American Women Used to Dominate in Figure Skating. What Happened?

[LimeyOrange]

There are no lack of rinks in the states. We don't need a rink in every freaking town for an elite level program. Back in the 90s, Kwans and Lipinskis emerged and US didn't have a lot more rinks then?

Of course, we don't need elite level program rinks in every city.

What we need are rinks, even half-sized ones in more than 2 or 3 cities in a state, so that children can be easily introduced to skating. Because most people aren't going to drive their children an hour each way (or more in many areas of the country) to try out a learn-to-skate program. Most children grow up never skating once, so we have no idea how much talent is never discovered. Children can't ever know if they even have an interest in skating, when they have never skated. Conversely, almost all children will play T-ball, or swim, or even have a tumbling class during their PE class. These sports can draw talent from a huge field, because almost all children have opportunities to try them out, and it's very easy for the parents of the who are interested to put them into beginner programs, because the beginner programs are right in their community. Then, of course, if talent and interest come together, parents can start looking for more rigorous programs.

But it's very obvious, that the lack of experience with children to try skating is a major reason why there is a dearth of accomplished skaters, compared to athletes in other fields.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

Even if we had more rinks, it's still the expense that'll block a lot of people. They talk about that with basketball - why there is such a talent pool in the US with basketball, as one example. The studies I've seen have shown that it's about very low barriers to entry. It's very cheap (you really only need some sort of ball and a space of some sort, and people around you who know the rules, at the core of it), and it's free in most places. We don't have that re: figure skating in the US. Even if there is a rink, you need skates and $ for the session/lessons.

 

[gkelly]

Suppose that the access to recreational skating including lower level/less intense figure skating averaged the same throughout the US as in Canada.

The percentage of children who try skating would increase significantly. That percentage might match Canada's, and the total numbers would be larger because the US population is larger.

The percentage of beginning/recreational skaters who then choose and are able to train seriously would probably stay about the same but would draw on a larger base population, so the total numbers would be higher.

I don't know that the US would really get the same level of recreational participation nationwide that Canada does, because so much less of our land area has a culture focused on winter sports. At any rate, it would be more concentrated in certain parts of the country.

But then what?

As far as I could tell when I lived in Wisconsin, there are lots of local rinks in the upper midwest. But there aren't a lot of training centers, aside from the Detroit area.

How many would-be elite skaters [would] have to relocate at young ages to pursue their dreams?

How could good technique be encouraged at lower/recreational levels so that would-be elites who start out at small rinks would be well prepared for elite training if and when they do choose to move?

 

[googooeyes]

Suppose that the access to recreational skating including lower level/less intense figure skating averaged the same throughout the US as in Canada.

The percentage of children who try skating would increase significantly. That percentage might match Canada's, and the total numbers would be larger because the US population is larger.

The percentage of beginning/recreational skaters who then choose and are able to train seriously would probably stay about the same but would draw on a larger base population, so the total numbers would be higher.

I don't know that the US would really get the same level of recreational participation nationwide that Canada does, because so much less of our land area has a culture focused on winter sports. At any rate, it would be more concentrated in certain parts of the country.

But then what?

As far as I could tell when I lived in Wisconsin, there are lots of local rinks in the upper midwest. But there aren't a lot of training centers, aside from the Detroit area.

How many would-be elite skaters [would] have to relocate at young ages to pursue their dreams?

How could good technique be encouraged at lower/recreational levels so that would-be elites who start out at small rinks would be well prepared for elite training if and when they do choose to move?

It's not just good technique. There are many many coaches in small places in Canada and the U.S. that teach really good fundamentals. In Canada, even though we have zillions of rinks everywhere, these clubs in small places don't have a lot of ice time. A club might have 2 or 3 hours a day 2 or 3 days a week if that because ice time is expensive for a small membership to carry and the ice time hours have to be shared with hockey. This is not enough to train beyond pre novice (intermediate in the US). And in Canada we lose a lot of the local girls to hockey now. In Canada the reality is to get to an elite level you have to be in one of the major training centres in either Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver. There are a few other options such as Edmonton where Kaetlyn is. Moving away is very expensive and hard on families, and especially hard on the parent's marriages and the skater's education. It can't be that much different in the U.S.

