Russian Skaters Allowed to Compete as Neutrals (AIN) to Qualify for 2026 Winter Olympics

[caseyedwards]

Wasn't the IOC ban more because of when Russia invaded?

No. you can read what the IOC said. Russia took over parts of Ukraine and took over property of Ukrainian Olympic committee and until it returns that Ukrainian Olympic committee property Russia can’t ever return in any way.

“unilateral decision taken by the Russian Olympic Committee on 5 October 2023 to include, as its members, the regional sports organisations which are under the authority of the National Olympic Committee (NOC) of Ukraine (namely Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia) constitutes a breach of the Olympic Charter because it violates the territorial integrity of the NOC “

It can’t be said Enough the Olympic truce is not a real thing. It’s not a real thing. Why was America allowed to compete during Vietnam? During Iraq? It’s not a real thing

 

[coppertop1]

I'm so over Russia and their apologists whining and complaining. The always the victim. Everyone hates them because they're the best. Russia should have been banned for doping ten years ago. They have no respect for anyone. Figure skating was so much more enjoyable without them

 

[On My Own]

Russian apologists are no different from North American apologists, to me, to whom their countries never do any wrong. There was literally a state sponsored doping program in the States in the 80s, and even during the summer olympics this year, some things surfaced about USADA.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

EXPLAINER: What in the world is the Olympic Truce?

A U.N. resolution upholding the Olympic Truce has been passed 15 times. The pact has its roots in ancient Greece, when it was intended to grant athletes from constantly warring city-states safe passage to the Olympic Games.

apnews.com

There are other violations/apparent violations.

Mind you that Russia itself has escaped this before, so I'm glad they finally took action against it.

Russia attacked other states during Olympics not once, but twice with no reaction from IOC. I would have applauded the ban if the so important charter stated "third time a state attacks during Olympic Games", but no, it's just selective political usage. Not to mention Belarus, that didn't really participate in either of the 3 wars, but got under ban for being... what was it? "An accomplice".

As mentioned before, there have been dozens of wars of any form, shape and length before, during and after Olympic games, and the only times countries have been banned over them was when these countries lost these wars - specifically WWI and WWII. These sanctions are just popularity contest with zero legal base.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Russian apologists are no different from North American apologists, to me, to whom their countries never do any wrong. There was literally a state sponsored doping program in the States in the 80s, and even during the summer olympics this year, some things surfaced about USADA.

I don't think there's a single Russian apologist on this forum. Definitely not I. Russia was justifyingly banned for the insane doping scheme (albeit, the conduct of WADA was questionable), and I would have even accepted the claim of "we didn't do it before, but will start from now on".

But all that doesn't prevent me from calling a spade a spade. Just because "they are the bad guys" you can't just do whatever you want as an international organization that claims to be non-political and neutral. It is a witch hunt, even if I fully agree that's a witch. There must be the ability to tell right from wrong and legal from illegal, otherwise whoever "we" are, "we" are not better than "they" who just cheer for "our" football team, doesn't matter what that team does. In this case - literally.

 

[Karen-W]

And both Russian and USA apologists are no different than Chinese apologists who continue to claim there's nothing to see there when it comes to fudging DOBs or their own doping allegations, much less the decision to award the 2022 Winter Olympics to Beijing despite the ongoing subjugation of the Uighyurs, not to mention the occupation of Tibet, or the CCP's continued assertion that Taiwan is nothing more than a rogue province - which the IOC & the international community have kowtowed to by going along with the ridiculous demand that Taiwan be called Chinese Taipei by all sports federations.

Or are we, today, excusing India's NOC for its continued, massive corruption issues that have nearly gotten it suspended by the IOC? Or the pissing match between the IOC and IBA (Int'l Boxing Association) which has resulted in boxing being run by the IOC at the last 2 Olympics?

But if we're going to accuse the IOC of racism, then how do we square them nearly booting the Modern Pentathlon folks from the Olympics after the clear equine abuse that happened in Tokyo and has forced the federation into a massive overhaul of it's actual competition where Paris is the last time we see the horse part of their event? Because, let's be real, modern pentathlon is the most Eurocentric of all Olympic sports, yet the IOC did take action when they had the world's eyes on them.

