The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

[thvu]

With Demougeot / Le Mercier in senior and Fradji / Fourneaux in junior, she is not dismissable any more.
Plus Dupayage / Nabais, plus that memorable Swan Lake program from Koch / Melnyk (still to be skated perfectly but it is sooo much fun), plus the others.

If anyone hasn't seen Koch & Melnyk's Swan Lake FD, it's a must watch. Their choreo steps (at about 2:06) are possibly the best element of the season. It will make you look at what's coming out of the NA ice dance schools and just sigh out of boredom.

 

[PRlady]

I remember that now. What a shame about the ending but yes that’s a very cool program.

 

[deegee]

If anyone hasn't seen Koch & Melnyk's Swan Lake FD, it's a must watch. Their choreo steps (at about 2:06) are possibly the best element of the season. It will make you look at what's coming out of the NA ice dance schools and just sigh out of boredom.

shades of khokhlova & novitski's fantastic 'a night on bald mountain' fd:

- YouTube

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youtu.be

 

[chantilly]

I thought the choreo steps were goofy.
I’m not seeing what some of you are seeing.

 

[VGThuy]

I thought the choreo steps were goofy.
I’m not seeing what some of you are seeing.

Yeah I didn’t like the program that much either. It was slow and labored and I didn’t really see anything amazing choreographically. But I loved the story and I say the more ice dance centers that strive to have a different point of view, the better.

 

[thvu]

I thought the choreo steps were goofy.
I’m not seeing what some of you are seeing.

Originality, musicality, danceability, theme in their choreographic motifs. There's also the clever use of change of direction with the series of low spread eagles. I think it's absolutely brilliant.

 

[sap5]

Why aren't we seeing more choreographical diversity in ice dance? There are so many good dance choreographers out there. I understand that choreographing for the ice is different than for the floor, but that doesn't mean it can't be done -- we've seen it done well many times before.

 

[VGThuy]

Why aren't we seeing more choreographical diversity in ice dance? There are so many good dance choreographers out there. I understand that choreographing for the ice is different than for the floor, but that doesn't mean it can't be done -- we've seen it done well many times before.

IJS itemization and level requirements.

 

[sap5]

IJS itemization and level requirements.

I'm not buying this. The requirements are less stringent now than in the past, so if anything, it should be easier to do.

 

[VGThuy]

I'm not buying this. The requirements are less stringent now than in the past, so if anything, it should be easier to do.

It’s still there. Even the choreographic steps have to go from one prescribed part of the rink and they all have go in the same direction and are restricted in terms of movement or risk being not counted as being completed. There’s only so many choreographic lift, twizzle, sliding, and spin variations. The possibilities with Lifts and spins seem endless but when you start seeing them all you just see them as “lifts” and “spins” ultimately.

 

[litenkyckling]

I'm not buying this. The requirements are less stringent now than in the past, so if anything, it should be easier to do.

I agree - plus off ice choreographers can create programmes and ice dance technical coaches can alter them to make them legal

 

[Nmsis]

Why aren't we seeing more choreographical diversity in ice dance? There are so many good dance choreographers out there. I understand that choreographing for the ice is different than for the floor, but that doesn't mean it can't be done -- we've seen it done well many times before.

Because this is ice dance, and at the senior international level, choreographers don' t do the stuff they want to.
They choreograph what the judges want to see, so the dancers get happy supporting judges.

And coaches do prefer happy judges.
So they tend to pre-think what the judges will like, ie stuff they have already liked in the past.

And judges are used to be listened to so when someone says "I"ll still do my stuff", they might go .
And then everything gets stuck.

 

[chantilly]

I find the bemoaning of the lack of choreography interesting to say the least.

What are people lacking or not seeing that they want to see?

At least with the absence of P/C we aren’t seeing a boatload of lyrical programs.

I’m on the fence about the loss of the patterns.

I do probably agree that they should have remained in the RD. But I don’t miss the CD’s one iota.

But I find the choreographic additions have been great for Ice Dance.