 

[clairecloutier]

Of course, we don't need elite level program rinks in every city.

What we need are rinks, even half-sized ones in more than 2 or 3 cities in a state, so that children can be easily introduced to skating. Because most people aren't going to drive their children an hour each way (or more in many areas of the country) to try out a learn-to-skate program. Most children grow up never skating once, so we have no idea how much talent is never discovered.

Definitely agree. For example, my husband's family lives in Clarksville, TN, which is a decent-sized small city of over 150,000 people. But as far as I can tell, the closest full-time ice rink is in Nashville, TN, which is about an hour away. I'm sure you'd find similar situations in many places in the U.S.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

The main hamper to talent development in North America is that skating clubs do not have real buy-in programs for skaters outside the learn-to-skate ones. Skating clubs give ice time so coaches organize their business during these periods. True and alerts would emerge if small and big skating clubs would offer more organized schedule outside the lessons given by the coaches. Eg : 3 days/week, off-ice warm-up for junior skaters from 16:00 to 16:15, on-ice session with determined times for spins/edge work/jumps under supervision. You don't need a high level coach for this, but someone who would guide the skaters through their training outside their lessons. For the parents it would be clear what is expected at each level. Training fees would spread among the skatersbut paid once a season via the club. Just having a system...

 

[Debbie S]

The problem with a "system" is that not everyone who skates wants an intensive training program. And skaters often have other activities they are involved in so they don't come to the rink each day. There are clubs in my area who have organized weekly power classes and such, buying an hour of ice that is not part of the regular FS/lesson sched, but the club takes on a risk that enough skaters will enroll to offset the cost of the ice and the instructor's fee. (And then there are also political issues with regard to choosing/promoting one coach over the others to teach. And even if you try to come up with a rotating instructor sched, clubs also face tax issues depending on how much they pay an instructor in total.)

My club considered trying to have an off-ice conditioning class at the rink preceding club ice one night. But there were some time conflicts and the board ultimately decided it was too much risk to take on...would enough students attend each week to cover the instructor cost.

Most skaters are in it for recreational purposes. They don't want to train multiple sessions a day, 5 or 6 days a week. Not everyone skates to do freestyle comps...some decide they prefer synchro or Theater on Ice. Those who want to train and compete full-out will start out with their local coaches and if they progress to the point where they need better coaching or more ice time than they can get at their home rink, they will find a training center that meets their needs. It's not realistic or cost-effective for every rink/club to organize as if all their members are training for the Olys.

 

[brennele]

There is yet another issue which no one is addressing and that is the fact that most people are not only children within the family. There are siblings, as well. Ethical parents are not going to tie up all of their discretionary income on but one child leaving the rest out in the cold, so to speak. The money spent to train just one child to become an elite skater could easily educate 2, 3 or 4 children. Even if a family had lots of disposable income - which is the exeption, anyway - how can one possibly justify spending it on but one child. As skating becomes more and more expensive as elite skaters require yet more and more training to reach that level, we are going to see less of them in the US. We cannot compete with State sponsored skating and I would be the very last person to advocate for State-sponsored skating in the US.

As we expect more and more of our skaters at the elite level we are going to have to accept the fact that the sport is going to increasingly become a rich man's pursuit and also one where the successful candidate will need to be someone willing to devote more and more energy and time to the pursuit. The person who wants the so-called "balanced" life is not going to be a successful competitor in this game. It is going to take a family able, and more importantly willing, to give it all to the skating goal and an athlete willing to give everything else up to achieve the levels needed to compete.

