Avanta Boot Labs Slam Karen Chen For Boot Problems

[overedge]

I doubt USFS thinks Karen is "irreplaceable." I doubt they think that of any of their single skaters anymore, except for Nathan Chen. It's all about winning medals or, if that's not realistic, at least skating up to your abilities. They want skaters who have strong technical skills and are reasonably consistent.

Karen is a lovely skater but she currently appears to lack both those qualities. I listened to what Doug Haw said about her technique on TSL and it sounds like she may be facing a difficult to correct problem with her jumping technique.

As for the boot issue, for Karen's sake it needs to become a non-issue as quickly as possible. It doesn't matter who was right and who was wrong. It's one of those things that never makes a skater look good in the eyes of their federation.

It does matter who's right and who's wrong when one party makes public statements about the other that are way out of proportion to what happened.

Fixing boot issues isn't always simple or quick, and you're making it sound like Chen isn't doing anything about her problem and doesn't care how it affects her skating. I seriously doubt that either of those things are true.

And criticizing skaters' consistency, or lack thereof, is really annoying. Skaters at Chen's level are hard workers, and they're perfectionists. They're not going out there thinking, Whee, I'm going to screw some things up today just because I feel like it. They want to do their best, and they know full well what will happen to their careers and opportunities if they don't. And they know how it makes them look to their federation. Inconsistency bothers them as much as it bothers you.

 

[mag]

I would say from personal experience that the inconsistency bothers the skaters a whole lot more than it bothers the fans. Just because they aren’t flippy out in public doesn’t mean it isn’t driving them crazy inside. I have hear the rants “why is it I could land all those jumps yesterday and run clean progams and today I can’t even get the rotation?”

Skating is hard and I would bet good money that skaters from the past who are held up as models of consistency would not be if they were skating now.

 

[MacMadame]

According to SNG’s original post

I am taking everything SNG says with an enormous quantity of salt.

My point though was not really about the exact timing. My point was, in fact, that we don't know the timing, and that all these comments about how "irresponsible" and the like it is to be skating on the temp mount are off-base because (a) we have no idea when or for how long this mount existed and (b) if you do major work on your skates that include changing your mount, of course you are going to have a temp mount until you are sure the new blade placement is correct.

 

[MadMac]

Skating is hard and I would bet good money that skaters from the past who are held up as models of consistency would not be if they were skating now.

THIS! One of my coaches is a former Olympian, and we talked about this year's Olympics quite a bit. He kept saying how much more technically demanding skating is these days than even just 20 years ago.

 

[skatepixie]

I only know Will from a years ago at Klingbeil; Will was, and I hope still is, a very nice guy. Soft-spoken, polite and very careful about his work. I have to think that Avanta has turned themselves upside down to get it right for her only to have their work compromised by various other techs and then feel blamed for her continuing complaints about her boots. The boots were likely made from fine materials specifically for her (heck my Klingbeils were made for me) and fitted, fitted and refitted. Doesn't mean problems don't occur, they do. But I think they've had it with her and there may be good reason for that. I don't know but I wouldn't assume Avanta is automatically wrong - I think it would take a lot for Will Murillo to complain in public. Granted, it could have been much more measured in tone.

Yeah, and they were also sponsoring her. Who knows how many times they told her to quit mouthing off, and she refused to.

I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt...

 

[rvi5]

I am taking everything SNG says with an enormous quantity of salt.

My point though was not really about the exact timing. My point was, in fact, that we don't know the timing, and that all these comments about how "irresponsible" and the like it is to be skating on the temp mount are off-base because (a) we have no idea when or for how long this mount existed and (b) if you do major work on your skates that include changing your mount, of course you are going to have a temp mount until you are sure the new blade placement is correct.

