Anti-tourism protests in Europe (Barcelona, etc)

[PRlady]

Tel Aviv also has a terrible summer climate and the entire city is under construction for subways/trains that should have been built decades ago, and still no one but high-tech types can afford to live there.

Washington has also built way too many HGTV condos with outsize kitchen island, 2 beds and two huge bathrooms. We do have a young workforce but living in these shoddily constructed buildings costs a lot. The older, lovelier sections of the city are occupied by Boomers who have lived there forever and don’t want to move.

We don’t hate tourists, though, and we get a ton of them. It’s an easy city to visit because the metro goes everywhere, not typical of US cities, and all those free museums etc are bunched on the Mall. Most of us try to be helpful to them, we don’t have home grown industry other than everything related to government, and with our downtown still dead from remote working we really need the revenue.

 

[Debbie S]

Does Barcelona Hate Tourists? Why Locals Are Spraying Visitors With Water Guns

A writer based in Barcelona speaks with both residents and visitors to better understand the recent anti-tourism protests—and a potential path forward.

www.afar.com

Following the protest, city officials reiterated recent proposals to curb overtourism, including Mayor Jaime Collboni’s plan to cancel all short-term rental licenses by 2028 to create new housing for locals, ban cruise ships from docking at the city center, and increase tourism taxes from 3.25 euros to 4 euros (US$4) per person per day, by October—which is forecasted to earn the city 115 million euros by year’s end.

 

[Judy]

Deleted as Debbie S posted the same article as I just did.

 

[ballettmaus]

Being able to travel for leisure is a privilege, not a right.

I don't agree with this statement. Spanish, EU, and EEA travellers absolutely have a legal right to travel to (or live in) Barcelona as they wish, enshrined in Spanish and EU law. I'd argue international treaties give others a right to travel as well.

That you have the right by law only means that you can't be prevented from traveling. It doesn't mean that you actually can travel, as in, that your personal circumstances permit it.

So, I'd say it's both. You have the legal right in theory, in practicality, traveling is a privilege.

 

[Private Citizen]

That you have the right by law only means that you can't be prevented from traveling. It doesn't mean that you actually can travel, as in, that your personal circumstances permit it.

So, I'd say it's both. You have the legal right in theory, in practicality, traveling is a privilege.

How is that different from living in a city center? That's also a privilege. I'm sure the communists in Barcelona would disagree with me, but people don't have the right to walk into a city center apartment and claim it as their home without having to pay.

 

[canbelto]

Ok so I'll actually be staying in Barcelona for two nights this August. Thinking about booking a day trip to either Montserrat, Tarragona or Girona. Recommendations?

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Ok so I'll actually be staying in Barcelona for two nights this August. Thinking about booking a day trip to either Montserrat, Tarragona or Girona. Recommendations?

If it's your first time in Barcelona, don't leave the city. It has enough stuff for a year. Book things ahead and prepare for eyebrow raising level of prices. Exiample alone has more than enough for two nights. Just pretend to be a local so they don't spray you with water or something.

If you have already been to Barcelona and saw everything, I was only in Montserrat. It's nice. Wouldn't say there's a lot to see, but the mountains are nice, if you would like to do some hiking.

 

[Private Citizen]

I had an early morning meeting in Westminster today. As I walked past the London Eye, over Westminster Bridge, to Big Ben and Parliament, navigating through crowds, wandering around tourists blocking the sidewalk to take selfies, etc., I didn't think about shooting them with a water gun. I thought about handing each one a thank-you note for choosing to spend time in my city and contributing to our economy and taxes. As I thought about what it must be like for people who lived in the immediate vicinity, I thought about all the great neighbourhoods and our excellent public transport system, and how anyone frustrated with being in this area had many options to live nearby with all of the same advantages and far less tourism. It's really not that hard.

 

[On My Own]

I had an early morning meeting in Westminster today. As I walked past the London Eye, over Westminster Bridge, to Big Ben and Parliament, navigating through crowds, wandering around tourists blocking the sidewalk to take selfies, etc., I didn't think about shooting them with a water gun

This is so incredibly petty

 

[allezfred]

Greece to hike fee for cruise passengers to Santorini

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis has announced that a fee of €20 will be imposed on cruise passengers visiting the popular islands of Mykonos and Santorini.

www.rte.ie

 

[Judy]

Greece to hike fee for cruise passengers to Santorini

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis has announced that a fee of €20 will be imposed on cruise passengers visiting the popular islands of Mykonos and Santorini.

www.rte.ie

They’ll still do it.