 

[jenniferlyon]

There is yet another issue which no one is addressing and that is the fact that most people are not only children within the family. There are siblings, as well. Ethical parents are not going to tie up all of their discretionary income on but one child leaving the rest out in the cold, so to speak. The money spent to train just one child to become an elite skater could easily educate 2, 3 or 4 children. Even if a family had lots of disposable income - which is the exeption, anyway - how can one possibly justify spending it on but one child.

That only works if there's a huge age gap between the child who skates and the other children in the family. Kurt Browning, for example, was the youngest child in his family by several years. His parents were in their forties by the time he was born. I remember in an interview (or maybe it was in his book) where Kurt said if he had been the older brother, his parents wouldn't have been able to afford all that training, since the brother was born when the parents were younger and less financially established. But most siblings are born closer together than the Brownings.

 

[jlai]

Of course, we don't need elite level program rinks in every city.

What we need are rinks, even half-sized ones in more than 2 or 3 cities in a state, so that children can be easily introduced to skating. Because most people aren't going to drive their children an hour each way (or more in many areas of the country) to try out a learn-to-skate program. Most children grow up never skating once, so we have no idea how much talent is never discovered. Children can't ever know if they even have an interest in skating, when they have never skated. Conversely, almost all children will play T-ball, or swim, or even have a tumbling class during their PE class. These sports can draw talent from a huge field, because almost all children have opportunities to try them out, and it's very easy for the parents of the who are interested to put them into beginner programs, because the beginner programs are right in their community. Then, of course, if talent and interest come together, parents can start looking for more rigorous programs.

But it's very obvious, that the lack of experience with children to try skating is a major reason why there is a dearth of accomplished skaters, compared to athletes in other fields.

Not obvious at all. US never had a gizzillion rinks in every city and US ladies did just fine until the IJS system dings flutzes and urs.

BTW, Korea didn't have trouble identifying Yuna Kim's talent back when skating wasn't even a much of a sport. Czech produced two world class male skaters with a tiny program.

You don't need a large program to have world class skaters. Other countries with smaller programs and funding got by just fine. It's nice but not a necessity.

Are you saying we need bobsled facilities in every city to have medal hopes in bobsleds? Who knows, US has no hopes in skiing then, if mountainous skiing facilities need to be in every city. In many winter sport, facilities are just not in every city. Same goes for other countries.

 

[mag]

The main hamper to talent development in North America is that skating clubs do not have real buy-in programs for skaters outside the learn-to-skate ones. Skating clubs give ice time so coaches organize their business during these periods. True and alerts would emerge if small and big skating clubs would offer more organized schedule outside the lessons given by the coaches. Eg : 3 days/week, off-ice warm-up for junior skaters from 16:00 to 16:15, on-ice session with determined times for spins/edge work/jumps under supervision. You don't need a high level coach for this, but someone who would guide the skaters through their training outside their lessons. For the parents it would be clear what is expected at each level. Training fees would spread among the skatersbut paid once a season via the club. Just having a system...

This is how many Canadian clubs operate. It has its pro and cons. If your child is “special” you get great bang for your buck. Lots of attention etc. If your child is not seen as having lots of potential, you end up subsidizing other skaters while your child is ignored. I speak as someone who has been on both side of that situation.

 

[mag]

Are you saying we need bobsled facilities in every city to have medal hopes in bobsleds? Who knows, US has no hopes in skiing then, if mountainous skiing facilities need to be in every city. In many winter sport, facilities are just not in every city. Same goes for other countries.

Except you are comparing apples and oranges. Figure skating is an early entry sport. Location and convenience of facilities is important because those entering the sport are very young and require a minimum of three days a week of training once they learn to skate. Bobsled is a late entry sport. Participants often don’t even try it until they are in University.

 

[jlai]

Except you are comparing apples and oranges. Figure skating is an early entry sport. Location and convenience of facilities is important because those entering the sport are very young and require a minimum of three days a week of training once they learn to skate. Bobsled is a late entry sport. Participants often don’t even try it until they are in University.

