2024 4CC Women FS - Flutz, Caution

[puglover]

I am really pleased for Maddie S. and Sara Maude who both skated close to their potential here. Good job ladies!

 

[skatingguy]

This panel was not nice at all. Not a single woman had a clean skate according to them - either an unclear edge or a rotation issue.

I suspect the ones going to Worlds are going to fare much better score-wise if they skate as well as they did here.

The erasure of Andrea Montesinos Cantu.

 

[Karen-W]

The erasure of Andrea Montesinos Cantu.

That's what finishing 15th gets you - I start scrolling really fast through the protocols, lol.

 

[skatingguy]

That's what finishing 15th gets you - I start scrolling really fast through the protocols, lol.

The only reason that I knew was that I updated my play-by-play posts to reflect the calls, and she didn't have any.

 

[topaz]

Extremely disappointed with the majority of programs today. The Korean Fed needs an intervention. Their skaters are all packaged the same. SAME. Hair - side or middle part gathered into low bun. Programs - No musicality, no expressions related to the music/program combined with skating to angsty, powerful music.

They(Korean women skaters) were on the cusp of dominating women's skating about 2 year ago. Now, their skaters looked tired, worn out, uninspired and all the same styling.

 

[puglover]

This panel was not nice at all. Not a single woman had a clean skate according to them - either an unclear edge or a rotation issue.

I suspect the ones going to Worlds are going to fare much better score-wise if they skate as well as they did here.

Didn't they formerly refer to them as "technical specialist" and "assistant technical specialist"? If this is a change, does it make any difference in how the calls are made? I somehow thought if there was a difference of opinion, the referee broke the tie.

 

[skatingguy]

Didn't they formerly refer to them as "technical specialist" and "assistant technical specialist"? If this is a change, does it make any difference in how the calls are made? I somehow thought if there was a difference of opinion, the referee broke the tie.

Not the Referee - the Technical Controller. The Technical Panel consists of the Technical Specialist, Assistant Technical Specialist, and the Technical Controller. The Referee oversees the entire event including interacting with the skaters if necessary.

 

[Rukia]

Got through what happened after I fell asleep (lol) and MONE CHIBA!!!! That was so gorgeous.

I have no problem with Ziegler 4th because her skating honestly leaves a lot to be desired. Her air positions are always weird, her landings are hit and miss, and her basics just aren't as strong as some of the other skaters. Also I think her packaging is kind of awful. If she gets a dependable 3-3, improves her basics, and gets better programs (and yes I'm including that short because I don't think it's that good) she could go very far.

 

[Karen-W]

Not the Referee - the Technical Controller. The Technical Panel consists of the Technical Specialist, Assistant Technical Specialist, and the Technical Controller. The Referee oversees the entire event including interacting with the skaters if necessary.

Didn't the ISU change the titles at the 2022 Congress? There are two Technical Specialists now and no ATS.

 

[skatingguy]

Got through what happened after I fell asleep (lol) and MONE CHIBA!!!! That was so gorgeous.

I have no problem with Ziegler 4th because her skating honestly leaves a lot to be desired. Her air positions are always weird, her landings are hit and miss, and her basics just aren't as strong as some of the other skaters. Also I think her packaging is kind of awful. If she gets a dependable 3-3, improves her basics, and gets better programs (and yes I'm including that short because I don't think it's that good) she could go very far.

What would be the benefit of the triple-triple in the free skate? She landed a good one in the short minus the issues with her Lutz edge. She's already doing 7 triples in the free skate (edge issues aside).

 

[puglover]

Didn't the ISU change the titles at the 2022 Congress? There are two Technical Specialists now and no ATS.

So change of title but duties remain the same - they always were equal and now their titles denote that?

 

[Rukia]

What would be the benefit of the triple-triple in the free skate? She landed a good one in the short minus the issues with her Lutz edge. She's already doing 7 triples in the free skate (edge issues aside).

lol well ok then just move the combos around (I lost track of her jumps tbh because that program is just terrible between the voiceovers and babies and xtina wailing)

 

[skatingguy]

lol well ok then just move the combos around (I lost track of her jumps tbh because that program is just terrible between the voiceovers and babies and xtina wailing)

Assuming she doesn't have a triple Axel, or quad coming along, the only way for her to increase the technical content would be to move the jump combos to the 2nd half - also fix the edge issues.