I think Karen would have reported the boot problems to Avanta ASAP after returning from the Olympics. Likewise, Avanta would insist on examining the boot. Except for the photo in the original post in this thread, I haven’t yet located the other photo mentioned by “Debbie S”. Avanta’s IG page displays an error, and I can’t find any other skate photos. If the photo does show the existence of the shims, it seems likely SNG was also truthful about the screws (speaking from a technical point of view).

We seem to have had different objectives. My purpose was to determine the ‘probable’ timing, if possible. Since in Avanta’s initial angry instagram post, they accused Karen of misrepresenting the ‘chain of events’.

 

[Debbie S]

Except for the photo in the original post in this thread, I haven’t yet located the other photo mentioned by “Debbie S”.

That's the same photo I was referring to. It was originally posted by Karen, then reposted by Avanta on their IG.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Yeah, and they were also sponsoring her. Who knows how many times they told her to quit mouthing off, and she refused to.

I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt...

I am not taking sides, but i love "mysteries", and after reading "everything posted" on the subject, do think there is more to the story on the boot-maker's side. Maybe Avanta gave Karen free boots for 2 years, and had to deal with a lot of issues as a result of doing her a favor and saving her lots of money.

Maybe Avanta thought that people in the skating world (those who do buy customs boots) know very well that Karen's boots are made by Avanta, and when she complains about it so often it is clear to all it is about Avanta. Maybe Karen's mother (there was a "tiger mom" mention in the original exchange) was communicating with them, and that did not go well.... Maybe Karen did not twitted "Avanta", but said it to people in a conversation, and Avanta heard it by word of mouth... The company's response sure shows a lot of frustration, and surpasses any common sense "customer service 101" behavior.... Maybe they are so ticked off, that they don't care about consequences.... When a small people-oriented word-of-mouth business, not previously known for such outbursts, is willing to commit a PR-suicide, something serious must have pushed them to it.

What if Karen got 2 years worth of free expensive product, gave the manufacturer a lot of trouble, had her mother call them as well, complained constantly about "boot problem which many knew is Avanta", then the "third party issue", then posted "pray for me" before the Olympics....maybe Avanta got a load of problems for being nice and sponsoring Karen.... and yes, their PR-tactic is not the best in this case.

 

[rvi5]

OK, thanks.

The shims don’t show in that photo. The black area, is just the gap between the boot and grey sole. The drooping sole appears to be hiding the shim location.

ETA: in any case, we would need to see a photo from both sides of the skate to be sure. If the shim is anything like those I had on my skis, they are wedge shape, and thin. Mine were about 1/8” at the thickest side, tapering down to nothing across the width. If you look at a photo of the thinest side only, you may not be able to see it.

 

[MacMadame]

We seem to have had different objectives. My purpose was to determine the ‘probable’ timing, if possible. Since in Avanta’s initial angry instagram post, they accused Karen of misrepresenting the ‘chain of events’.

Since Karen never represented a 'chain of events' at all, I see no point in trying to decide what it must have been based on a very low-quality picture posted on the internet between the SP and LP and some comments made by the company who started all the drama by accusing her of some very bad things.

 

[overedge]

Yeah, and they were also sponsoring her. Who knows how many times they told her to quit mouthing off, and she refused to.

I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt...

She never mentioned Avanta by name. I'd hardly call that "mouthing off".

 

[skatepixie]

I am not taking sides, but i love "mysteries", and after reading "everything posted" on the subject, do think there is more to the story on the boot-maker's side. Maybe Avanta gave Karen free boots for 2 years, and had to deal with a lot of issues as a result of doing her a favor and saving her lots of money.

Maybe Avanta thought that people in the skating world (those who do buy customs boots) know very well that Karen's boots are made by Avanta, and when she complains about it so often it is clear to all it is about Avanta. Maybe Karen's mother (there was a "tiger mom" mention in the original exchange) was communicating with them, and that did not go well.... Maybe Karen did not twitted "Avanta", but said it to people in a conversation, and Avanta heard it by word of mouth... The company's response sure shows a lot of frustration, and surpasses any common sense "customer service 101" behavior.... Maybe they are so ticked off, that they don't care about consequences.... When a small people-oriented word-of-mouth business, not previously known for such outbursts, is willing to commit a PR-suicide, something serious must have pushed them to it.

