Valieva Banned for Four Years, Effective December 25, 2021

[BittyBug]

Am I correct in understanding that countries can compete in the team event without entries in all four disciplines?

From https://isu.org/docman-documents-li...tion-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file:

D.3.2 Each Team must participate in at least three (3) disciplines(Women Single Skating/Men Single Skating/Pair Skating/IceDance) of the Team Event.

Based on this, I could see an argument for just zeroing out Valieva's score and giving Russia the bronze.

 

[coppertop1]

They should investigate all of Sambo from the start. How far does this go back?

 

[Firedancer]

Am I correct in understanding that countries can compete in the team event without entries in all four disciplines?

From https://isu.org/docman-documents-li...tion-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file:



Based on this, I could see an argument for just zeroing out Valieva's score and giving Russia the bronze.

Yes. But if you move all the women up a spot once you zero out Valieva, I believe they drop to 4th

 

[honey]

Am I correct in understanding that countries can compete in the team event without entries in all four disciplines?

From https://isu.org/docman-documents-li...tion-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file:



Based on this, I could see an argument for just zeroing out Valieva's score and giving Russia the bronze.

Am I wrong in saying though that the math is that if they give her 0 and then redistribute the points (ie Japan gets 10 instead of 9, Canada gets 9 instead of 8), then Canada gets bronze? I thought that was the math? Is that not right?

 

[Lanie]

They should investigate all of Sambo from the start. How far does this go back?

A long time.

 

[Firedancer]

Christine Brennan’s story with quotes from USADA

Russian skater Kamila Valieva banned four years over doping, ending 2022 Olympic drama

The Kamila Valieva decision comes nearly two years after the skater led Russia to the gold in the Olympic team event in Beijing in 2022.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Rukia]

I'd bet Canada is politely calling all their ISU contacts right now to suggest they 0 out Valieva's score lol

 

[binbinwinwin]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnastics_at_the_2000_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_artistic_team_all-around

The closest thing we have is in 2000 where one athlete was underage and the entire result was nullified

 

[coppertop1]

A long time.

I wonder say at least 2918-19, when we started to see the Russian quadsters. Probably longer

 

[caseyedwards]

They should investigate all of Sambo from the start. How far does this go back?

No evidence to support this whatsoever

 

[caseyedwards]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnastics_at_the_2000_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_artistic_team_all-around

The closest thing we have is in 2000 where one athlete was underage and the entire result was nullified

No the closest thing is the team kept the medal with Romania

 

[Firedancer]

I wonder say at least 2918-19, when we started to see the Russian quadsters. Probably longer

I would guess closer to 2014

 

[Lanie]

I wonder say at least 2918-19, when we started to see the Russian quadsters. Probably longer

Sochi for sure.

 

[caseyedwards]

You can see where this is going. Taking medals away from every eteri skater

 

[On My Own]

I'd bet Canada is politely calling all their ISU contacts right now to suggest they 0 out Valieva's score lol

Problem isn't just zeroing out, as was pointed out it's that the rest of the women should also be bumped up. So it's more of an issue of "remove her points" versus "pretend she never skated".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gym...r_Olympics_–_Women's_artistic_team_all-around

The closest thing we have is in 2000 where one athlete was underage and the entire result was nullified

It was pointed out in the previous thread that Chinese WAG have a much more abusive history to them, and they pretty much don't have a choice in their country and within their fed - in stark contrast to Valieva who's been mouthing off about her being a "victim". For me, they really need to push for Russia as a whole to be disqualified, but I don't think it will be.

 

[BittyBug]

Yes. But if you move all the women up a spot once you zero out Valieva, I believe they drop to 4th

Am I wrong in saying though that the math is that if they give her 0 and then redistribute the points (ie Japan gets 10 instead of 9, Canada gets 9 instead of 8), then Canada gets bronze? I thought that was the math? Is that not right?

LOL I didn't do the math but assumed it worked out based on people speculating that Russia might end up with bronze. So what's the calculation that would lead to Russia getting the bronze?

 

[On My Own]

You can see where this is going. Taking medals away from every eteri skater

And what about it? They are terrible skaters, and there's no way I believe their "jumps" weren't being held up with drugs and glue on their backs.

 

[airgelaal]

European for Hendrickx!

Yep, and now her medals will look like this
2022 bronze
2023 silver
2024 gold

 

[On My Own]

LOL I didn't do the math but assumed it worked out based on people speculating that Russia might end up with bronze. So what's the calculation that would lead to Russia getting the bronze?

Zero them out but don't bump the other women up.

 

[BittyBug]

Zero them out but don't bump the other women up.

Thanks. I can't see that as a reasonable option, because of the way point are awarded. If her skate is invalidated, then whoever was 2nd is now 1st, 3rd is now 2nd, etc.

