2025 World Team Trophy - Day 1

[caseyedwards]

Awwwww ... maybe just for the end of this season. She's definitely going to want it back for the Olys.

It doesn’t seem she can keep it from fall to spring. It always goes away. So while it’s nice to have in Grand Prix it doesn’t last so maybe better not to do?

 

[Sally1214]

It doesn’t seem she can keep it from fall to spring. It always goes away. So while it’s nice to have in Grand Prix it doesn’t last so maybe better not to do?

Possibly, but you just know she's going to try to hang onto it for Olympics. One can always hope it works out for her.

 

[Coco]

Olympics are earlier in the season than Worlds.

 

[Sally1214]

Are the Japanese women wearing blonde wigs in honor of Kaori's blonde hair?

Riku looks kind of cute in hers.

 

[Jammers]

Awwwww ... maybe just for the end of this season. She's definitely going to want it back for the Olys.

Since this is a team competition maybe she should have just done a nice 2axel which would have put her top 3 no doubt but she gave away points that Jason had gained in the Men's SP.

 

[Jarrett]

Since this is a team competition maybe she should have just done a nice 2axel which would have put her top 3 no doubt but she gave away points that Jason had gained in the Men's SP.

How would she have been top 3? Did you look at the scores or even watch the competition? She doubled the triple in her combo too.

 

[Jammers]

How would she have been top 3? Did you look at the scores or even watch the competition? She doubled the triple in her combo too.

Exactly maybe she needs to scale back the 3axel in the SP if she was clean with just a two axel and her other jumps no way she doesn't beat Gubanova.

 

[skatingguy]

Sara-Maude DUPUIS
Coach: Stephane Yvars
Music: Never Go Back by Evanescence

3T+3T
2A
Layback Spin 3
3Lz
Flying Camel Spin 4
Step Sequence 3
Change Foot Combo Spin 4

The stream cut out just as Sara-Maude started her program - doesn't appear to have been recorded.

61.88 = 1st Place

Sarah-Maude Dupuis' short program.

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[skatingguy]

Lea SERNA
Coach: Michael Huth, Nicole Schott
Music: Tourner Dans le Vide by Indila

3T+2T
3S
Change Foot Combo Spin 4
2A
Flying Camel Spin 4
Step Sequence 4
Layback Spin 4

Missed all of Sarah Maude Dupuis, and most of Lea Serna because the feed cut out.

57.68 = 2nd Place

Lea Serna's short program.

- YouTube

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[skateboy]

Who these men are that aren't getting any chances continues to be beyond me. This isn't Skate Canada-- the US guys get chances.

I stand by my opinion that Maxim absolutely should have been the US silver medalist and sent to worlds in 2024.

 

[Jammers]

They did that in Torgashev, who has placed outside the top 20 at Worlds twice now. No other guys are really setting the standings on fire even though they are repeatedly sent to events throughout each and every season. Jimmy delivered in one competition this year, and he's not young. Broussard is the next big hope and he was injured.

Who these men are that aren't getting any chances continues to be beyond me. This isn't Skate Canada-- the US guys get chances.

And had they sent Torgashev and a man not named Brown, we probably were looking at 2 spots for the Olympics anyways without a chance at a 3rd so... what good does 'cracks' at Worlds do in that case?

US Men not named Ilia and Jason have been treading water for five six years now and have had every chance to get out there and make a name for themselves but other then Camden's 5th pace finish at Worlds in 2022 no one has had a string of competitions where it looked like they had turned a corner. Let's hope Broussard stays healthy and puts it all together or Jacob gets a quad and gets consistent or it will be Ilia, Jason and whoever wants that 3rd spot.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Egadze's music just made me miss Torgy

 

[Jarrett]

I stand by my opinion that Maxim absolutely should have been the US silver medalist and sent to worlds in 2024.

Nvm 2024 lol edit my bad

 

[MacMadame]

How would she have been top 3? Did you look at the scores or even watch the competition? She doubled the triple in her combo too.

Presumably, if she landed the 2A with ease, she would have been composed enough to get off the 3-3. Missing the 3A in the SP seems to throw her off enough that I'm not sure it's a good idea.

OTOH, might was well screw it up at WTT and get some mileage on it. I'm not her coach.

