The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

[sap5]

I’m probably the only person who misses the CD music

You are not. I may be the only person who specifically misses the Yankee Polka though (both the music and the dance).

 

[sap5]

Sometimes I think that the reason why we haven’t had a waltz for the pattern in so long is because so few teams would be able to skate it

I wonder how many people can properly teach CDs. I never considered Dubreuil/Lauzon, Davis/White, or Belbin/Agosto to be great CD skaters, for example. I know that there are some great tech coaches out there though…maybe bringing the CD back would bring some of these people into the fore.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

nm. wrong thread

 

[skategal]

I wonder how many people can properly teach CDs. I never considered Dubreuil/Lauzon, Davis/White, or Belbin/Agosto to be great CD skaters, for example. I know that there are some great tech coaches out there though…maybe bringing the CD back would bring some of these people into the fore.

Scott Moir comes to mind.

 

[deegee]

isn't schoenfelder coaching now? he and isabelle performed some beautiful waltzes (even though they would sometimes start the pattern on a weird beat).

 

[miffy]

You are not. I may be the only person who specifically misses the Yankee Polka though (both the music and the dance).

I loved it too! My favourite. I also liked Golden Waltz, Blues and Argentine Tango.

 

[her grace]

I feel like all we ever do is Latin, blues and unidentified folk. I’m ready for a waltz or even a polka.

 

[VGThuy]

What’s next season? A tango again? Some weird rhythm that allows the skaters to just do a shortened FD with a side-by-side no touch step?

 

[semogal]

Is this season over yet? I hate the "latin” RD and the rule changes. All the head rolls to whip the ponytails made me dizzy yesterday. How do they not get whiplash?

 

[Peepsquick]

I don't know about you, but so far I'm not super excited by the Ice-Dance season? May be I am the one having the post-OG slump!

 

[chantilly]

Me too
I’m not liking much so far
G/P and La/La I like.
The baby French are ok.
H/B are ok
F/G are fun as always
FB/S have a great RD

But it’s definitely lacking dynamics this season.

Honestly I’m not excited by any skating this season, although there’s been some great stories this season and unexpected results.

 

[Peepsquick]

Me too
I’m not liking much so far
G/P and La/La I like.
The baby French are ok.
H/B are ok
F/G are fun as always
FB/S have a great RD

But it’s definitely lacking dynamics this season.

Honestly I’m not excited by any skating this season, although there’s been some great stories this season and unexpected results.

La/La and L/LG have both make me smile (for different reasons)... but the rest, not so much ...

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

Scott Moir comes to mind.

Barbara Fusar-Poli comes to my mind. Her teams consistently have good basics.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

I loved it too! My favourite. I also liked Golden Waltz, Blues and Argentine Tango.

I too enjoy the Polka. There were several nice ones in the last polka season, which was what, ten years ago now?

 

[sap5]

Barbara Fusar-Poli comes to my mind. Her teams consistently have good basics.

I feel like Zhulin should be good, but is he?

 

[chantilly]

I feel like Zhulin should be good, but is he?

I don’t think so. Although S/K were quite good despite what some would say.
The main issue with the Russian teams (when they were still competing) was their bad choreography.

 

[Dobre]

Just finished the dance from IDF. That FD by Guignard & Fabbri is just stellar to me. I hope they clean up the RD before the GPF as I think it's good. Just less ready & has a lot of movement within it--like their RD last season--so it needs a lot more precision in order for them to lock it down. But the FD, I love. Before I mostly noticed the music/feel/opening lift. But the whole first section now builds so well. Still room to grow throughout the season, but I it.

 

[skatingguy]

Ice dance ceased being a sport many seasons ago when they began watering down the technical aspects. Watch it like a show, you'll be less invested, because that's what it is.

I have to wonder when you started watching figure skating, and in particular, ice dance, if you think that ice dance ceased being a sport because of water down technical elements. There's always been an athletic aspect to the event, but the politics have always been as important as any technical ability of the athletes involved.

 

[Karen-W]

I have to wonder when you started watching figure skating, and in particular, ice dance, if you think that ice dance ceased being a sport because of water down technical elements. There's always been an athletic aspect to the event, but the politics have always been as important as any technical ability of the athletes involved.

I don't think this is entirely true. There was a time, when IJS first was implemented, where the political part of the discipline was less of a factor. It's drifting back to the politics being a much bigger factor in the last 4 years with some of the changes to GOE and introduction of more choreographic elements that aren't leveled.

 

[skatingguy]

I don't think this is entirely true. There was a time, when IJS first was implemented, where the political part of the discipline was less of a factor. It's drifting back to the politics being a much bigger factor in the last 4 years with some of the changes to GOE and introduction of more choreographic elements that aren't leveled.

I don't know about that - did it really, or did we just convince ourselves that it was because we now had a statistical reference for quality that we didn't have before. When I look at the results from those first few years of IJS, I cock my head slightly to the side, and say 'hmm' just like I can through every other era of skating, but maybe that just personal bias - it's hard to separate that when we really don't know what the judges were thinking at the time.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't know about that - did it really, or did we just convince ourselves that it was because we now had a statistical reference for quality that we didn't have before. When I look at the results from those first few years of IJS, I cock my head slightly to the side, and say 'hmm' just like I can through every other era of skating, but maybe that just personal bias - it's hard to separate that when we really don't know what the judges were thinking at the time.

Oh, absolutely, there was a huge change when IJS came along. I don't think the rise of the North American teams would have been as fast as it was without IJS.