That's really what the RUS/BLR ban is. It's not about racism, it's about the focus and attention of their major sponsors and the major media markets of the world on the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia. BRICS countries & their satellites can bitch all they like. Who cares? Certainly not the IOC. And they won't until those countries and sponsorship dollars originating from them are worth more than the countries that drove this ban. Don't like this harsh truth? No one who matters in this conversation cares. The only thing the IOC cares about is sponsorship money. They want Russian broadcasting rights money for Milano-Cortina. If you want to change what's driving this situation, find more money to give the IOC. Or don't. But quit bitching about it or anything it does until you're willing to pony up the cash & perks the IOC elitists love love love.

 

[MsZem]

Because, let's be real, modern pentathlon is the most Eurocentric of all Olympic sports, yet the IOC did take action when they had the world's eyes on them.

This made me curious, so I checked Wikipedia: of the six Olympic medalists in Paris, three were non-Europeans, including the men's champion (Egypt).

 

[On My Own]

CCP's continued assertion that Taiwan is nothing more than a rogue province

It's a continued assertion that's supported by your own country BTW, and I'm not talking about sports there.

Or are we, today, excusing India's NOC for its continued, massive corruption issues that have nearly gotten it suspended by the IOC? Or the pissing match between the IOC and IBA (Int'l Boxing Association) which has resulted in boxing being run by the IOC at the last 2 Olympics?

Is this the same thing as warcrimes, and violation of the Olympic truce that'd come up before?

It's not about racism, it's about the focus and attention of their major sponsors and the major media markets of the world on the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia. BRICS countries & their satellites can bitch all they like. Who cares? Certainly not the IOC. And they won't until those countries and sponsorship dollars originating from them are worth more than the countries that drove this ban. Don't like this harsh truth? No one who matters in this conversation cares. The only thing the IOC cares about is sponsorship money. They want Russian broadcasting rights money for Milano-Cortina. If you want to change what's driving this situation, find more money to give the IOC. Or don't. But quit bitching about it or anything it does until you're willing to pony up the cash & perks the IOC elitists love love love.

So then it's really about money. Not warcrimes OR the Olympic Truce. Which makes the entire page before this meaningless.

The AP News article about the USA's own violations that have gone on without action is free to be read, btw.

 

[Private Citizen]

If the IOC starts to ban countries off warcrimes, I'd love to see it happen to the States, if only because this forum will have a meltdown over the "bad faith", "disingenuous", "strawman", et cetera et cetera arguments that would be written in the document administering that ban.

Just wait until Trump invades Canada, Panama, Greenland, or any of the other things people on this forum believe he will do . (If he does any of those things, then by all means ban the US.)

Some (white) people matter more than the others (brown). That's the only reason this ban exists.

I hesitate to ask, but how on earth is this ban about racism? Or are you saying it's racist for Russia to be banned while another country (presumably Israel) is not?

 

[Andora]

Claiming not to be a Russian apologist while using a ridiculous defense for why Russia shouldn't be banned is hysterical. Almost as good as white people saying "it's not about race."

I'd love to see the IOC lump the USA/China/Israel/India/other powerful nations in with these bans, but then who would pay for the Olympics? They can only piss off one juggernaut nation at a time, and I'm so glad Russia drew short straw. I'm only sad we're going to be gaslit about the shit russian skating that will descend upon us again, with undeserved high scores and people who are apparently blind extoling the virtues of starved pre-teens competing against adults.

(And I'll keep bleating from my couch across the world, because those I know and love who live in Ukraine deserve better than those brushing aside their interests because they buy Putin's BS that Ukraine is basically culturally Russian so this isn't a real invasion)

 

[On My Own]

I hesitate to ask, but how on earth is this ban about racism?

I said that the reason people pay more attention to some warcrimes and any associated sanctions is because of the global world order, which is ultimately a racist one.

Or are you saying it's racist for Russia to be banned while another country (presumably Israel) is not?

I see Cheetos having an effect, more and more, on you.

