2019-2020 Programs and Choreographers

gkelly

Well-Known Member
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14,602
Well, there are several different reasons why a jump landing might lack a long controlled glide, and several of them are already specified in the negative GOE examples.

However, a several-blade-length glide followed by intentional controlled turns is not a mistake and should not be penalized more than, say, a two-blade-length controlled glide followed by a controlled step or other stroke to continue skating.

How long is "long"?

If you define "long controlled glide" as a certain distance or amount of time on a controlled back outside edge, that shouldn't mean that one-foot ornamentation of that edge after holding it for the minimum length should be penalized, if that's what you're trying to suggest.
 

NinjaTurtles

Teenage Mutant
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3,555
On the surface I think it’s a really intriguing suggestion, but with further thought it’s maybe too choreographically limiting for me. Sometimes a hard stop has purpose with the music and isn’t a reflection of poor execution. Kwan’s ending jump pass for Salome, for example (or a little less abrupt, but still nice from Cohen here)...or even Zagitova’s Don Quixote.
 

Marco

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14,336
Speaking of Eteri students - I was watching Brain Boitano's 1988 Olympic free skate and noticed how well he held all his landings. On his final jump, a 3loop, he landed and quickly transitioned into a forward spiral - and held it beautifully, showing masterful control. So again, it isn't that they shouldn't do transitions out of jump landings or that these aren't difficult, it's that perhaps they should stick with 1 transition move and hold it, instead of doing 3 moves but not holding any of them.

Just my preference though. I understand why those would score high in GOEs and under TR.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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14,651
I think a lot of the preferences in the code are a reaction to what was the norm when IJS started.

Would be interesting for biomechanical experts to come in and assess what is truly more difficult. Body types will differ, but maybe they could identify what combination of skills & positions really shows mastery.

As for the length of the landing glide, ... I'll know it when I see it. ;)

Seriously, since you made me think about it, it's more about the speed, flow, rhythm and landing position then the length of the glide. Sometimes the new style skaters show these dynamics as they go right into their transitions, but a lot of times there is a loss of speed, flow and/or rhythm. And I would say MOST of the time, there is a weak sauce landing position - no extension, free foot below the landing knee.

Changing speed, intentionally and in a difficult way as Kwan did at the end of Salome, certainly should not be a deduction.

As for the Cohen example @NinjaTurtles cited, that was gorgeous. I would consider that spiral position to be an extension of her landing position because there was really no change in her RBO edge, just a change in body position. Very high degree of difficulty!!
 
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Marco

Well-Known Member
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14,336
Sometimes the new style skaters show these dynamics as they go right into their transitions, but a lot of times there is a loss of speed, flow and/or rhythm. And I would say MOST of the time, there is a weak sauce landing position - no extension, free foot below the landing knee.
Exactly. Take Alina's solo 2axel in her free skate. The jump itself is fine and the transitions (before &) after are mighty difficult. There just isn't the kind of attention to body line or presentation to those transitions that I would have wanted. Whatever position that she was trying to get into - she didn't hold it quite enough to make an impact. It almost looked like she was trying to get into a position but aborted mid-way. Similarly when Anna did a 3flip in the short program and then grabbed her leg up into some sort of Y spiral, I like the whole sequence of moves but I want MORE - I want her to hold more of every bit of it. Her problem of course was that she wasn't landing her jumps with that much flow to begin with.
 

VGThuy

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29,854
I think it will take another phenom to do those transitions out of the highly difficult jumps better - with flow, speed, rhythm, and excellent body positions with great extension on the landing into those transitions - to make the rest of the field look less-than with their attempts, to reset the scoring default somewhat and raise the judges' standards as to what a jump with +4/5 GOE should look like. Basically, someone needs to do the work to make what is garnering high GOE in 2019 not garner it anymore and forcing those skaters to play catch up to reach their competitor's level and again get the scores they were accustomed to getting before someone better came along.

I would not be surprised if Eteri has a developing skater working on that along with pushing the tech even further. I'm convinced she's forward-thinking with this sort of stuff.
 

Polaris

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676
Well Hanyu barely got mileage out of those programs, but yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of both so was hoping for new programs.
 

Colonel Green

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2,552
I could understand keeping the free skate more easily, since he never had a "perfect" skate to it (though the Worlds performance was pretty close). I think a new short program wouldn't have been overextending himself.

From the sound of it, this season is going to be all about upping the tech for Hanyu.
 

Gris

Active Member
Messages
87
Wang / Liu FD: Black Swan


Chen / Sun FD: It's All Coming Back to Me Now


--------

Peng / Jin FS: Cloud Atlas

 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,560
Via Doris on GS . . .

Chock & Bates
Rhythm Dance: "Too Darn Hot" by Cole Porter from Kiss Me, Kate; choreo by Marie France Dubreuil, Sam Chouinard

Free Dance: "Yearning" by Raul Ferrando, "Sahara Nights" by DJ Quincy and "Layali Al-Sharq" by Al-Ahram Orchestra; choreo by Marie France Dubreuil, Sam Chouinard

Sorry, I don't have her original link. Probably someone else will know where it is & can link it.
 

Jeschke

#teamtrainwreck
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30,888
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aftershocks

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15,410
“Sabrina, the teenage witch” was my first thought too :lol:

#Salemthemechanicalcat4ever
I say bring on the witch! And bring on classic, romantic movie soundtracks, if/when they work. :cheer2: David Wilson did great work for Eunsoo with this Sabrina soundtrack. I wonder if he's been thinking about using Audrey's Sabrina for awhile, and finally thought he could do something cool with it for Eunsoo. :) Now if only Eunsoo could relax and show more emotion and interpretive skills. :COP:
 

Colonel Green

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2,552
What’s the most notable musical MIA from the Broadway RD this year? I’m not an expert on BPM or anything, but I’m surprised that nobody has done Hamilton, considering how popular it is.
 

Wyliefan

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26,968
So am I. And I don't think there's been any My Fair Lady either, which is surprising. There isn't even any Phantom or Les Mis! :lol:
I was thinking that Thoroughly Modern Millie would make a great program for a team that liked the old-school Broadway sound. And you could do a :kickass: costume change to it.
 

screech

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,116
What’s the most notable musical MIA from the Broadway RD this year? I’m not an expert on BPM or anything, but I’m surprised that nobody has done Hamilton, considering how popular it is.
I really wanted Book of Mormon, but the lyrics to most songs would make it tricky. I wanted Newsies too.

I don't know all the music being used, but do we have Hello Dolly? Wicked? Lion King? The King and I? Les Miserables? A Chorus Line? Oklahoma? Rock of Ages? Ain't Too Proud To Beg? The Music Man? Little Shop of Horrors? Company? Fiddler on the Roof? ANYTHING Andrew Lloyd Weber?
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
Messages
5,597
I say bring on the witch! And bring on classic, romantic movie soundtracks, if/when they work. :cheer2: David Wilson did great work for Eunsoo with this Sabrina soundtrack. I wonder if he's been thinking about using Audrey's Sabrina for awhile, and finally thought he could do something cool with it for Eunsoo. :) Now if only Eunsoo could relax and show more emotion and interpretive skills. :COP:
They used the remake soundtrack though. I think it's one of John Williams's most underrated soundtracks. It's gorgeous.
 

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