Every sport is apples and oranges to skating. The point isn't bobsled, but the thinking that you need double the ice rinks to produce world champions. US didn't need more ice rinks in the 90s to identify the Kwans and Lipinski's of their generation. You need good grass-root coaching where the ice rinks already are and elite training centers. Because championship entries are limited to 3 tops, you only need to produce three medal level skaters to have a shot at a medal (or 5-6 if you want backups), not 100.

BTW, where there isn't an ice rink in the US, chances are the economics and demand of the area doesn't support it.
Start by improving the existing USFS program you have (like better coaching and steering current talents to the right coaches), and increasing demand later once you have more success.

 

[GreatLakesGal]

Lipinski competed under the old 6.0 system as did Kwan for most of her skating career.

The current CoP system demands much more of skaters technically. Russia does so well because it has such a deep pool of potential talent to draw from--they can cherry-pick not just the physically strongest skaters with the optimal body type but the mentally strongest as well. If a skater is a great jumper but is an inconsistent competitor, she is simply replaced with another skater. Great coaching can only take a skater so far if the natural talent or the killer competitive instinct are lacking. The reason you need more ice rinks is to widen your pool of potential talent. Otherwise you are mostly dependent on luck--like the genetically blessed Gracie Gold attending a skating party when she was eight years old and discovering she had a talent for skating.

 

[jlai]

Lipinski competed under the old 6.0 system as did Kwan for most of her skating career.

The current CoP system demands much more of skaters technically. Russia does so well because it has such a deep pool of potential talent to draw from--they can cherry-pick not just the physically strongest skaters with the optimal body type but the mentally strongest as well. If a skater is a great jumper but is an inconsistent competitor, she is simply replaced with another skater. Great coaching can only take a skater so far if the natural talent or the killer competitive instinct are lacking. The reason you need more ice rinks is to widen your pool of potential talent. Otherwise you are mostly dependent on luck--like the genetically blessed Gracie Gold attending a skating party when she was eight years old and discovering she had a talent for skating.

Every sport in the US operates the same way -- luck. We don't have a centralized system like Russia or China and never will.
You are looking for a magic factor that will make it go away.
Does Russia have ice rinks in every town? You never answered my question. Nor can you explain whether local demands and economics support more ice rinks.

Russia - they merely have a good coach where talents come to her. I doubt they built an ice rink for everyt own. If you have a good training center like Eteri's, you will get better results. There just aren't good coaches at elite or grass root level up to competing with the Russian coaching and 500 more ice rinks won't fix it.

You keep saying more ice rinks and magically US will have medalists.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Does Russia have ice rinks in every town?

Russia had and has outdoor public skating rinks practically on every city block in most cities and towns... every few apartment building cluster has a rink like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNDgoyjTLR4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbLd1dXjxHg

For example, a relatively small city of Tumen has 115 rinks and "sports parks" (which become rinks in the winter) in the residential areas, and volunteers/parents take care of maintenance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxvdKnYSC2g.

These are not "the rules and situations" for the whole country, but it's pretty typical.

But! there are only FEW "indoor figure skating training centres" and not in every city and town by any means.

 

[jlai]

Indoor ice rinks are expensive to build and maintain (just think the water). Money could better be spent on other recreational items -- unless doubling skating participation suddenly trumps other resource priorities.

 

[Twilight1]

Where my family lives in Manitoba, curling, hockey and skating split the hours in rink. Curling being the one with most ice time.

 

[clairecloutier]

You keep saying more ice rinks and magically US will have medalists.

No one is saying this. They are saying it might HELP if we had more, and more evenly distributed, ice rinks in America, so that more kids could try skating.

Why has Canada been as, or more, successful than the U.S. in skating over the last 30 years or so, despite having a noncentralized system and less than 1/8 the population of the U.S.? Probably many reasons, including costs. But it's probably also due in part to having more rinks and access, as well as a culture that's generally more appreciative of ice sports (hockey, figure skating, curling).

