Are Duhamel & Radford underrated?

[savchenkoboss]

Their impact on the sport should be more appreciated IMO. She raised the technical level of pairs skating with their arsenal of quad throws, triple lutzes, quad twists, etc....They also were very creative and artistic and worked hard to improve that aspect of their skating over the years. They won multiple world titles, and were on the podium every event from 2012-2018 in the deepest pairs field in history, apart from 2017 worlds where he was badly injured. They also are Olympic Gold, Olympic Silver, and Olympic Bronze medalists. I don't like the whole best ever discussions, but they should be regarded as having a huge legacy as one of the great pairs of the modern generations atleast.

They are also incredibly nice and kind people, particularly Meaghan. Such class acts.

 

[Icetigger]

They also were very creative and artistic

Can you explain why you think this?

 

[savchenkoboss]

Can you explain why you think this?

They weren't the most naturally elegant or polished, particularly Meaghan, but they found a unique style that worked for them and skated to very creative choreography done by Julie Marcotte, one of the worlds best choreographers. I particularly like their Adele program, they way they interpret the music is beautiful and soulful. They aren't my favorite pair, as you can tell by my username I am a Savchenko & Massot stan, but they were one of the best pairs of the last few generations, and should be appreciated. They were contenders for gold every single time they competed.

 

[Winnipeg]

Yes, they are under rated

 

[savchenkoboss]

Yes, they are under rated

They are so athletic and powerful. I saw them live at Canadians 4 and 1 years ago and the sheer power, amplitude, and quality of their twists, lifts, throws, and jumps were breathtaking.

They are also so nice and sweet, and worked so hard to improve over the years despite not having the most natural talent, especialy Meaghan. Don't you agree? By your name I assume you are Canadian just like me.

 

[MR-FAN]

There has always been a lot more focus on their weaknesses than their strengths

My favorite thing about this team is the unique entries and exists they had to many of their elements

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

and the sheer power, amplitude, and quality of their twists, lifts, throws, and jumps were breathtaking.

Dont forget they also had very well done SBS spins... better than most teams

Now that I think of it I dont know if they were underrated.... they were 2 time back to back World Champions.... I dont think of underrated skaters as people or teams who are consecutive World Champions tho.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Dont forget they also had very well done SBS spins... better than most teams

Now that I think of it I dont know if they were underrated.... they were 2 time back to back World Champions.... I dont think of underrated skaters as people or teams who are consecutive World Champions tho.

I dont mean underrated by judges. I think they were definitely marked fairly, maybe occasionaly a bit high but that is true of almost all big name skaters in the sport. I mean underrated by a lot of fans and some experts/commentators (atleast non Canadian).

I agree on their SBS spins. Always some of the best, very good unision and positions usually.

 

[screech]

they way they interpret the music is beautiful and soulful.

Really? No matter what the music was, Meagan skated with a HUGE smile on her face, making it seem like a complete lack of connection, and IMO was extremely distracting.

I give them huge credit for their technical abilities, and their SBS spins probably had the best unison of anyone, but IMO, they were not underrated.

I do look forward to seeing what she's able to do with other teams, because she has a lot of great knowledge to pass down.

 

[savchenkoboss]

I think she smiled so much simply since she loved to skate. I am not sure I have seen anyone who loved to skate so much other than maybe Michelle Kwan. She could not contain her sheer joy and enthusiasm of being out there.

 

[MAXSwagg]

They pushed the technical envelope but most of their elements had average quality at best, and the entries and exits to their lifts and throws has absolutely nothing to do with the music. Her lift positions were not very good though she improved at the very end. What little choreography they did have on occasion was typically not very inspired and was usually disconnected, as well as whatever her “interpretation” was.

They benefited hugely from the absence of Volosozhar/Trankov and Savchenko/Szolkowy, and Sui/Han injuries in 2014-2015 season which gave the impression that they were at the level of those pairs. That gave them momentum. And they again benefitted from injuries to Klimov, Volosozhar, Trankov coming back from a major shoulder surgery, and Sui in 2016.

