Adelina Sotnikova uber thread

[Vash01]

I think Yuna did care - anyone competitive enough to win an OGM probably cares a lot about winning every time. But it wasn't quite the same kind of intensity for her - as she put it, she "would have died for the Olympics" before she won in Vancouver, and didn't quite feel that way this time. I'm one that found her free skate just a little flat, but look, it's actually not easy to have a super high level of performance every time out of the gate. I'm sure she gave it her best under the circumstances considering she's had an injury this year. Her skating wasn't quite as great as it was at Worlds 2013; I could see it both in the practices and in the competition (don't get me wrong, it's still fantastic - just not quite at her best). If she didn't already have an OGM, maybe she would have felt compelled to do a triple loop and a level 4 layback, but it's best for her back that she didn't do those things and I'm glad she didn't feel like she had to risk her longterm health for a second OGM. COP allows all skaters to strategize according to the rules known to everyone, and both Yuna and Adelina made calculated risks to maximize their chances. I think it normally would have worked out for Yuna, because typically no one could match the quality of her jumps, but Adelina actually did (with superior spins to boot), and came with a program built to maximize her score if she could execute it.

I went back and watched Europeans, and Adelina had some really nice jumps there that resulted in high GOE, but they were even higher in Sochi. It's also worth noting that she and Carolina were already scored very closely in PCS there. If Adelina had received the same PCS score in Sochi that she got in the Euros free skate (69.60), she STILL would have won the OGM. It's not so surprising that she got a few points higher in PCS than at Euros since the performance quality was *much* higher in Sochi. I'd argue a PCS of 69 wouldn't really be fair to Sotnikova considering what others in the final flight received and what she put on the ice that night. I just think people should take off their tinfoil hats (and Christine Brennan is leading the charge on that front) and find a way to be a little less emotional about this result. Two different judging panels had Sotnikova and Kostner close in PCS at two different recent competitions. Was the fix already in at Euros? For a skater whose own federation seemed to have forgotten about by the time the Olympics rolled around?

Anyway, since this is Adelina's cheer thread, here's a cute pic of Julia and Adelina with their gold medals

Well said. Thanks for that picture of Adelina & Julia with their OGMs.

 

[Vash01]

I'm not saying Yuna doesn't care about skating. I just don't think she cared where she placed. She admitted as much. I give her huge props because she basically pulled a Plushenko and medaled. She's an extraordinary talent but she didn't seem that invested in her performance. If she really wanted the gold medal, she would've pulled out all the stops. Yuna was stone faced during the first part of her performance. Adelina wanted that gold more than anything and put that into every bit if her performance. Kudos to all the medalists and all the skaters.

I think as a defending Olympic champion, Yuna cared where she placed. If she did not believe she could win the gold, I don't think she would have come back. She was also the reigning world champion, which made her the favorite for the gold. Under normal circumstances this would have worked for her. She skated well enough to win, but no one could have predicted that Adelina would have two fantastic performances, based on her history of making mistakes in the LP. I think all the Yuna wuzrobbed comments and articles conveniently ignore that Adelina had the skate of her life, in each phase of the competition. Yuna was a bit unlucky, I think. Any other year her performance would have been enough to win. I am sure the silver hurts; I don't believe for a moment that she did not care what color her medal was, or she would not have performed at that level. Kudos to Yuna and Adelina (and Carolina) for giving skating fans the best ladies competition ever, in an Olympics. It was even better than 1998.

 

[museksk8r]

This is my last post in this thread as I am not an Adelina fan at this point, but the fact those of you who are seem to be implying that it is only Yu Na fans who are upset about this result shows what incredibly stupid morons you must be.

Blah blah blah blah blah

Speaking of incredibly stupid morons, why are you as a non fan of Adelina posting in an uber thread dedicated to her?

 

[lauravvv]

It's not so surprising that she got a few points higher in PCS than at Euros since the performance quality was *much* higher in Sochi. I'd argue a PCS of 69 wouldn't really be fair to Sotnikova considering what others in the final flight received and what she put on the ice that night.

