"Alternative" Skating Events

tylersf

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What if there were events where there were:
  • Jump Only Events - Skaters can win awards for: Best Single Jump, Best Double Jump Combo, or Best Triple Jump Combo
  • Choreography Sequence - Win awards for best straight line footwork sequence lasting no more than 30 seconds.
This could be an add-on to an existing skating competition, or you could create a one day competition which included the Jump Only Events, Choregraphy Only and maybe a Short Program. You could have awards for each as well as an All Around Score.

These could be held in the spring/summer time before the season starts and could maybe provide practice for skaters who want light competition in the off-season. Perhaps, one could create a short series (6?) of these one-day competitions which could be like an off-season mini Grand Prix.

What does everyone think?
 
There was a Top Jump competition in the early 2000s and then it transitioned into part of the Bofrost Cup (Germany Sparkassen/Nations Cup) in 2003 and 2004, which has been a Grand Prix event until China took over in 2003.

In the Top Jump, I’m fairly certain it was a quick jumping-only competition with little to no coverage. I believe I read the most details about it in BOI or IFS way back in those ancient times. When it moved to Bofrost, it took the place of the short program and then singles skaters and pairs would compete a normal free skate and somehow everything was scored with IJS in 2004, or COP as it was known in those very early stages. The first edition in 2003 was scored with some unique point system, with each round being a different jump element and skaters being eliminated if they couldn’t complete them. The free skate was 6.0 and in the end it was factored placements- 1/3 for the jumping comp and 2/3 for the free skate just like a normal 6.0 competition.
 
They can at least hold a few more side competitions after or during Worlds -

1. jumps competition (for pairs, include both throws and SBS jumps)
2. spins competition (for pairs, include both the pair spin and SBS spins)
3. footwork competition
4. pairs lifts competition

I like the top jump format - 1st round is a single triple, and then a higher tier triple, and then 3/2, 3/3, 3axel, quad etc. Now that there is GOE system, this becomes very scientific.

For spins, would love to see a solo spin, a change foot solo spin, a solo spin with flying entrance, a change foot combo spin, a change foot combo spin with flying entrance, a combo spin with 2 changes of foot... Imagine calling Alyssa Czisny the 2011 World Champion in spins.

The footwork competition should have music involved and each piece should be limited to say, 20 seconds. I hate the Leonova situation.
 
Having each skater do one jump, then each skater do another jump element, etc., with eliminations along the way, may be more exciting for viewers in some ways, but it would also include a lot of down time when viewers could get bored and would increase the costs for ice time.

Top Jump-style eliminations could include the risk of one of the best jumpers getting eliminated early if they just happened to make a mistake in an earlier round.

Another approach would be to have say 4 general types of jump elements and give each skater a block of time, 2 or 3 minutes, in which to accomplish those elements. Maybe they would be allowed a second try at each. No music, no PCS. GOEs would count, so it would be worth setting up a jump with a difficult or creative entry if the skater thinks that will increase rather than decrease the overall quality of a specific jump element, but there would be no scoring for what happens between the exit of one jump and the setup for another. So skaters would be free to stop skating and catch their breath, drink water, flirt with the audience, etc., between attempts.

For spins, giving 2-3 minutes to execute 3 or 4 different types of spins would work similarly. Entries and exits count, extra moves to get from one spin location to the next do not.

If there are general requirements along the lines of "an axel-type jump" or "a two-jump combination" or "a flying spin in one position," then it would be possible to give separate awards for the best axel jump, best two-jump combination, and best flying spin in one position. Or awards could be given for the jump event as a whole and spin event as a whole. Or both.

For step sequences etc., I'd rather see a 2-minute program to music that does include PCS in the scoring. But there could be specific required elements that could each get a base value (some leveled and some "choreo"?) and separate awards could be given for each element type in addition to for the program as a whole.
Possible elements:
A leveled full-rink step sequence, perhaps with some restrictions as to shape and/or maximum time
A non-leveled straight-line step sequence with a time limit of 15 or 20 seconds to get from one end of the ice to the other
A single sustained glide on an curve in any position, or possibly a sequence of two connected curves
A sequence of three or more jumps with 0 to 1.5 revolutions each
A twizzle sequence
A sequence of "clusters" of difficult turns on each foot
A choreographic sequence containing any combination of skills above
 
Or if the qualifying round really does come back, why not just make competitions for a variety of the jumps and spins (or all elements) by taking the top 8-scoring athletes on the element from qualifying? Gymnastics does this for individual events. You could even give skaters two chances for each element and it’s not going to take long. And by having the qualifying round, you have much more data to review than if it were a short program.
 
By the way, using that above practice from the 2019 Worlds men’s free skate as an example, the skaters who would’ve qualified to a 4T (individual jump) final are:

Hanyu
Chen
Uno
Litvintsev
Kerry
Majorov
Lazukin
Bychenko

Not what you were expecting, right? It could be fun.
 
