2019-20 Canadian ladies news and updates

Seerek

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5,387
"Top 10 Capable" these days means 200 point totals. Outside of the top 4 countries, only 1 other skater has managed 200. It's not just a Canadian thing.
 

haribobo

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7,977
I actually think this year was both the worst and best year for Canadian ladies skating of the last several, and gives me hope for the next few. Nationals was the shakeup everyone needed, however unimpressive a lot of the skating was. I think a lot of the newer "stars" are 1) inexperienced in senior competition, 2) underfunded, 3) maybe not receiving the highest level coaching they could. Looking forward to seeing who gets a "glow up" next season. I think all of Pineault, Bausback, and Schizas are capable of more engaging free skate programs musically and choreographically. But what is great is I think some of the younger crop will start to believe in themselves a little more and start to think bigger. There is still a huge gulf between Gabby's packaging and everyone else (well, I have really warmed to Alicia's SP), but whether or not she returns, that could be changing soon. Worlds will be tough but I hope Alicia and Emily enjoy it and can skate up to their talent level.

I think the early season in both intl and summer comps was so awful for Canadian ladies that nobody could be taken that seriously. Alicia scored 138 at US Intl classic. Schizas 127 and Schumacher 134 in junior at Minto. Its great to see how far they've come, but also I think they and some others will be a bit more prepared this coming season, knowing that they can actually contend for Skate Canada and 4cc/Worlds spots now. And the World minimums panic monkey is off the back for several skaters now...it was looking really grim having only 3ish active skaters with the mins for a while.
 

Zazy

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Messages
438
To me, there was no clear cut choice between Madeline and Amelia based on their two summer events. Certainly not "madness". I'd have given it to Madeline over Olivia though. We also don't know how people looked at the Next Gen camp, which probably played a role in the selections.

The bigger thing is that they need to list more subs, so that they can move people around more easily. Because the entries for a lot of the events were already in before Madeline had her stronger event at North York, but I don't think they had a lot of subs for Olivia's event in Russia, so they couldn't give Madeline that one (or move say Amelia there), and there were only three left. 2 were 2nd events for Kaiya (very deserved) and Alison (fair based on JW last year), and the other one was Amelia (obviously now we'd go Madeline over her, but like I said the summer events were split, so not madness).
Well, I think a 10-point gap in the highest scores achieved at summer competitions, combined with Orzel struggling at nationals and Schizas finishing second, is more than enough to be named to the JGP. It's frustrating to see that nationals placement simply doesn't matter for Skate Canada (I really don't think that's the reason Bausback is being sent to worlds). With juniors especially, a lot can change over the summer, so automatically sending national medallists to the jgp would be stupid. But sending the skater who finished 11th over the one who finished 2nd, and who is posting strong summer scores (and not even listing the 2nd place finisher as a sub!) is ridiculous. I agree managing the subs better would have helped but I'm not sure Skate Canada would have changed the assignments even then.

Sending Gran is probably due to her early success and the money Skate Canada has invested in her. Sending Orzel is probably due to her ambitious technical content but she has a ton of work to do on rotating what she's attempting and improving her skating and general quality. I also think that, nationally, Orzel gets bonus points for the technical content she attempts that simply won't translate internationally. Seeing both skaters this summer, there was no doubt in my mind which one had the most long-term potential, even before Madeline added a 3-3. Skate Canada's job is to evaluate talent but they do a very poor job of it, IMO. They seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes potential. I know I've complained about Schiza's non-selection a lot since the summer but, while I like her a lot, this isn't only about her - it's symptomatic of the problems with their approach.
 
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haribobo

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7,977
I think Madeline highlights what a stupid policy this "3lutz or bust" thing is and has been for years now, and I'm so glad. I was really hoping this Challenge Cup would turn out this way for her, because they really look silly now for not promoting her sooner and many people everywhere are pointing it out. Sometimes the sentiment of uberfans takes a few years to reach critical mass, and usually once it does, things finally do change. That's why I am not frothing at the mouth about her not getting Worlds, because she has already proved the point to so many people, and has been such a major part of the story this season for Canadian ladies already. A lot of people are rooting for her.
 

RoseRed

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1,650
I think that the issue is that Kayla was selected for JW right away and therefore there was only 1 spot available at each and 3 deserving ladies...
Except that imo, Kaiya deserved the spot as much as any of the others, so how would it really have solved anything? I'm very glad that Kaiya is going to JW - that experience will be very valuable for her.