In my opinion, 5 points are more than "a few". And were 69 points in PCS (5 less than Adelina got) fair to Mao Asada, considering what she put on the ice that night (actually, the FS with the absolutely highest technical base value, and very well executed to boot)?

Two different judging panels had Sotnikova and Kostner close in PCS at two different recent competitions. Was the fix already in at Euros?

Yes, their PCS were close at Euros, but in Sochi they were more than just close - in the FS Adelina's PCS were higher than Carolina's (Carolina even got slightly lower for skating skills). And it's not like Carolina gave a subpar performance - it was one of the few greatest performance of her life too, if not the greatest.

 

[bek]

In my opinion, 5 points are more than "a few". And were 69 points in PCS (5 less than Adelina got) fair to Mao Asada, considering what she put on the ice that night (actually, the FS with the absolutely highest technical base value, and very well executed to boot)?

Yes, their PCS were close at Euros, but in Sochi they were more than just close - in the FS Adelina's PCS were higher than Carolina's (Carolina even got slightly lower for skating skills). And it's not like Carolina gave a subpar performance - it was one of the few greatest performance of her life too, if not the greatest.

Mao got lower PCS for not being in the final group. Its not fair though to single out Adelina.

 

[zippy]

Mao got lower PCS for not being in the final group. Its not fair though to single out Adelina.

This. She got the second group treatment, unfortunately.

In my opinion, 5 points are more than "a few".

What exactly did Gracie Gold do to warrant 6.44 extra points in PCS between the team event and her free skate with a fall in the women's event? 5 points isn't really unreasonable if you look at how everyone in the final flight was scored (and as noted above, I didn't consider Mao's PCS as a valid comparison because of her start order, although yes, she deserved more). I actually thought Gracie's skating was more "on" the other day even with the fall so a higher PCS is fair, and Adelina's skate was certainly more inspired than her Euros freeskate. People make too much in general of the exactness of these scores - there's always inflation in the final flight at the Olympics!

Yes, their PCS were close at Euros, but in Sochi they were more than just close - in the FS Adelina's PCS were higher than Carolina's (Carolina even got slightly lower for skating skills). And it's not like Carolina gave a subpar performance - it was one of the few greatest performance of her life too, if not the greatest.

Look, to me, all three girls gave gold medal performances. They were all great and I was thrilled for Carolina. But the program was a little emptier than she's done in the past, and while the skating skills were still beautiful, it was a little slower than her usual, at least until the final minute (which was fabulous). She might have gotten knocked down slightly in PCS for that, a little too much two-foot posing comparatively. I understand people don't like Adelina's packaging and choreography (not sure I get it myself at times, ha), but the program was COP-friendly with steps throughout. Even Yuna's was a little more cross-over filled. There's all kinds of arguments to be made here about who did what best, but I really don't see any real concrete reasons why the PCS was so outrageous according to the criteria, when taken in context with everyone else's scores. You can always find some weird scores on a protocol for any competition. It doesn't mean it was rigged. And even if it was 5 points lower she'd have still won the gold medal!

 

[MrLucky]

Look, to me, all three girls gave gold medal performances. They were all great and I was thrilled for Carolina. But the program was a little emptier than she's done in the past, and while the skating skills were still beautiful, it was a little slower than her usual, at least until the final minute (which was fabulous). She might have gotten knocked down slightly in PCS for that, a little too much two-foot posing comparatively. I understand people don't like Adelina's packaging and choreography (not sure I get it myself at times, ha), but the program was COP-friendly with steps throughout. Even Yuna's was a little more cross-over filled. There's all kinds of arguments to be made here about who did what best, but I really don't see any real concrete reasons why the PCS was so outrageous according to the criteria, when taken in context with everyone else's scores. You can always find some weird scores on a protocol for any competition. It doesn't mean it was rigged. And even if it was 5 points lower she'd have still won the gold medal!

If it seems unanimous that Adelina had the best LP of her senior career how in the name of anything fair would her scores not reflect it?

Is Adelina supposed the get the same marks for a mediocre skate as she would for a great skate?

Skating in the final group on home ice, Johnny said "Adelina created an Olympic moment."

I agree with zippy that all three Lady medalists were worthy of Gold.

