overedge]

There's a lot of things that are amazing (not in a good way) in this whole epic, but I can't help but think that skating boots are a fairly limited market already. I guess the big manufacturers like Edea, Gam, Jackson, and so on sell enough to be financially viable - I don't know if any of them are owned by larger companies that have the resources to withstand losses. But anyway, it doesn't seem like the kind of market where a smaller, newer brand can afford to make too many mistakes if it wants to establish itself as a presence.

So however much truth there is in the TSL "breaking the boots" story, Avanta seems to have made a LOT of mistakes with its behavior even before that. The TSL story might make things even worse. I can't imagine how Avanta can possibly think that it looks good after all this, or that other skaters will want to buy its products now - not only because of its public statements, but also its "get the boots serviced in one location only" attitude, which is completely impractical for every skater who doesn't live within a reasonable distance of that location. I honestly don't see how a new, small company can make a go of it when it acts like Avanta has.

 

[Debbie S]

I don't think it's a policy that boots must be entirely serviced at their shop. But they (and I imagine other boot manufacturers too) probably have some caveat about structural modifications...it sounds like they allege Karen had the sole/heel modified by someone else...that would go beyond standard maintenance like sharpening or blade mounting or stretching. Generally, for major problems or replacements (tongue replacement, reinforcements/rebuilds), boot companies want you to have them do the work. And local fitters/techs tend to shy away from significant work and tell you to send the boot to the company anyway.

So much of what has been posted is gossip and innuendo, we don't really know what happened. I'm not defending Avanta but I have a hard time believing TSL's version that they "broke" her boots intentionally.

 

[kittyjake5]

Boot problems. Bad results. Overly involved Asian dads. I guess 1997 is back in style

You have not lost your sense of humor from back in the day bg.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Hasn't she been on the ice choreographing and practicing for Stars On Ice, though? I know the demands on boots are very different between competition and show skating, but in a trial I'd think it would substantially weaken any claim that Avanta kept her from going to worlds or damaged her career.

She was on ice as late as yesterday.

 

[Frida80]

She was on ice as late as yesterday.

Being on ice is different than landing jumps.

 

[el henry]

Karen is doing choreo with Rohene.
on ice:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg4hCgGBkgV/?taken-by=roheneward

off ice:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg4qhVsBld0/?taken-by=roheneward

Which may also be different than landing jumps too, I do not know.

 

[Sylvia]

Karen also had a new SOI program choreographed recently by Randi Strong in Canton, MI: https://www.instagram.com/p/BgopsJCHTGw/

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Being on ice is different than landing jumps.

Oh really.

She was doing jumps, not with great success though.

 

[overedge]

I don't think it's a policy that boots must be entirely serviced at their shop. But they (and I imagine other boot manufacturers too) probably have some caveat about structural modifications...it sounds like they allege Karen had the sole/heel modified by someone else...that would go beyond standard maintenance like sharpening or blade mounting or stretching. Generally, for major problems or replacements (tongue replacement, reinforcements/rebuilds), boot companies want you to have them do the work. And local fitters/techs tend to shy away from significant work and tell you to send the boot to the company anyway.

That's what I meant by "serviced" - the major structural work, not the adjustments that good skate fitters/techs can do on their own.

IIRC some of the boot manufacturers have training courses that fitters/techs can take to be certified (for lack of a better word) to do structural work on the boot that won't void the warranty. But it sounds like Avanta has a more restrictive policy than that.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Karen is doing choreo with Rohene.
on ice:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg4hCgGBkgV/?taken-by=roheneward

This will be so interesting. I think he can create something without taking away from her own creative talent.
Good, good move!

 

[supergirl573]

Doesn’t Karen have flat feet or something?

 

[LarrySK8]

I think Chen has acted like a brat.

 

[leigh466]

I think treating an 18 year old kid like this is beyond despicable, and I very much hope this company is driven out of business.

 

[Tinami Amori]

......but I have a hard time believing TSL's version that they "broke" her boots intentionally.

Dave Lease is really “David Leech”; he leeches off information received through private sources on trust; he twists, omits and adds facts in the most provocative and disparaging ways, while hiding behind the word “allegations”, all for personal and financial benefit of his commercial site.

Neither Karen, nor Avanta naturally, would have given his twisted version of events, no matter how different each side’s position is in the situation. Lease did it for no other reason but to attract more viewers to his site, knowing that such version is not true and an exaggeration. He’s been doing it for a long time, and towards many people.

I am not a fan of Ashley Wagner, and the following is not a pretense that I care about her reputation. But I will use her case as an example, and will refer to her as Skater-A, just to demonstrate.

- Skater A had a foot issue/some pain, at SA had an obvious dark bandage vs. skin tone.

- Skater A has a poor skate in SP, proceeds to FS out of top 3, does not complete an important 3x3 combo, stops shortly after and withdraws stating too much pain.

Sure! ... assumptions can be made “She did it for the show, to be a hero, for sympathy, for possible later excuse of poor performance, left herself a room to withdraw in case event is not going well”…. … yes, all that is possible, and it is all speculations which can be entertained, as such happened before in skating world.

But Lease went further. He claimed it is all a planned conspiracy: that Skater-A planned it all from the start, showed up out of obligation, intentionally placed dark bandage, planned in advance to not complete her FS, and used the gimmick of ‘the dark bandage” to set up the scene.

His commentary on skating events is his business and his right, he knows a lot of information, has interesting observations and it is a legitimate “asset” to set up a youtube channel and to sell this info on line. But his 2nd half of the “asset” that he is selling on-line is a) not his to sell, b) often consists of near-lies, twisting of facts and misinformation about others which he swindled out of people or received in confidence. He feels he has a right to say what he says, knowingly it is not always true or that it is not proven, and hides behind the term “ALLEGEDLY”… and so far goes unpunished for making money off people's often INVENTED misfortunes... that is not "his asset" to sell.

Chen and Avanta, both, retained lawyers over the current events, and I hope they take a note of TSL channel information.

 

[Vagabond]

(The confrontation between Avanta and Karen's father was unbelievably immature to even repeat. Same for a lot of internal/private email and twitter exchange between the 2 parties and related people.)

Dave Lease is really “David Leech”; he leeches off information received through private sources on trust

 

[Tinami Amori]

What is your point?

 

[Yazmeen]

What is your point?

Hmm, let's see, you spilled the private details on what supposedly really happened between Karen and Advanta on a message board (and not even in the more private section, but where the public can access it). Meanwhile you accuse Lease of "leeching off information received through private sources on trust."

Pot, kettle, black, babycakes.

 

[suef]

According to an instagram post from today, it looks like she is officially with Jackson.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg6vkBFhgb_/?taken-by=karebearsk8

 

[Vagabond]

Hmm, let's see, you spilled the private details on what supposedly really happened between Karen and Advanta on a message board (and not even in the more private section, but where the public can access it). Meanwhile you accuse Lease of "leeching off information received through private sources on trust."

Pot, kettle, black, babycakes.

I would have phrased it as "lack of any self-awareness or critical thinking." But that will do.

 

[Coco]

Tinami's believes her info to be true and 'unspun' while she believes TSL to be deliberately spinning or lying about their knowledge for commercial gain.