 

[genevieve]

20 euros isn't exactly a deterrent for those who can afford a cruise. I wonder if cruise lines will roll it into their overall fee, and passengers won't even notice?

 

[once_upon]

20 euros isn't exactly a deterrent for those who can afford a cruise. I wonder if cruise lines will roll it into their overall fee, and passengers won't even notice?

Generally it's in the "port fees" - each port has different fees. No you won't notice

 

[Private Citizen]

Spain plans 100% tax for homes bought by non-EU residents

The measure is meant to help tackle the country's housing crisis, the prime minister said.

www.bbc.co.uk

Spain plans 100% tax for homes bought by non-EU residents

Spain is planning to impose a tax of up to 100% on properties bought by non-residents from countries outside the EU, such as the UK.

Announcing the move, Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez said the "unprecedented" measure was necessary to meet the country's housing emergency.

"The West faces a decisive challenge: To not become a society divided into two classes, the rich landlords and poor tenants," he said.

It looks like "A Place in the Sun" may need to scout out some new locations . I'm curious how this will work in reality. It isn't as if the spots where Brits and others are buying are full of businesses that can't find workers, etc.

This, to me, is yet another short-sighted policy that does little to fix the housing problem. It's a war on the mass affluent and on social mobility. The super rich will just pay the tax. Big businesses will continue to benefit. The individual person who has worked their whole life to move up the ladder and buy a vacation home will be pushed back down.

(And, before anyone asks, no -- this doesn't affect me. I'm not intending to buy property in Spain, and even if I were, I have an EU passport and can buy without this tax.)

 

[allezfred]

Hopefully more countries will follow suit. If you can afford to buy a second property, you can afford this tax.

 

[PRlady]

I wouldn’t buy property here either (I’ve got a 530-year grudge) but one of my close friends was looking into it (in Valencia like @flyingsit ). This will definitely discourage them.

 

[Private Citizen]

Announcing it before they're ready to implement it may also create a short-term property boom where people scramble to find properties before the tax goes into effect. When Scotland announced rent controls were coming, rents shot up double digits.

 

[Private Citizen]

On this topic (as with many things), I think the Swiss have it right.

The rules are complex, but the gist is:

• Non-residents require permission to buy property and may buy only one property, in specifically designated tourism areas
• Residents may buy one second home, which is registered and taxed at rental value (regardless of whether they're rented)
• Limits of 20% of housing stock in any municipality being used as second properties
• Limits on non-resident purchases per year
• Homes must be held for a minimum time (to limit flipping)

Seems entirely reasonable to me.

 

[flyingsit]

Definitely would change our plans. But it also looks like Spain's golden visa program is ending in April, and there's no way we would have a property in our hands by then. So....

 

[sk8pics]

That article says “up to 100% tax” with no info on what that really means. The prime minister also has not even said when he’ll take it up with parliament. To say “Spain plans” is really not correct; the prime minister is planning it, and who knows if it will go through or what form the final legislation will take.

 

[Private Citizen]

Definitely would change our plans. But it also looks like Spain's golden visa program is ending in April, and there's no way we would have a property in our hands by then. So....

Keep in mind, this isn't certain, and there are some ways around it. It's good that you are targeting Valencia, which is an autonomous community with the power to reject this law even if passed.

https://telegraph.co.uk/gift/60a4ba395559edee (gifted)

Uncertainty:

It remains very uncertain at this stage exactly what shape or form the increased taxation on non-EU owners might take, or that the Spanish government will manage to get the measures through parliament.

“Sánchez does not hold a majority in parliament,” says Hans Lenz, of the Balearic Association of National and International Real Estate Association. “Many of his proposals are either never approved, or can take up to a year to come into practice.” [...]

There is also the potential that legal and political action will hold up any measures.