I stand by my opinion that Maxim absolutely should have been the US silver medalist and sent to worlds in 2024.

This is something I think some aren't getting. USFS seems to plan for the short term. We need 3 spots for next year! So they bribe a certain someone to stay in. They mark another one overly generously at Nationals or are harsher on another. Etc. That has to impact the rest of the field. It trickles down with less money available, fewer slots at comps, knowing that there are fewer slots open at Nationals than on paper, because you know two people will be on the team no matter what.

So when people say, "Well, who would you send instead? We have no one better," that is it exactly. We don't know what would have happened if USFS had focused more on future skaters, even if we lost a slot at Worlds for the first season after the Olympics with 3 years to get it back.

Anyway, this is probably a discussion for another thread. Maybe we should find it (or create it) and move the discussion over there.

 

[skateboy]

This is something I think some aren't getting. USFS seems to plan for the short term. We need 3 spots for next year! So they bribe a certain someone to stay in. They mark another one overly generously at Nationals or are harsher on another. Etc. That has to impact the rest of the field. It trickles down with less money available, fewer slots at comps, knowing that there are fewer slots open at Nationals than on paper, because you know two people will be on the team no matter what.

So when people say, "Well, who would you send instead? We have no one better," that is it exactly. We don't know what would have happened if USFS had focused more on future skaters, even if we lost a slot at Worlds for the first season after the Olympics with 3 years to get it back.

Exactly.

 

[tony]

This is something I think some aren't getting. USFS seems to plan for the short term. We need 3 spots for next year! So they bribe a certain someone to stay in. They mark another one overly generously at Nationals or are harsher on another. Etc. That has to impact the rest of the field. It trickles down with less money available, fewer slots at comps, knowing that there are fewer slots open at Nationals than on paper, because you know two people will be on the team no matter what.

But there's a body of work that they are going to follow anyways, and they aren't the only country that does it. Italy uses a ranking system, Japan has tossed some of their best skaters in favor of others who performed better in certain featured events or because they are very popular (Takahashi), etc.

So what are you getting at? Naumov in 2024? Someone like Ross Miner in 2018? It's not exactly if anyone besides Naumov even made a slight case to be there (except the BOW) in the last I don't know how many years, but this is something "I think people aren't getting", either. There aren't lists and lists of people being held down all year and missing out on assignments. In fact, some of them like Kapeikis keeps going downhill and still getting assignments. Even Paniot was still getting assignments here and there as his PCS became non-existent. Broussard would've had assignments had he not been injured. I really think there's some alternate reality where people think this is Canada and the skaters don't get assignments. But they do.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

This is something I think some aren't getting. USFS seems to plan for the short term. We need 3 spots for next year! So they bribe a certain someone to stay in. They mark another one overly generously at Nationals or are harsher on another. Etc. That has to impact the rest of the field. It trickles down with less money available, fewer slots at comps, knowing that there are fewer slots open at Nationals than on paper, because you know two people will be on the team no matter what.

So when people say, "Well, who would you send instead? We have no one better," that is it exactly. We don't know what would have happened if USFS had focused more on future skaters, even if we lost a slot at Worlds for the first season after the Olympics with 3 years to get it back.

Anyway, this is probably a discussion for another thread. Maybe we should find it (or create it) and move the discussion over there.

I have a feeling you’re talking about Jason? Lol.

I don’t get it, I like Jason, I’m not an Uber, but I lose no sleep that he was put on both of these teams, he was the one and only one to do it. No one else proves themselves on the world stage and don’t start with Camden and the one off where he placed I don’t know what fifth five years ago or something.

Everyone who’s name is not Ilia or Jason could score 85 points in a short program today and then 60 the next day, Jason proves himself at worlds, I mean he was fourth last year right? Or fifth? And seventh this year? Ain’t no one else on team USA gonna pull that off.

We can hope for Jacob or Lucas, but they need to be healthy and if they don’t have quads, they need artistry like Jason.

 

[Karen-W]

But there's a body of work that they are going to follow anyways, and they aren't the only country that does it. Italy uses a ranking system, Japan has tossed some of their best skaters in favor of others who performed better in certain featured events or because they are very popular (Takahashi), etc.

