ISU Congress & elections 2022

[MacMadame]

Let's do keep in mind that the judges are volunteers. (If I am bored to tears while volunteering, I don't volunteer for the same thing again). I don't know if this is what that particular judge was saying, but I remember boredom being an issue for judges who were testing something along these lines.

It was the PCS panel at that test event that complained about not having enough to do. Since they are supposed to be enjoying the program as a whole, maybe there were a lot of boring programs?

 

[ice coverage]

I think splitting the panels is a good idea, however the test they did in Oberstdorf had, from what I understand, one panel judging GOE/Skating Skills and the other panel judging the remaining PCS categories. Perhaps reducing PCS to 3 categories would make the split better... because in that scenario, the PCS judges can still judge the program more holistically while the GOE judges take a closer look at the actual execution of the technical elements. ...

FWIW: For the 2014 Nebelhorn test, none of the judges had the exact same set of responsibilities.

From the Announcement for 2014 Nebelhorn:

The panel will consist of 12 judges​

- GOE is evaluated by 5 judges​

- Four of the 5 GOE Judges also evaluate one component different from the components evaluated by the other of these 4 Judges​

- The 5 components are also evaluated by the remaining 7 judges [who do not judge GOE]​

- Each of these 7 judges is evaluating only 3 components​

- The assignment of these components is done so that each component is finally evaluated with 5 scores.​

The chart on p. 7 in Section 9 of the Announcement illustrates the division of responsibilities.

Basically,

Judge 1: SS + TR + PE (no judging of GOE)​

Judge 2: TR + PE + CH (no judging of GOE)​

Judge 3: PE + CH + INT (no judging of GOE)​

Judge 4: SS + TR + CH (no judging of GOE)​

Judge 5: SS + TR + INT (no judging of GOE)​

Judge 6: SS + PE + INT (no judging of GOE)​

Judge 7: TR + CH + INT (no judging of GOE)​

Judge 8: SS + GOE​

Judge 9: PE + GOE​

Judge 10: CH + GOE​

Judge 11: INT + GOE​

Judge 12: GOE only​

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/zz-archives/event-documents-archives/figure-skating-archives/2014-15-4/international-1/announcements-6/6860-nt2014-announcement/file

 

[gkelly]

It was the PCS panel at that test event that complained about not having enough to do.

I thought that was the GOE panel that complained about not having enough to do . . . way back at 2006 Nebelhorn. I can't find any articles about it let alone the one that mentioned that tidbit.

The 2014 test at least had (most of) them judging one component, according to @ice coverage's listing above.

 

[MacMadame]

The 2014 test

Sounds like it was developed by someone who doesn't know how to do research.

Unless the point was to find areas of further study. But there aren't enough people in each group, there was no control group, and there were too many different combinations.

 

[Karen-W]

Does anyone see a link for the 6/9 9am-12:30pm Figure Skating Branch session? I sent ISUFigure a tweet asking about it just now because nothing has appeared on the Skating ISU's YT page yet. There's a Speed Skating Branch link but not one for the FS session that's supposed to start in less than an hour. Mind, as slowly as Lakernik moves through the agenda, they might not get to the PCS proposal until the late night session, but with our luck, we'd miss out on that one because the ISU didn't set up the stream for this morning's session.

 

[Karen-W]

Does anyone see a link for the 6/9 9am-12:30pm Figure Skating Branch session? I sent ISUFigure a tweet asking about it just now because nothing has appeared on the Skating ISU's YT page yet. There's a Speed Skating Branch link but not one for the FS session that's supposed to start in less than an hour. Mind, as slowly as Lakernik moves through the agenda, they might not get to the PCS proposal until the late night session, but with our luck, we'd miss out on that one because the ISU didn't set up the stream for this morning's session.