What if Karen got 2 years worth of free expensive product, gave the manufacturer a lot of trouble, had her mother call them as well, complained constantly about "boot problem which many knew is Avanta", then the "third party issue", then posted "pray for me" before the Olympics....maybe Avanta got a load of problems for being nice and sponsoring Karen.... and yes, their PR-tactic is not the best in this case.

Pretty much this. We don't know what happened behind the scenes.

I happily wear Harlick books, but if I were an Avanta customer, this wouldn't change that. Although it might not have been the best move on Avanta's part, depending on how people view it.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

A sponsor is not a friend. A sponsor doesn't work "for free" or give free skates because they like someone personally. Sponsorship is a business decision where you invest in someone successful because you think it will, in the long run, be financially beneficial for your company.

If Avanta can't handle that and acts like some hurt teenage lover being cheated on, they shouldn't be a company, they should be some guys making boots for their best friends.

If you think the athlete you are sponsoring is not giving back what you expect, you make a call and discuss how to end the cooperation. That's how professionals work.

 

[arakwafan2006]

DId anyone see John Wilson write anything when Rafael went and basically found a stone to grind down Nathan's blades at Nationals, or whatever the hell he did? Gold Seal's are a doozie to sharpen for an inexperienced skate tech. I have known several skaters have their Rocker's sharpened right off. Still, they said nothing. I'm sure they cringed but oh well and it's widely known that Nathan uses Gold Seal Revolution Blades.

Has anyone read hotel reviews lately or reviews of large companies? Customers go on and say the stupidest things and the hotel takes the high road every time, apologizing and offering concessions. Then, here comes Avanta. I could only describe it as a small business owner that chose to respond to an email after having cocktails. Avanta is Avanta because Kliengbeil was struggling and went bankrupt/closed... whatever. They were bought i believe by a company. The more established Harlick's and SP Teri's of the world are having a hard enough time keeping up with the Edea's and Jackson's of the world which hardly leaves room for Avanta in terms of market share anyway. They are the LAST company that should have said a word.

Now, do i believe that they were more than generous... free boots quarterly? YES! Do i think that Karen should have had a reputable company remount her blades? Yes. Do i understand how time ran out? yes. Do i believe that Avanta's require a bit more knowledge from the skater and skating pro? CLEARLY. Still, that scathing breakup letter was awful. I don't know how much the company does in revenue but it could not have been much given their financial woes. I hate to see American boot companies struggle but this was pretty disgusting to witness. Who do you know that skates on the boots that don't crease?

 

[aftershocks]

There's a lot going on in this thread, of course. These are some of my initial thoughts upon reading some of the posts:

... I believe the ones who are failing to look at Avanta’s behavior as a whole and are expressing that Karen posting a pic of her boot and [annoyingly] mentioning boot problems and having a bad Olympic showing and having an inconsistent career is equitable to what Avanta did truly believe Karen deserves to be punished…

Huh? I think you are reaching and being over-emotional about this situation. It's a sad set of circumstances all around. Avanta is completely in the wrong for their post and subsequent hole-digging. Karen does not deserve their opprobrium in any way.

Anyone who looks at this logically with some sanity realizes there are different things going on here that are separate and should not be lumped together. It's too bad that this has happened. I do not blame Karen for Avanta's egregious behavior. OTOH, as an entirely separate matter, I personally did not have any sympathy or regard for Karen whining about a boot problem at the Olympics the evening before her fp. That doesn't mean I don't believe it was a serious issue, obviously it was/is and unfortunately it has escalated to this weird degree.

