2025 ISU Championships - Minimum Combined Total Element Scores (CTES) and Multiple Entries

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Updating from a couple weeks ago... We have one more international this weekend before the Euros deadline for Men, Women & Ice Dancers to get the CTES mins; and in January we have three competitions where CTES mins can be earned before the 4CCs entry deadline (none in Pairs, though).

Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if Worlds was held in 28 days.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 38
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (1), AZE (1), CAN (4), CHN (3), CZE (2), ESP (1), EST (2), GBR (1), GEO (1), GER (2), HUN (1), ISR (2), KAZ (1), MEX (1), MON (1), POL (1), PRK (1), SVK (1), SWE (2), TPE (1), TUR (1), UKR (2)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - SUI (1)
2 entries - FRA (6), ITA (5), KOR (6), LAT (2)
3 entries - JPN (9), USA (13)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 32
1 entry - AUT (1), BUL (1), CAN (5), CHN (1), EST (1), FIN (2), FRA (2), GBR (1), GEO (1), ISR (2), ITA (4), KAZ (1), LAT (1), LTU (1), NOR (1), POL (1), ROU (1), SVK (2), TPE (1-currently not competing), UKR (1)
2 entries - BEL (2), SUI (2)
3 entries - JPN (10), KOR (8+1 suspended), USA (9+1 now competing pairs)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 23
1 entry - AUT (2), CHN (1 split), FIN (1), FRA (1), GBR (1), NED (1), POL (1), SUI (1), UKR (1), UZB (1)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), GEO (1), HUN (1)
2 entries - ITA (3), USA (6)
3 entries earned, only 2 qualified - GER (2), JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (4)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 33
1 entry - AUS (1), CHN (1 retired), ESP (2), GEO (1), GER (2), HUN (1), IRL (1), ISR (2+1 split), JPN (1), KOR (1), NED (1), POL (1+1 split), SUI (1), SVK (2), SWE (1), UKR (2)
2 entries - CZE (2), FIN (2), FRA (5), GBR (2), ITA (4), LTU (2)
3 entries - CAN (5+1 suspended), USA (11+1 suspended)


Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if Euros was held in 28 days.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 35
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (1+1 now competing pairs), AZE (1), BUL (1), CRO (1), ESP (3), FIN (3), GBR (2), GER (3), HUN (1), ISR (2), LTU (1), MON (1), SLO (1), SVK (2), SWE (4), TUR (2), UKR (4)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
2 entries - CZE (2), EST (3), FRA (9), LAT (2), POL (4),
SUI (2)
3 entries - ITA (7)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 34
1 entry - BUL (2), CZE (2), EST (4), GBR (2), GER (2), HUN (2), ISR (2), LAT (2), LTU (3), MDA (1), NED (1+1 retired), NOR (2), POL (2), SLO (1), SVK (2), SWE (2), UKR (3)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - GEO (1+1 retired)
2 entries - AUT (3), FIN (9), FRA (3), ITA (7), ROU (2)
3 entries - BEL (3), SUI (3+1 retired)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 19
1 entry - AUT (2), CZE (1), FIN (1), FRA (2+1 split), ISL (1), SWE (1), SUI (1), UKR (1)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - GBR (1), HUN (1), NED (1), POL (1)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
3 entries - GER (3), ITA (4)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 29
1 entry -
ARM (1), AZE (1), CYP (1), ESP (3), EST (1-split), GER (4), HUN (3), IRL (1), ISR (2+1 split), NED (2), POL (2+1 split), SUI (2), SVK (2), SWE (2), TUR (1), UKR (2)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
2 entries - CZE (2), FIN (2), GBR (2), ITA (6), LTU (2)
3 entries - FRA (6)


Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if 4CCs was held in 28 days.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 27
3 entries, only 1 qualified - HKG (1), MAS (1), MEX (1), PHI (1 switching to CAN), TPE (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - AUS (2), PRK (2)
3 entries - CAN (6), CHN (4), JPN (9), KAZ (3), KOR (6), USA (21)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 22
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), IND (1), PHI (1), RSA (1), TPE (1-currently not competing)
3 entries - CAN (8+1 now competing pairs), CHN (4), JPN (11), KAZ (4), KOR (9+1 suspended), USA (14+1 now competing pairs)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 12
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), CHN (2 split), PHI (1), PRK (1), UZB (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (4), USA (10+3 split/not competing)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 14
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), BRA (1), KAZ (1), KOR (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - CHN (2+1 retired), JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (8+1 suspended), USA (13+1 suspended+1 retired)


Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if Jr Worlds was held in 28 days (with the caveat that some of these #s represent skaters/teams who are competing senior only this fall but are still age-eligible for JWC).
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 43
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (1), BEL (1), BUL (1), CHN (5), CZE (2), FIN (2), GEO (1), GER (4), HKG (2), HUN (2), ISR (3), ITA (3), KAZ (3), LAT (2), LTU (1), NZL (1), POL (3), SLO (1), SUI (7), SWE (4), THA (1), TPE (1), TUR (4), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (10), EST (2), FRA (3), GBR (6), SVK (2), USA (12)
3 entries - JPN (8), KOR (5)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 46
1 entry - AUS (2), AUT (1), AZE (1), BUL (2), CHN (8),
CRO (1), CYP (3), CZE (5), GBR (1), GEO (1), GER (5), HKG (3), HUN (3), ISR (4), KAZ (4), KGZ (1), LAT (4), LTU (3), NED (2), NOR (1), POL (3), SLO (2), SVK (5), SWE (3), THA (1), TPE (2), UKR (3)
2 entries - CAN (10), EST (6), FIN (8), FRA (3), ITA (10+1 now competing pairs), KOR (15), SUI (8), USA (18)
3 entries - JPN (9)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 18
1 entry - CHN (2+1 split), GBR (1), GER (2), ISR (1), JPN (1), SVK (1 split)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - CZE (1), UKR (1+1 split)
2 entries - FRA (2), ITA (2)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
3 entries - CAN (5), USA (6)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 27
1 entry - ARM (1), AUT (1), BEL (1), CHN (5), CYP (1), CZE (2), ESP (2), GBR (1+1 split), JPN (2), POL (2), SUI (2), SVK (1),
SWE (1), TUR (1), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (7), FRA (8+2 split), GER (5), ITA (6)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - ISR (1)
3 entries - USA (8+1 split)
 
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Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Renee Tsai NZL has earned the CTES min for Jr Worlds at Edusport Trophy! Her SP TES rose 5 pts from it's previous high and pushes her CTES to 75.93 with the FS still to go!

Also attaining the CTES mins for Jr Worlds today - Weronika Ferlin POL and Khrystyna Halarieta UKR
 

zebobes

Well-Known Member
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652
Does anyone have any theories why 4CC has more men than women competitors? Is it the Yuzu affect, making figure skating more popular for men in Asia, perhaps? It seems like it is often only the men who have enough competitors that skaters need to fight to make the FS. I find that having something to fight for makes the lower level parts of the competition more exciting.
 

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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48,296
Does anyone have any theories why 4CC has more men than women competitors? Is it the Yuzu affect, making figure skating more popular for men in Asia, perhaps? It seems like it is often only the men who have enough competitors that skaters need to fight to make the FS. I find that having something to fight for makes the lower level parts of the competition more exciting.
I dunno... Why do Worlds and Euros have more men than women competitors? Or at least, more men who've earned the CTES mins? Maybe because either the CTES mins for the men are a smidge too low or the CTES mins for the women are a smidge too high, therefore we don't have the same # of competitors in both disciplines.
 

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Marler Davies/Black GBR and Hienne/Varescon FRA just earned the Jr Worlds CTES mins at Edusport Trophy! I fully expect at least two of the senior teams competing in a bit to get the Euros/4CCs CTES mins. ;)

ETA - well, probably only one - Stanley/Urano missed the Euros/4CCs CTES min by 2.02 points. I guess they'll be heading to Bulgaria for Sophia Trophy in early January for one last try.
 
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Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Okay, then! Final #s for skaters/teams qualified for Euros are in! EduSport Trophy was good for women & ice dance, not so much for the men.

January has a handful of competitions where either 4CCs or Jr Worlds CTES mins can be achieved.

Singles -
Sophia Trophy Jan 7-12 (4CCs & Jr Worlds)
Volvo Open Jan 16-19 (4CCs & Jr Worlds)
Bavarian Open Jan 20-26 (Jr Worlds)

Pairs -
Bavarian Open Jan 20-26 (Jr Worlds)

Ice Dance -
Sophia Trophy Jan 7-12 (4CCs & Jr Worlds)
Bavarian Open Jan 20-26 (Jr Worlds)

*FISU Winter World University Games figure skating events take place Jan 16-18 and those scores should count toward CTES mins, so there may be a handful ice dance or pairs teams competing there who are able to achieve the 4CCs CTES mins.

Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if Worlds was held in 28 days.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 38
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (1), AZE (1), CAN (4), CHN (3), CZE (2), ESP (1), EST (2), GBR (1), GEO (1), GER (2), HUN (1), ISR (2), KAZ (1), MEX (1), MON (1), POL (1), PRK (1), SVK (1), SWE (2), TPE (1), TUR (1), UKR (2)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - SUI (1)
2 entries - FRA (6), ITA (5), KOR (6), LAT (2)
3 entries - JPN (9), USA (13)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 32
1 entry - AUT (1), BUL (1), CAN (5), CHN (1), EST (1), FIN (2), FRA (2), GBR (1), GEO (1), ISR (2), ITA (4), KAZ (1), LAT (1), LTU (1), NOR (1), POL (1), ROU (1), SVK (2), TPE (1-currently not competing), UKR (1)
2 entries - BEL (2), SUI (2)
3 entries - JPN (10), KOR (8+1 suspended), USA (9+1 now competing pairs)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 23
1 entry - AUT (2), CHN (1 split), FIN (1), FRA (1), GBR (1), NED (1), POL (1), SUI (1), UKR (1), UZB (1)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), GEO (1), HUN (1)
2 entries - ITA (3), USA (6)
3 entries earned, only 2 qualified - GER (2), JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (4)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 34
1 entry - AUS (1), AZE (1), CHN (1 status unknown), ESP (2), GEO (1), GER (2), HUN (1), IRL (1), ISR (2+1 split), JPN (1), KOR (1), NED (1), POL (1+1 split), SUI (1), SVK (2), SWE (1), UKR (2)
2 entries - CZE (2), FIN (2), FRA (5), GBR (2), ITA (4), LTU (2)
3 entries - CAN (5+1 suspended), USA (11+1 suspended)


Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here are the MAXIMUM # of entries at Euros.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 35 - 6 warmup groups
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (1+1 now competing pairs), AZE (1), BUL (1), CRO (1), ESP (3), FIN (3), GBR (2), GER (3), HUN (1), ISR (2), LTU (1), MON (1), SLO (1), SVK (2), SWE (4), TUR (2), UKR (4)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
2 entries - CZE (2), EST (3), FRA (9), LAT (2), POL (4), SUI (2)
3 entries - ITA (7)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 35 - 6 warmup groups
1 entry - BUL (2), CZE (2), EST (4), GBR (2), GER (2), HUN (2), ISR (2), LAT (2), LTU (3), MDA (1), NED (1+1 retired), NOR (2), POL (2), SLO (1), SRB (1), SVK (2), SWE (2), UKR (3)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - GEO (1+1 retired)
2 entries - AUT (3), FIN (9), FRA (3), ITA (7), ROU (2)
3 entries - BEL (3), SUI (3+1 retired)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 18 - 5 warmup groups
1 entry - AUT (2), CZE (1 split), FIN (1), FRA (2+1 split), ISL (1), SWE (1), SUI (1), UKR (1)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - GBR (1), HUN (1), NED (1), POL (1)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
3 entries - GER (3), ITA (4)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 30 - 6 warmup groups
1 entry - ARM (1), AZE (2), CYP (1), ESP (3), EST (1-split), GER (4), HUN (3), IRL (1), ISR (2+1 split), NED (2), POL (2+1 split), ROU (1), SUI (2), SVK (2), SWE (2), TUR (1), UKR (2)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
2 entries - CZE (2), FIN (2), GBR (2), ITA (6), LTU (2)
3 entries - FRA (6)


Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if 4CCs was held in 28 days.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 26
3 entries, only 1 qualified - HKG (1), MAS (1), MEX (1), PHI (1 switching to CAN), TPE (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - AUS (2), PRK (2)
3 entries - CAN (6), CHN (4), JPN (9), KAZ (3), KOR (6), USA (21)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 22
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), IND (1), PHI (1), RSA (1), TPE (1-currently not competing)
3 entries - CAN (8+1 now competing pairs), CHN (4), JPN (11), KAZ (4), KOR (9+1 suspended), USA (14+1 now competing pairs)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 12
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), CHN (2 split), PHI (1), PRK (1), UZB (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (4), USA (10+3 split/not competing)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 14
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), BRA (1), KAZ (1), KOR (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - CHN (2+1 retired), JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (8+1 suspended), USA (13+1 suspended+1 retired)

Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if Jr Worlds was held in 28 days (with the caveat that some of these #s represent skaters/teams who are competing senior only this fall but are still age-eligible for JWC).
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 43
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (1), BEL (1), BUL (1), CHN (5), CZE (2), FIN (2), GEO (1), GER (4), HKG (2), HUN (2), ISR (3), ITA (3), KAZ (3), LAT (2), LTU (1), NZL (1), POL (3), SLO (1), SUI (7), SWE (4), THA (1), TPE (1), TUR (4), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (10), EST (2), FRA (3), GBR (6), SVK (2), USA (12)
3 entries - JPN (8), KOR (5)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 47
1 entry - AUS (2), AUT (1), AZE (1), BUL (2), CHN (8), CRO (1), CYP (3), CZE (5), GBR (1), GEO (1), GER (5), HKG (3), HUN (3), ISR (4), KAZ (4), KGZ (1), LAT (4), LTU (3), NED (2), NOR (1), NZL (1), POL (4), SLO (2), SVK (5), SWE (3), THA (1), TPE (2), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (10), EST (6), FIN (8), FRA (3), ITA (11+1 now competing pairs), KOR (15), SUI (8), USA (18)
3 entries - JPN (9)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 18
1 entry - CHN (2+1 split), GBR (1), GER (2), ISR (1), JPN (1), SVK (1 split)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - CZE (1), UKR (1+1 split)
2 entries - FRA (2), ITA (2)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
3 entries - CAN (5), USA (6)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 27
1 entry - ARM (1), AUT (1), BEL (1), CHN (5), CYP (1), CZE (2), ESP (2), GBR (2+1 split), JPN (2), POL (2), SUI (2), SVK (1), SWE (1), TUR (1), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (7), FRA (9+2 split), GER (5), ITA (6)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - ISR (1)
3 entries - USA (8+1 split)
 

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Since there's no Euros forum, for men it'll likely be 33 entries maximum because Rossi has not been competing. [ @Karen-W you have 35 entries, but should be 34 max]
There is a Euros Championships thread - https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2025-european-championships-info.112075/ - I've been posting entries as they're announced as well as the # of qualifiers.

