Valieva Banned for Four Years, Effective December 25, 2021

[Private Citizen]

Can you elaborate on why the bronze is questionable? I’m confused over that.

The arguments are in this thread. There are essentially three:

1. DQ the entire team because one of the athletes doped (Outcome: Canada gets bronze, Russia disqualified)
2. DQ only Valieva, zero out her points, move everyone up in the women's standings (Outcome: Canada gets bronze, Russia fourth)
3. DQ only Valieva, zero out her points, but leave the points as-is (Outcome: Russia gets bronze, Canada fourth)

I think the argument for 3) is weak, but that won't stop Russia from making it or holding things up in court.

 

[Judy]

The arguments are in this thread. There are essentially three:

1. DQ the entire team because one of the athletes doped (Outcome: Canada gets bronze, Russia disqualified)
2. DQ only Valieva, zero out her points, move everyone up in the women's standings (Outcome: Canada gets bronze, Russia fourth)
3. DQ only Valieva, zero out her points, but leave the points as-is (Outcome: Russia gets bronze, Canada fourth)

I think the argument for 3) is weak, but that won't stop Russia from making it or holding things up in court.

Ok .. I think I understand.

 

[skategal]

The arguments are in this thread. There are essentially three:

1. DQ the entire team because one of the athletes doped (Outcome: Canada gets bronze, Russia disqualified)
2. DQ only Valieva, zero out her points, move everyone up in the women's standings (Outcome: Canada gets bronze, Russia fourth)
3. DQ only Valieva, zero out her points, but leave the points as-is (Outcome: Russia gets bronze, Canada fourth)

I think the argument for 3) is weak, but that won't stop Russia from making it or holding things up in court.

Yeah I think there would be a lot of mental gymnastics going into option 3.

Doesn’t mean that Russia won’t try it and ISU won’t go for it though.

But it would be a real slap in the face to the Canadian Fed which is also a big Fed in the ISU.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Yep, and now her medals will look like this
2022 bronze
2023 silver
2024 gold

That is also a nice bit of money, and removing Valieva would also bump up Scherbakova, Trusova, Kurakova, Ryabova, and Gubanova into the Top six. I can’t find the prize money communication right now, but at least the top six get cash.

The 2022 Euros medal would be replaced in some way, since the organizing committees are responsible for making them, and I don’t know if they keep extras just in case, and the cash should be paid by the ISU, which is responsible for championship prize money. Whether they’d get anything back from Russia is their business: I don’t know if the just hold onto to Scherbakova’s and Trusova’s incremental prize money and tell them to redistribute Valieva’s, or if they’d have to treat the clawback and the new prize money separately.

Other athletes might get money/more money from their NOC’s based on bumped up placement. Did anyone lose a chance to participate in Beijing because their Euros results were one spot below their NOC’s requirements? Or lose or get reduced funding? At least Estonia didn’t lose a spot for the 2023 Euros.

I think the German athletes lost funding based on their team performance. Would they get funding reinstated if Russia is disqualified?

 

[Judy]

I was thinking it would be more like “We offer you unlimited TimBits and a personal meet and greet with Justin Trudeau.”

Don’t laugh! My cousin’s son son won several Special Olympics medals including a gold and they were given the royal treatment.

I remember saying to my cousin his dad - it’s not like you or I have ever won an Olympic medal.

They def got a ton of media attention here too and a huge welcome back at the airport too.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I doubt they will DQ the whole team because Germany/Ukraine competed with 3 disciplines in SP. With the M, P, D earning 26 pts in the SP, Russia would still have qualified for the LP round.

It's not a question of if they could have competed with only 3 athletes. In other team sports, a DQ for one athlete is a DQ for the team. See the example of the 2000 women's gymnastics team event. Dong Fangxiao was found to be underage after the fact. They didn't simply delete her results and recalculate the team event scores as if she wasn't there (even though that is possible in gymnastics). They DQed the whole team. The team COULD have competed without her, but that didn't come into play. She competed and a team with an ineligible athlete is fully DQed.

 

[Bulletsdad]

Valievas test from the Olympics were clean

What is going on asymmetrical warfare against Russia

Yes, because Eteri and Company were back to the correct dosing schedule to avoid detection.

 

[kittyjake5]

Great news. I am doing my happy dance

 

[Rob]

Covid isn't doping.

But DQ is the same result as didn't skate. I doubt they will leave 4th place open/unawarded in ladies; everyone will move up a spot.

 

[caseyedwards]

Yes, because Eteri and Company were back to the correct dosing schedule to avoid detection.

Proof?

 

[Karen-W]

I think the German athletes lost funding based on their team performance. Would they get funding reinstated if Russia is disqualified?

No. The same 5 teams that made the TE FS segment would have made it even with Russia getting 0 for Valieva in the SP. Germany still would have finished 10th and German gov't funding is contingent on finishing 8th or higher.

 

[Bulletsdad]

Proof?

Grandpa has the proof in his backwash.

 

[Vagabond]

I don’t know if the just hold onto to Scherbakova’s and Trusova’s incremental prize money and tell them to redistribute Valieva’s

Oh, how I would love to be a fly on the wall when Shcherbakova and Trusova made this suggestion to Valieva!