And also, Kaiya had the best Nationals performance of all of them. She would have beaten Emily's score with the senior choreo sequence, and she beat both Alison and Madeline's even without it. Would you really take the spot away from her for one of the others?
 

Erin

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9,565
I think Madeline highlights what a stupid policy this "3lutz or bust" thing is and has been for years now, and I'm so glad.
Agreed. The only season when the “triple lutz or bust” approach might make sense is when it is the required jump in the SP and even then, I can think of one example where they missed sending a really talented skater because of it (Osmond in 2011, as I already mentioned in this thread).

What’s weird is that SC is not even that consistent with that policy, as Larkyn Austman got a lot of senior assignments without one (as has Veronik Mallet lately). And Aurora Cotop has had plenty of senior assignments with no triple lutz or triple-triple. So you can’t go out on the JGP without a triple lutz, but you can go to SC, 4CC, Worlds, and the Olympics? I get that they want to push the technical content and need to push it even further looking at the rest of the world, but that approach isn’t working.
 
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barbarafan

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4,597
Agreed. The only season when the “triple lutz or bust” approach might make sense is when it is the required jump in the SP and even then, I can think of one example where they missed sending a really talented skater because of it (Osmond in 2011, as I already mentioned in this thread).

What’s weird is that SC is not even that consistent with that policy, as Larkyn Austman got a lot of senior assignments without one (as has Veronik Mallet lately). So you can’t go out on the JGP without a triple lutz, but you can go to SC, 4CC, Worlds, and the Olympics? I get that they want to push the technical content and need to push it even further looking at the rest of the world, but that approach isn’t working.
When it comes to Senior high performance and upcoming seniors Skate Canada decides who they want to go to events and they let the judges know their preferences before nationals. If things don't work out they make up new rules to fit their choice. They need more fresh blood in the Federation.
 

Dobre

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6,668
Out of pure curiosity, what was the highest placement at last year's Worlds for a lady without a triple lutz?
 

Colonel Green

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5,684
Out of pure curiosity, what was the highest placement at last year's Worlds for a lady without a triple lutz?
Only two skaters who made the free in Saitama didn’t attempt a triple Lutz: Nicole Schott (16th) and Natasha McKay (21st).
 

Marco

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14,514
Here's hoping Emily's injury that she sustained during the free at Challenge Cup wasn't so serious. If it wasn't, then great - she would get to truly fight 100% at Worlds where it mattered. If it was, I hope she and her team would do the right thing. I was suddenly reminded of Rachael Flatt in 2011.

Anyways if there are no more spring internationals or WTT / TCC after Worlds, I hope Madeleine gets a SC host spot next season along with a few fall internationals. I suppose she should go straight to seniors since she is of age and doesn't have a 3lutz.

Funny that with senior worlds, they first went with international results for 1 spot (Alicia at 4CCs) and then with nationals for the other (Emily). For junior worlds, they first went with nationals for 1 spot (Kaiya) and then also went with nationals for the other spot which was soooo close (within 1 point) when Alison scored 150 at 4CCs and Madeleine scored 175 at Challenge Cup. This is so Ross over Jeremy in 2011.
 

Katta

Active Member
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236
Except that imo, Kaiya deserved the spot as much as any of the others, so how would it really have solved anything? I'm very glad that Kaiya is going to JW - that experience will be very valuable for her.

And also, Kaiya had the best Nationals performance of all of them. She would have beaten Emily's score with the senior choreo sequence, and she beat both Alison and Madeline's even without it. Would you really take the spot away from her for one of the others?
Well, we have 4 junior ladies and 3 spots (2 JW and 1SW). Everyone is up in arms that Shizas was pushed to the side by SC, but SC had no choice... With naming Kaiya to JW right away, one of the remaining ladies (Emily, Madeline and Allison) was going to get nothing. I'm not saying Kaiya isn't deserving, I think a case could be made for all 4 of them. Maybe they shouldn't have named Alicia and waited until after 4CC and the other last comp. I just don't know :confused:
 

Dobre

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6,668
It is what it is. I do think they should have tapped Madeline to go to an international event as soon as she won challenge. In which case, she might have won the berth to 4CCs over Alicia. But that's a very limited time table. Probably one wouldn't want to travel between Challenge & Nationals at which point the 4CC team was selected. In any case, this has turned out to be a great growing season for Madeline. Emily has also had some great breakthrough moments this season (breaking through at the U.S. Classic, winning Nationals, and re-earning her TES in the SP at Challenge Cup). Schumaker has been up & down but has had enough ups to have some positive experiences during this big transition year. And Alicia, back healthy, has been gaining some real experience this season as well. None of them have been out there much so this is a big transition and rebuilding year for the Canadian ladies.
 

