Adam Rippon on Quiet Starvation in Men’s Figure Skating

mag said:
This comment is dangerous. 117lbs of what? How much muscle? How much fat? How dense were her bones? She was an elite skater who’s weight probably didn’t vary much so she had it worked out. The problem is, no other skater is exactly Kerrigan so if, as people tend to like to do, another skater comes along who is about the same height, then all of a sudden 117lbs is the “magic” number. (There was a thread a while back where someone actually posted the supposed “magic” weight for a pairs girl.)

Think about it this way. Suppose someone tells you to make a cake. They give you a list of ingredients with no measurements and tell you as long as the total of all the ingredients fills exactly 3/4 of the pan, the cake will be perfect (oh, and you have the choice of 50 different pans, all different sizes and shapes.) Would you believe them? No, you could end up with a cake with a cup of salt and a teaspoon of sugar or any of a million other combinations. That is what is wrong with weight. Weight doesn’t give you any information about what is going on inside. It is all the bits and pieces that make up the weight measurement that are important. Different combinations can make for different weights or the same weight. Knowing the weight doesn’t help you know if you have the right combination anymore than filling a random cake pan 3/4 full tells you the cake will be good.
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Nancy was referring to her *own* "magic" number. No one said that everyone needs to weight 117.
 
Damn, Adam Rippon has become such a star in the U.S. for these games, even people at work and school have asked me about him. So with the competitive advantage, and now the media advantage. Has men’s skating now officially taken the crown as the face of figure skating from the Ladies in the U.S. ? (I hope so :shuffle: )
 
It disturbs me a LOT that so many judges have apparently told skaters to lose weight. Sure, esthetics are important in figure skating, but I would take a healthily muscled person over a skinny but weak person any day.

Someone asked about what education athletes get on nutrition. I know at USFS Champs Camp they do stuff on nutrition (perhaps they do similarly in other feds). Although if it's just once a year I don't see that being helpful.
 
LilJen said:
It disturbs me a LOT that so many judges have apparently told skaters to lose weight. Sure, esthetics are important in figure skating, but I would take a healthily muscled person over a skinny but weak person any day.

Someone asked about what education athletes get on nutrition. I know at USFS Champs Camp they do stuff on nutrition (perhaps they do similarly in other feds). Although if it's just once a year I don't see that being helpful.
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The comments are not personal. They are construction. It is all physics.
.Shoot I ride better when I am at a good weight. And my horse (the real athlete in our duo] performs best when he is at a good weight.
Theses skaters want to win. And for each there is an optimal healthy weight which balances health, strength and agility. Any one eating sugar sandwiches is just plain stupid. My 4 year old grandson can tell you what he need to eat to feel good at Karate and school.
 
AxelAnnie said:
The comments are not personal. They are construction. It is all physics.
.Shoot I ride better when I am at a good weight. And my horse (the real athlete in our duo] performs best when he is at a good weight.
Theses skaters want to win. And for each there is an optimal healthy weight which balances health, strength and agility. Any one eating sugar sandwiches is just plain stupid. My 4 year old grandson can tell you what he need to eat to feel good at Karate and school.
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Yes, but a GOOD weight is NOT the least weight. You can't necessarily tell from looking at someone if he/she has the right balance of fat vs muscle. That's why it disturbs me to know that judges will tell skaters they are "fat." Body composition matters a lot (as does someone's body type, of course, something that you can't necessarily control).
 
ChiquitaBanana said:
That is said, julianne Séguin is not back at her skating weight as she hasn't able to train fully until the end of the year as she still had concussion symptoms. When she is fully trained, she is a little lighter. She could do 3-3 combo in training back then in her junior days. She is more of a firecracker, she has explosive power. As Mag has said, there are many variables for a jump to happen. If you are not the skinnier, you have to be more explosive, like Manley, harding, Ito were.
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Did she need to be "at her skating weight," though? She seemed to do just fine yesterday, and her partner Charlie seemed just fine lifting her. I don't think anyone expects the pair to do 3/3 SBS jumps anyway.

And honestly, explosive power should be preferable to tiny, quickly-rotated jumps. That means you have better technique and less likelihood for hip/knee overtraining injuries. Big jumps should also mean +GOEs. Win/win, as far as I'm concerned.
 