Regarding the entirely separate matter of facing an equipment problem, athletes face all manner of serious complications all the time, but it's bad form to set yourself up for a fall-back excuse. The boots were a mess, yes. But go out there and buck up and do your best and overcome whichever way you can. Also, and as a separate matter, Karen needs to examine her own part in not ensuring her boots were in better shape before leaving for the Olympics.

Hanyu didn't whine to his fans about not being fully healed. Nope, Hanyu had his eyes focused on winning and he set everything else aside after doing his utmost to be in whatever optimum shape he could manage, and with doctors' help to be as pain-free as possible. That's championship mettle. At Worlds last year, Nathan never used his reported boot worn down difficulties/crisis as the reason why he landed in 6th place instead of on the podium. He simply went out and tried his best, and he didn't choke either. When Nathan did choke in two performances at the recent Olympics, he owned up to it. Then he went out, threw caution to the wind and slam dunked his fp.

If she was having problems with her boots and the skate technician for Team USA worked on them,...

From what was posted earlier, Karen was supposed to have the mountings completed by Avanta technicians, but she apparently had a 'third party' do that work before she left California for Pyeongchang. If more work had to be done by the Team USA tech in Pyeongchang, that's in addition to the 'third party' work done in California. The blade mounting work done in California apparently was inadequate, particularly if Avanta had asked Karen to bring the boots in for them to complete that work.

 

[skatepixie]

Who do you know that skates on the boots that don't crease?

Which would those be?

 

[DimaToe]

So much

Karen Chen has had 3 good competitions her career as a senior, I doubt anyone who bothers to buy custom ice skates will blindly believe that her inconsistent career is to be only blamed on her everlasting equipment issues. The people at Avanta who have been part of this whole fiasco should have known this from the beginning. Yes it looks bad for someone who is apparently one of your bigger names say that your equipment might be faulty, but she never mentioned Avanta exclusively.

From what I see Avanta does have an argument, but pretty much f#cked themselves with how immaturely this was all brought up to the public. In a scenario in which team Chen could’ve been easily seen as the party in the wrong, Avanta is coming across as the bitter bitches instead.

BTW the amount of passion in this thread is both and

....it’s not the off season yet y’all

 

[aftershocks]

... The purpose of the interviews Karen gave was not to give a meticulous breakdown of each step of her boot problems. She was asked about her performance in the mixed zone and said "boot problems". She didn't specify anyone or any company. I think expecting Karen to name names and give a detailed explanation about the maintenance of her skates when she has 30 seconds to respond to a question is a bit much.

If I were Karen, I would not have mentioned boot problems the night before (not because of anything to do with Avanta, but just because Karen perhaps could have learned how to persevere without a fail-safe obvious excuse in the face of challenges, and learned how to overcome mistaken choices). I don't think anything Karen said or did warranted Avanta's boorish and cluelessly aggressive behavior. At press conferences, there was no reason for Karen to explain anything about boot issues. She should just have owned up to not having skated well, and nixed using any of her valid boot problems as an excuse.

I think the point is that Karen Chen is not the only skater to have had boot problems that lasted for a long time, perhaps as a way of suggesting that maybe it's not necessarily the skater that's the problem, that these things do happen… I find it curious when there are enough skaters that have had issues with boots, that fans who have zero experience with the matter like to come in and say the skater is making excuses. I've always assumed the issues are legitimate, regardless of whether I like the skater or not.

In this instance, I don't see anyone disbelieving that there was a blade mounting issue with Karen's boots, reportedly before she left for the Olympics. Karen's very valid and upsetting boot fit problems, which she earlier said Avanta had solved for her, appear to have had little to do with what happened to her boots at the Olympics. Avanta had solved the fit problems, but the blade mounting needed to be completed on Karen's latest set of boots. At least that's my understanding from what I've read here.