 

[fenway2]

Johnny & Tara were in strong agreement right after the results were final. On Late night, last night, they seemed to push that too much, and I wonder if it was because there were some people saying Adelina should not have won? It came across as a bit artificial.

It sure did seem fake. Johnny said Adelina's short program scores were generous but by the end of the day he switched his stance. After Yuna skated her long program, he said Adelina might win because the event was in Russia but he told Bob Costas that it was not the case. Either he is a wishy washy announcer or someone at NBC told him to play nice. He kept changing his story A LOT. Someone should call him on his flip flopping.

 

[neptune]

This argument of Adelina's 7 triples to Yuna's 6 also falls flat on its face when you can't possibly explain how it scored a whopping 7-8 points higher in the freeskate to both Carolina with 7 and Mao with 8 triples - that of course is because of super-inflated GOE

Well, I think of that argument more in a "6.0 system" sense. IOW, 7 triples with harder combos should trump 6, regardless of what the actual TES should be for all the top women. I just think having no loop is a noticeable deficiency if you want the OGM. Besides, COP is goofed up in a lot of ways, such as in not giving major bonus points for difficult combos. Even if you can clearly reason out that Skater A should have 3 points higher in TES than Skater B, that doesn't mean that, in looking at the skating from a "gestalt" sense, you would necessarily feel that Skater A had superior technical content.

I agree with zippy that all three Lady medalists were worthy of Gold.

Well, maybe they'll all get to spend some time with Queen Gracie later on then.

 

[neptune]

He kept changing his story A LOT. Someone should call him on his flip flopping.

Or strap a lie detector to him. Or else bring Judge Judy on the scene--she'll sniff out any deception:

"Johnny, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!!!!!!"

 

[mrinalini]

Count me in as one of those who wasn't that impressed with Carolina's LP - I wouldn't have been pleased had she won the gold. Her SP was fantastic, but as for her LP...I think people are confusing a programme with no falls from Carolina (a rarity) as being a great one. I saw a programme with some tentative skating, no difficult combos, some bad landings, and one without the speed and energy we know Carolina can bring to her best performances. Carolina played it very safe, and it showed - that doesn't deserve the Olympic gold in my book.

So yeah, to reiterate what I and some others have said: Adelina deserved the gold. kuzytalent needs to suck it, and fast.

 

[neptune]

I think Yuna did care - anyone competitive enough to win an OGM probably cares a lot about winning every time. But it wasn't quite the same kind of intensity for her - as she put it, she "would have died for the Olympics" before she won in Vancouver, and didn't quite feel that way this time.

In other words, Yuna wasn't as hungry this time around. Who knows--maybe she just had too much pizza right before the FS or something.

 

[Ladida]

Since this is Adelina´s fan thread - cute Omega video of Bastian Baker and Adelina: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heLF7F1Ky30

 

[MrLucky]

American Ski Star Mikaela Shiffrin was inspired by Adelina.


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olymp...five-medals-in-2018-230929688.html?.tsrc=lgww


"I guess I should break a piece of that medal off and give it to the gold medalist in the figure skating competition because I watched her the night before my race and I saw that she was able to flow more than anybody else and she kept her skates moving," Shiffrin said.

"And I took that into my skiing and I just tried to keep my skis moving all the way down the course. I really appreciated the beauty of her routine."

 

[neptune]

American Ski Star Mikaela Shiffrin was inspired by Adelina.

So alleged Russian cheating may have helped the U.S. win a gold medal? How's that for irony?

 

[MrLucky]

So alleged Russian cheating may have helped the U.S. win a gold medal? How's that for irony?

Not even close.

Shiffrin liked Adelina's skating best. I also liked it and did find it inspiring seeing Adelina have the skate of her life when it mattered most.

But, whatever floats your boat is OK with me.

I like this cute pic:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ele...l-An-Olympics-Worthy-of-the-Name.html;600;340

Looks like Adelina and Elena are enjoying themselves

 

[neptune]

Not even close.

Shiffrin liked Adelina's skating best. I also liked it and did find it inspiring seeing Adelina have the skate of her life when it mattered most.

But, whatever floats your boat is OK with me.