And we have a link! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd2tf-HwoYM

Continuing the agenda with the rest of the Special Regulations motions (C.172 through C.198) then onto the Technical Rules motions (including the PCS one)

 

[Karen-W]

Well, they've managed to blast through the rest of the Special Regs very quickly this morning before the coffee break -

Proposals #172, 174 - ACCEPTED
Proposal #176 - WITHDRAWN
Urgent Matter #3 - AMENDED & ACCEPTED
Proposals #184 & 185 - ACCEPTED
Proposals #187, 188, 193 & 194 - ACCEPTED
Proposal #189 - AMENDED & ACCEPTED
Proposals #190 & 191 - ACCEPTED
Proposal #192 - REJECTED
Proposal #196 - ACCEPTED
Proposal #197 - ACCEPTED
Proposal #198 - after some debate, ACCEPTED - here's the text of the proposal

Principles of calculating Anomalies:
a) Grade of Execution (GOE)
i) For each element performed the computer calculates the average GOE of all the Judges. The GOE’s awarded by the Referee are NOT used in this calculation.
ii) The computer then calculates the difference per element between the “calculated average” and each Judge’s GOE’s which results in “Deviation Points”.

b) Program Component Scores (PCS)
i) For each Program Component, the computer calculates the average scores of all the Judges. The Program Components scores awarded by the Referee are NOT used in this calculation.
ii) The computer then calculates the difference between the “calculated average” and the Judges Program Components scores which results in “Deviation Points”.
iii) The Total Deviation points for each Judge will be added to provide a Total Net Deviation Points (+ and – Deviation Points compensate each other) based on all Program Components totaled.

c) The acceptable range of Deviation points and all subsequent procedures will be written in an annual ISU Communication.

Hungary's resolution to study options for a new OWG qualifying competition/structure was accepted after some discussion where the principals in the proposed resolution were removed so as to not limit the scope of the working group.

 

[victorskid]

They finished everything up to the technical rules, including the proposal for the formation of a working group to look at Olympic qualifying. Time for 1/2 hour coffee break

The Netherlands proposal #198 was accepted with the hopes that the judges will have more freedom to honestly evaluate the GOE & the components (whether they be 5 or 3)

OOPS - after coffee and before the technical rules, we have the proposals related to synchronized skating, starting at #222.

 

[Karen-W]

They finished everything up to the technical rules, including the proposal for the formation of a working group to look at Olympic qualifying. Time for 1/2 hour coffee break

The Netherlands proposal #198 was accepted with the hopes that the judges will have more freedom to honestly evaluate the GOE & components

Well, they finished the FS Special Regs - there are 5 Synchro Special Regs (#222-225) - not sure if they'll jump to those or dive into the FS technical rules when we come back.

They moved pretty quickly through the remaining FS special regs, even though there was a moment or two of Lakernik not understanding again during the discussion about Hungary's resolution, lol.

ETA - I was correct and they hit the Synchro Special Regs first, all of which were ACCEPTED including Urgent Matter #4. Next up are the FS Technical Rules.

 

[On My Own]

Judge 8: SS + GOE
Judge 9: PE + GOE
Judge 10: CH + GOE
Judge 11: INT + GOE

This in particular sounds completely unintuitive to me. But anyway. I support the split on paper, just so the judges can have fewer things to focus on, and end up doing a better job in judging those fewer things.

 

[On My Own]

@Karen-W with the tea in the chat.

I'm kind of looking forward to the week-long meltdown on twitter if this one passes.

 

[Karen-W]

@Karen-W with the tea in the chat.

I'm kind of looking forward to the week-long meltdown on twitter if this one passes.

The Fanyus in the live chat are KILLING me.

 

[On My Own]

I can't believe these people are messing up a roll call.

 

[Karen-W]

I can't believe these people are messing up a roll call.

repeatedly!!!!! this should not be this hard!!!!! And now, I'm really hoping, like you, that this PCS proposal passes, if only because the Hanyu fans will melt down and then leave the live chat.

 

[Debbie S]

If the delegates can't manage a roll call, expecting them to understand this voting question might be a tall order.