 

[Habs]

I'm just waiting for it to sink in to @Private Citizen that Alexa Knierim and Karen Chen are going to forever be Olympic CHAMPIONS.

And if Canada gets the bronze..... Roman Sadovsky is an Olympic medalist.

 

[barbk]

Agreed. Certainly the US and Japan will be upgraded. The question becomes how hard does Bach try to bend over to appease Russia.

I really think we won't see a medal ceremony until Boston Worlds next year or even Milano-Cortina. I'd love it if it was settled by Paris this summer though.

I thought the release said this was left up to the sports federation (ISU)?

 

[Karen-W]

I thought the release said this was left up to the sports federation (ISU)?

Sure, but the IOC has to approve whatever the ISU recommends. Don't think there won't be/haven't been private conversations between the ISU and IOC on this.

 

[Mugs]

Valievas test from the Olympics were clean

What is going on asymmetrical warfare against Russia

Valieva's test results from the Russian Nationals were positive for TMZ. Thus she should have never been at the Olympics to give a "clean" sample. Why don't you create your own thread whining about the terrible injustice that has been heaped upon poor Valieva and the esteemed Russian Empire

 

[Lynn226]

There’s a lovely competition in Montreal coming up. Great time for a medal ceremony

Agreed. If it's not settled until the summer, then they could receive their medals in Paris. It would be an Olympic venue and there could be a special ceremony.

 

[danafan]

Skate Canada statement https://www.instagram.com/p/C2sLjM6rEZ-/?igsh=MWNsMmJsbGJiaGM0YQ==

 

[Private Citizen]

It's not a question of if they could have competed with only 3 athletes. In other team sports, a DQ for one athlete is a DQ for the team. See the example of the 2000 women's gymnastics team event. Dong Fangxiao was found to be underage after the fact. They didn't simply delete her results and recalculate the team event scores as if she wasn't there (even though that is possible in gymnastics). They DQed the whole team. The team COULD have competed without her, but that didn't come into play. She competed and a team with an ineligible athlete is fully DQed.

Anything other than a full DQ of the ROC team would set an odd precedent that could potentially cause flip-flops in future cases. E.g., imagine a hypothetical case where Japan was ahead of the US by one point and the order of finish in both the women's short and free was Japan, Russia, USA. Recalculating points without Russia would cause a flip-flop and vault USA ahead of Japan.

I think the least dangerous option is to leave the points as-is, but fully disqualify RUS. If they start meddling with recalculating points, there could be a future situation where literally the entire podium changes and teams find themselves jumping or dropping two or more spots after a DQ.

 

[Rob]

It's not a question of if they could have competed with only 3 athletes. In other team sports, a DQ for one athlete is a DQ for the team. See the example of the 2000 women's gymnastics team event. Dong Fangxiao was found to be underage after the fact. They didn't simply delete her results and recalculate the team event scores as if she wasn't there (even though that is possible in gymnastics). They DQed the whole team. The team COULD have competed without her, but that didn't come into play. She competed and a team with an ineligible athlete is fully DQed.

That would make me perfectly happy, but I still think all the other ladies should get 1 pts added to the score and not leave the 10 unawarded.

 

[thvu]

Skate Canada statement https://www.instagram.com/p/C2sLjM6rEZ-/?igsh=MWNsMmJsbGJiaGM0YQ==

What a safe, generic statement that still avoids advocating for its athletes.

 

[Vagabond]

And if Canada gets the bronze..... Roman Sadovsky is an Olympic medalist.

Consistency pays off!

 

[Judy]

Anyways I definitely didn’t expect to hear this today. Some great news though.

 

[Hedwig]

Very glad that justice has been done. And we never expected this with all the Russian blackwashing whiny bots.

Now I wonder what would be the harder lemon to taste: no medal at all or to be officially awarded the bronce medal and having to stand on the third place when they „all“* believe that rules don’t apply and they should be gold medallists.

*of course not all since there will be some sensible people in Russia but having heard over the last two years too much and too many bots proclaiming to absolute claims about superiority in every sense on top of them thinking they can just invade a sovereign country if and when they feel like it plus their absolute negligence with doping I have less than Zero compassion left for most of Russia

 

[coppertop1]

The Russians and their trolls and bots are going to be crying now. Oh well

 

[Rukia]

What a safe, generic statement that still avoids advocating for its athletes.

someone call the canadian knitters and have them put some stronger wording into a scarf or something

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think the least dangerous option is to leave the points as-is, but fully disqualify RUS.

That allows a team to be a blocker for another team.

 

[Colonel Green]

What a safe, generic statement that still avoids advocating for its athletes.

I would assume they’re trying to avoid appearing self-interested in their initial public statement. The ISU’s decision on the event hasn’t happened yet, they’re obviously going to be making their opinion very clear on that.

 

[On My Own]

So they shouldn’t fight for a medal because they didn’t skate their best, but it was better than the teams that finished behind them?

I had no idea I had said this.

Can you point out where I did?

Actually, don't bother. I'll just say, this part of it is where I genuinely can't be bothered with the rest of it, because I'm sure it'll be a lot of back and forth about this and that and how the medals matter more than anything else, in a way that's disguised as being "for fairness" but is just pointless nationalism. I got what I wanted (the ban for Valieva). The rest? Don't care. As amazing as it will be to see Nathan being 2OGM just so fans can suck it.