 

[screech]

I think she smiled so much simply since she loved to skate. I am not sure I have seen anyone who loved to skate so much other than maybe Michelle Kwan. She could not contain her sheer joy and enthusiasm of being out there.

I can appreciate the joy, but not at the cost of the program. Michelle enjoyed skating, but she didn't let her love of skating affect her performance. I've always found it kind of annoying that no matter what music it is, Meagan has a huge toothy grin on her face.

 

[savchenkoboss]

They pushed the technical envelope but most of their elements had average quality at best, and the entries and exits to their lifts and throws has absolutely nothing to do with the music. Her lift positions were not very good though she improved at the very end. What little choreography they did have on occasion was typically not very inspired and was usually disconnected, as well as whatever her “interpretation” was.

They benefited hugely from the absence of Volosozhar/Trankov and Savchenko/Szolkowy, and Sui/Han injuries in 2014-2015 season which gave the impression that they were at the level of those pairs. That gave them momentum. And they again benefitted from injuries to Klimov, Volosozhar, Trankov coming back from a major shoulder surgery, and Sui in 2016.

Stolbova & Klimov are nowhere near the pair Duhamel & Radford are. Just look at their achievements.

Duhamel & Radford- Olympic Gold, Olympic silver, Olympic bronze, 2 world titles, 2 world silvers, Grand Prix final Champions, 3 time Grand Prix final medalists.

Stolbova & Klimov- Olympic Gold, Olympic silver, 1 world silver, no other world medals, Grand Prix final champions, no other medalst at Grand Prix final. 0 European titles.

The two teams are just not even in the same universe. The other pairs you mentioned maybe in the same league as the great D&R but certainly not perennial Russian #2 or #3 Stolbova & Klimov, who couldnt even stay ahead of Tarasova & Morozov in Russia.

Duhamel & Radford cannot benefit from the absence of a much inferior pair like S&K. Now moving on from the unworthy S&K to the real opponents of D&R you mentioned.

First Volosozhar & Trankov, they were at the 2016 worlds but got their butts kicked in badly by Duhamel & Radford, then promptly retired, realizing they could not compete against the improved competition with Duhamel & Radford, Savchenko & Massot, Sui & Han. Their LP at the 2016 worlds was a hot mess, but even in the short program when they were clean they placed behind both Sui & Han and Duhamel & Radford. They were a great pair and great champions, and in 2013 and 2014 they were indeed clearly above D&R but they did not have the technical content (no quad throw, no throw triple axel, no quad twist, no side by side triple lutz, no throw triple lutz) to compete with D&R of 2015-beyond even in their prime. Especialy as like D&R they were always known as a more technical pair than an artistic one, and technically they couldnt match D&R even at their best, let alone past their physical primes as they clearly were post 2014 regardless if they competed or not.

Duhamel & Radford beat Sui & Han at the 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016 worlds. Sui & Han finally beat them at the 2017 worlds when D&R were injured, and at the Olympics, but D&R were certainly competitive with Sui & Han.

Savchenko & Massot (my favorite pair ever so if I am biased it is in favor of them) did not finally beat Duhamel & Radford until the 2017 worlds, again mainly due to Eric's shoulder injury. They lost to them decisively at Skate Canada that fall, showing that D&R were still up with and competitive with S&M. Of course at the GPF and Olympics S&M had a perfect long program and came out on top of D&R and everyone else, but D&R were certainly always competitive with S&M in their time competing together.

Duhamel & Radford have more world titles than all of Voloshar & Trankov, Sui & Han, Savchenko & Massot. All those pairs could only win 1, but D&R are so talented they won 2. They also have 4 world medals, more than all of those pairs, and 7 combined world and Olympic medals, again by far the most of all those teams (V&T are next with 5).

 

[MAXSwagg]

Stolbova & Klimov are nowhere near the pair Duhamel & Radford are. Just look at their achievements.