okokok777

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Messages
82
Well, we have 4 junior ladies and 3 spots (2 JW and 1SW). Everyone is up in arms that Shizas was pushed to the side by SC, but SC had no choice... With naming Kaiya to JW right away, one of the remaining ladies (Emily, Madeline and Allison) was going to get nothing. I'm not saying Kaiya isn't deserving, I think a case could be made for all 4 of them. Maybe they shouldn't have named Alicia and waited until after 4CC and the other last comp. I just don't know :confused:
I think Kaiya was the easiest choice. She had a pretty solid JGP season, upgraded from a 3T-3T to a 3Lz-3T by Nationals, effectively had the highest overall score of the ladies at Nationals (only 0.71 points behind Emily with no choreo. sequence in Juniors), etc.

IMHO Skate Canada made a lot of mistakes re: Madeline. I still think that she should have been given a JGP spot based on 2nd place finish (Juniors) at Canadian Nationals in 2019 & her summer results. Secondly, they should have sent her to at least one fall Challenger or competition as a senior so she could have gotten her TES minimums for 4CC. She was only sent to Volvo Open - where she competed as a junior. Thirdly, why did they have her compete as a junior at Bavarian Open? She already had her Junior World TES minimums from Volvo. Also, if she was always "third" in contention for the spots, why even have her compete at Challenge Cup? Based on their decision, it looks like if Emily didn't get her mins, they would've just sent Alison to Worlds & Emily to JWC.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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7,319
Daleman not even a sub. In the past they named virtually anyone with the TES minimums as a sub, including Zhao in 2016 who was 16th at nationals.
 

4rkidz

plotting, planning and travelling
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12,234
Daleman not even a sub. In the past they named virtually anyone with the TES minimums as a sub, including Zhao in 2016 who was 16th at nationals.
Perhaps the message to work on her mental health? she has so much to be proud of such an amazing career. I hope she can use her strengths an talents to a life beyond skating.
 

lyneyuki

Member
Messages
91
" Her skaters are some of the best technically trained skaters in Canada- if not the world "

What? When was the last time a McLeod skater was on an international podium? The train has left the station and she had stayed behind. She might have developed special relationships with some of her skaters but she has never acknowledge her shortcomings and seek the help needed from outside or at least improve on them. Her axel technic is a disaster, then the toe axel combos and never mind the sluggish skating and the poor skating skills. I could go on and on...
 

puglover

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Messages
1,930
" Her skaters are some of the best technically trained skaters in Canada- if not the world "

What? When was the last time a McLeod skater was on an international podium? The train has left the station and she had stayed behind. She might have developed special relationships with some of her skaters but she has never acknowledge her shortcomings and seek the help needed from outside or at least improve on them. Her axel technic is a disaster, then the toe axel combos and never mind the sluggish skating and the poor skating skills. I could go on and on...
Aleksa Rakic, a skater of Joanne's, just placed 4th at the Youth Olympics. He does not have a triple axel or quad but the rest was very good. I am sure she has her weaknesses, all coaches do, but how do we know that she hasn't worked on them. She does have a team - including Neil Wilson who work with her - and they have many successful students.
 

Colonel Green

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5,684
Daleman not even a sub. In the past they named virtually anyone with the TES minimums as a sub, including Zhao in 2016 who was 16th at nationals.
Perhaps the message to work on her mental health? she has so much to be proud of such an amazing career. I hope she can use her strengths an talents to a life beyond skating.
They didn't name Mallet as a substitute either, so I wouldn't say it's anything specific to Gabrielle. After nationals I assume they just concluded she needs to take the rest of the year off and hopefully be better for next season.
 

blue_idealist

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2,570
Daleman not even a sub. In the past they named virtually anyone with the TES minimums as a sub, including Zhao in 2016 who was 16th at nationals.
Daleman and Mallet both skated dismally at Nationals. IMO, neither deserve to be named as a sub.
 
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Deleted member 69339

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" Her skaters are some of the best technically trained skaters in Canada- if not the world "

What? When was the last time a McLeod skater was on an international podium? The train has left the station and she had stayed behind. She might have developed special relationships with some of her skaters but she has never acknowledge her shortcomings and seek the help needed from outside or at least improve on them. Her axel technic is a disaster, then the toe axel combos and never mind the sluggish skating and the poor skating skills. I could go on and on...
 

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