 

[binbinwinwin]

No the closest thing is the team kept the medal with Romania

Raducan's test results from team and vault were clean, her samples from the individual all around were the ones which tested positive.

 

[Rukia]

Problem isn't just zeroing out, as was pointed out it's that the rest of the women should also be bumped up. So it's more of an issue of "remove her points" versus "pretend she never skated".

How do you zero out her score without recalculating the places? I guess I see this as 2 different things. They can disqualify her score and just have a null there and that's how Russia ends with the bronze or they can give them 0 points for that and recalculate everyone's scores which is what they should do.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'd bet Canada is politely calling all their ISU contacts right now to suggest they 0 out Valieva's score lol

"We have knitting needles, and we know how to use them."

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I see Canada jumping in harder on this now that they have a guilty for Valieva and a medal is on the line.

 

[manhn]

What’s the point of a team event if none of the other teammates are affected?

 

[Dobre]

A Raducan comparison clearly isn't an accurate one at this point in time. Valieva has been banned for 4 years, dating back to December 2021.

 

[danafan]

CBC article assumes USA upgraded to gold and speculates Canada will get bronze.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/winter/figure-skating/olympics-figure-skating-valieva-doping-case-1.7097751

 

[Vagabond]

What’s the point of a team event if none of the other teammates are affected?

To put it another way, what is a team if it doesn't stand or fall as one?

 

[Judy]

I’m sorry I can’t see this as a win at all. So you mean to tell me that it’s the minor and ONLY the minor who gets punished? Do they really expect us to believe that a 15 year old was acquiring and doping herself with multiple heart medications?? How is it justice when Eteri & Co get to carry on like normal? The only winner in this situation is Eteri who will continue to show up at competitions, continue to coach and be around minors and will also start to act like Kamila doesn’t exist anymore. How exactly is this fair?? And that’s not to say Kamila shouldn’t be punished she absolutely should be, she just shouldn’t be the ONLY one punished.

The drugs are a result of Russia giving the athletes no choice. I don’t think she is still skating? Correct me if I’m wrong though.

 

[Karen-W]

Am I correct in understanding that countries can compete in the team event without entries in all four disciplines?

From https://isu.org/docman-documents-li...tion-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file:



Based on this, I could see an argument for just zeroing out Valieva's score and giving Russia the bronze.

Yes. But if you move all the women up a spot once you zero out Valieva, I believe they drop to 4th

Am I wrong in saying though that the math is that if they give her 0 and then redistribute the points (ie Japan gets 10 instead of 9, Canada gets 9 instead of 8), then Canada gets bronze? I thought that was the math? Is that not right?

@honey and @Firedancer are correct that zeroing out Valieva's points and giving every other woman an additional point to the SP and FS results is what would happen if it's treated as though Russia did not have anyone competing in the TE Women (see the Men's and Pairs SP results where GER & UKR had no entrants respectively). In that scenario, the points and results would look like this:

	Men SP	Women SP	Pairs SP	Dance RD	Sub-Total	Men FS	Women FS	Pairs FS	Dance FD	Total
CAN	3	9	6	7	25	6	9	7	8	55
CZE	4	4	3	5	16
CHN	5	2	10	6	23	7	7	8	7	52
GEO	7	8	5	3	23
GER	2	6	0	1	9
ITA	6	3	4	8	21
JPN	9	10	7	4	30	10	10	9	6	65
ROC	8	0	9	9	26	9	0	10	9	54
UKR	0	5	2	2	9
USA	10	7	8	10	35	8	8	6	10	67

Gold - USA
Silver - JPN
Bronze - CAN
4th - RUS
5th - CHN

6th - GEO
7th - ITA
8th - CZE
9th - UKR
10th - GER

What Russia will certainly advocate for is just deleting Valieva's points and not redistributing the rest of the Women's points as if they had no entrant in the event. In that scenario, Russia would hold onto bronze:

	Men SP	Women SP	Pairs SP	Dance RD	Sub-Total	Men FS	Women FS	Pairs FS	Dance FD	Total
CAN	3	8	6	7	24	6	8	7	8	53
CZE	4	3	3	5	15
CHN	5	1	10	6	22	7	6	8	7	50
GEO	7	7	5	3	22
GER	2	5	0	1	8
ITA	6	2	4	8	20
JPN	9	9	7	4	29	10	9	9	6	63
ROC	8	0	9	9	26	9	0	10	9	54
UKR	0	4	2	2	8
USA	10	6	8	10	34	8	7	6	10	65

My expectation is that now we WILL see the Canadian Olympic Committee advocate for their athletes. Hopefully. They deserve that bronze medal.