Notice that I said "alleged," which means that nothing has been proved--only that there's a lot of hollering about it. Besides, even if there was cheating, no one knows if it actually influenced the outcome. Anyway, I don't think you'll hear too many Americans who are complaining that Yuna got robbed also complain about the inspiration Shiffrin received from Sotnikova's victory. I just get a kick out of the possible irony of it all, though.

Looks like Adelina and Elena are enjoying themselves

Yes, that is nice.

 

[Frau Muller]

So little seems to be known about Adelina's parents. I recently watched the recent Russian Nationals and, just before one of Adelina's skates (I forget which), the cameras focused on a couple in the stands - the woman looks Latin (caramel-colored skin) and the face is similar to Adelina's but older. So does Adelina have Spanish/Latin (Cuban?) blood? If so, that explains a lot of her passion & musicality while skating. It would also explain her Spanish name.

 

[DobrinFan]

Adelina's mom is sitting to her left. Is this the woman you saw? http://www.1tv.ru/videoarchive/73791

 

[MrLucky]

Adelina's mom is sitting to her left. Is this the woman you saw? http://www.1tv.ru/videoarchive/73791

Thanks for the clip.

 

[kuzytalent]

So alleged Russian cheating may have helped the U.S. win a gold medal? How's that for irony?

It helped the U.S win two in that case. D&W's gold was a trade off for all the Russian help in the skating. Did you not read the l'Equipe article very early into the Games.

 

[Skittl1321]

It helped the U.S win two in that case. D&W's gold was a trade off for all the Russian help in the skating. Did you not read the l'Equipe article very early into the Games.

L'Equipe article never suggested the Russians were trading for the ladies medal as well. Man, the power of the USFS must suck if they had to give away THREE medals now to get one that their skaters would have gotten anyway.

 

[Frau Muller]

Adelina's mom is sitting to her left. Is this the woman you saw? http://www.1tv.ru/videoarchive/73791

Thanks for this. No, the lady shown in the audience during Russian nationals during the warm-up group during the SPs was someone else. Definitely not Adelina's mom, who looks Russian to the core! Thanks for clarifying this.

This is a great Pust Gavoriat show! Especially the film of her skating as a little girl in 2002 (shown side-by-side with her Olympic freeskate, around the 6:00 mark). Adorable! It was also nice to see Volo/Trankov and Ilinykh/Kats on the show a bit later. And did I spot Zhiganshina and her brother Zhiganshin in the audience, directly behind the host?

 

[MrLucky]

L'Equipe article never suggested the Russians were trading for the ladies medal as well. Man, the power of the USFS must suck if they had to give away THREE medals now to get one that their skaters would have gotten anyway.

 

[Isabel_O'Reiily]

I think Yuna did care - anyone competitive enough to win an OGM probably cares a lot about winning every time. But it wasn't quite the same kind of intensity for her - as she put it, she "would have died for the Olympics" before she won in Vancouver, and didn't quite feel that way this time. I'm one that found her free skate just a little flat, but look, it's actually not easy to have a super high level of performance every time out of the gate. I'm sure she gave it her best under the circumstances considering she's had an injury this year. Her skating wasn't quite as great as it was at Worlds 2013; I could see it both in the practices and in the competition (don't get me wrong, it's still fantastic - just not quite at her best). If she didn't already have an OGM, maybe she would have felt compelled to do a triple loop and a level 4 layback, but it's best for her back that she didn't do those things and I'm glad she didn't feel like she had to risk her longterm health for a second OGM. COP allows all skaters to strategize according to the rules known to everyone, and both Yuna and Adelina made calculated risks to maximize their chances. I think it normally would have worked out for Yuna, because typically no one could match the quality of her jumps, but Adelina actually did (with superior spins to boot), and came with a program built to maximize her score if she could execute it.