I still like the idea of skating around with a ribbon. Just think of the visual during a jump or a spin.

I suppose we'd have to think of a variety of props and the skater could pick one. Maybe a cane or a hat or a face mask or a health shield or............the imagination could run wild. And, the choreography would have to fit the prop along with the music.

Just think you could throw the prop in the air, do a jump, then catch it.........

I think we have something here. :):encore::hat1::respec::watch:
 
I remember reading about the top jump contest and it seemed most people found it boring. I guess if the top jumpers participated and tried quad axels or new quad combos, played with different variations, and maybe tried new jump entrances thus inventing new jumps for IJS, or allowed acrobatics and encouraged skaters to take things like deathdrops to the next level, or even had a different sort of rink with iced sides like a half pipe or ramps and stuff like those extreme inline skating events, then it’d be interesting to watch. Seeing skaters do the same triples in isolation may not be fun, but then fans seem excited when a skater posts something like that on Instagram. I guess it all depends on how it’s presented.
 
Let the xxxxxxxxxxx end, let things get back to normal, let ISU and IOC figure out what to do with existing formats, schedules, backlogs... and then we can think about new and additional venues..... First it would be nice to get the Synco events into Olympics..... :-)
 
I think seeing jumps in isolation can be exciting if the skater is doing something new, either that no one has ever done successfully in competition before, or even attempted, or that relatively few have done and this skater is joining the cutting edge.

As a competition for jumps alone, most jumps by most skaters will be just plain attempts, as high quality as the skater can achieve, but nothing more interesting than what they do in their programs -- if anything, less so.

So how to make it interesting?

The very best jumpers might attempt quads and quad combinations that have rarely been seen before. One advantage of having a competition phase for jumps in isolation would be that skaters don't have to worry about conserving their energy and stamina to get through a whole complicated program -- they just do the difficult jump, and then they rest before the next attempt.

But most skaters can't do lots of quads. Watching dozens of average seniors doing triple jumps in isolation would not be terribly exciting.

Would there be a way to encourage variety and creativity in jumping skills in a purely jump-oriented contest?

Inventing brand new jumps that no one has ever thought of before is not going to happen, especially not with multiple revolutions. There are only a limited number of edges to take off from (with or without toe assist for backward takeoffs), all have been attempted at least with half revolutions, and only the standard six takeoffs really lend themselves to multiple rotations.

And there are even fewer options which edges a skater can land on one foot and glide out on.

There are some known but rare/no-longer used skills that could become popular if rewards were built into the system. The potential of IJS is that if you give points for a skill, skaters will learn to perform it -- unless it proves physically impossible. The downside of IJS in terms of jump creativity is that if a skill is not listed in the scale of values and earns no points, few if any skaters are motivated to master it. And if the skill is defined in a way that would fill a jump slot but earn few points because it's difficult in other ways but can only be performed with low number of revolutions, or might be interpreted as a mistake, then the system actively discourages skaters from learning that skill.

So if there were to be a jumps-only competition, would we want to see that competition use rules that encourage takeoffs or in-air positions that can't be done as triples or in some cases even as doubles? Jump combinations with jumps other than toe loop or loop at the end? Rotations in both directions? Creative jump sequences that might permit a single step, edge change, or one-foot turn as the transition from one jump to the next?

Should there be room to reward creativity in air positions and in-air contortions (backflips and other acrobatic moves) that might require two-foot takeoffs and/or landings?

Or do we want the competition to remain focused on the same six multiple-revolution jumps we're used to, maybe with a few more quads?

In that case, the scope for creativity would be in the jump approach (into one of the six standard takeoffs), arm variations that don't impede and may assist quick rotation, and in what happens on the backward landing edge after (and assuming) it has been successfully established as a landing.

Within the current jump rules the quad axel is still to be sought, and there are still a few kinds of combinations that are possible and legal but have never or almost never been tried, e.g.,
triple flip or a quad toe or salchow at the end of a combination. But that's about it.

Is the goal to see many skaters trying to get as close as possible to textbook quality on the same relatively small repertoire of jumps?

Or is the goal to expand the vocabulary of jumping skills beyond just adding revolutions in the air?

Personally I favor the latter, but it would take a lot more rule changes to achieve it.
 
We were going to have a local spin spiral step jump competition before everything got cancelled due to the virus
 
in-air contortions
:lol: For pairs, too. Eta: Synchro should really get in on this for on ice contortions.

And for ice dancing, an OTT facial expressions and O-face competition. That might be brutally competitive. ? ;)
 
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Or if the qualifying round really does come back, why not just make competitions for a variety of the jumps and spins (or all elements) by taking the top 8-scoring athletes on the element from qualifying? Gymnastics does this for individual events. You could even give skaters two chances for each element and it’s not going to take long. And by having the qualifying round, you have much more data to review than if it were a short program.