 

[MacMadame]

If an organization is so highly selective about "its charter" that it's used once out of hundreds of cases, the claim a decision has a legal base in the aforementioned charter is bullshit. If laws are applied so selectively, they are not laws but political decisions, and IOC's entire existence is based on the notion of "sports is above politics". If it banned athletes every time there's a war, it would be in a permanent state of internal struggles between different camps and no competition ever would have taken place (look at UN).

Did any country invade another during the time of peace that is supposed to surround the Olympics in Paris? Because that is what the ban is about. If someone does that again and the IOC doesn't ban them, you can complain about selective enforcement.

ETA the other things people point out as being bad definitely are bad but they don't violate the Olympic Charter.

Wasn't the IOC ban more because of when Russia invaded?

Yep.

This made me curious, so I checked Wikipedia: of the six Olympic medalists in Paris, three were non-Europeans, including the men's champion (Egypt).

I don't think that's what Eurocentric means. If the OP meant European, that would have been said.

Dictionary definition:

1. focusing on European culture or history to the exclusion of a wider view of the world; implicitly regarding European culture as preeminent.
   "the classical, Eurocentric view of how mathematics developed"

 

[PRlady]

I hesitate to ask, but how on earth is this ban about racism? Or are you saying it's racist for Russia to be banned while another country (presumably Israel) is not?

Well, Russia’s victims are white and Israel's are not. Then there’s countries like Poland and the Baltics welcoming Ukrainian refugees while doing their damndest to keep Arabs and Africans out….

(Admin hat): this thread has gotten very PI but because it is rooted in an official decision about skating, will leave it here.

 

[MsZem]

Claiming not to be a Russian apologist while using a ridiculous defense for why Russia shouldn't be banned is hysterical. Almost as good as white people saying "it's not about race."

I think Andrey has been pretty clear that by the IOC's logic Russia should have been banned long ago (and morally - though not procedurally - their current ban is fine), while Belarus being banned is highly questionable.

Also, and very OT, Jews aren't really white and don't fall neatly into Euro/US-centric race categories.

 

[On My Own]

Did any country invade another during the time of peace that is supposed to surround the Olympics in Paris? Because that is what the ban is about. If someone does that again and the IOC doesn't ban them, you can complain about selective enforcement.

General Assembly resolution upholds the Olympic Truce

Ahead of the Summer Olympics in Paris next year, the UN General Assembly has urged countries to maintain the ancient Greek tradition of observing peace before, during and after the Games.

news.un.org

This follows the adoption on Tuesday of a resolution that calls for a cessation of hostilities globally starting seven days before the opening of the Olympic and Paralympic Games and ending seven days after they conclude.

Cessation of hostilities. If they're indeed moving goalposts and making it about "invasion" and not cessation, then they're indeed being hypocritical.

I'd love to see the IOC lump the USA/China/Israel/India/other powerful nations in with these bans, but then who would pay for the Olympics? They can only piss off one juggernaut nation at a time, and I'm so glad Russia drew short straw. I'm only sad we're going to be gaslit about the shit russian skating that will descend upon us again, with undeserved high scores and people who are apparently blind extoling the virtues of starved pre-teens competing against adults.

Well I respect that you're completely forward with your bias. Because this is basically me. I think if people have been waiting for Russia to be banned for one reason or the other, okay, me too tbh, but I cannot pretend it's due to some noble, non-hypocritical, objective reason.

 

[karmena]

I'm so over Russia and their apologists whining and complaining. The always the victim. Everyone hates them because they're the best. Russia should have been banned for doping ten years ago. They have no respect for anyone. Figure skating was so much more enjoyable without them

Yes, you are absolutely right. It IS nauseating. This whining and complaining, this Russian ARROGANCE is nauseating. But there is no one and nothing that change this. Nothing. No one. No discussions or anything else is going to help. Nothing can help. One has to be willing to see the truth, to be able to breath on their own, to think on their own but that ability is non existing. The powerful brain washing machine, created in soviet time, has never stopped or died. That mind set ( =Russian arrogance, resp, we are the best and it is why all the world hates us)is literally implanted in their minds with mother's milk and barely who is so strong- and willing-to face the truth, see the truth. On the other hand, Westerners naivety and inability to understand this, to understand Russian mind set backfire them and world in general. One cannot fight with the darkness, if there is a fight, the darkness eventually overtake the fighter too. And it s what is happening here. There are different means to overcome it.