This chart shows that Canada has about double the number of indoor ice hockey rinks as the U.S.: https://www.statista.com/statistics/282353/countries-by-number-of-ice-hockey-rinks/. Most likely, many of these rinks are multi-purpose and include some figure skating as well.

 

[jlai]

No one is saying this. They are saying it might HELP if we had more, and more evenly distributed, ice rinks in America, so that more kids could try skating.

Why has Canada been as, or more, successful than the U.S. in skating over the last 30 years or so, despite having a noncentralized system and less than 1/8 the population of the U.S.? Probably many reasons, including costs. But it's probably also due in part to having more rinks and access, as well as a culture that's generally more appreciative of ice sports (hockey, figure skating, curling).

This chart shows that Canada has about double the number of indoor ice hockey rinks as the U.S.: https://www.statista.com/statistics/282353/countries-by-number-of-ice-hockey-rinks/. Most likely, many of these rinks are multi-purpose and include some figure skating as well.

No one is saying this. They are saying it might HELP if we had more, and more evenly distributed, ice rinks in America, so that more kids could try skating.

Why has Canada been as, or more, successful than the U.S. in skating over the last 30 years or so, despite having a noncentralized system and less than 1/8 the population of the U.S.? Probably many reasons, including costs. But it's probably also due in part to having more rinks and access, as well as a culture that's generally more appreciative of ice sports (hockey, figure skating, curling).

This chart shows that Canada has about double the number of indoor ice hockey rinks as the U.S.: https://www.statista.com/statistics/282353/countries-by-number-of-ice-hockey-rinks/. Most likely, many of these rinks are multi-purpose and include some figure skating as well.

Many things will help the problem. But I don't think more rinks is the top of the priority.

Better coaching at every level is. If you can create more girls who can compete proper lutzes and no underrotations, then you don't have to worry about 3 spots every world, at least. But you don't need more ice rinks for that, just better coaching. Say you have 500 more ice rinks next year, and the coaching stays the same, the training cost remains prohibitive, and elite coach who can teach jumping is few, and students don't have role models more successful than Bradie. Nothing will change.

When a problem is multi-pronged, I think we should start with something less expensive than 500 more rinks and something with more tangible results. Like tweaking the judging system incentivizing risk taking, better callers harping on underrotations, etc. Then let's talk better coaching at every level, then dream big from there.

And I'll add, despite not having a gazillion rinks, US manages to have a successful ice dancing program, even though the program is concentrated in several cities. Coaching makes a bigger impact there than sheer numbers.

 

[WildRose]

In Edmonton I grew up with 5 outdoor rinks within easy walking distance, plus the small one in our back yard that I learned to skate on. Nowadays the outdoor rinks aren’t as well kept, and they don’t get used as much because organized sports only use indoor ice, but there is still lots of outdoor ice to fool around on because Edmonton has a cold climate and long winters. And while it seems there can never be enough, there are lots of indoor rinks that run year round for hockey & figure skating. Curling has their own facilities. Whether it’s hockey, or skating or curling, watching or playing, hanging out at the rink is kind of what we do. I suspect in that we have a lot in common with Russia

 

[jlai]

I don't see US emulating Canada in having ice rinks. Not having the infrastructure and climate, for one.
Back when the international Math and science comparisons came out, people were wondering why US lagged behind students in some other countries in Math and science. But then the things that made other countries successful in Math are cultural and structural things that you can't just copy and start doing back in the US. Because there is a reason US has the current education system it has (like the way Math is taught here). The factors and culture behind every system is hard to change. It's never one factor.

 

[ZilphaK]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I do have all the answers.

1. More group classes through higher levels. Jumps, spins, even moves. Keep skating as affordable as possible for as long as possible so that athletically talented kids stick around long enough to become passionate about the sport.