 

[VGThuy]

I don't think this is entirely true. There was a time, when IJS first was implemented, where the political part of the discipline was less of a factor. It's drifting back to the politics being a much bigger factor in the last 4 years with some of the changes to GOE and introduction of more choreographic elements that aren't leveled.

I don’t know…Grusina/Gonchorov…Ponomarenko, the tech caller at 2005 Skate Canada getting into trouble for essentially begging the other callers to not call G/G properly and have them lose to Dubreuil/Lauzon…the way Delobel/Schoenfelder were scored…funny things happening… the sort of fast dumping of Belbin/Agosto at 2006 Worlds when Navka/Kostomorov were out of the picture and no longer needed their “buffer” team to separate them from their biggest competition at the Olympics when it seemed that B/A wouldn’t be competing in Torino before Tanith got her citizenship just in time - That’s if you buy that theory.

I will say you do have a point because although B/A who were already rising as medal contenders prior to IJS in the 2003-04 season…you can say it was thanks to the first version of IJS being used in the Grand Prix that built them up…and then at 2004 Worlds where 6.0 was used, they were tempered back down to fifth place behind Winkler/Lohse who suddenly became medal contenders (unlike most teams they lost to in all three of their Grand Prix events) at Worlds in Germany…but outside of W/L, B/A’s 2004 Worlds results was in-line with the rest of season since factored placements and rankings determined outcome, not cumulative scores.

I will say that B/A and other North Americans were already rising in the 6.0 system. Look at the Junior Worlds results from the late 1980s to the pre-IJS 2000s and you start seeing North American teams medaling and then winning Junior Worlds in a way they hadn’t done since 1984, back when you didn’t have to skate “the Soviet/Russian” style to win.

 

[Bigbird]

My question is though is this a sport or a beauty contest? With all other disciplines technical content increases but for dance we do the opposite? I started watching ice dance in the 90s I think. Nothing gives you the goosebumps like an impeccably performed Golden Waltz. The watered down stuff leaves me wanting. Maybe they don't have competent enough judges to evaluate?

 

[Colonel Green]

My question is though is this a sport or a beauty contest? With all other disciplines technical content increases but for dance we do the opposite? I started watching ice dance in the 90s I think. Nothing gives you the goosebumps like an impeccably performed Golden Waltz. The watered down stuff leaves me wanting. Maybe they don't have competent enough judges to evaluate?

The patterns are less difficult, but in most other respects ice dance programs now are much more technically difficult than in the 1990s. Though it would I think be fair to say that the current rules are less demanding than they were at their peak a few years ago.

For better or worse, I'd say that the ISU wants the discipline to be freer than it was at the peak of IJS standardization. The slow demise of the pattern in the SD/RD being the most obvious example of this.

 

[VGThuy]

My question is though is this a sport or a beauty contest? With all other disciplines technical content increases but for dance we do the opposite? I started watching ice dance in the 90s I think. Nothing gives you the goosebumps like an impeccably performed Golden Waltz. The watered down stuff leaves me wanting. Maybe they don't have competent enough judges to evaluate?

I think they saw ice dance programs looking more like skating programs and less “dancey”. In the 2010-2018 years, the callers seemed to have much more power in determining results and medalists and now it seems they have over-corrected it to give the judges much more power that we have this imbalance (maybe that’s how they really wanted it). Not only did they increase the amount of non-level choreo elements that are all about GOE, but they decreased the base point differentials between the levels as well. Not to mention they added calling each individual team member with levels to help teams’ scores when back in the day, one partner behind the other would result in the entire element be called that partner’s level…thus being much more costly. There’s much less a sense of drama or unpredictability with the scores since there’s much more variability in level calling and execution and performance the day of does determine calling while PCS and GOE could be more “protocol”. The surprise element now is just seeing which teams are starting to be politicked into medal contention.

 

[PRlady]

The patterns are less difficult, but in most other respects ice dance programs now are much more technically difficult than in the 1990s. Though it would I think be fair to say that the current rules are less demanding than they were at their peak a few years ago.

For better or worse, I'd say that the ISU wants the discipline to be freer than it was at the peak of IJS standardization. The slow demise of the pattern in the SD/RD being the most obvious example of this.

But they killed the wrong segment. I do miss comparing RD patterns. I’d like to do something so all the midline/diagonal sequences didn’t look alike!

 

[barbarafan]

The patterns are less difficult, but in most other respects ice dance programs now are much more technically difficult than in the 1990s. Though it would I think be fair to say that the current rules are less demanding than they were at their peak a few years ago.

For better or worse, I'd say that the ISU wants the discipline to be freer than it was at the peak of IJS standardization. The slow demise of the pattern in the SD/RD being the most obvious example of this.

I loved the cd's and as well I liked when the commentators would show you a shot of the blade of 2 skaters and compare them. I was a dancer not a skater so I can go a long time thinking a certain dance team are fantastic until these details are pointed out to me. Tessa & Scott were said to have terrific skating skills and when differences were pointed out to me I could always see clearly what they were talking about. When they removed the CD I remember Tessa being asked is she approved of the change and she answered that she felt having one less program to learn and perfect would be beneficial. In my head I was screaming NO NO No!. I have always felt that that plus Marina's political claut and deliberately shitty programs were responsible for their loss at the Olympics.

 

[VGThuy]

I don’t get how Marina’s “deliberately shitty” programs were responsible for the demise of the CD. They’ve been calls for ridding the CDs for a while.

 

[Dobre]

Um . . . CDs are CDs. It's the TV networks that don't like showing the same thing.

 

[sap5]

It's not just tv networks. I'm a diehard ice dance fan so don't mind sitting through lots of CDs, but most audience members are not like me.