LilJen said:
Yes, but a GOOD weight is NOT the least weight. You can't necessarily tell from looking at someone if he/she has the right balance of fat vs muscle. That's why it disturbs me to know that judges will tell skaters they are "fat." Body composition matters a lot (as does someone's body type, of course, something that you can't necessarily control).
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THIS. :respec:

I'm naturally very thin up top, but like Adam, I'm bottom-heavy, ever since puberty. I did manage to get a thigh gap again when I got the stomach flu and was slow in recovering from it. I wasn't able to eat a regular meal for about a year. Lost "that last 10 lbs" and I looked dead. I had no energy, I was miserable. It was awful. But man, was I skinny. :rolleyes:

So it really gets my goat when people assume that "thinner = better."
 
You are correct. Look at Mirai...she has lost a couple of lbs and landed an 8 triple program. I can see a judge seating to a skater who is having a problem with elements that the might want to take off a couple of pounds and see if that helps. Body weight is not a mystery ...calories in v. Calories burned. And along with goes strength, conditioning, flexibility etc.
 
AxelAnnie said:
You are correct. Look at Mirai...she has lost a couple of lbs and landed an 8 triple program. I can see a judge seating to a skater who is having a problem with elements that the might want to take off a couple of pounds and see if that helps. Body weight is not a mystery ...calories in v. Calories burned. And along with goes strength, conditioning, flexibility etc.
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You have no idea if Mirai has “lost a couple of lbs!!!” Once again, because you clearly are not reading for comprehension, you cannot tell how much someone weighs by how they look. Mirai may well have put on a couple of pounds of muscle so she is now able to get the speed and height she needs to land clean jumps.
 
LilJen said:
It disturbs me a LOT that so many judges have apparently told skaters to lose weight.
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I think that was more common 20-30 years ago than recently, as the knowledge base has changed.

Which isn't to say it never happens any more, but I wouldn't take what skaters like Boitano or Kerrigan remember from their own competitive days as representative of how judges communicate with skaters now.

20 years ago a local judge told me that when skaters asked her for advice she used to tell them to lose 5 pounds, but by the time I spoke with her in the late 90s she had stopped doing that.

Last year at one point I overheard some (non-international) judges expressing concern to each other that a young skater was too thin. Should they have said anything?
 
mag said:
You have no idea if Mirai has “lost a couple of lbs!!!” Once again, because you clearly are not reading for comprehension, you cannot tell how much someone weighs by how they look. Mirai may well have put on a couple of pounds of muscle so she is now able to get the speed and height she needs to land clean jumps.
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Aside: From what I have read online, which may or may not be true, Mirai weighs about two pounds more than I do (we are about the same height). But the difference between our bodies -- oh lawds. Fitness is everything. Anyone who looked at us side by side would conclude that she is unbelievably fit and trim and I am overweight and out of shape!
 
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mag said:
You have no idea if Mirai has “lost a couple of lbs!!!” Once again, because you clearly are not reading for comprehension, you cannot tell how much someone weighs by how they look. Mirai may well have put on a couple of pounds of muscle so she is now able to get the speed and height she needs to land clean jumps.
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This just reminded me that I can't even tell how much weight I've gained by weightlifting, looking at myself. :rofl: If you don't eat a ton (and thus don't bulk up), it's really hard to tell between 5-10 lbs of muscle, even on a skinny minny like myself.
 
mag said:
You have no idea if Mirai has “lost a couple of lbs!!!” Once again, because you clearly are not reading for comprehension, you cannot tell how much someone weighs by how they look. Mirai may well have put on a couple of pounds of muscle so she is now able to get the speed and height she needs to land clean jumps.
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Of course you cannot tell how much a person weighs by how they look. Now let's all read for comprehension. You CAN judge if a person looks heavier of slimmer than they did last month. Mirai looks slim and fit. Did you see Gracie last summer...not slim and fit. Javi looks pretty slim.

Do I know how much the weigh by looking? I hope nobody gets that super power.
Girls go through puberty they grow...and weigh more.

It is the physics they apply to the job with the tools they have (one of which is weight) that will determine their succes....well along with programs, music.etc.
 
