Repercussions of Papadakis' book & Cizeron's response

overedge said:
At US nationals Johnny also shared unsubstantiated rumors about Jason Brown's reputation in the skating world. IMO that's a much bigger demonstration of bias than anything Gabi said on air.
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I do think it was much more biased. It wasn't directly about Jason's skating, but was about what others were saying. Totally unnecessary. And I did wonder whether Jason heard about their commentary and it got in his head. I can't even imagine the reaction if Gabi had said something similar.

I thought it was pretty clear which two particular men skaters NBC wanted on the team, and Jason was not one of them. I think NBC is fine with bias by their commentary team and rinkside interviewer, but they want particular bias that they think will be good for their ratings.
 
fan said:
Uh, what now??
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There's a lot of people who took it really personally that Johnny said a lot of people backstage didn't want Jason on the team. He didn't say Jason had a poor reputation, just that his stock for the Olympic team was down - which is completely understandable. He also said Tomoki's stock was up, which is also understandable. IIRC this was said between the Men's SP and FS at nationals which makes it even more believable.

Which, when Sarah on The Runthrough called figure skating fans "soft," she was talking exactly about stuff like this. Fans just can't handle the truth sometimes.
 
fan said:
Uh, what now??
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Johnny said (paraphrasing) that there were backstage rumours that Jason had fallen out of favour. I don't remember if he indicated who or what Jason was no longer favoured by, but from the context I would guess he meant USFS.

ETA: It's the attribution to "backstage rumours" that really bothered me. If Johnny felt that Tomoki is more likely to get opportunities now than Jason was/is, that's fine, but there are more mature ways to present that information.
 
overedge said:
Johnny said (paraphrasing) that there were backstage rumours that Jason had fallen out of favour. I don't remember if he indicated who or what Jason was no longer favoured by, but from the context I would guess he meant USFS.
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As I said in my post, this was not "out of favor" in the context that USFS hates him. No, USFS still loves him.

It was "out of favor" in the sense that USFS wasn't seeing him as a good choice for the Olympic team any more, while they were viewing Tomoki Hiwatashi more favorably for the Olympic team.
 
overedge said:
I can fully believe that, especially after Jason's LP. But Johnny cattily attributing this information to "backstage rumours" was unnecessary and unprofessional IMO.
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See - and this is where ITA that figure skating fans are soft.

"Rumor" is a very, very common thing in sports journalism. Not skating - although it should be given the way that "Rumor: Papadakis trashes Cizeron in new book" may have lessened the blow from fans who are now never going to read the book and read her actual perspective on things.

There are legit sports journalists out there who preface many tweets with [Rumor]. Rumors and behind the scenes gossip are part and parcel of sports. Eg. "Rumor: Y organization is firing/hiring Coach X." "Hearing rumors that ___" "I'm hearing there was a massive argument in the locker room after the loss today." There's even specific terminology for things that use the word rumor like "Trade Rumor."
 
Guillaume and Laurence truly are amazing. That was great. From just watching the skating you'd not know there was some other stuff going on.

I'm saddened to see what's happened with Gabi and Guillaume. An amazing duo on the ice, to... this. I never imagined all that was going on and the negative feelings obviously very close to the surface. I thought since they'd been together since childhood, with all their shared history, there would be a certain level of connection that nothing could break apart. Obviously not. Well, I wish him the best at Olys, and I hope she's able to come to terms with her history... because it sounds like a work in progress, from where I sit. She's had a very rough go and I wish her peace moving forward.
 
Something being common doesn't make it good journalism, or good coverage. "Backstage rumour"is incredibly vague. That could be from any source, or an unreliable source, or a source that was making a joke that Johnny happened to overhear in the hallway.