To me, Karen's decision to not have Avanta complete the mounting as they had cautioned, was an error on her part. But that's a very separate thing from Karen deciding to post about boot problems and ask for prayers the day before her fp. Knowing that she has a history of boot complications, Karen should have done everything in her power to be attentive to making sure her boot blades would be properly mounted before leaving for the Olympics. I don't think she was even in the right mindset to go to the Olympics in the first place. Nothing Karen had done all season long demonstrated any readiness for the Olympics, IMO.

With all these skaters having boot problems, it’s crazy that Zayak was one of the most technically strong ladies of her time when she actually lost a piece of her foot

I don't know whether it was mentioned yet, but Kristi Yamaguchi has a club foot, which is one reason why she began skating. She's been pictured barefoot and she's spoken about the condition, but it hasn't stopped her from excelling in skating and in life. Kristi is Karen's mentor, but there's only so much a mentor can do. The individual being mentored must at some point absorb the advice and encouragement and shine on their own.

 

[VGThuy]

Huh? I think you are reaching and being over-emotional about this situation. It's a sad set of circumstances all around. Avanta is completely in the wrong for their post and subsequent hole-digging. Karen does not deserve their opprobrium in any way.

You do you though I'm not sure if you read my post correctly or are choosing to take it the wrong way. I was only talking about Avanta's post and my inability to understand how anybody could read what they wrote and think any part of that is ok. I have no interest in guessing what Karen may or may not have done because I don't have any information on that but I think whatever she did was irrelevant to how a grown-ass business owner conducts himself. I observed the posting styles and posts of people who decided to be on "team Avanta" and I realized there was a common tone to it and it was seriously anti-Karen. Nothing you say is going to convince me otherwise because I, like you, have the ability to observe and absorb information and filter it through my own analysis.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

You can't compare today's skaters from skaters 25 to 50 years ago. They spent a big chunk of their time training compulsory figures not leaving the ice thus not putting the pressure on the body and feet that today's skaters do by jumping so much at practices. While the sport has changed enormously, the skates have not. Because the boot is so stiff at the ankle, the impact on the hips and spine is just insane when landing the jumps.

Coming from hockey, I'm amazed how little figure skates have evolved. While hockey skates, running shoes and other equipment is constantly evolving and adjusting to the sports and athletes, figure skates feel like using dial-up modem when surfing the web. The money is not there for lab testing, which is sad because this is a problem giving skaters serious injury problems. And it's not irrelevant injuries, it's spinal defects and teenagers getting stress fractures.

I say talk more about boot issues, not less, and get some money into research for boots that will avoid skaters destroying their bodies.

 

[Simone411]

I only know Will from a years ago at Klingbeil; Will was, and I hope still is, a very nice guy. Soft-spoken, polite and very careful about his work. I have to think that Avanta has turned themselves upside down to get it right for her only to have their work compromised by various other techs and then feel blamed for her continuing complaints about her boots. The boots were likely made from fine materials specifically for her (heck my Klingbeils were made for me) and fitted, fitted and refitted. Doesn't mean problems don't occur, they do. But I think they've had it with her and there may be good reason for that. I don't know but I wouldn't assume Avanta is automatically wrong - I think it would take a lot for Will Murillo to complain in public. Granted, it could have been much more measured in tone.

I know and understand about you mentioning that problems occur, and that your boots were fitted, fitted and refitted. Here's the deal with that. We don't know how many times Karen may have had to have her boots refitted because of problems with them. For some reason, she still had problems, though, and that tells me that apparently the refitting didn't solve the problem. We have to remember that Karen never mentioned Avanta's name. It was Avanta that mentioned Karen and brought up everything.

 

[arakwafan2006]

You can't compare today's skaters from skaters 25 to 50 years ago. They spent a big chunk of their time training compulsory figures not leaving the ice thus not putting the pressure on the body and feet that today's skaters do by jumping so much at practices. While the sport has changed enormously, the skates have not. Because the boot is so stiff at the ankle, the impact on the hips and spine is just insane when landing the jumps.