“There will be pushback from the other parties – it’s controversial and discriminatory,” says Alex Radford, of My Lawyer in Spain.

Loopholes:

Vicente Garcia, of law firm Legal Iuris, says: “Any change [Sánchez] would like to make could be abolished by the autonomous communities. Valencia, Murcia, Andalucia, Madrid – where the majority of British buyers are purchasing property – are governed by the Partido Popular [the right-wing opposition party]."

[...]

The most obvious loophole for British buyers is if they have an EU passport – or a spouse with one – which means they can purchase (or get residency) in the name of an EU citizen. Many British nationals with Irish ancestry have taken advantage of this since Brexit.

If you have a family member already resident in Spain you could also purchase in their name, says Garcia. “You could then make them a donation.”

A donation is a gift between the members of the family so not considered a sale and subject to purchase taxes.

Another option is to become resident in Spain before you buy, as the tax rise being suggested is on non-resident buyers. You don’t have to buy a property to get residency. You can rent a property in Spain to get a visa and thus a residency permit – such as the non-lucrative visa (NLV) or the digital nomad visa. However, to receive either, you will need to meet certain minimum income requirements and also face a lot of paperwork. You may also need to become a tax resident in Spain, which won’t necessarily be desirable due to high taxes on worldwide assets.

A further option to avoid paying purchase tax could be to build your own home.

[...]

Finally, although it is far from straightforward, it could be possible to create a Spanish company to buy a property, says Radford. “It would be treated as a Spanish entity and owners would have to submit company returns.”
It costs around €2,400 (£2,025) to set up a company, says Radford, plus yearly accountancy fees of around €1,400. However, an advantage of buying as a Spanish limited company is if buyers rent out the property they get taxed at the lower EU rate of income tax – 19pc versus 24pc.

 

[Private Citizen]

Not really a protest, but Nice and neighboring Villefranche-sur-Mer are attempting to ban large cruise ships, effective July 1.

This Popular Cruising Destination on the Mediterranean Is Trying to Ban Large Cruise Ships Starting This Summer — Here's What It Means for Travelers

Nice, France might ban large cruise ships from docking or anchoring in its waters as soon as July 1.

www.travelandleisure.com

[Mayor] Christian Estrosi is proposing to forbid cruise ships with a capacity of more than 900 passengers and measuring over 190 meters (about 620 feet) in length, deeming them a form of “low-cost tourism."

“Tourism, yes, overtourism, no,” Estrosi said in a speech to Nice residents earlier this week. “The cruises that pollute and dump their low-cost clientele who consume nothing, but leave their waste behind … these cruises have no place with us.”

I agree wholeheartedly with the ban and the reasons for it. I've been to Villefranche many, many times, and I'm dubious of business owners' claims about cruise passengers being 20% of their business. The entire town is already packed to the gills, with long waits for restaurants, from May to October regardless of whether cruise ships are in town. The only difference when cruises is in town is the rubbish piled everywhere. If Villefranche needs more tourism to replace the cruise passengers, I'd suggest improving the frequency of the connections to Nice. The train and bus frequency are both completely inadequate in the high season, which leads to traffic jams as people resort to uber or taxis after being unable to get a seat on successive trains or buses.

 

[becca]

Honestly? I think part of the problem is the Air BNBs. Hotels can provide a ton for the economy with jobs also taxes! Air BNBs not so much. At the very most
you should tax them to where its not more money by to rent out short term versus long term.

It is a problem if you have people from wealthier nations going in and outbidding the locals.

This being said I kind of don't necessarily think its fair to go after anyone owning property and renting it out long term.

 

[Private Citizen]

Honestly? I think part of the problem is the Air BNBs. Hotels can provide a ton for the economy with jobs also taxes! Air BNBs not so much.

In most places, Airbnbs are subject to the same taxes as hotels.

What jobs do hotels provide that Airbnbs don't? I pay a cleaner, a property manager, an accountant, a maintenance person.... If anything, my little Airbnb creates a job v. takes away from a job. None of the people who stay at my house would visit if a hotel were their only option. I'm very confident of that based on feedback. They'd go to another destination.

Most politicians object to Airbnb because it's politically expedient, and also because they're in bed with the hotel lobbyi$t$ who want to stifle competition and protect their profit margins from entrepreneurs. Follow the campaign contributions and it becomes apparent.