I went back and watched Europeans, and Adelina had some really nice jumps there that resulted in high GOE, but they were even higher in Sochi. It's also worth noting that she and Carolina were already scored very closely in PCS there. If Adelina had received the same PCS score in Sochi that she got in the Euros free skate (69.60), she STILL would have won the OGM. It's not so surprising that she got a few points higher in PCS than at Euros since the performance quality was *much* higher in Sochi. I'd argue a PCS of 69 wouldn't really be fair to Sotnikova considering what others in the final flight received and what she put on the ice that night. I just think people should take off their tinfoil hats (and Christine Brennan is leading the charge on that front) and find a way to be a little less emotional about this result. Two different judging panels had Sotnikova and Kostner close in PCS at two different recent competitions. Was the fix already in at Euros? For a skater whose own federation seemed to have forgotten about by the time the Olympics rolled around?

Anyway, since this is Adelina's cheer thread, here's a cute pic of Julia and Adelina with their gold medals

The problem is not just that her PCS was higher than at Europeans, but that Europeans was already 9 points ahead of what she had been achieving in with unbiased judges. 60 all the way to 69 in a single competition was ridiculous. I was alright with increases for better performances but 67-68 should have been her PCS, with 69, possibly 70 being the highest possible for a absolutely incredible skate. The same with Yulia, her PCS at the max should have been about 67.5-68, and then 69 for a skate like the Euro LP, when Carolina and Yuna receive 73+.

The fact is Adelina's PCS went from 60.XX at the GPF, to 69 at Euros when Carolina had 71, to 74.5 at the Olympics, when neither Carolina or Yuna benefited from a similar jump. Yulia went from 61 to 63 to 60 to 68 to 70, also ridiculous. Personally, though I thought her PCS was slightly low to begin with, perhaps 62 at SC, 64 at COR, 61 at the GPF, and maybe 67 at Europeans. That means the max score she should have had was 67/68 at the Olympics. I do realize that skate vary at different competitions but Adelina should not be able to legitimately receive 60, then 69, and then 74.5. A more appropriate rise would have been 60, 66-67 for a much better skate at Euro's, and then 70 for the skate of her life at the Olympics.

For the SP, things are similar 30 at the GPF, should have resulted in 32 at Euros, and then a max of 34.5 in the FS. She went from 30 to 35.5 in the SP, and from 60 to 74.5 in the LP.These are unnatural numbers, same as Yulia's. I like Yulia's skating better, but am the first to admit that 70 PCS was criminal. In the same manner, the absolute max that Adelina should have garnered is 34.5/70.5. That would have put her 5 points back. If that was the only problem, then the Gold should have been hers, but there were inconsistencies in the levels as well. Europeans: SP~4,3,4 and 3 LP~4,3,3 and 1. Olympics SP~4,4,4, and 4 LP~4,4,4, and 4. Now it is possible to improve but solid level 4 across both programs is a little hard to swallow.

 

[Vash01]

The problem is not just that her PCS was higher than at Europeans, but that Europeans was already 9 points ahead of what she had been achieving in with unbiased judges. 60 all the way to 69 in a single competition was ridiculous. I was alright with increases for better performances but 67-68 should have been her PCS, with 69, possibly 70 being the highest possible for a absolutely incredible skate. The same with Yulia, her PCS at the max should have been about 67.5-68, and then 69 for a skate like the Euro LP, when Carolina and Yuna receive 73+.

The fact is Adelina's PCS went from 60.XX at the GPF, to 69 at Euros when Carolina had 71, to 74.5 at the Olympics, when neither Carolina or Yuna benefited from a similar jump. Yulia went from 61 to 63 to 60 to 68 to 70, also ridiculous. Personally, though I thought her PCS was slightly low to begin with, perhaps 62 at SC, 64 at COR, 61 at the GPF, and maybe 67 at Europeans. That means the max score she should have had was 67/68 at the Olympics. I do realize that skate vary at different competitions but Adelina should not be able to legitimately receive 60, then 69, and then 74.5. A more appropriate rise would have been 60, 66-67 for a much better skate at Euro's, and then 70 for the skate of her life at the Olympics.

For the SP, things are similar 30 at the GPF, should have resulted in 32 at Euros, and then a max of 34.5 in the FS. She went from 30 to 35.5 in the SP, and from 60 to 74.5 in the LP.These are unnatural numbers, same as Yulia's. I like Yulia's skating better, but am the first to admit that 70 PCS was criminal. In the same manner, the absolute max that Adelina should have garnered is 34.5/70.5. That would have put her 5 points back. If that was the only problem, then the Gold should have been hers, but there were inconsistencies in the levels as well. Europeans: SP~4,3,4 and 3 LP~4,3,3 and 1. Olympics SP~4,4,4, and 4 LP~4,4,4, and 4. Now it is possible to improve but solid level 4 across both programs is a little hard to swallow.