Switzerland has 2 men with the CTES min for Euros (86.00) - Bodenstein earned it at NRW Trophy last month, so I expect both Noah & Lukas to be sent to Euros.
 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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farahfan

Active Member
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178
are the last competitions for pairs to earn World minimums (given they qualify for the competition):
  • Bavarian Trophy
  • FISU Winter World University Games
  • Euros
  • Asian Winter Games
  • Challenge Cup
  • 4CC
did I miss any?
 

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
Messages
48,296
are the last competitions for pairs to earn World minimums (given they qualify for the competition):
  • Bavarian Trophy
  • FISU Winter World University Games
  • Euros
  • Asian Winter Games
  • Challenge Cup
  • 4CC
did I miss any?
There is no Pairs competition at the FISU Winter World University Games.

Edge Cup in Poland also plans to include Pairs - there is only 1 sr pairs team (GamKor) and 2 jr pairs teams (Wood/Lapsky & Pflaum/Mager) entered though, so I could see GamKor withdrawing since they'll be competing at Bavarian Open the previous week.

 

Andrea82

Well-Known Member
Messages
961
From Sofia Trophy

Zlatkov (Bulgaria) and Peng (China) for Senior Worlds
Suleymanova (Azerbaijan) for Euros and Worlds
Cheung (Hong Kong) and Borromeo (Philippines) for 4 Continents.
Zapata (Spain) and Oellerer (Austria) for Junior Worlds
 

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
Messages
48,296
From Sofia Trophy
Zlatkov (Bulgaria) and Peng (China) for Senior Worlds
Suleymanova (Azerbaijan) for Euros and Worlds
Cheung (Hong Kong) and Borromeo (Philippines) for 4 Continents.
Zapata (Spain) and Oellerer (Austria) for Junior Worlds
I listed the Dance teams that achieved TES mins over in the Dance Hall thread. Working on updating the CTES mins lists, among other things. :cool:

Also, it's too late for Suleymanova to compete at Euros, but that's good news she has it for Worlds now.
 
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Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Here are the remaining competitions where CTES mins can be earned (I'm including any Sportity app passwords as I come across them). The only one of these competitions that doesn't have an event announcement up on the ISU site is Bellu Memorial.

Singles -
FISU World University Games (4CCs & Worlds) ITA
Volvo Open (4CCs, Jr Worlds & Worlds) LAT - volvo54
Bavarian Open (Jr Worlds & Worlds) GER - BO2025
Ephesus Cup (Jr Worlds & Worlds) TUR
European Championships (Worlds) EST
Skate Europa (Worlds) SRB
Skate Dortmund (Worlds) GER
Dragon Trophy (Worlds) SLO
Nordics Open (Worlds) NOR - nordics25
Union Figure Skating Trophy (Worlds) UAE - UNION2025
Asian Winter Games (Worlds) CHN
Tallink Hotels Cup (Worlds) EST - THC2025
Merano Ice Trophy (Worlds) ITA - meran2025
Challenge Cup (Worlds) NED - CC2025
Road to 26 Trophy (Worlds) ITA
Bellu Memorial (Worlds) ROU
Four Continents Championships (Worlds) KOR

Pairs -
Bavarian Open (Jr Worlds & Worlds) GER - BO2025
European Championships (Worlds) EST
Edge Cup (Worlds) POL
Asian Winter Games (Worlds) CHN
Merano Ice Trophy (Worlds) ITA - meran2025
Challenge Cup (Worlds) NED - CC2025
Road to 26 Trophy (Worlds) ITA
Four Continents Championships (Worlds) KOR

Ice Dance -
FISU World University Games (4CCs & Worlds) ITA
Bavarian Open (Jr Worlds & Worlds) GER - BO2025
Ephesus Cup (Jr Worlds & Worlds) TUR
European Championships (Worlds) EST
Skate Europa (Worlds) SRB
Skate Dortmund (Worlds) GER
Egna Dance Trophy (Worlds) ITA - egnadancetrophy2025
Asian Winter Games (Worlds) CHN
Challenge Cup (Worlds) NED - CC2025
Road to 26 Trophy (Worlds) ITA
Four Continents Championships (Worlds) KOR
 

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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48,296
Slowly, surely, skaters are achieving CTES mins & we're seeing the fields growing, lol.

Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if Worlds was held in 28 days.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 39
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (1), AZE (1), BUL (1), CAN (4), CHN (4), CZE (2), ESP (1), EST (2), GBR (1), GEO (1), GER (2), HUN (1), ISR (2), KAZ (1), MEX (1), MON (1), POL (1), PRK (1), SVK (1), SWE (2), TPE (1), TUR (1), UKR (2)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - SUI (1)
2 entries - FRA (6), ITA (5), KOR (6), LAT (2)
3 entries - JPN (9), USA (13)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 33
1 entry - AUT (1), AZE (1), BUL (1), CAN (5), CHN (1), EST (1), FIN (2), FRA (2), GBR (1), GEO (1), ISR (2), ITA (4), KAZ (1), LAT (1), LTU (1), NOR (1), POL (1), ROU (1), SVK (2), TPE (1-currently not competing), UKR (1)
2 entries - BEL (2), SUI (2)
3 entries - JPN (10), KOR (8+1 suspended), USA (9+1 now competing pairs)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 23
1 entry - AUT (2), CHN (1 split), FIN (1), FRA (1), GBR (1), NED (1), POL (1), SUI (1), UKR (1), UZB (1)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), GEO (1), HUN (1)
2 entries - ITA (3), USA (6)
3 entries earned, only 2 qualified - GER (2), JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (4)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 34
1 entry - AUS (1), AZE (2), CHN (1 status unknown), ESP (2), GEO (1), GER (2), HUN (1), IRL (1), ISR (2+1 split), JPN (1), KOR (1), NED (1), POL (1+1 split), SUI (1), SVK (2), SWE (1), UKR (2)
2 entries - CZE (2), FIN (2), FRA (5), GBR (2), ITA (4), LTU (2)
3 entries - CAN (5+1 suspended), USA (11+1 suspended)

Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if 4CCs was held in 28 days.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 28
3 entries, only 1 qualified - MAS (1), MEX (1), PHI (1+1 switching to CAN), TPE (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - AUS (2), HKG (2), PRK (2)
3 entries - CAN (6), CHN (4), JPN (9), KAZ (3), KOR (6), USA (21)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 22
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), IND (1), PHI (1), RSA (1), TPE (1-currently not competing)
3 entries - CAN (8+1 now competing pairs), CHN (4), JPN (11), KAZ (4), KOR (9+1 suspended), USA (14+1 now competing pairs)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 12
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), CHN (2 split), PHI (1), PRK (1), UZB (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (4), USA (10+3 split/not competing)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 15
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), BRA (1), KAZ (1), KOR (1), MEX (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - CHN (2+1 retired), JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (8+1 suspended), USA (13+1 suspended+1 retired)

Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if Jr Worlds was held in 28 days (with the caveat that some of these #s represent skaters/teams who are competing senior only this fall but are still age-eligible for JWC).
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 44
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (2), BEL (1), BUL (1), CHN (5), CZE (2), ESP (1), FIN (2), GEO (1), GER (4), HKG (2), HUN (2), ISR (3), ITA (3), KAZ (3), LAT (2), LTU (1), NZL (1), POL (3), SLO (1), SUI (7), SWE (4), THA (1), TPE (1), TUR (4), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (10), EST (2), FRA (3), GBR (6), SVK (2), USA (12)
3 entries - JPN (8), KOR (5)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 47
1 entry - AUS (2), AUT (1), AZE (1), BUL (2), CHN (8), CRO (1), CYP (3), CZE (5), GBR (1), GEO (1), GER (5), HKG (3), HUN (3), ISR (4), KAZ (4), KGZ (1), LAT (4), LTU (3), NED (2), NOR (1), NZL (2), POL (4), SLO (2), SVK (5), SWE (3), THA (1), TPE (2), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (10), EST (6), FIN (8), FRA (3), ITA (11+1 now competing pairs), KOR (15), SUI (8), USA (18)
3 entries - JPN (9)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 18
1 entry - CHN (2+1 split), GBR (1), GER (2), ISR (1), JPN (1), SVK (1 split)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - CZE (1), UKR (1+1 split)
2 entries - FRA (2), ITA (2)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
3 entries - CAN (5), USA (6)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 28
1 entry - ARM (1), AUT (1), BEL (1), CHN (5), CYP (1), CZE (2), ESP (2), EST (1), GBR (2+1 split), JPN (2), POL (2), SUI (2), SVK (1), SWE (1), TUR (1), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (7), FRA (9+2 split), GER (5), ITA (6)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - ISR (1)
3 entries - USA (8+1 split)
 

farahfan

Active Member
Messages
178
Slowly, surely, skaters are achieving CTES mins & we're seeing the fields growing, lol.

Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if Worlds was held in 28 days.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 39
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (1), AZE (1), BUL (1), CAN (4), CHN (4), CZE (2), ESP (1), EST (2), GBR (1), GEO (1), GER (2), HUN (1), ISR (2), KAZ (1), MEX (1), MON (1), POL (1), PRK (1), SVK (1), SWE (2), TPE (1), TUR (1), UKR (2)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - SUI (1)
2 entries - FRA (6), ITA (5), KOR (6), LAT (2)
3 entries - JPN (9), USA (13)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 33
1 entry - AUT (1), AZE (1), BUL (1), CAN (5), CHN (1), EST (1), FIN (2), FRA (2), GBR (1), GEO (1), ISR (2), ITA (4), KAZ (1), LAT (1), LTU (1), NOR (1), POL (1), ROU (1), SVK (2), TPE (1-currently not competing), UKR (1)
2 entries - BEL (2), SUI (2)
3 entries - JPN (10), KOR (8+1 suspended), USA (9+1 now competing pairs)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 23
1 entry - AUT (2), CHN (1 split), FIN (1), FRA (1), GBR (1), NED (1), POL (1), SUI (1), UKR (1), UZB (1)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), GEO (1), HUN (1)
2 entries - ITA (3), USA (6)
3 entries earned, only 2 qualified - GER (2), JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (4)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 34
1 entry - AUS (1), AZE (2), CHN (1 status unknown), ESP (2), GEO (1), GER (2), HUN (1), IRL (1), ISR (2+1 split), JPN (1), KOR (1), NED (1), POL (1+1 split), SUI (1), SVK (2), SWE (1), UKR (2)
2 entries - CZE (2), FIN (2), FRA (5), GBR (2), ITA (4), LTU (2)
3 entries - CAN (5+1 suspended), USA (11+1 suspended)

Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if 4CCs was held in 28 days.
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 28
3 entries, only 1 qualified - MAS (1), MEX (1), PHI (1+1 switching to CAN), TPE (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - AUS (2), HKG (2), PRK (2)
3 entries - CAN (6), CHN (4), JPN (9), KAZ (3), KOR (6), USA (21)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 22
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), IND (1), PHI (1), RSA (1), TPE (1-currently not competing)
3 entries - CAN (8+1 now competing pairs), CHN (4), JPN (11), KAZ (4), KOR (9+1 suspended), USA (14+1 now competing pairs)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 12
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), CHN (2 split), PHI (1), PRK (1), UZB (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (4), USA (10+3 split/not competing)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 15
3 entries, only 1 qualified - AUS (1), BRA (1), KAZ (1), KOR (1), MEX (1)
3 entries, only 2 qualified - CHN (2+1 retired), JPN (2)
3 entries - CAN (8+1 suspended), USA (13+1 suspended+1 retired)

Looking over the CTES lists for each discipline, here's a rough estimate of the # of entries we'd see if Jr Worlds was held in 28 days (with the caveat that some of these #s represent skaters/teams who are competing senior only this fall but are still age-eligible for JWC).
Men (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 44
1 entry - ARM (2), AUT (2), BEL (1), BUL (1), CHN (5), CZE (2), ESP (1), FIN (2), GEO (1), GER (4), HKG (2), HUN (2), ISR (3), ITA (3), KAZ (3), LAT (2), LTU (1), NZL (1), POL (3), SLO (1), SUI (7), SWE (4), THA (1), TPE (1), TUR (4), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (10), EST (2), FRA (3), GBR (6), SVK (2), USA (12)
3 entries - JPN (8), KOR (5)
Women (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 47
1 entry - AUS (2), AUT (1), AZE (1), BUL (2), CHN (8), CRO (1), CYP (3), CZE (5), GBR (1), GEO (1), GER (5), HKG (3), HUN (3), ISR (4), KAZ (4), KGZ (1), LAT (4), LTU (3), NED (2), NOR (1), NZL (2), POL (4), SLO (2), SVK (5), SWE (3), THA (1), TPE (2), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (10), EST (6), FIN (8), FRA (3), ITA (11+1 now competing pairs), KOR (15), SUI (8), USA (18)
3 entries - JPN (9)
Pairs (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 18
1 entry - CHN (2+1 split), GBR (1), GER (2), ISR (1), JPN (1), SVK (1 split)
2 entries earned, only 1 qualified - CZE (1), UKR (1+1 split)
2 entries - FRA (2), ITA (2)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - GEO (1)
3 entries - CAN (5), USA (6)
Ice Dance (# of athletes with CTES min already) - 28
1 entry - ARM (1), AUT (1), BEL (1), CHN (5), CYP (1), CZE (2), ESP (2), EST (1), GBR (2+1 split), JPN (2), POL (2), SUI (2), SVK (1), SWE (1), TUR (1), UKR (4)
2 entries - CAN (7), FRA (9+2 split), GER (5), ITA (6)
3 entries, only 1 qualified - ISR (1)
3 entries - USA (8+1 split)
So China currently doesn't have any pair that can go to Worlds?
 

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
Messages
48,296
Here are the remaining competitions where CTES mins can be earned (I'm including any Sportity app passwords as I come across them). The only one of these competitions that doesn't have an event announcement up on the ISU site is Bellu Memorial.