Ha! eteri killed the beauty of figure skating, replacing it with point hunting gymnastics. and the rest of the world followed it, when to stand against it (=ignore) was a way to protect what really is a value. but it is not a topic here.

 

[On My Own]

It's really a lost war for the West, given what's been happening in Russia these past two years and is forecast to happen in the coming time

Really have to wonder what value is found in allies like those, for the west. They don't seem any less ideological than the evil Soviets... oh wait.

Ha! eteri killed the beauty of figure skating, replacing it with point hunting gymnastics. and the rest of the world followed it, when to stand against it (=ignore) was a way to protect what really is a value. but it is not a topic here.

Have you watched skating, like, ever, between 2006 and 2024?

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Claiming not to be a Russian apologist while using a ridiculous defense for why Russia shouldn't be banned is hysterical. Almost as good as white people saying "it's not about race."

I'd love to see the IOC lump the USA/China/Israel/India/other powerful nations in with these bans, but then who would pay for the Olympics? They can only piss off one juggernaut nation at a time, and I'm so glad Russia drew short straw. I'm only sad we're going to be gaslit about the shit russian skating that will descend upon us again, with undeserved high scores and people who are apparently blind extoling the virtues of starved pre-teens competing against adults.

(And I'll keep bleating from my couch across the world, because those I know and love who live in Ukraine deserve better than those brushing aside their interests because they buy Putin's BS that Ukraine is basically culturally Russian so this isn't a real invasion)

As I said, some people just live on a different planet, one on which the idea of "legal", or the way the international organization operate is very different from the Earth that I inhabit.

Or maybe they are just incredibly dumb.

Did any country invade another during the time of peace that is supposed to surround the Olympics in Paris? Because that is what the ban is about. If someone does that again and the IOC doesn't ban them, you can complain about selective enforcement.

How about Russia, twice - in 2008 and 2014?
And that is just from the most recent and most obvious place. Even ignoring everything that happened before WWII, there have been several instances of different countries starting different military agressions close or during Olympic games.

Not to mention that the charter talks about general pause of hostilities, and not specifically starting them, so every single war between two recognized states falls under that defintion, including, but not limited to: Iran-Iraq, Iraq-Kuwait, Israel-Syria/Lebanon/Egypt/Yemen, Armenia-Azerbaijan, Turkey invading Syria, every adventure of US/USSR in the ME, Balkan wars, invasions of USSR to Hungary, Poland and Czechoslovakia, countless African wars, some of the violent decolonizations in Africa and Asia, India-Pakistan... And these are only the ones I know without googling, how many others there are that are just not in my sphere of interest...

NONE of these, including the same Russia, caused a ban. The losing side was banned after WWI and WWII, with no relation to Olympics timing. But no, let's pretend everything is squeeky clean, consistent and there's nothing wrong with abusing the legal system in order to achieve a morally desirable result (and when I say "morally", obviously we mean a very specific moral, because morality is not universal, especially in relation to political events).

Well, Russia’s victims are white and Israel's are not. Then there’s countries like Poland and the Baltics welcoming Ukrainian refugees while doing their damndest to keep Arabs and Africans out….

(Admin hat): this thread has gotten very PI but because it is rooted in an official decision about skating, will leave it here.

Are you for real? Did a BBC journalist bite you or something?

Israel is not banned because it is backed by the US and some European countries. Obviously I also think the situation in Israel/Gaza is incomparable in any sensible way to Russia attacking Ukraine, either legally or morally, but it has nothing to do with how IOC or any other international body, pretending to be above politics, operates.

Also, some 60% of the Israeli Jews are genetically indistinguishable from the Arabs, but let's not make well known facts in any way distract us. Importing the US racial issues and projecting them on every country, region and conflict in the world is the national sport after all.

 

[On My Own]

Importing the US racial issues and projecting them on every country, region and conflict in the world is the national sport after all.

While this is not false, it's also simultaneously true that we're talking about international politics, and with the amount of influence US has, those racial issues do seep into the rest of the world, on a macroscopic level.