They are not the same competitions. Those are not the same performances. Performances vary from competition to competition. That is why marks are based on actual skating, not what someone thinks where they should be, based on the previous competition.

Of course they scored higher for Adelina. She had never skated that well, or anywhere close to it. All the number crunching you have done is meaningless.

 

[neptune]

So does Adelina have Spanish/Latin (Cuban?) blood? If so, that explains a lot of her passion & musicality while skating. It would also explain her Spanish name.

I have no idea, but she does look a bit Hispanic.

Did you not read the l'Equipe article very early into the Games.

No, and I didn't read the National Enquirer either. But I heard enough about the article to know all that I needed to.

 

[moviechicko_o]

Russia has many different ethnic groups. Not everyone is a blonde Caucasian.

 

[neptune]

That is why marks are based on actual skating, not what someone thinks where they should be, based on the previous competition.

Actually, I'm convinced that in general PCS marks have little to do with anything that happens on the ice. They seem to be determined mostly by:

1) what flight a skater is in (e.g., if you're in the final flight, you're probably going to get good PCS)
2) reputation
3) audience reaction

Otherwise, how can we explain the following? Here are Ten's and Hanyu's PCS from the FS's at 2013 Worlds and the 2014 Olympics:

2013 Worlds
Ten 87.16
Hanyu 80.00

2014 Olympics
Hanyu 90.98
Ten 82.14

So, let me get this straight--Ten had in spades all the things that a skater needs to do to get high PCS at 2013 Worlds, while Hanyu did not. However, in less than a year, Hanyu suddenly acquired all those magical skills, whereas for Ten they just went down the drain. Well, I saw the performances of both in Sochi, and this does not reflect the actual skating. Hanyu, while a very good skater, had a sloppy performance that was quite rough around the edges. OTOH, Ten delivered a smooth, dynamic, inspiring performance. In fact, I think Ten should've won the FS, and he probably would have if his PCS had reflected what he actually did on the ice.

So, if PCS rarely has much to do with what happens on the ice in general, why are we all of a sudden crying foul about the inflated PCS of Sotnikova??? I mean, it's not as if this is the first time that has ever happened. In general, I'd say that PCS is a joke. You can't just cry foul about PCS when it involves a result that you don't like, but then ignore all the nonsense when the result is pleasing to you.

 

[MrLucky]

Actually, I'm convinced that in general PCS marks have little to do with anything that happens on the ice. They seem to be determined mostly by:

1) what flight a skater is in (e.g., if you're in the final flight, you're probably going to get good PCS)
2) reputation
3) audience reaction

Otherwise, how can we explain the following? Here are Ten's and Hanyu's PCS from the FS's at 2013 Worlds and the 2014 Olympics:

2013 Worlds
Ten 87.16
Hanyu 80.00

2014 Olympics
Hanyu 90.98
Ten 82.14

So, let me get this straight--Ten had in spades all the things that a skater needs to do to get high PCS at 2013 Worlds, while Hanyu did not. However, in less than a year, Hanyu suddenly acquired all those magical skills, whereas for Ten they just went down the drain. Well, I saw the performances of both in Sochi, and this does not reflect the actual skating. Hanyu, while a very good skater, had a sloppy performance that was quite rough around the edges. OTOH, Ten delivered a smooth, dynamic, inspiring performance. In fact, I think Ten should've won the FS, and he probably would have if his PCS had reflected what he actually did on the ice.

So, if PCS rarely has much to do with what happens on the ice in general, why are we all of a sudden crying foul about the inflated PCS of Sotnikova??? I mean, it's not as if this is the first time that has ever happened. In general, I'd say that PCS is a joke. You can't just cry foul about PCS when it involves a result that you don't like, but then ignore all the nonsense when the result is pleasing to you.

Thanks, best post I read all day.