Duhamel & Radford- Olympic Gold, Olympic silver, Olympic bronze, 2 world titles, 2 world silvers, Grand Prix final Champions, 3 time Grand Prix final medalists.

Stolbova & Klimov- Olympic Gold, Olympic silver, 1 world silver, no other world medals, Grand Prix final champions, no other medalst at Grand Prix final. 0 European titles.

The two teams are just not even in the same universe. The other pairs you mentioned maybe in the same league as the great D&R but certainly not perennial Russian #2 or #3 Stolbova & Klimov, who couldnt even stay ahead of Tarasova & Morozov in Russia.

Duhamel & Radford cannot benefit from the absence of a much inferior pair like S&K. Now moving on from the unworthy S&K to the real opponents of D&R you mentioned.

First Volosozhar & Trankov, they were at the 2016 worlds but got their butts kicked in badly by Duhamel & Radford, then promptly retired, realizing they could not compete against the improved competition with Duhamel & Radford, Savchenko & Massot, Sui & Han. Their LP at the 2016 worlds was a hot mess, but even in the short program when they were clean they placed behind both Sui & Han and Duhamel & Radford. They were a great pair and great champions, and in 2013 and 2014 they were indeed clearly above D&R but they did not have the technical content (no quad throw, no throw triple axel, no quad twist, no side by side triple lutz, no throw triple lutz) to compete with D&R of 2015-beyond even in their prime. Especialy as like D&R they were always known as a more technical pair than an artistic one, and technically they couldnt match D&R even at their best, let alone past their physical primes as they clearly were post 2014 regardless if they competed or not.

Duhamel & Radford beat Sui & Han at the 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016 worlds. Sui & Han finally beat them at the 2017 worlds when D&R were injured, and at the Olympics, but D&R were certainly competitive with Sui & Han.

Savchenko & Massot (my favorite pair ever so if I am biased it is in favor of them) did not finally beat Duhamel & Radford until the 2017 worlds, again mainly due to Eric's shoulder injury. They lost to them decisively at Skate Canada that fall, showing that D&R were still up with and competitive with S&M. Of course at the GPF and Olympics S&M had a perfect long program and came out on top of D&R and everyone else, but D&R were certainly always competitive with S&M in their time competing together.

Duhamel & Radford have more world titles than all of Voloshar & Trankov, Sui & Han, Savchenko & Massot. All those pairs could only win 1, but D&R are so talented they won 2. They also have 4 world medals, more than all of those pairs, and 7 combined world and Olympic medals, again by far the most of all those teams (V&T are next with 5).

You can blab all the results you want. Stolbova and Klimov have the absolute best skating skills and quality of all current pairs with the possible exception of Sui and Han and Tarasova and Morozov. Outside of paper - reality - when you look at the actual skating quality and program construction, D/R are third-rate at best, which is why they had to rely on their technical (albeit mediocre) ability. Speaking of which, they are so lauded for their technical ability but if you even look at the technique of their much glorified 3Lz jumps, her technique on that jump is far from what anyone would consider "pure." Not to mention their curiously efficient (assisting? cheating?) method by which he lifts her up into one of the group five lifts.

As for Volosozhar and Trankov (and Stolbova Klimov) at 2016 Worlds (I was there), there were clearly funny levels given that suspiciously seemed to only affect the Russian pairs. Of course, this was in NORTH AMERICA.

As for Savchenko and Massot, you are biased towards Aliona, not the PAIR. Their success is almost entirely based on her name and reputation that she built Robin (of whom she and Steuer practically crapped on in their split).

Duhamel and Radford are a bit like Sale and Pelltier reincarnated. Canadian, benefited from pushed up marks, and both women very unbearable. The only difference is that even Sale and Pelltier had quality aspects.