Singles -
Bavarian Open (Jr Worlds & Worlds) GER - BO2025
Ephesus Cup (4CCs, Jr Worlds & Worlds) TUR

Pairs -
Bavarian Open (4CCs, Jr Worlds & Worlds) GER - BO2025
Edge Cup (Worlds) POL

Ice Dance -
Bavarian Open (Jr Worlds & Worlds) GER - BO2025
Ephesus Cup (4CCs, Jr Worlds & Worlds) TUR
So, I was looking at the schedule for Ephesus Cup this week (results page here - https://onlinesonuclar.buzpateni.org.tr/Sezon/2025/ephcu2025/) and realized the Sr Men, Women & Ice Dance, as well as Jr Ice Dance will be competed before the Jr & Adv Novice Singles events). All of the Sr events will be completed by Wednesday, Jan 22nd, which is exactly 4 weeks before the start of 4CCs - so any skaters/teams achieving the 4CCs CTES mins here will be eligible to compete at 4CCs.

Sr Men - only 3 Turkish men, so no CTES chasers here.
Sr Women - UZB Sevinch Rakhimova is the only 4CCs entrant here chasing CTES mins.
Sr Dance - there is a new team from Indonesia - Tasya Putri/Dwiki Eka Ramadhan - who knows what their skill level is, but they're here trying for something.

Jr Men - I'm sure some of the Turkish men would like the CTES mins, but they & KAZ already have men with the mins, so no one earning them would affect the # of entrants.
Jr Women - RSA Maria Navarro Brito, UZB Sofiya Vidrina & 11 TUR women are trying to earn their country 1 entry at Jr Worlds & AZE has several women aiming for alternate status to Sabina Alieva, lol.
Jr Ice Dance - same situation as the men - the teams either have them or would be additional qualified teams for countries that already have enough teams qualified to fill their spots at Jr Worlds.

Bavarian Open -
Sr Pairs competition ends on Wednesday, Jan 22nd also, so Mauder/Wilkinson RSA are there making one last mad dash for the 4CCs CTES mins. And, of course, McIntosh/Zandron ESP & the Crafoords SWE are aiming for Worlds CTES mins.

Sr Women, Sr Men & Sr Ice Dance all end after the "entries by name" of Jan 22nd, so no one will be able to achieve the CTES mins.

This is, though, the last chance for skaters/teams to get the Jr Worlds CTES mins.

Jr Men - AND Garcia Shibinskaia, NOR Daniil Valanov are chasing lone entries for their countries.
Jr Women - BEL Shade de Brauwer, 3 Spanish women, LUX Dita Giltaire, MEX Regina Alejandra Torres Medrano, & PHI Cathryn Limketkai are hoping to be the lone entries for their countries.
Jr Pairs - AUT, ESP (2 teams), HUN, SUI (2 teams), & SVK have teams hoping to qualify for one entry for their country while CZE Kviderova/Klement are hoping to get the CTES mins to utilize the 2nd spot Cohen/Vochozka earned last year.
Jr Dance - FIN (2 teams), HKG, HUN, POR, & TPE have teams hoping to qualify for one entry for their country; and there are CZE & SUI teams hoping to earn them in order to become alternates & for next season as well.

Also @farahfan - looks like GamKor withdrew from Edge Cup as the results page no longer has a senior pairs category (not surprising since they were the only team entered when the results page was first published a couple weeks ago).
 

farahfan

Active Member
Messages
178
Also @farahfan - looks like GamKor withdrew from Edge Cup as the results page no longer has a senior pairs category (not surprising since they were the only team entered when the results page was first published a couple weeks ago).
Thanks! Looks like we won't see them until AWG and 4CC.
I'm just praying they've figured out their SBS jumps and can get those World CTES. 🙏
Sr Dance - there is a new team from Indonesia - Tasya Putri/Dwiki Eka Ramadhan - who knows what their skill level is, but they're here trying for something
Exciting! More Asian representation.
Also, thank you ISU for answering the "is Turkey part of Europe" debate. :rolleyes:
 

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
Messages
48,296
Also, thank you ISU for answering the "is Turkey part of Europe" debate. :rolleyes:
Eh, part of Turkey is at least in Europe - even if it's a small part, lol.

I'd like to see Israel switch over to competing at 4CCs, but it probably will never happen - though I think someone should point out to Papa Boris & Galit that they'd get an automatic 3 entries for every discipline which would enable them to send all of their skaters/teams who have the CTES mins. One of the best outcomes of 4CCs is how it has really helped some of those countries rise to the top in some disciplines as they utilized the competitive opportunity - WS points & another chance to rise on the SB list which in turn can put them in the mix for GP assignments they wouldn't have otherwise.
 

farahfan

Active Member
Messages
178
Eh, part of Turkey is at least in Europe - even if it's a small part, lol.