At the very most
you should tax them to where its not more money by to rent out short term versus long term.

Already done in some places. But keep in mind that for many people with vacation homes, the choice is leave a property vacant 300+ days of the year or rent the property, which generates significant tax revenue for the municipality -- per-night hotel taxes, income taxes for me, income taxes for the people I employ, etc.

The Airbnb income is "nice to have" income for me. If it goes away, the city loses more than I do. I'm not going to rent the property to a long-term tenant or sell it if they tell me I can't Airbnb. Go ahead, cut off your nose to spite your face. Then there's always the black market, where I would earn more and the city would earn nothing. And good luck proving that they're not just friends or acquaintances.

Having a sensible and fair process seems better to me than bans or draconian restrictions. I do agree with sensible restrictions, including and especially limiting Airbnb to designated tourist zones. I do not think it should be operating in residential areas and support bans there. I also support communal buildings' right to ban it.

 

[Jenny]

What jobs do hotels provide that Airbnbs don't? I pay a cleaner, a property manager, an accountant, a maintenance person.... If anything, my little Airbnb creates a job v. takes away from a job.

A typical mid-size hotel employs several hundred people. In addition to your occasional staff of four, hotels have full housekeeping teams, kitchen and service staff, banquet staff, spa and fitness teams, potentially recreation staff too, not to mention sales and marketing, front of house, engineering, finance, human resources, security and more. They provide secure full time and part time jobs, with benefits often including healthcare for individuals and families. And, they provide ongoing training and opportunities for advancement or transfer to other locations if they are part of a chain.

Hotels also support local and regional businesses in many, many ways, and as prominent employers often get involved in local charitable initiatives, whether in an ongoing program or when needed, such as providing accommodations and meals for employees and their families along with community members when disaster strikes.

Not saying that there's anything wrong with owning a rental as a small business or side hustle, but it's nothing compared to what a larger hotel can contribute to the local economy. Even smaller hotels, boutiques, B&Bs and family-run establishments, provide employment and benefit other local businesses they either buy from for their own needs, or that their guests will now patronize.

Ideally, multiple business models can co-exist and benefit one another. But then again, there is very little that's ideal about anything right now.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

From what I've seen, the protests are against mass tourism

I believe it is. And I’ve witnessed it. Two towns that I remember the most are Amsterdam and Venice, you’ll see no Dutch in Amsterdam and no Italians in Venice, only people from other parts of the world walking through those cities.

Amsterdam had to finally draw the line about the big cruise ships that come there, that can’t accommodate the ships nor all the people walking down their streets. They levied a visitors tax and started denying entry to some boat.

And then, with Airbnb, it starts pricing the locals out of there own the cities including cities in Mexico from Americans.

 

[olympic]

Miami - When I moved here in 1995, it was cheap, medium-sized city with more or less unspoiled beaches, easy parking, decent food, etc. It was discovered by the masses (both tourists and new arrivals) in the 2000s and now is unrecognizable: It takes 15-20 minutes to drive down the road to CVS. Food is geared to feed the hordes, and the prices of homes is on par with NYC in some places.

ETA - I think the issue also is the quality of the tourists, who do everything from drive slowly while you are trying to get to work, to drink, carouse on quiet streets. We live near the Intracoastal Waterway which was a quiet body of water, until pleasure boats recently discovered the beauty of the area, and now cart boatloads of people, music blasing past our window.

 

[PRlady]

As someone who was just a tourist in Tenerife (Canary Islands), I’ve now seen what happens when tourists just take over the space and economy.

On a volcanic island where it’s tough to live anywhere but the coast, the coasts are almost entirely given over to hotels, resorts and supporting businesses. When you drive inland on hair-raising mountain roads, the quiet places are almost inaccessible to anyone without a car and the gumption to drive in first gear straight uphill. There’s no local culture on the coasts, just miles of Northern Europeans enjoying the mild weather.

I guess that other than vineyards and goat farms there wouldn’t be a lot there without tourism. But it feels so colonialist, all these white people sitting in bars being served by an admixture of Spaniards, Africans and south Asians.