They’re many times engaging, cool, fun and each team finds a different way to implement them.

The real problem is the scoring.

The lack of points differential in levels is way more of an issue IMO.

And as many have said the GOES need more parameters in being rewarded.

I’ll admit I find the rules mind boggling to decipher and so correct me if I’m wrong, but GOE’s need to be maxed out according to levels if they aren’t.

And I’ve said it many times but lifts are way too easy to get a level 4.

If pretty much every team can get a level 4, then that level is too easy to acquire.

I saw a few level 3 lifts during the GP so far, but not many.

Anyhoo I’m not in love with a lot of the programs this year, but definitely think there’s tons of diversity

 

[Icetalavista]

I was startled to read that Fear and Gibson (due to Gibson starting ice dance relatively late) had to learn the CD for the season fresh each season. Perfect demonstration of the ISU trend away from compulsories. I too would like to see a combined CD/OSP, yep, OSP, introduced. It would force skaters to be versatile, and we have gotten great choreography from OSPs.

I have to wonder if the judges got sick of PapCiz-style introverted, 'pure skating' programs, and wanted just flat-out entertainment, a la Fear Gibson. If so, we're in for a flashy quad. How about a bit of balance, judges?

I have to compare the Sheffield Grand Prix scheduling to the year the Oscars scheduled the actor award last in order to honor Boseman...and then Anthony Hopkins won. What if Gui/Fab win? Awkward. just sayin'.

The thing that most bothers me about dance isn't new. It's the lack of movement between rhythm and free dances (except, this season, for the flukey movement in Skate America standings!). Honestly, do teams do ALL skills equally well? So they should stay in the same order in both segments? if so, why have 2 segments?
end of blather

 

[litenkyckling]

I think Dance is the one discipline that really is worse off for the new skating order system - go back to a draw for the free please!! If judges score GOE and PCS based on when you skate in the order then this clearly isn’t a fair system.

 

[skatingguy]

I was startled to read that Fear and Gibson (due to Gibson starting ice dance relatively late) had to learn the CD for the season fresh each season. Perfect demonstration of the ISU trend away from compulsories. I too would like to see a combined CD/OSP, yep, OSP, introduced. It would force skaters to be versatile, and we have gotten great choreography from OSPs.

That's because Lewis transferred into ice dance relatively late in his competitive skating career. He was a free skater until he was 22. It has nothing to do with the ISU.

 

[sap5]

That's because Lewis transferred into ice dance relatively late in his competitive skating career. He was a free skater until he was 22. It has nothing to do with the ISU.

Also, certain CDs weren’t encountered until a team became senior anyway, so there were always times when senior teams were learning CDs fresh every season.

 

[VGThuy]

Yeah. In the past, ice dance teams had to prepare 2-3 compulsories a season and when competitions started only having one CD, they would draw one of the 2-3 prescribed CDs. It was just unusual that medal contenders wouldn’t have had at least cycled through them before becoming medal contenders as seniors (except if you were a Soviet team in the 1980s and Russian in the 1990s) but at the advent of IJS, young teams started to be able to become medal contenders at an unprecedented earlier rate. Then with the SD, it was just one pattern that needed to be practiced a season, so it took longer for teams to cycle through pattern dances and combine that with younger teams being able to compete, this is what we have.

 

[platniumangel]

I feel like the younger teams have more interesting choreography than some of the older teams. Check out Taylorson & Peng in Intermediate Dance FD - silver medal. Creative choreography and talented kids! Love watching the up and coming talent.

2023 Eastern Sectional - Intermediate Free Dance

Video: 2023 Eastern Sectional - Intermediate Free Dance. Figure Skating

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[Sylvia]

In reply to @Belsornia:

Is there any news on Mazingue/Gaidajenko of Estonia? They haven’t competed yet this season and I don’t recall seeing them on any start lists either.

Mazingue shared a (scary) update yesterday in French: https://www.instagram.com/p/CkyOB4nDCLM/

Solene wrote that the week before CS Finlandia Trophy she had a very bad fall, hit her head and had to go into emergency surgery. She says that she plans to keep us updated via social media.