2. Take on a team approach to competitions, much as with gymnastics. Clubs/rinks would participate as teams at competitions (you could have an A team and a B team, etc. with try outs...whatever) and skaters would earn points for their team as well as individually. What teams do is open up fundraising opportunities that aren't available to individuals. Regionals+ could still be team or individual events. Yes, skaters and coaches would jump rinks/clubs for better teams, but hello, that's most sports.

3. More parent education from USFSA. What it takes to be an elite skater as far as time and money and coaching. Prevent more people than necessary from mortgaing their homes. Provide parents with a timeline for what skills should be reasonably expected by what age as an indicator that your kids is truly on the elite track and their training is possibly worthwhile putting more time/money/craziness into.

4. Coach ratings that mean something. Credential coaches to teach double axel or triples and beyond. As the demands of the sport increase and drop into lower levels, kids and parents need to know that their coaches know how to teach good jump technique safely and ethically. No more "just throw yourself in the air 1,000 times and see if you can't land that triple toe some day before your skull gets crushed"...which I think might happen more often than people realize. Yes, not every rink will have a Master Level jump coach...that's life. But, with training requirements for coaches, more rinks are more likely to have at least one coach willing to get the extra training to really teach jump technique correctly. So win-win-maybe.

That's all for now. I have more ideas. I'm full of ideas. And coffee.

 

[brennele]

The US will never effectively compete with countries that have State sponsored programs. The fact that we have as much success as we do is truly amazing. It is largely because we are a wealthy country and the cream rises to the top. Now one interesting comparison is ballet. Here we have a phenomenon wherein people send their young children to ballet lessons pretty much like young kids go to skating lessons without the intent of these children becoming Olympic athletes. Now if you are a ballet person and you become interested in getting serious about ballet AND you have talent, you can go to say the NY Ballet company and audition. If they think you have talent, they take you in and they continue with your training. I don't believe at that point, your family is paying for your training so the people with potential elite status are taken in by the major ballet companies and trained further until a few get to the very top of the field.

It is not that way with skating, the parents foot the bill the entire way and if you make it to the very top, then you can join corporations like the major ice shows which travel around. The ice shows do not have to take young people in and train them because they have plenty of top notch athletes who paid for their own training - or else their country did - and now they are willing to join the show as finished products. So long as people are willing to play the game as it is now structured - and they are (replete with stars in their eyes) nothing will change. No corporation i.e. the ice shows will spend money unless it is forced to. The ballet companies have no choice but to do so. So long as people continue to shell out as they are doing - huge bucks to train their kids - nothing will ever change.

I read once where someone was lamenting that Bruce Springstein was charging $300 a head (that is $600 a couple) to perform in some run down Atlantic City venue where he was raking it in big time singing 40 year old songs. He was pulling in some $80,000 per performance and having multiple performances. The person writing the article was saying how much better use for that money would be to develop new talent and improve the run-down venues. Well, I agree it is a huge waste of money BUT I don't blame Springstein one bit. If people are stupid enough to shell out $600 to go to some run-down dive in Atlantic City to hear him perform music he wrote 40 years ago, it is their fault not his that money is "being wasted." There is nothing so stupid that someone, somewhere will not do it.

What does any of this have to do with skating. If people are willing to work two and three jobs - both parents, that is - refinance their house, compromise their other children - in short do all manner of unwise things - so as to pay for training in the astronomically thin chance their child will become an Olympic gold medalist, so be it. These folks are pissing money down the toilet but there is no law in this country against being stupid. So long as people - both parents and children, each with stars in their eyes - are willing to do it, nothing will change. You can't legislate common sense and you can't build enough rinks to counteract such dynamics. Meanwhile we all will flip on the TV every 4 years and tune in to Olympic FS wherein we will oooh and aah at the amazing feats these skaters perform. It is absolutely breath-taking. These folks are marvels of humanity and athletic skill and we will all (transiently) gush over them. After 10 days or so, I shut off the TV, go back to my work and life such that in four years I likely won't even remember their names. Now, four years later, the next group of hopefuls will appear and I will ooh and aah at them, just like I did over the skaters four years ago. "Isn't he outstanding!" "Didn't she just take your breath away!" "Aren't they the best pairs skaters you have ever seen!" etc. This whole process is called insanity and the people who put up their homes, work three jobs, ignore the rest of their children and devote every waking moment to skating have only themselves to blame. We can't help them make a (very) broken system better. Only their own common sense can do so.

