Russian figure skating news & updates in 2022

[bladesofgorey]

Hello.

The Majority of Russians Support the War.

I'm not saying that the majority of skaters do (as a whole they may, or they may not due to having a more broad view of the world through travel) but I don't think that figure skaters are such outliers that we need to be giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they are forced under threat of imprisonment when they show up to Pro-Putin and Pro War events and spout the Russia talking points. Just no. It's not being uncharitable it's being realistic.

 

[Wyliefan]

No one is assuming anything. @Andrey aka Pushkin reported on something he'd been told.

 

[Vagabond]

I got the info, I passed the info.

Personally I have zero doubt they weren't given any choice, and I also have very little doubt they were given the text of their speech. However, of course, I can't really know what each of them really thinks, and each one is entitled to one's opinion.

What would have happened if they had declined or come up with some excuse in order not to attend? Would they have been sent to a gulag for twenty-five years?

 

[airgelaal]

I can hardly imagine how they are going to justify themselves in the future? Were we forced? Yes, we received gifts, awards, prizes, enjoyed life, but were we forced? And if we are talking about athletes, there are thousands of them. I don't want to criticize anyone's "suffering", but their deal with their conscience doesn't seem so tragic.

 

[PRlady]

You're not seriously comparing the refusal of meeting a president of USA vs. meeting Putin. Whoever that president is.

I understand that giving any benefit of the doubt to a Russian nowadays is an unpopular practice, but judging by the USSR times, the protocol in this case would have been pretty well defined. For one, there's absolutely zero chance no one from the relevant structures didn't check and correct the speeches, and it's absolutely sure the skaters were given the guidelines of how to structure the speech, with "thanking the President" being a mandatory point. I think that's also the reason why Valieva was the only one being "unofficial" - I think her being a minor once again saved her.

Regarding the mere meeting - that's the information I received. And once again, projecting the Soviet years - no, buying a doctor note wouldn't have helped, and in this case the Federation would most likely provide their own doctor with very well defined orders. Anyone who tried to get a sickness day in the army should know how it works.

I'm kind of surprised at some of you here, tbh (PRlady, looking at you). It's not a secret how the autocracies operate, especially during the war times. I don't know which skater supports what, but to be able to show an open protest in this situation, one must have a super strong back and administrative resources, such as a rich and important daddy or a foreign passport.

I understand why you think I’m naive. And btw, it’s not like athletes here can’t be punished in different ways for political stances. Look up Colin Kaepernick.

I think having to deliver an approved speech is one thing but Mishina’s fangirling was obviously personal (and possibly self-promoting given Tarasova’s recent appearance, why should Evgenia get all the patriotic glory?)

But there is no reason at all to think any of the skaters objected. Maybe later they will try to make a case that they did and I’ll listen. At this moment the logical assumption is that they were at best indifferent to the symbolism of being used by Putin at this moment.

Putin himself decided to use the occasion to defend Valieva, so obviously that’s not just a grandpa-oops issue for him.

 

[starrynight]

Hello.

The Majority of Russians Support the War.

Yes and it is always worthwhile acknowledging these things even if to western minds it seems hard to believe.

I can think of so many examples where international conflicts are simplified, distorted and infantilised by people trying to transplant western sensibilities into other mindsets.

 

[BittyBug]

I can think of so many examples where international conflicts are simplified, distorted and infantilised by people trying to transplant western sensibilities into other mindsets.

Do you think this is one of them?

 

[starrynight]

Do you think this is one of them?

Honestly I was a little guilty of it myself at the beginning of this conflict when I naively didn’t think the Russians would carry out such significant slaughter of civilians.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

And how easy would it be for someone to circulate the story that the skaters didn't really want to be there, regardless of the actual truth (yes or no)? It's called covering your a**. Playing both sides.

Pretty easily. Only the person himself can know what he really thinks.
However, even if someone just tried to cover their asses by making up a cover story, that already a sign that person is not 100% on board with what is going on. If you fully support the cause, the president and the devil himself, you don't need to spread stories to "the other side".