It isn't soft IMO to expect commentators to follow some basic standards of reliability.
 
overedge said:
I can fully believe that, especially after Jason's LP. But Johnny cattily attributing this information to "backstage rumours" was unnecessary and unprofessional IMO.
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Why? He was reporting what he had heard while protecting his sources, like any professionally trained journalist would do in a similar situation. If he couldn't get anyone to go on the record then all he could do was report what he'd been hearing in a vague sort of "backstage rumors" way. I think it was actually appropriate to lay the groundwork for the possibility that Jason may have been left off the Olympic team. As it turned out, Jason did that all by himself, but shouldn't the viewers have as much information and insight as possible when it comes to a rather opaque selection process that could leave a longstanding fan favorite off the team?
 
And again going with the „smear campaign“. You would think the NYT would have learned something from the mockery of journalism they did in the Lively-Baldoni case. They don‘t check their sources anymore and don’t reach out to other parties in a timely manner.
 
overedge said:
Something being common doesn't make it good journalism, or good coverage. "Backstage rumour"is incredibly vague. That could be from any source, or an unreliable source, or a source that was making a joke that Johnny happened to overhear in the hallway.

It isn't soft IMO to expect commentators to follow some basic standards of reliability.
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Nah. It's totally soft.

A huge part of commentary is context and narrative. NBC tries to provide this, but perhaps because of negative feedback like this just doesn't provide any feedback fans deem "rude" or "rumors."

Narrative - including rumors - help provide a LOT of context to certain things. For instance, as @Karen-W said, this information helped provide context that prepared viewers for the possibility he wasn't on the team. Similarly, you hear a lot of rumors of skaters being sick or injured - some that skaters confirm and some that are just rumors that the commentators reveal.

And what do you say for yourself and all fans that online fans - people who are anonymous and that you have no idea the veracity of their information - spread rumors all the time that fans don't find rude. Or even insider podcasts like The Runthrough or reporters like Jackie or coaches like Meagan Duhamel - they share information that is just rumors and call it that but fans eat it up. Then someone like Johnny that has a wealth of connections says something on TV and suddenly it's so wrong because it's negativity about a skater they like? So hypocritical.
 
Willin said:
Which, when Sarah on The Runthrough called figure skating fans "soft," she was talking exactly about stuff like this. Fans just can't handle the truth sometimes.
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I think you're missing the point. Gabi didn't say anything remotely like this.

Also, anyone who thinks that Johnny Weir and the other members of the NBC team are unbiased are either biased themselves or just haven't listened to their commentary.

And i'm sure Johnny had heard people talk about other skaters in other disciplines who were on the bubble and were having problems, but he didn't share that. There was some omission of commentary on some interesting scores and performances.
 
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@Allskate

I'm not sure why you're bringing Gabi into this? I didn't accuse her of calling skating fans soft?

I am accusing (some - mostly Facebook/twitter) skating fans of being soft because they were so immediately offended by what was coming out about the book - or even the release date - that they're attacking Gabi.

And yes, the NBC crew are biased. Their job is to promote US skating. But I wouldn't say they are biased against any particular US skaters - especially Jason, who gets them a TON of views, likes, and shares of the various clips of him they share. If anything they have a great interest in Jason getting to the Olympics for the storyline and social media content alone. And while I can't deny Johnny did totally seem to loathe Jason earlier in his career (as he also seemed to loathe Adam Rippon as soon as he came out), other than this quote he has been positively GLOWING about Jason. It was even Nationals here that he declared Jason was one of the GOATs of men's skating.
 
Willin said:
Nah. It's totally soft.

A huge part of commentary is context and narrative. NBC tries to provide this, but perhaps because of negative feedback like this just doesn't provide any feedback fans deem "rude" or "rumors."

Narrative - including rumors - help provide a LOT of context to certain things. For instance, as @Karen-W said, this information helped provide context that prepared viewers for the possibility he wasn't on the team. Similarly, you hear a lot of rumors of skaters being sick or injured - some that skaters confirm and some that are just rumors that the commentators reveal.