 

[Private Citizen]

Got through what happened after I fell asleep (lol) and MONE CHIBA!!!! That was so gorgeous.

I actually think Chiba can challenge Sakamoto*, and she should beat Hendrickx with ease if she skates anything like she did here.

*I think / hope that the judges are getting bored with Sakamoto's dominance and will try to create competition v. give her a nearly-automatic threepeat.

I have no problem with Ziegler 4th because her skating honestly leaves a lot to be desired. Her air positions are always weird, her landings are hit and miss, and her basics just aren't as strong as some of the other skaters. Also I think her packaging is kind of awful. If she gets a dependable 3-3, improves her basics, and gets better programs (and yes I'm including that short because I don't think it's that good) she could go very far.

So basically if she becomes an entirely different skater .

I love Ziegler, but I agree with you on air position and landings. Basics, it depends what you mean. Packaging is hit or miss. I love her short program and think it has some of the best choreography of the season.

I've had enough heartbreaks (including with her mom, Tricia Mansfield) to be cautious in my enthusiasm because I do see the issues. The question in my mind is whether she will sustain the level of progress she has made in recent months or whether it's a temporary blip, kinda like Nicole Bobek had for a few months each time she changed coaches (assuming the coaches lasted a few months, which a few did not ). I'm not yet convinced that Ziegler is on a new trend line, although I want to be. We could still see regression toward the mean.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Watanabe. Great Axel. How often do we see a 3A or 4 done, but then some other elements erase much of the advantage. I prefer Watanabe, but Chiba technically beat Rinka handily. I guess, though, if you have a 3A you`re going to want to jump it.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Assuming she doesn't have a triple Axel, or quad coming along, the only way for her to increase the technical content would be to move the jump combos to the 2nd half - also fix the edge issues.

Is that so? First she had no 3-3. Couldn`t she add that? Also, if you have a 3 jump sequence does it mean you can`t have, say, a 3F-2T-2L?

 

[MacMadame]

I’m watching this tape delayed, but you could absolutely tell.

So says everyone. I must have missed a lot of that because I just saw the skate through, not the prep. (Hey, I was monitoring Howarth bingo and working on a non-skating thing at the same time. )

Extremely disappointed with the majority of programs today. The Korean Fed needs an intervention. Their skaters are all packaged the same. SAME. Hair - side or middle part gathered into low bun. Programs - No musicality, no expressions related to the music/program combined with skating to angsty, powerful music.

The hair and costume stuff definitely needs to change. It's to the point where everyone looks like everyone else! They need their distinct features and personalities to shine through and not to force them into the same physical mode.

 

[skatingguy]

Is that so? First she had no 3-3. Couldn`t she add that? Also, if you have a 3 jump sequence does it mean you can`t have, say, a 3F-2T-2L?

The only triple she can add to her program is a triple Axel - she's already doing 7 triples, that's the max. She could change out a double toeloop for a double loop, but she is already doing a 3 jump combo - 3F+2A+2A+SEQ - which is a higher base value element.

 

[mtnskater]

Just finished the replay. I’m officially a Mone Chiba fan! I haven’t been a fan of the current crop of Japanese ladies because most are a bit too sloppy stylistically for me. But Mone has it all, including beautiful classical line, posture, style and gentle quality. Lovely edging and spins. Congratulations to her!

Chaeyon does nothing for me but she is quite consistent, which will get you on podiums. And Wi is an excellent jumper but doesn’t have an artistic bone in her body sad to say.

Rinka is interesting to watch and that triple axel was fab. I liked her unique dress. But she always seems to hit elements fantastically, then have flubs. She had a popped jump too.

I thought for sure Ava would be over Rinka with fewer mistakes. But she is new on the scene at this level and the judges will judge a little more harshly until she shows she can be consistent over more high level comps. Ava held up well to the pressure and has improved dramatically this fall and winter. Kudos to her!