 

[brennele]

Jozet, I loved your commentary but it will never happen because the various people you mentioned are all making money off of the unrealistic expectations of parents - and skaters. It is like saying you want the con-artists of the world to educate their victims so that they will be less susceptible to the various schemes which will be visited upon people - not going to happen. The persons you mentioned have a vested interest in keeping people in the dark because they are raking in big bucks on false hopes and dreams of the very people you want them to protect. Coaches, rinks, etc. need to make a living and if they told it like it really is, their customer base would plummet. How do you put a measure of common sense into people. Basically, you can't. Either they have it or they don't. The kids? Well, what do they know. They are but children. They see xyz ice princess on TV skating away and they want to emulate that person. On some level it boils down to what values you instill in the children but even there, the reality is that there is but so much you can do.

Skating has become show biz and big time show biz. Some kids are going to buy movie magazines and pour over them while other kids are going to go to the library and read more substantive materials. If your kid thinks that movie magazines and Miley Cyrus posing naked on a wrecking ball are the end all and be all, what are you going to do? You lost the lottery on having a kid with any measure of brains. The best you can do is not give into follies which children hatch and which have minimal to no chance of coming to fruition. Becuse they are children, their brains are not fully developed. Sure, educating the parents is the way to go but the people who have the knowledge they need have a vested interest in keeping the parents in the dark. Worse, I am not sure you even can educate someone who does not perceive the folly of re-mortgaging their house and working multiple jobs as well as compromising their other children so that one child might become an Olympic Gold medal skater. With that magnitude of flawed thinking, is educating such a parent even possible?

 

[overedge]

This is how many Canadian clubs operate. It has its pro and cons. If your child is “special” you get great bang for your buck. Lots of attention etc. If your child is not seen as having lots of potential, you end up subsidizing other skaters while your child is ignored. I speak as someone who has been on both side of that situation.

I agree. This form of training might also be more effective, but it also excludes skaters whose parents can't afford to pay for the extra sessions, or who can't get their skater to the rink that many more times. IMO every club needs to have an option for skaters who might only be able to skate once or twice a week. No, those skaters are likely not going to go to the Olympics or whatever, but they still generate revenue for the club/coaches, and they still love the sport (which can make them more rewarding to work with than overtrained, stressed competitive skaters).

Why has Canada been as, or more, successful than the U.S. in skating over the last 30 years or so, despite having a noncentralized system and less than 1/8 the population of the U.S.? Probably many reasons, including costs. But it's probably also due in part to having more rinks and access, as well as a culture that's generally more appreciative of ice sports (hockey, figure skating, curling).

This chart shows that Canada has about double the number of indoor ice hockey rinks as the U.S.: https://www.statista.com/statistics/282353/countries-by-number-of-ice-hockey-rinks/. Most likely, many of these rinks are multi-purpose and include some figure skating as well.

And there are many more rinks in Canada than in the US that are owned/operated by municipalities, cities, or regional governments - which are cheaper to use than rinks run by private operators whose main goal is $$$$.

 

[ZilphaK]

Jozet, I loved your commentary but it will never happen because the various people you mentioned are all making money off of the unrealistic expectations of parents - and skaters

Not all of them are making money. And if they are, not for much longer. Rinks in our area -- and there are seven within a 30-minute drive --are struggling. Not only from figure skating numbers not being what they used to be, but hockey as well. And hockey pays the bills for rinks, not figure skating. Any coach who wants to keep their bread and butter at any fair-to-middling rink will need to rethink how things are done an present a plan to the rink, not just the parents and kids. Those stones are being squeezed dry, at least around here.