I think it might be boring.
 
I'd like to see a competition where every skater in a category has to do the same footwork sequence. ISI does this in its 10 "freestyle" test and competition categories. From Freestyle 2 and up, the skater has to do a pre-set "dance step sequence" as part of their program. Let's just say that having everyone do the same sequence really shows who knows how to skate - e.g. good edges, timing, and control - and who is more interested in costumes and smiling at the judges :scream:
 
I'd like to see a competition where every skater in a category has to do the same footwork sequence. ISI does this in its 10 "freestyle" test and competition categories. From Freestyle 2 and up, the skater has to do a pre-set "dance step sequence" as part of their program. Let's just say that having everyone do the same sequence really shows who knows how to skate - e.g. good edges, timing, and control - and who is more interested in costumes and smiling at the judges :scream:
Exactly, and then really cut to the chase by having all competitors wear a basic black unitard as was suggested years ago, so that the focus is entirely on skating skills and not all the window dressing of sequins, baubles and bling.
 
Oh. I thought this was going to be about categories such as "Men Over Fifty in Leather", "Females with Piercings + Stuffed Animals Sewn Onto The Costume," and the like :cool:.

It would be cool to see some variety in skating events when they are actually allowed to take place. Why not combine different ideas so they don't have to financially stand alone on their own? Why not have a spinning contest followed by some sort of "art theater on ice" followed by a footwork contest, etc.?
 
Yes, I assume that different events would take place at the same location.

Not necessarily with the same competitors.
 
Oh. I thought this was going to be about categories such as "Men Over Fifty in Leather", "Females with Piercings + Stuffed Animals Sewn Onto The Costume," and the like :cool:.
You may get your wish if they decide to raise the age limit. :D There's still hope for the silver fox. :smokin:
 
Oh. I thought this was going to be about categories such as "Men Over Fifty in Leather", "Females with Piercings + Stuffed Animals Sewn Onto The Costume," and the like :cool:.

It would be cool to see some variety in skating events when they are actually allowed to take place. Why not combine different ideas so they don't have to financially stand alone on their own? Why not have a spinning contest followed by some sort of "art theater on ice" followed by a footwork contest, etc.?

The "artistic skating" events at some internationals in the late 80s were often a lot more interesting than the regular competition events.
 
The "artistic skating" events at some internationals in the late 80s were often a lot more interesting than the regular competition events.

Which artistic events of the late '80s are you referring to? I know of World Pros and other pro events. Are you referring to those? Something else?
 
Skate Canada used to have a segment of their competition that was just an interpretive performance. Butyrskaya won it IIRC the same year she won the ladies’ title (1992) and a young Frank Carroll skater named Joanna Ng won it in 1990 or so, at 12 years old.
 
Which artistic events of the late '80s are you referring to? I know of World Pros and other pro events. Are you referring to those? Something else?

When I said 'events' I meant categories at competitions - sorry if I wasn't clear. Skate Canada (the competition, not the federation) had an "artistic skating" event for at least two years. I'm not sure if other international events like it did as well.
 
We don't need a jump competition,as modern figure skating already achieves that objective.

However,a separate school figures competition is necessary and important.

-BB


I agree.

And ladies MUST compete a spiral sequence competition, and then also a layback competition.

Jumps....they can take to Ringling Bros. on the road.

I'd also like to help enlist and create the Angela Nikodinov Cup to take place here in my backyard!

tee-hee
 
I love this!! I think something like this could be a wonderful thing to showcase, especially with events being difficult to plan and coordinate. I'd love to see side-by-side comparisons (maybe on IG) so we can vote for our favorites. Let the people be the judges!
 
You may get your wish if they decide to raise the age limit. :D There's still hope for the silver fox. :smokin:
Is there an upper age limit? It can’t be??? We have one in Adult in Norway, it’s 79?
Or were you thinking of the lower age limit? I assumed the upper, as it was “men over fifty wearing leather” being discussed :D
 
I'd quite like to see something like an 'X games of Figure Skating'.

Skater has 2/2.5 minutes to do as many jumps as they can, subject to some sort of repetition rules, but to give it a bit of a framework they also have to do a couple of crowd-pleasing spins e.g. vertical scratch spins, plus a certain number of crowd-pleasing moves in the field such as spreadagles, spirals and hydroblades, maybe 3 or 4 out of selection of 6 (you could also include jumps like you never see these days such as delayed Single Axels, or ones that are not in the Scale of Values, or even something like doing the most spectacular double Lutz a skater can).

However avoid things like long drawn out step sequences, or IJS spins where the skater contorts themselves into all sorts of positions while they build up the levels - just keep it simple and with all the things that get the crowd going. Lastly I'd also say compulsory music with lyrics (and last one not skating to hard rock music is a cissy...).
 
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