This is not to say that you are oppressing Palestinians because you're Jewish as is the simplified narrative because of that US academia projecting US issues onto I/P, but there certainly is a lot to be said about how much violence in the middle east and the obliviousness towards it from western countries can be viewed through this simple lens.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

While this is not false, it's also simultaneously true that we're talking about international politics, and with the amount of influence US has, those racial issues do seep into the rest of the world, on a macroscopic level.

This is not to say that you are oppressing Palestinians because you're Jewish as is the simplified narrative because of that US academia projecting US issues onto I/P, but there certainly is a lot to be said about how much violence in the middle east and the obliviousness towards it from western countries can be viewed through this simple lens.

US academia is populated by ignorant idiots, but it doesn't have a lot to do with international organizations, such as IOC. The fact is, the only reason why Russia was banned in 2022 but not in 2014 or 2008, not to mention why no one else was banned more or less ever, is not racial but rather cultural. This was a full scale war with tanks and planes in Europe, very reminiscent of WWII and striking the same chord. Therefore the reaction was so extreme, and even "politically neutral" bodies, such as IOC felt the need to take a side. And not just IOC; let's not forget that all these bodies live off funding, and the lion share of funding comes from US, EU and UK, with these countries getting a nominally bigger weight than others.

It doesn't change the fact that Russia got a special treatment under bullshit excuse with complete lack of consistency even vis a vis the same Russia several years earlier. So if I may:

so there's nothing surprising that they are now being brought back under a bullshit excuse with bullshit conditions that will be applied in a bullshit way

Anyone who thinks no Russians should be allowed, same as those who thinks all Russian should be allowed, same as everyone in between, are now rightfully pissed at this nonsense. Because an international organization must act within the legal frame and not within the frame of "what the majority of the Western public feels is morally right at this specific moment".

 

[On My Own]

Well you're not wrong that, as long as the questions about the other hostilities are left unanswered, this will simply seem like an uneven, hypocritical application of rules.

And it's really not about Russia there, to me, which I hope I'm clear about. There are many countries that should be questioning where their justice is.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

I personally think, IOC should be above national and international politics, because once you start questioning "why this but not the other" it will never end, and will produce some absolutely outrageous results. For political circus you have the UN, and that's where it should end.

IOC must act within its legal frame, agreed by everyone, including "the bad guys". The doping ban was fully justified and legal. The war one is bullshit. If competing with Russians is so unbearable to all these nations, they had every right and privilege to boycott the competitions with Russians, effectively causing the Russians to withdraw or halting normal sport life for a period of time, case in point Olympics of 1980 and 1984. We as the spectators have the right not to clap or not to watch the Russian athletes. There's no right to bend the laws and apply the rules selectively based on the current "correct" agenda as defined by a selected small group of nations.

 

[On My Own]

I personally think, IOC should be above national and international politics, because once you start questioning "why this but not the other" it will never end, and will produce some absolutely outrageous results. For political circus you have the UN, and that's where it should end.

Well, to my original post on this. How many Americans here would say "let's ban America for Oct 7 war accomplicity"?

I'll go ahead and guess zero.

 

[DreamSkates]

False. Russian skaters who have publicly supported the overthrow of Putin and who condemned Russia army and veterans can seek to qualify .

Likely few since citizens there are expected to support Putin and at least adults who do not, can be arrested.

 

[PRlady]

As I said, some people just live on a different planet, one on which the idea of "legal", or the way the international organization operate is very different from the Earth that I inhabit.

Or maybe they are just incredibly dumb.


How about Russia, twice - in 2008 and 2014?
And that is just from the most recent and most obvious place. Even ignoring everything that happened before WWII, there have been several instances of different countries starting different military agressions close or during Olympic games.

Not to mention that the charter talks about general pause of hostilities, and not specifically starting them, so every single war between two recognized states falls under that defintion, including, but not limited to: Iran-Iraq, Iraq-Kuwait, Israel-Syria/Lebanon/Egypt/Yemen, Armenia-Azerbaijan, Turkey invading Syria, every adventure of US/USSR in the ME, Balkan wars, invasions of USSR to Hungary, Poland and Czechoslovakia, countless African wars, some of the violent decolonizations in Africa and Asia, India-Pakistan... And these are only the ones I know without googling, how many others there are that are just not in my sphere of interest...