And what do you say for yourself and all fans that online fans - people who are anonymous and that you have no idea the veracity of their information - spread rumors all the time that fans don't find rude. Or even insider podcasts like The Runthrough or reporters like Jackie or coaches like Meagan Duhamel - they share information that is just rumors and call it that but fans eat it up. Then someone like Johnny that has a wealth of connections says something on TV and suddenly it's so wrong because it's negativity about a skater they like? So hypocritical.
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Jason's LP was (unfortunately) enough to ensure that he wasn't on the team. That would have been obvious to even the most casual viewer. It wasn't necessary to bring in unsubstantiated rumours to explain why he wasn't going to the Olympics.

I can't speak for why all fans believe what they believe. I don't follow skating Twitter or listen to the podcasts you mention, so I have no idea what's being said there or how people react to it, or whether they believe it. Personally I like commentators to provide information that's relevant and reliable. Jason allegedly not getting support backstage doesn't meet those criteria IMO.

ETA: Also, Johnny is a high-profile commentator on a major TV network. He reaches a much larger audience than most skating bloggers or podcasters. So what he says carries way more weight than other people's comments.
 
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Since we’re discussing bias, it’s interesting to me how differently people can interpret the same commentary. Posters who have been quite plain about their distaste for Weir are not surprisingly interpreting his commentary negatively, while others (including some who have expressed a liking for Weir) saw it as simply reporting what was going on. I personally had no issue with Johnny’s comment, but I like him so would naturally be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. He stated what he was hearing while he, Tara and Terry were speculating about who would make the Olympic team. And considering that it had been reported on this board earlier in the week that the word from on high was that absent a reliable 3A and combo Brown was unlikely to make the team, it seems that those discussions were happening openly among the powers that be and they were not being held in close confidence.
 
overedge said:
Jason's LP was (unfortunately) enough to ensure that he wasn't on the team. That would have been obvious to even the most casual viewer. It wasn't necessary to bring in unsubstantiated rumours to explain why he wasn't going to the Olympics.

I can't speak for why all fans believe what they believe. I don't follow skating Twitter or listen to the podcasts you mention, so I have no idea what's being said there or how people react to it, or whether they believe it. Personally I like commentators to provide information that's relevant and reliable. Jason allegedly not getting support backstage doesn't meet those criteria IMO.
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Why? It was context. We don't know how much leg those backstage conversations had. Well, scratch that. We DO know that there was something afoot because there were insider-connected folks here on FSU reporting last month that there was some question about Jason's utility for the Olympic TE and that Nationals was going to be a deciding factor.

Johnny reporting THAT information to the viewing audience was absolutely something that was relevant. You cannot claim that it was unreliable when he did not share the identity of his sources. I tend to think it was reliable based on just what had been hinted at here in December, however mileage may vary. And, clearly, with that sort of information, it wasn't well-received by Jason's legion of fans who had been disregarding & dismissing the rumors that were actually out there in the FS ether for the last 6-7 weeks. That's where a lot of fans are 'soft' as @Willin puts it.

I'll give an example of where I'm a little soft... There are lots of rumors out there about Chan/Howe & how well they do or do not get along. I tend to err on the side of dismissing them because I don't like to hear the negative stuff about my favorite US pairs team. But if Johnny Weir were to have reported on "tension between them" on air, I'd like to think I wouldn't have dismissed it out of hand or called it inappropriate and unnecessary. Reporting that information can help explain why the team is having trouble skating clean or looked out of sorts in their SP. But, I'm also someone who usually errs on the side of "we can never have too much information or reference points."
 
kwanfan1818 said:
There are plenty of ways to get the point across, like, "If Jason Brown does not place in the top three or a very close 4th, he will need a lot of support to be assigned to the Olympic team, and it isn't clear, based on his Fall results, whether he has it."
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Yes, and provide similar commentary about the other skaters. Because we know what the criteria were and how the skaters were or were not meeting them. And not just with the men. I'm sure there was discussion about Chan and Howe going on and not just because of their dismal short program. (I'm not talking about any tension between the two of them.)

Talk about the trajectory of the skaters and how their programs and performances have (or have not) been developing over the season. I think that's what Gabi did with C&B's FD.