Coming from hockey, I'm amazed how little figure skates have evolved. While hockey skates, running shoes and other equipment is constantly evolving and adjusting to the sports and athletes, figure skates feel like using dial-up modem when surfing the web. The money is not there for lab testing, which is sad because this is a problem giving skaters serious injury problems. And it's not irrelevant injuries, it's spinal defects and teenagers getting stress fractures.

I say talk more about boot issues, not less, and get some money into research for boots that will avoid skaters destroying their bodies.

You’re reciting well used rhetoric that is no longer true. From heat moldable boots to different tongue designs to the Edea’s( most hideous invention) to the multi material Don Jackson’s, they’ve advanced more IN the past 10 years than the 60’s- 2010. The blades have as well and not just mor than more manufacturers. K-pick, Parabolic, different materials. If anything there are a lot of options albeit not extreme. Some ideas were novel but not reliable like the hinged boots.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

You’re reciting well used rhetoric that is no longer true. From heat moldable boots to different tongue designs to the Edea’s( most hideous invention) to the multi material Don Jackson’s, they’ve advanced more IN the past 10 years than the 60’s- 2010. The blades have as well and not just mor than more manufacturers. K-pick, Parabolic, different materials. If anything there are a lot of options albeit not extreme. Some ideas were novel but not reliable like the hinged boots.

Are skates really flexible enough at the ankle though? Mine are not very flexible, compared to my hockey skates the difference is absurd ( I understand they can't be the same of course) and I actually study the ankle bend when watching elite skaters landing and I don't see much. But if what you say is true I would be glad, of course. According to my skate guy, Parabolic is a total gimmick tho, lol.

 

[hanca]

You can't compare today's skaters from skaters 25 to 50 years ago. They spent a big chunk of their time training compulsory figures not leaving the ice thus not putting the pressure on the body and feet that today's skaters do by jumping so much at practices. While the sport has changed enormously, the skates have not. Because the boot is so stiff at the ankle, the impact on the hips and spine is just insane when landing the jumps.

Coming from hockey, I'm amazed how little figure skates have evolved. While hockey skates, running shoes and other equipment is constantly evolving and adjusting to the sports and athletes, figure skates feel like using dial-up modem when surfing the web. The money is not there for lab testing, which is sad because this is a problem giving skaters serious injury problems. And it's not irrelevant injuries, it's spinal defects and teenagers getting stress fractures.

I say talk more about boot issues, not less, and get some money into research for boots that will avoid skaters destroying their bodies.

Actually, figure skates evolved a lot! More than you probably realise. My parents bought me skates some 30+ years ago and they were not any cheap rubbish. They were from a much thinner layer of leather, which meant that they didn’t hold your ankle up. It was good for storage because you could just bend the boots, but not good for proper skating. And they were also much higher (taller) on the shin, so it was very hard to bend the leg in ankle. I kept my boots since then (I skated only very rarely, like once a year, and my foot did not grow). when ten years ago I started skating more, started taking lessons, my coach looked at my boots and asked where I got those and when. He also said that it is extremely rare that someone can have something even worse than the blue rental boots!

 

[vesperholly]

Probably the biggest innovation in skates is the lightweight aspect. My old boots are bricks compared to the Jacksons I got last year (heavy skates are good for muscle tone though ). Edea has really pushed the lightweight changes for boots. Too bad they're so fugly.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Probably the biggest innovation in skates is the lightweight aspect. My old boots are bricks compared to the Jacksons I got last year (heavy skates are good for muscle tone though ). Edea has really pushed the lightweight changes for boots. Too bad they're so fugly.

My Jacksons are an old model but only 2-3 years and man, do they feel heavy.

When I got my True hockeyskates, my feet were filmed by an iPad, and a virtual 3D model were made and sent to the factory for custom made skates. When I bought my Jacksons and he pulled out that measuring tool it did feel...eh...let's say old school lol.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I have no interest in guessing what Karen may or may not have done because I don't have any information on that ...