AxelAnnie said:
You CAN judge if a person looks heavier of slimmer than they did last month. Mirai looks slim and fit. Did you see Gracie last summer...not slim and fit. Javi looks pretty slim.
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Except that is not what you said. You said she looked like she had “lost a couple of lbs.” If what you meant is “slim and fit” then that is what you should have said and that is a big part of the problem. Words do matter. Also, the opposite of slim is not heavier. One can be both heavier and slimmer and I would actually not be surprised if Mirai is a case of both. She has amazing muscles and has clearly worked her butt off to get them.
 
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Anita18 said:
Did she need to be "at her skating weight," though? She seemed to do just fine yesterday, and her partner Charlie seemed just fine lifting her. I don't think anyone expects the pair to do 3/3 SBS jumps anyway.

And honestly, explosive power should be preferable to tiny, quickly-rotated jumps. That means you have better technique and less likelihood for hip/knee overtraining injuries. Big jumps should also mean +GOEs. Win/win, as far as I'm concerned.
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Their triple twist is usually bigger though. She doesn't need to be a stick figure neither.

Explosive jumps are not always related to good technique but genetics and training of this genetics. Surya Bonaly had explosive jumps but not what I call a sound technique, so was Gabby Daleman before switching to Orset.
 
Misha Ge said on his Instagram recently that he has deliberately lost weight. He said his goal was to become ”thin and fit” for skating.

Tonight in the SP he looked thinner than I’ve ever seen him - scarily so, in my eyes. I don’t think his skating has improved as a result.

https://instagram.com/p/Bev2jNeB-pj/
 
Tavi said:
Misha Ge said on his Instagram recently that he has deliberately lost weight. He said his goal was to become ”thin and fit” for skating.

Tonight in the SP he looked thinner than I’ve ever seen him - scarily so, in my eyes. I don’t think his skating has improved as a result.

https://instagram.com/p/Bev2jNeB-pj/
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And Gracie liked his post. At least he mentioned "strong diet" and a new nutrition routine. Maybe he did it the right way. He skated very well tonight, esp considering how close he was to retiring last year.
 
Spun Silver said:
And Gracie liked his post. At least he mentioned "strong diet" and a new nutrition routine. Maybe he did it the right way. He skated very well tonight, esp considering how close he was to retiring last year.
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Hard to say if he was doing it healthily or not since he didn’t share details.

I was actually shocked by his appearance. To me he quite literally looks like the poster boy for “quiet starvation.”

As to his skating - he was clearly trying very hard to give a good performance. But a number of people in this thread are making the argument that thinner is better for skating, especially as to jumps, and I didn’t see any positive changes (power, height, distance, etc) in his jumps despite the weight loss.
 
Tavi said:
Hard to say if he was doing it healthily or not since he didn’t share details.

I was actually shocked by his appearance. To me he quite literally looks like the poster boy for “quiet starvation.”

As to his skating - he was clearly trying very hard to give a good performance. But a number of people in this thread are making the argument that thinner is better for skating, especially as to jumps, and I didn’t see any positive changes (power, height, distance, etc) in his jumps despite the weight loss.
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I don't think you look for improvement from a skater in the last "bonus"year of his career --Adam being a shining exception--you look for maintenance, and he's done that. But anyway, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you except to note that being thin and muscular per se is not bad if achieved the right way. He didn't look skeletal to me at all.
 
LilJen said:
It disturbs me a LOT that so many judges have apparently told skaters to lose weight. Sure, esthetics are important in figure skating, but I would take a healthily muscled person over a skinny but weak person any day.
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I'm very happy to see Adam speaking about this subject as men and eating disorders are even bigger taboo than women's eating disorders.

When I saw Adam skate in person earlier this season, I thought his skating looked much improved. I had seen him live a couple of years earlier and thought at that time his skating had a weakish look as if he didn't have enough power. Being thinner doesn't necessarily make you skate better.
 
Anita18 said:
Misha looks skinny, but he's also clearly sucking in his stomach in that shot. :p
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I didn’t really think much about this picture at first. It was seeing him in the SP.

@Spun Silver, according to his post, this was part of his preparing for the Olympics. So I have to think he was looking to make an improvement rather than seeking to maintain the status quoted. Anyway, JMO, I’m sure others will disagree!
 
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