So what are you getting at? Naumov in 2024? Someone like Ross Miner in 2018? It's not exactly if anyone besides Naumov even made a slight case to be there (except the BOW) in the last I don't know how many years, but this is something "I think people aren't getting", either. There aren't lists and lists of people being held down all year and missing out on assignments. In fact, some of them like Kapeikis keeps going downhill and still getting assignments. Even Paniot was still getting assignments here and there as his PCS became non-existent. Broussard would've had assignments had he not been injured. I really think there's some alternate reality where people think this is Canada and the skaters don't get assignments. But they do.

I have a feeling you’re talking about Jason? Lol.

I don’t get it, I like Jason, I’m not an Uber, but I lose no sleep that he was put on both of these teams, he was the one and only one to do it. No one else proves themselves on the world stage and don’t start with Camden and the one off where he placed I don’t know what fifth five years ago or something.

Everyone who’s name is not Ilia or Jason could score 85 points in a short program today and then 60 the next day, Jason proves himself at worlds, I mean he was fourth last year right? Or fifth? And seventh this year? Ain’t no one else on team USA gonna pull that off.

I've moved my response to @MacMadame over to the US Men's thread, but, in general, I agree fully with what @tony is saying & I laid it out in my response over there.

Camden, Jimmy, Torgy, Maxim & Tomoki have each had NUMEROUS major ISU Championship assignments - comparable to what Jason had, really, at the same age (apart from the 2014 Winter Olympics spot in his 1st sr season - which he fully deserved & earned).

We can hope for Jacob or Lucas, but they need to be healthy and if they don’t have quads, they need artistry like Jason.

I think Lucas & Jacob both have the potential (Lucas moreso) to become a stronger PCS skater like Jason. They'll still need quads in the coming years, though, if they want to contend for medals at Worlds.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I think Lucas & Jacob both have the potential (Lucas moreso) to become a stronger PCS skater like Jason. They'll still need quads in the coming years, though, if they want to contend for medals at Worlds.

I don’t know I’ll go that far, while I am enjoying Jacob immensely he seems quite stiff in the shoulders and chest. I don’t think he will be able to get the fluidity of a Jason Brown.

 

[MacMadame]

I have a feeling you’re talking about Jason? Lol.

It's not just him but whenever I hear about USFS "bribing" skaters to stay in when they would naturally retire, it drives me crazy as I think that is unethical.

My beef is definitely with USFS and not an individual skater.

 

[Karen-W]

It's not just him but whenever I hear about USFS "bribing" skaters to stay in when they would naturally retire, it drives me crazy as I think that is unethical.

My beef is definitely with USFS and not an individual skater.

And that's a fair critique. I said this 2-3 years ago... If we can't keep our three spots without "bribing" Jason or Alexa/Brandon to stick around, then do we need the three spots? Either the rest of the skaters will step up & keep the three spots or they won't. And if they lose the third spot, they'll either earn it back or they won't. See how that's worked out for our pairs this Olympic cycle. We lost the third spot last year, but we gained it back (at least for Worlds) the following season.

 

[MacMadame]

And that's a fair critique. I said this 2-3 years ago... If we can't keep our three spots without "bribing" Jason or Alexa/Brandon to stick around, then do we need the three spots? Either the rest of the skaters will step up & keep the three spots or they won't. And if they lose the third spot, they'll either earn it back or they won't. See how that's worked out for our pairs this Olympic cycle. We lost the third spot last year, but we gained it back (at least for Worlds) the following season.

Finally. Someone understands me.

 

[MacMadame]

I made a new thread for today, btw.

 

[skateboy]

Finally. Someone understands me.

I'll chime in here. Some posters think I am anti-Jason. I'm not.

Jason is INSANELY talented, and one of the most likeable people in the skating world. The thing that bothered me is that he chose to stop competing for a top spot seven or eight years ago. Jason was performing quads up to that point -- toe and salchow -- he was standing up on them, had some rotation calls, but got at least one called clean in competition (salchow, I believe).

We all know that the top men's competitors need at least one quad, more if possible. I would've loved nothing more than to see Jason get a World or Olympic podium spot. But he has chosen to be a placeholder for the US men's team, and I think he could have been (and probably still could be) more than that. Sure, he placed 4th in the free this Worlds, and still ended up 8th overall.