For the record, and you know i am fan of Karen's skating and glad she earned a spot on Oly team, it was posted on IceNetwork that she is wearing "Avanta" boots. So it is no illogical for Avanta to see connection between her tweet and their brand's name.
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017...rio-puts-in-final-hours-of-prep-before-worlds
"For the past three weeks or so, she's been training in new Avanta boots, with back-up skates ready and a third pair in the pipeline. She's practicing well, she said, even shrugging off a scary collision with a fellow skater at her Riverside, California, rink a few weeks back."

I also think it is possible that Avanta's reply was directed not as much at Karen, but perhaps her parents, who were the "communicators" with Avanta on the boot issues. I doubt Karen was the one picking up the phone calling Avanta with issues and complaints, she is too young to "negotiate"..

 

[VGThuy]

I also think it is possible that Avanta's reply was directed not as much at Karen, but perhaps her parents, who were the "communicators" with Avanta on the boot issues. I doubt Karen was the one picking up the phone calling Avanta with issues and complaints, she is too young to "negotiate"..

No, I don't believe so. They tagged her IG account and wrote this:

Http://people.com/sports/winter-olympics-2018-karen-chen-boot-troubles Karen, it is unfortunate that you have continued to disgrace the meaning of an Olympian with your words. It is also unfortunate and hurtful that your portrayal of the narrative you are espousing contains an inaccurate depiction of the chain of events which has led you to lay blame on others outside your circle. To this end, and after being marginalized, ridiculed, besmirched, and violated, I have an obligation to speak out. For 2 years AVANTA has been out fitting you with the worlds most technologically advanced skating boots, and the results of your skating has proved that out. Every pair of AVANTA boots for you were built identically and tested by you to your satisfaction. And to our abject horror, the work done on your Olympic boots and blades after you took possession of them was nothing short of pure alteration. Who did this work and why??? The pictures of your Olympic boots posted by you show a misrepresentation of the truth. In closing, I must say it is unfair and unethical to have proceeded the way you did in order to divert culpability away from your malfeasance and performance.
Will Murillo.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bf9GSS7H2nQ/?taken-by=avantabootlabs

I don't see how it can be any more direct to Karen and her honor than that without being very creative and creating a storyline with multiple players.

Thank you for providing me the opportunity to re-post what was said as I suspect some people are forgetting what was exactly stated and hoping others did too. Further, Avanta did more than just write an ill-advised IG post but also created imaginary customers and defenders to reply to people in order to defend themselves and to further attack Karen.

 

[overedge]

Also very telling that Avanta's IG post insulting Chen is still there *five days* after mystery poster @SNG said Avanta was "in the process" of taking the post down

 

[just wondering]

Also very telling that Avanta's IG post insulting Chen is still there *five days* after mystery poster @SNG said Avanta was "in the process" of taking the post down

Indeed! And notably, Avanta Boot Labs deleted the portion of its original post referring the reader to "USFSA" for additional information. I suspect "USFSA" was not interested in running point for Avanta Boot Labs and asked/demanded that Avanta remove that portion of its post.

The two actions combined, (1) indicating that the post would be deleted; and (2) referring readers to USFSA, then omitting that phrase, offer a sneak peak into Avanta's media strategy. I, of course, have no idea of what its long-term strategy might be but suppose it may not be as advantageous as it had hoped.

One thing is sure, though, despite routinely competing against one another, USFS' elite skaters are a pretty tight knit group. And, Avanta Boot Labs came after one of their own. Barring a guarantee of landing a 4T & 4S in the next competition, I would be surprised if any elite skater takes a risk with a sponsorship and boots up with the volatile Avanta Boot Labs PR team. Avanta's downstream market, however, may be just fine and, in fact, may flourish with the extra publicity.

Again, just my thoughts about it all, odd as it is . . . .