NONE of these, including the same Russia, caused a ban. The losing side was banned after WWI and WWII, with no relation to Olympics timing. But no, let's pretend everything is squeeky clean, consistent and there's nothing wrong with abusing the legal system in order to achieve a morally desirable result (and when I say "morally", obviously we mean a very specific moral, because morality is not universal, especially in relation to political events).


Are you for real? Did a BBC journalist bite you or something?

Israel is not banned because it is backed by the US and some European countries. Obviously I also think the situation in Israel/Gaza is incomparable in any sensible way to Russia attacking Ukraine, either legally or morally, but it has nothing to do with how IOC or any other international body, pretending to be above politics, operates.

Also, some 60% of the Israeli Jews are genetically indistinguishable from the Arabs, but let's not make well known facts in any way distract us. Importing the US racial issues and projecting them on every country, region and conflict in the world is the national sport after all.

Oh come on. I was giving an answer, not my answer, to Private Citizen about why some people think there’s racism involved in only banning Russia - i.e. their victims are white Europeans. I didn’t think I had to clarify that I don’t think that is the reason Russia is banned, or if so it’s very minor, but as usual you’d rather hijack the thread with long tirades.

 

[caseyedwards]

Likely few since citizens there are expected to support Putin and at least adults who do not, can be arrested.

This is what the isu wants discussed in Russia.

 

[On My Own]

Oh come on. I was giving an answer, not my answer, to Private Citizen about why some people think there’s racism involved in only banning Russia - i.e. their victims are white Europeans. I didn’t think I had to clarify that I don’t think that is the reason Russia is banned, or if so it’s very minor, but as usual you’d rather hijack the thread with long tirades.

Although it does seem strange to see the salient points that have been brought up not be addressed.

1. Was it because of the invasion specifically, which isn't what the Olympic Truce is?
2. If it was about hostility, and some are arguing that just because it wasn't done in the past doesn't mean it shouldn't be done in the present/future, is it okay to say then it's still an anomaly, seeing that, you know, Israel, as an example, didn't cease hostilities during the Paris Olympics?
3. Should America have been banned along with Israel from Paris Olympics and future Olympics because it is an accomplice of Israel (and what is the IOC's power in determining what an "accomplice" is)?

I'll add one more. Seeing that some on this forum are more than happy to retroactively take medals back from evil Russia and evil China, can we retroactively apply the Olympic Truce onto some offending countries and take their medals back? I especially want this because it'd be fun to see, like, Brunei winning 10 OGMs in swimming or something.

 

[MacMadame]

Cessation of hostilities. If they're indeed moving goalposts and making it about "invasion" and not cessation, then they're indeed being hypocritical.

Invasions are hostile. I cannot believe you are seriously arguing that invading a country within the period where there are supposed to be no hostilities doesn't count for .... reasons.

 

[On My Own]

I cannot believe you are seriously arguing that invading a country within the period where there are supposed to be no hostilities doesn't count for .... reasons.

I cannot believe that you are still incapable of reading simple English, because that's not what I said. Like, ever.

Here, this is aimed at you:

2. If it was about hostility, and some are arguing that just because it wasn't done in the past doesn't mean it shouldn't be done in the present/future, is it okay to say then it's still an anomaly, seeing that, you know, Israel, as an example, didn't cease hostilities during the Paris Olympics?

3. Should America have been banned along with Israel from Paris Olympics and future Olympics because it is an accomplice of Israel (and what is the IOC's power in determining what an "accomplice" is)?

Care to explain whether this applies to Israel/America? And if not, why?

 

[On My Own]

Here's what cessation means, BTW:

the fact or process of ending or being brought to an end.

Neither Andrey nor I is arguing about Russia not deserving to be banned based off this supposed rule. However, if it's about cessation of hostilities and not specifically invading a country during the Olympics (which, you know, would be more extreme and also more specific) is Russia the only culprit?

This is not such a very difficult question, one that mind you I've backed up with a news article earlier in the thread. The reason behind why it never got applied to other countries may vary according to any one poster on here, but the answer of how many countries this has been applied to is, you know, factual.