I think that Nathan's multiple quads -- and now Ilia's -- factored into Jason's decision, and I do kind of get that. And they are athletic phenoms who built upon the dominance that Hanyu started. But the US does have other talent that can compete with the world's best. Okay, Andrew crumbled under pressure at Worlds. Doesn't mean that everyone else would have. Maxim has never been given a chance at Worlds, although I think he really deserved it in 2024. Jimmy placed third at 4CC's this year against a tough field, and appeared to be on a roll.

If Jason had a quad or two in his programs, do you think he could be on the podium? I do. And he will undoubtedly retire after 2026. Then what?

 

[tony]

We all know that the top men's competitors need at least one quad, more if possible. I would've loved nothing more than to see Jason get a World or Olympic podium spot. But he has chosen to be a placeholder for the US men's team, and I think he could have been (and probably still could be) more than that. Sure, he placed 4th in the free this Worlds, and still ended up 8th overall.

Yet his Worlds placements in this last Olympic cycle are now: 5, 5, 8 with a 4th place in either the SP or LP in each of those events. I wouldn't call him a placeholder as much as a potential medal contender if things go wrong for other top names. Kevin Aymoz has a 4T and he's in the same boat - if the big guns with quads start to make big mistakes, he could also find himself on the podium. Many other skaters only have one quad, maybe iffy at that, and they don't have anywhere near the PCS.. an important part of figure skating.. that Jason has-- nor the spins or footwork. If you aren't named Malinin, Kagiyama, Shaidorov, or Fa these days, you are going to have to rely on big quad mistakes or pops to catch up. That's the name of the game when TES and PCS are not balanced.

Okay, Andrew crumbled under pressure at Worlds. Doesn't mean that everyone else would have.

But who? Andrew is the one who certainly deserved the spot and he's failed to deliver, which can happen to anyone but has not happened with Brown, no matter how many threads I read every year about how he's going to do a 2A and 3+2 and struggle to qualify, or whatever else. Jason has never been outside the top 10 at Worlds, either.

Jimmy placed third at 4CC's this year against a tough field, and appeared to be on a roll.

Jimmy was not on a roll. He had one good event, and that's coming from someone who was very excited for his showing at 4CC. It would have been thrilling for him to get to skate at home, but it's not like he had any resume as of Nationals to suggest it.

 

[skateboy]

But who?

Maxim?

 

[tony]

Maxim?

Max had a very mediocre (or even bad) season leading up to Nationals. Why pass over Camden for someone else who had nothing else to show this season to that point?

FWIW, Max finished third of the three entrants to 2024 4CC, after finishing 4th at Nationals. The skaters who were 5th and 8th at Nationals that season placed ahead of him, and he ended up in 12th. He has historically done well at Nationals and then not had much else to show in his other opportunities.

 

[skateboy]

Max had a very mediocre (or even bad) season leading up to Nationals. Why pass over Camden for someone else who had nothing else to show this season to that point?

FWIW, Max finished third of the three entrants to 2024 4CC, after finishing 4th at Nationals. The skaters who were 5th and 8th at Nationals that season placed ahead of him, and he ended up in 12th. He has historically done well at Nationals and then not had much else to show in his other opportunities.

Of course, this year with Maxim all bets were off, for obvious reasons. I still think he was robbed of the silver medal at US Nats in 2024 and would have loved to see how he would have fared at Worlds.

 

[Karen-W]

Of course, this year with Maxim all bets were off, for obvious reasons. I still think he was robbed of the silver medal at US Nats in 2024 and would have loved to see how he would have fared at Worlds.

Just... Listen, 2025 Nats fit Max's pattern - good Nats, rest of the season - not so much. We'll never know how he would have fared at 2025 4CCs because of his parents untimely death, but I tend to lean toward "not well" because that's Max's pattern up to now. Would 2024 Worlds have been any different? Again, we'll never know, but there is nothing in his competitive history to suggest his hypothetical trip to Montreal for 2024 Worlds would have turned out any differently than his real trip to Shanghai for 2024 4CCs.

 

[MacMadame]

If you aren't named Malinin, Kagiyama, Shaidorov, or Fa these days, you are going to have to rely on big quad mistakes or pops to catch up. That's the name of the game when TES and PCS are not balanced.

I wouldn't put Kagiyama in that group because his skating is exquisite. He has the skating skills and the performance skills that go with the Quads while the others are still catching up in that area.