Lakernik needs to stop.talking.now.

 

[Ena Grins]

I'm amazed/amused by Patricia St. Peter explaining pretty clearly what this vote means for the 3-component proposal and then Lakernik talking and confusing everyone again, because he can't let someone else have the last word.

 

[Debbie S]

They don't even know what proposal they voted on? OMG.

 

[victorskid]

So there was unanimous agreement to divide the technical "stuff" into 4 packages rather than one by one - 1 package for "general", and 1 for each of the disciplines. Then they moved to the general package and Finland wanted to take the one for the 3 components out of the package. Procedurally, if that was done, the whole package would be rejected.
After much discussion, Finland's proposal was rejected, meaning that the "general" package was accepted, including the move from 5 to 3 components. At least they think that's what they did....

 

[On My Own]

I missed a bit of the proceedings. Did they vote to accept the whole block, and then Finland said "let's remove 201 from the block" which was then rejected?

Or did they first make a decision to keep 201 in the block or not, and are waffling around, waiting to vote on the block?

Hilarious levels of incompetence shown, either way.

 

[On My Own]

...Did the fanyus just compare Sochi with the Nazi Olympics?

 

[victorskid]

Sit down Boris!!

 

[victorskid]

Sit down Boris!!

My feline companion is demanding bedtime! Good night all

 

[On My Own]

Oh, so they're just voting for proposals to remain in the package or not. 201 remains in the package. 205 also stays in the package.

Wait, @Karen-W when did the vote for the package take place? I guess I'm still confused, then.

 

[MsZem]

...Did the fanyus just compare Sochi with the Nazi Olympics?

For those of us not inclined to follow Fanyus, what is it that they find objectionable?

 

[Gris]

So according to Lakernik, #201 has been accepted?

 

[Karen-W]

So there was unanimous agreement to divide the technical "stuff" into 4 packages rather than one by one - 1 package for "general", and 1 for each of the disciplines. Then they moved to the general package and Finland wanted to take the one for the 3 components out of the package. Procedurally, if that was done, the whole package would be rejected.
After much discussion, Finland's proposal was rejected, meaning that the "general" package was accepted, including the move from 5 to 3 components. At least they think that's what they did....

So according to Lakernik, #201 has been accepted?

It sounds like they voted, before voting on each block of technical rule proposals, to accept them in blocks unless there were objections. Soooooo, 201 was accepted as part of the block of general technical rule proposals.

 

[On My Own]

So according to Lakernik, #201 has been accepted?

It looks like it happened already. Someone on the chat is keeping up with it, and says the block is already accepted, but they're trying to go through them individually to remove some debatable proposals.

Like the ID tech block was just accepted too, guessing I missed this part for Singles and Pairs.

For those of us not inclined to follow Fanyus, what is it that they find objectionable?

That the overscoring, ruining of lives via said overscoring, killing of figure skating, crossovers in skating is... second only to Berlin 1936, apparently.


And the meltdown begins! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY1-v97Mic

 

[Karen-W]

It looks like it happened already. Someone on the chat is keeping up with it, and says the block is already accepted, but they're trying to go through them individually to remove some debatable proposals.

Like the ID tech block was just accepted too, guessing I missed this part for Singles and Pairs.

Yes, the vote on the block for Singles/Pairs was fast. The Synchro block was also just accepted. They're reviewing the agenda to see if there's anything else they need to do or they can have the afternoon off. Looks like Lakernik is asking for the Tech Committees to present the status of their current four-year plans as well as their proposed new four-year plans (items C.15 & 16 on the agenda).

 

[On My Own]

I have all the dumb drama I need for a week or two now

 

[Karen-W]

And they're over for the day - they have the afternoon off since they busted through all the Technical Rule changes after the morning coffee break.

I have all the dumb drama I need for a week or two now

You're overly optimistic there if you think that this Fanyu drama will die down that fast. Lord help us if he decides to compete on the GP next season...