 

[savchenkoboss]

You can blab all the results you want. But outside of paper - reality - when you look at the actual skating quality and program construction, D/R are third-rate at best, which is why they had to rely on their technical (albeit mediocre) ability. As for Volosozhar and Trankov (and Stolbova Klimov) at 2016 Worlds (I was there), there were clearly funny levels given that suspiciously seemed to only affect the Russian pairs. Of course, this was in NORTH AMERICA.

As for Savchenko and Massot, you are biased towards Aliona, not the PAIR. Their success is almost entirely based on her name and reputation that she built Robin (of whom she and Steuer practically crapped on in their split).

Duhamel and Radford are a built like Sale and Pelltier reincarnated. Canadian, benefited from pushed up marks, and both women very unbearable. The only difference is that even Sale and Pelltier had quality aspects.

It is such a shame you are such a negative and hateful person. I feel sorry for you. God bless your soul.

Eric & Meaghan if you read this site do know many of us love you, do not let hateful people like this take that away from you.

 

[Cleo1782]

I think they are slightly underrated or get too much criticism on this board. I really liked their Muse program and their Adele program. They may not be the most ascetically pleasing pairing, but I certainly respect and admire their hard work and really crunching numbers to get the best results. It's smart skating and I really like both Meagan and Eric. They seem like cool people.

 

[briancoogaert]

I think they achieved a lot considering their natural qualities, and they improved so much over the years. It shows they are very hard workers and very passionate.That's what I like the best about them : the passion they show on the ice in their programs.

 

[Icetigger]

Any discussion of Meagan Duhamel always turns in to a war zone. That in itself says something......

It is such a shame you are such a negative and hateful person. I feel sorry for you. God bless your soul.

Eric & Meaghan if you read this site do know many of us love you, do not let hateful people like this take that away from you.

To be honest, I agree with a lot of Maxswagg's commentary (less so the second post, more the first). Unfortunately with Duhamel and Radford there are a lot of negative aspects. I don't understand why you would introduce a discussion of a pair and how they are rated without expecting people to be able to take on board the negative aspects of their skating; or why when someone does consider those aspects you try to bully that person out of their opinion.

 

[Marco]

I respect their technical prowess and their consistency, and they totally deserve their hardware - but to me they are just a more finished Irina Slutskaya. They tried their absolute best but to me their skating was just not magical or touching. I think they are rated exactly where they should be. Worthy champions that were not going to be iconic. I much rather watch the top Chinese, Russian and German pairs of the same era, even with mistakes.

 

[savchenkoboss]

I respect their technical prowess and their consistency, and they totally deserve their hardware - but to me they are just a more finished Irina Slutskaya. They tried their absolute best but to me their skating was just not magical or touching. I think they are rated exactly where they should be. Worthy champions that were not going to be iconic. I much rather watch the top Chinese, Russian and German pairs of the same era, even with mistakes.

Slutskaya was a great skater, who like Duhamel & Radford made the most of more lower talent base by making the most of the abilities and talents she did have. Although unlike D&R she did not work as hard at improving her line, positioning, and artistry which did not come naturally for either Meaghan or Irina, but Meaghan worked harder on improving it.

 

[miffy]

I never liked them much although I did respect their talent. But she completely won me over with her fantastic enthusiasm and sportsmanship at the Olympics. Her excitement when Nagasu landed the 3 axel, and her warmth when Savchenko and Massot won gold

 

[julieann]

If someone hates D&R, nothing will change anyone minds. But what needs to be understood is that Stolbova and Klimov also benefited from Kavaguti and Smirnov being injured (several times) and S/K and V/T were also gifted from the Sochi Olympics being in Russia.

PS Bruno always gets a bad wrap, riding Aliona's coattails but he was very good and worked so hard to get to her level.

 

[savchenkoboss]

If someone hates D&R, nothing will change anyone minds. But what needs to be understood is that Stolbova and Klimov also benefited from Kavaguti and Smirnov being injured (several times) and S/K and V/T were also gifted from the Sochi Olympics being in Russia.