I'd like to see Israel switch over to competing at 4CCs, but it probably will never happen - though I think someone should point out to Papa Boris & Galit that they'd get an automatic 3 entries for every discipline which would enable them to send all of their skaters/teams who have the CTES mins. One of the best outcomes of 4CCs is how it has really helped some of those countries rise to the top in some disciplines as they utilized the competitive opportunity - WS points & another chance to rise on the SB list which in turn can put them in the mix for GP assignments they wouldn't have otherwise.
Yeah, now that I look at it G/K have gotten a big boost from the 4CC points. Philippines also has one male skater and one female skater qualified and is trying to get another female skater. I don't know if people realize how big that is for a tropical island nation with a developing economy and no culture of winter sports.

So a question about 4CC points: why do some skaters get them and others don't, and it doesn't have to do with placement like in other competitions?
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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39,081
It would have been difficult for the ISU to assign WS point for Euros and to use them for starting orders without a 4C’s, especially since they kicked out non-European countries after Barbara Ann Scott and Dick Button won it.

For years the prize money was less for 4C’s. (Then they reduced Euros, because reducing prize money is what they do.) Maybe 10 years ago I looked at all of the results until then of 4C’s, and there were only two or three years that the usual suspects would not have kept three spots based on prior year’s placement, and at least one of those was Japanese Men, who would have gained back that spot the following year, based on who they sent. Korea may have been the member that most benefited from having three each year from the get go.

The three qualifiers set-up for 4C’s — I’m not sure how Euros set up nations limits when it transitioned to them — did enable multiple kids from NJ or Richmond who couldn’t make it through the US or Canadian qualifying system to compete for Chinese Taipei, but then Euros did the same for quite a few dual citizens to compete for smaller/skeletal European Federations bringing far lesser skills and content. What killed that for both, along with many skaters for developing nations, was TES minimums.

ETA: which skaters don’t earn 4Cc’s points, if they completed the competition? Everyone at Euros and 4C’s that completes the free, ie, Top 24, gets WS points. I don’t remember a 4C’s where there were more skaters than 24 in any discipline.
 
Last edited:

Karen-W

YMCA is such a catchy tune!
Messages
48,296
I think 4CCs benefited China's Pairs teams and it definitely benefited the US & Canadian ice dance; it also didn't hurt Japanese ice dance when they had KoKo and KanaDai competing for that lone Worlds spot. And I do think that it will benefit Japanese ice dance with their two currently pretty closely-matched teams.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
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farahfan

Active Member
Messages
178
ETA: which skaters don’t earn 4Cc’s points, if they completed the competition? Everyone at Euros and 4C’s that completes the free, ie, Top 24, gets WS points. I don’t remember a 4C’s where there were more skaters than 24 in any discipline.
Ok, I was looking at skatingscores.com and in the 2024 results for pairs, ice dance, and men some of the WS boxes are blank for some competitors, but like you say they must have gotten points, it's just not reported on skatingscores.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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39,081
The automatic three only benefits those countries who would not have earned them from the prior year’s placement. Only recently after the pandemic disruption would Chinese Pairs get a third they wouldn’t have. US Dance has sent three teams each year except the first, and they would have qualified for three easily under the Euros/Worlds system. Japanese Ice Dance benefitted in 2013, when they sent two teams after having sent none from 2010-2012, with the Reeds WD in 2009. (They were 7th as the sole entry in 2008.). They would have earned one in 2014, and back to two in 2015 (Hirai/de La Asunción, the lone entry that year) and would have earned the two they sent through 2023. They were able to send a third, young team that they wouldn’t have in 2024.

Competing in 4C’s helped everyone who entered until TES minimums were created, but then so does competing at Euros.

With WS points setting the starting orders at Worlds, there is only an option to skip 4C’s strategically, ie, skaters have enough points to stay in the group they want or their Feds agree that one earlier group is acceptable, because European (in ISU terms) skaters will have championship points for the year. Splitting the points for the next season only makes sense there are fewer Worlds spots, or where team 4 is sent instead of team 3, when your first two are solid.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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39,081
Ok, I was looking at skatingscores.com and in the 2024 results for pairs, ice dance, and men some of the WS boxes are blank for some competitors, but like you say they must have gotten points, it's just not reported on skatingscores.
Vagabond pointed out that there were 27 in Men, so the following skaters earned no points for not making the FS:

25
23px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.png
Singapore
51.122551.12
Did not advance
to free skate
2648.852648.85
2742.282742.28
and for Women, there were 26, so the following skaters did not earn points because they missed the FS:


2539.542539.54
Did not advance
to free skate
2632.632632.63
All of the Pairs and Ice Dance teams earned WS points.
 

farahfan

Active Member
Messages
178
Ok, I was looking at skatingscores.com and in the 2024 results for pairs, ice dance, and men some of the WS boxes are blank for some competitors, but like you say they must have gotten points, it's just not reported on skatingscores.
Ok, I figured out my problem. Those skaters and pairs that have split or retired no longer have WS points attributed to them on skatingscores.com. Duh. So last years pairs scores have a blank WS box for Liu/Nagy and Zhang/Yeng, even though they placed 7th and 10th. Sorry for the confusion.
 

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