 

[brennele]

Jozet, perhaps what you just describe is not such a bad thing meaning that the folks involved are going to have to rethink this whole thing. Use to be that figure skating was once a fun thing which people could do for recreation and enjoyment. Was a day when you could even ice skate in ponds and lakes which had frozen solid - simply for the fun of it. Now it is a big money-making venture and if they have bled themselves dry, they have no one but themselves to blame. Seems that things have gotten way carried away and gone overboard. To coin an old adage, people have lost sight of the forest for the trees.

 

[ZilphaK]

The problem with a "system" is that not everyone who skates wants an intensive training program. And skaters often have other activities they are involved in so they don't come to the rink each day. There are clubs in my area who have organized weekly power classes and such, buying an hour of ice that is not part of the regular FS/lesson sched, but the club takes on a risk that enough skaters will enroll to offset the cost of the ice and the instructor's fee. (And then there are also political issues with regard to choosing/promoting one coach over the others to teach. And even if you try to come up with a rotating instructor sched, clubs also face tax issues depending on how much they pay an instructor in total.)

My club considered trying to have an off-ice conditioning class at the rink preceding club ice one night. But there were some time conflicts and the board ultimately decided it was too much risk to take on...would enough students attend each week to cover the instructor cost.

Most skaters are in it for recreational purposes. They don't want to train multiple sessions a day, 5 or 6 days a week. Not everyone skates to do freestyle comps...some decide they prefer synchro or Theater on Ice. Those who want to train and compete full-out will start out with their local coaches and if they progress to the point where they need better coaching or more ice time than they can get at their home rink, they will find a training center that meets their needs. It's not realistic or cost-effective for every rink/club to organize as if all their members are training for the Olys.

What I see some rinks doing is establishing their own "skating schools" that have nothing to do with the clubs. They have a skating director who runs programs that profit the rink, much like gymnastics gyms and ballet schools. The only "club" might be a parent booster club for fundraising.

Here's an example of a skating school at Ashburn Ice House in DC. Is this going to get kids to the Olympics? Probably not on its own. But I think this is a pretty good start toward something that helps keep costs manageable (although, still more pricey than soccer or lacrosse). http://www.ashburnice.com/page/show/3637972-ashburn-cutting-edge-academy I'm curious to see how this model changes and improves over time. We have a rink in our area that is talking about trying something like this, as well.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

The problem with a "system" is that not everyone who skates wants an intensive training program. And skaters often have other activities they are involved in so they don't come to the rink each day. There are clubs in my area who have organized weekly power classes and such, buying an hour of ice that is not part of the regular FS/lesson sched, but the club takes on a risk that enough skaters will enroll to offset the cost of the ice and the instructor's fee. (And then there are also political issues with regard to choosing/promoting one coach over the others to teach. And even if you try to come up with a rotating instructor sched, clubs also face tax issues depending on how much they pay an instructor in total.)

My club considered trying to have an off-ice conditioning class at the rink preceding club ice one night. But there were some time conflicts and the board ultimately decided it was too much risk to take on...would enough students attend each week to cover the instructor cost.

Most skaters are in it for recreational purposes. They don't want to train multiple sessions a day, 5 or 6 days a week. Not everyone skates to do freestyle comps...some decide they prefer synchro or Theater on Ice. Those who want to train and compete full-out will start out with their local coaches and if they progress to the point where they need better coaching or more ice time than they can get at their home rink, they will find a training center that meets their needs. It's not realistic or cost-effective for every rink/club to organize as if all their members are training for the Olys.

Competitive stream = x hours/week
Recreational stream = y hours/week

I truly believe recreational skaters should have a well-rounded training program including off-ice, motor development and conditioning. The parents have to know that you won't get your double jumps and decent skating skills skating once a week.

Gymnastics anc some other sports have better organized training sessions for their recreational participants.