PS Bruno always gets a bad wrap, riding Aliona's coattails but he was very good and worked so hard to get to her level.

The story of Kavaguti & Smirnov is so very sad. They had such potential but due to her especialy being constantly injured they never fully fulfilled it. Such a talented team should have won atleast 1 World title and an Olympic medal. They certainly had far more talent and potential than Stolbova & Klimov ever had, even though I like them a lot too.

 

[Cleo1782]

I never liked them much although I did respect their talent. But she completely won me over with her fantastic enthusiasm and sportsmanship at the Olympics. Her excitement when Nagasu landed the 3 axel, and her warmth when Savchenko and Massot won gold

This...they aren't my favorites ever. But they seem so likeable and obviously worked hard. I am glad for their success! There is something heart warming about their hard work paying off.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Oh, please! Kavaguti and Smirnov were practically played out by 2012. I liked some of their programs but it’s time that their ubers let them go. To say that either teams could not compete with them at their best is a spectacularly stupid comment. And anyone who says S/K and especially V/T did not deserve their placements in Sochi are deluded. V/T free skating marks were very inflated (I had S/K winning that by a significant margin), and Savchenko/Szolkowy should have been closer in the SP (but it was a bad play on their part ditching that incredible When Winter Comes SP) but both teams absolutely deserved gold and silver.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^^ Honestly nothing was more brilliant in pairs in the last 8 years than The Manfred Symphonies!! What a masterpiece.

Also loved Stolbova & Klimov's Crouching Tiger
and Duhamel & Radford's Muse

One thing I wish D&R had was better costuming. But all in all I think they squeak out as my favorite pairs team between 2015-2016.

 

[Icetigger]

PS Bruno always gets a bad wrap, riding Aliona's coattails but he was very good and worked so hard to get to her level.

The criticism re Bruno is about skating skills and usually also posture, which are only a fraction of the total points. He absolutely brought the Goe on every element- lifts and twist- and also was the one who was synchronising them both on the side by side spins (you can see him doing it). Aliona knew what she was doing when she picked him (just as she knew what she was going when she picked Dean to do the choreo for the free for the Olympics); and anyone who looks at the points overall (rather than just one part of the PCS) knows he more than adequately contributed to their success.

 

[Icetigger]

Oh, please! Kavaguti and Smirnov were practically played out by 2012

Kavaguti and Smirnov by the end started to look like one of those secretly taped videos of elder abuse in an old people's home.https://youtu.be/ice8aWNT9rg?t=1m12s

I wonder what he would have been like as a partner for Aliona though instead of Bruno.

 

[savchenkoboss]

The criticism re Bruno is about skating skills and usually also posture, which are only a fraction of the total points. He absolutely brought the Goe on every element- lifts and twist- and also was the one who was synchronising them both on the side by side spins (you can see him doing it). Aliona knew what she was doing when she picked him (just as she knew what she was going when she picked Dean to do the choreo for the free for the Olympics); and anyone who looks at the points overall (rather than just one part of the PCS) knows he more than adequately contributed to their success.

He is also physically stronger and more athletic than Robin which leads to bigger twists and moves in general. Like Szolkowy & Savchenko could not have possibly won either the 2014 or 2010 Olympics even with a perfect LP skate, they still would have clearly lost to Volosozhar & Trankov and Shen & Zhao regardless; yet Szolkowy & Massot would have won both the 2010 and 2014 Olympics with their 2018 Olympics LP, if they had a clean short also. How is this so if Szolkowy is so superior to Massot, LOL!

 

[Marco]

K&S better than S&K? Really? Kavaguti never had the line of Stolbova even if she was more flexible, their twists were horrible, their SBS jumps came to a halt, and their throws could not nearly compare in quality to S&K's. S&K showed much more complex and better quality elements.

Smirnov was a great male pair skater and good for him for sticking with Kavaguti although it honestly wasted his own career. He would have a much more convincing argument to switch than Zhang Hao.