Karen-W said:
But if Johnny Weir were to have reported on "tension between them" on air, I'd like to think I wouldn't have dismissed it out of hand or called it inappropriate and unnecessary.
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But he didn't mention it, did he? And I don't think it would have been appropriate to single them out for this unless it's about the impact on their skating and unless he's going to mention similar issues in other pairs or teams.

And, again, compare Gabi's commentary, which is what this thread is about. How has she been biased in her commentary, which is what some people in this thread have been claiming? Pick a standard, but apply it to all the commentators and all the skaters.

Johnny has always had his favorites; he constantly ignored the issues with Eteri's girls (both with their presentation and other issues). Until the doping scandal put an end to it.

I also think that the NBC commentators say things that even they don't believe because NBC wants to promote American skaters.

I can totally understand why NBC dropped Gabi, but let's not pretend that NBC is oh so unbiased or that Gabi actually has engaged in a level of bias beyond what we see from NBC's other commentators. I would bet that they wanted Gabi to gush about C&B.

my little pony said:
where was this energy when Scott screeched endlessly about B/S being overscored?
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Oh, it definitely was there online.

That was a great story for the network. And the networks love great stories, especially with figure skating. Being objective is not their priority.
 
Allskate said:
Yes, and provide similar commentary about the other skaters. Because we know what the criteria were and how the skaters were or were not meeting them. And not just with the men. I'm sure there was discussion about Chan and Howe going on and not just because of their dismal short program. (I'm not talking about any tension between the two of them.)

Talk about the trajectory of the skaters and how their programs and performances have (or have not) been developing over the season. I think that's what Gabi did with C&B's FD.


But he didn't mention it, did he? And I don't think it would have been appropriate to single them out for this unless it's about the impact on their skating and unless he's going to mention similar issues in other pairs or teams.

And, again, compare Gabi's commentary, which is what this thread is about. How has she been biased in her commentary, which is what some people in this thread have been claiming? Pick a standard, but apply it to all the commentators and all the skaters.

Johnny has always had his favorites; he constantly ignored the issues with Eteri's girls (both with their presentation and other issues). Until the doping scandal put an end to it.

I also think that the NBC commentators say things that even they don't believe because NBC wants to promote American skaters.

I can totally understand why NBC dropped Gabi, but let's not pretend that NBC is oh so unbiased or that Gabi actually has engaged in a level of bias beyond what we see from NBC's other commentators. I would bet that they wanted Gabi to gush about C&B.
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I thought Gabi was pretty neutral and fair in her commentary. But I also think the way the media & information ecosystem functions these days that NBC was in the unenviable position of having to worry that Guillaume's side of the story would gain traction in the general American press (which it has gotten at least a blip of) and call into question her on-air neutrality.

It's not fair to her, certainly, but I get why they made that call, especially if they're worried that Chock/Bates may actually lose the ID gold to FBCiz. Any criticism they may want to weigh against FBCiz winning would automatically be colored by this situation with Cizeron sending Papadakis a formal notice/cease & desist letter. And, in this day and age, unlike 24 years ago, I think the general public is far more aware of the potential biases and narrative building that corporate, mainstream media engages in when delivering coverage of any news event.
 
Christine Brennan's 2 tweets today: https://x.com/cbrennansports/status/2012607905099366881
NBC shouldn’t have fired Olympic gold medalist Gabriella Papadakis. They should be thrilled to have her on board to discuss the issues of abuse, power and control in figure skating in her new book. We invite @GabriellaPks to come on our @usatodaysports podcast Milan Magic.
Ex-dance partner of Papadakis, Guillaume Cizeron, is skating with Laurence Fournier Beaudry at the Olympics. Fournier Beaudry’s previous partner, Nikolaj Sorensen, was banned for alleged sexual assault. Ban overturned on a technicality, now being appealed.
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Link to the "Milan Magic" podcast thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/milan-magic-podcast-with-brennan-boitano.113602/
 
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