 

[Icetalavista]

My meaning was that Gibson had no incentive to learn > than the current compulsory for the season once he began dance since the ISU seemed to be watering down compulsories' impact on scoring by putting it in the rhythm or short dance instead of in its' own segment. And he has no incentive at all to learn them after they removed them entirely. He is still a great skater. Compulsory judging could of course be as political as any part of dance, but even a no-technik viewer like me could see obvious quality differences between couples - speed, size of pattern, depth of lobe, etc. At least in singles, skaters still have to work on the edges they used to work on in compulsories, in order to get > points for footwork. And of course to get a more solid foundation for jumps, spins, stroking, and speed. Good dance coaches can teach good edges w/o compulsories, but I still think they are a good tool to differentiate between teams.

 

[Debbie S]

My meaning was that Gibson had no incentive to learn > than the current compulsory for the season once he began dance since the ISU seemed to be watering down compulsories' impact on scoring by putting it in the rhythm or short dance instead of in its' own segment. And he has no incentive at all to learn them after they removed them entirely. He is still a great skater. Compulsory judging could of course be as political as any part of dance, but even a no-technik viewer like me could see obvious quality differences between couples - speed, size of pattern, depth of lobe, etc. At least in singles, skaters still have to work on the edges they used to work on in compulsories, in order to get > points for footwork. And of course to get a more solid foundation for jumps, spins, stroking, and speed. Good dance coaches can teach good edges w/o compulsories, but I still think they are a good tool to differentiate between teams.

Anyone wanting to compete in dance still has to learn compulsories, b/c they are part of the testing track that skaters are required to pass in order to compete at a certain level. Test structure varies between countries and I don't know the specifics of the UK structure, but Lewis would have had to pass a number of pattern dance tests, through the highest level, to be able to compete. It is true that many international dances are not part of the required test track in most countries, so those are the dances he likely had to learn, but that's often the case with all dancers, even those who started dance when they were 5.

 

[angi]

Today's highlights for me were L/L and C/P, G/F's RD still not working for me but it was performed better than last week. C/P had a lovely debut and I look forward to seeing their RD getting more millage. Also felt S/W were very underscored here while Browns were way overscored. A bit of an uneven event in terms of scoring.

 

[MarieM]

Ok the FD of the season goes HANDS down to the italians Guignard&Fabri. World champion material, and it can only go up up up. I love everything in it!

 

[VGThuy]

Ok the FD of the season goes HANDS down to the italians Guignard&Fabri. World champion material, and it can only go up up up. I love everything in it!

Yes! Say it loud and say it proud! It feels nice to be on the same side with you.

 

[PRlady]

I’ve got my druthers for Worlds pending how Chock/Bates look next week. But neither they nor GilPoir are as skilled as G/F on their best days.

 

[chantilly]

G/F for me much better here than last competition in terms of delivering the theme of the program.
Still find the last third isn’t quite working yet. The music doesn’t seem to work.
I’ll see it again at the final though and reassess.
Their skating skills can’t be denied however.
But they still didn’t draw me in.
Again it drives me crazy when I hear Mark mention how difficult their entry to their lift was and that they could do something much easier to get a level 4! Going for the GOE.
Grr if it’s harder ISU change the darn requirements to get lift levels since GOE are up to you know the judges.

Thought there were some stingy GOE’s in L/L’s elements particularly the twizzles as well as F/G.

Anyhoo looking forward to the next one and the final.

 

[VGThuy]

I feel like both Guignard/Fabbri and Hawayek/Baker should have started becoming for sure legit medal contenders at least four years earlier than they are now, but better late than never, and the ice dance field is super competitive.

 

[chantilly]

I think both teams struggled with identity and programs and as good as they are they weren’t as good as the teams that retired and overscored them in the last quad.

 

[VGThuy]

I disagree with that big time (especially being “as good” technically speaking) but we’ll just leave it alone.