Good senior international debut for Elyce Lin-Gracey. Sad for Lindsey. I didn’t understand why she didn’t withdraw after the disaster at nationals from her back injury and lack of training. She didn’t do herself any favors here. She is a fantastic overall skater and I love to watch her skating. I wish she didn’t look like she was miserable all the time though.

Glad to see the top two Canadian women have a good competition too.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

The only triple she can add to her program is a triple Axel - she's already doing 7 triples, that's the max. She could change out a double toeloop for a double loop, but she is already doing a 3 jump combo - 3F+2A+2A+SEQ - which is a higher base value element.

I know the 3Lz is not her best, but she could replce the 2T out (2.) with the 3T from 9.

 

[skatingguy]

I know the 3Lz is not her best, but she could take the 2T out (2.)and add the 3T from 9.

And then do what as her final jumping pass?

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

And then do what as her final jumping pass?

OK. I need to be more familiar with the rules. So a 3Lz-3T scores the same as the jumps separately. Though, what I`ve seen is a more technical program gets a positive correlation to PCS.

 

[skatingguy]

OK. I need to be more familiar with the rules. So a 3Lz-3T scores the same as the jumps separately. Though, what I`ve seen is a more technical program gets a positive correlation to PCS.

It may, but that does tend to happen more in the men's event than the women's event. If you look at Ziegler's PCS she's behind the top 3 but not by much. If she could clean up some of her positions, and work on the smoothness of the landings, and the edge calls she'll improve that mark as well.

 

[airgelaal]

Extremely disappointed with the majority of programs today. The Korean Fed needs an intervention. Their skaters are all packaged the same. SAME. Hair - side or middle part gathered into low bun. Programs - No musicality, no expressions related to the music/program combined with skating to angsty, powerful music.

They(Korean women skaters) were on the cusp of dominating women's skating about 2 year ago. Now, their skaters looked tired, worn out, uninspired and all the same styling.

To be honest, I don’t see much difference with the situation in Japan, for example. Moreover, I think that in recent years, on the contrary, the situation has improved greatly and now there are more different girls in Korea. I don’t really understand what the federation should do if the girls themselves like to look like this?

 

[Kateri]

To be honest, I don’t see much difference with the situation in Japan, for example. Moreover, I think that in recent years, on the contrary, the situation has improved greatly and now there are more different girls in Korea. I don’t really understand what the federation should do if the girls themselves like to look like this?

I saw this article a while back about Korean women being attacked by men, if they look insufficiently feminine.

I don't want to make more of it than it is (god knows, gender stereotypes and reactionary extremists exist in many countries), and anyone more familiar with Korean culture, feel free to correct me if the article's way off-base, but... I did think about Korean skaters, and wonder about the social pressures they might be under.

 

[Wyliefan]

To be honest, I don’t see much difference with the situation in Japan, for example.

I don't think it's as big an issue in Japan. Rinka and Hana and Rion all have distinctive programs and looks. I don't like Mao's short program, but it too is distinctive.

 

[airgelaal]

I don't think it's as big an issue in Japan. Rinka and Hana and Rion all have distinctive programs and looks. I don't like Mao's short program, but it too is distinctive.

A for me, Haein, Young and Chaeyeon also have distinctive programs and looks

 

[MacMadame]

I saw this article a while back about Korean women being attacked by men, if they look insufficiently feminine.

The US is going this way with certain types of men assuming every woman with short hair is trans. It's not only horrifying but it's also so incredibly stupid. Like how poor do your critical thinking skills have to be to decide anyone with short hair (or long hair on a guy) is anything but someone with short/long hair?

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Lindsay frustrates the heck out of me. She did well enough once she settled into her fully grown body, but she’s regressing. I guess my fandom would be better off if I didn’t get attached to anyone’s skating.

Lindsey skated both her and Nationals a week ago with an injury. She only started jumping a few days before Nationals. I don't think she's regressing. She's just injured. She should have withdrawn, but I understand why she didn't want to.

 

[quartz]

My favourite things from this event: all three Japanese women, and Sara Maude who I hope can really step it up in the next year or two.