Mishina didn't have to talk about how excited she was to sit close to Putin so she could get a better look at him. She could have just said, "Yes, honored to be here as a representative of my country" or something innocuous like that. Instead she's in full fangirl mode. But we're supposed to believe that she is potentially one of those who didn't want to go?

I'm sure for some of them meeting the president would have been a big deal regardless of their stand on Ukraine. And some of them might indeed wholeheartedly support the war, that's true too.

Hello.

The Majority of Russians Support the War.

The only good thing that came out of this war, is me discovering the existence of political science.

The fact is, it's impossible to know what the majority of Russians thinks. In autocracy during a wartime there's no such thing as trustworthy sociological statistics. Not only some 97% of the people refuse to answer any question coming from anyone he perceives as an official; when the remaining 3% answer - they try to "hit" what the questioning wants to hear, and on top of that - the one who collects the data is not free either and under pressure to provide the result requested. And then there's the process of joining the majority, when people take a stand based on what they perceive the majority is based on the information provided.

The facts are, Russians are not protesting in millions, but they also don't volunteer to the army in droves. And with all the autocracy and repressions, Putin is afraid to start a general mobilization - so he doesn't trust the majority of Russians supports the war either.

THAT is not related to the fact that Russians as a nation are responsible and they will have to be held accountable and pay for it, regardless of someone's private opinion.

What would have happened if they had declined or come up with some excuse in order not to attend? Would they have been sent to a gulag for twenty-five years?

Another thing I learned recently is the dynamic of political protest and the crowd psychology.

It is HARD to go against the flow. It's hard even when you live in an open democracy with freedom of speech. How many of us are capable of saying our boss "No, I'm not going to work overtime"? How many of us are capable of saying "I don't like my cousin so I'm not going to come to the family dinner"? Is any of these a question of life and death? Absolutely not, and yet statistically only some 10% do that.

Now put on top of that the age of the athletes, the state of war, their dependency on the support from the state, the pressure from the federation, the employment possibilities and lack of basic knowledge of laws and what is possible and what is not, even in the corrupt system of Russia. And cherry on top: the new laws that allow up to 15 years in jail for any protest.

So realistically, no, they wouldn't have been sent to gulag, but a)most of us wouldn't have had the courage to decline either under the circumstances; b) maybe gulag no, but a real possibility of having their lives ruined and c) they actually might believe they would have been arrested even if realistically - not really, but to know that one must have the knowledge and resources they might not have.

But there is no reason at all to think any of the skaters objected. Maybe later they will try to make a case that they did and I’ll listen. At this moment the logical assumption is that they were at best indifferent to the symbolism of being used by Putin at this moment.

That's true, and all Russians will have to answer some questions one day. I hope for them they are in peace with their own thoughts and beliefs, and will be after this nightmare ends as well.

But it's not fair to judge them either way now. I wish more protested openly, both athletes and common people, however, we're not in the position to demand that or draw conclusions about their real thoughts.

I can know about myself, and I can fully admit if I lived in Russia now, with all my thoughts and views, the chance of me going to a protest would have been around 30%. And that's given I am aware of the legal ways to protect myself and I'm financially independent. The chance of being on the wrong side of the statistics is low, but the price of it is very very high.

And for the same myself 10 years younger with the same political views but with the finances and knowledge I had back then, the chance of me openly protesting would have been 1%. And no offence to anyone, but I think the percentages would have been similar for the vast majority of all of us.

BTW there's a new law being passed now, defining repressive measure against anyone defined as "foreign agent". It's not a new thing but it is being expanded now to include potentially literally anyone. For example, if an FSUer went to protest, in addition to the punishment for the protest, they would also potentially be in danger of being defined as "foreign agents" for the mere fact of being registered on a forum with foreign posters. Just for our collective information.

Putin himself decided to use the occasion to defend Valieva, so obviously that’s not just a grandpa-oops issue for him.

I have my opinions in regards to Russia and Belarus suspension, as well as WADA, Valieva and etc. However, it's an absolute fact in Russia (much like in other autocratic/totalitarian states) sport is used for political purposes.

 

[airgelaal]

I can understand that one individual is afraid, but I see no reason why they can't come out with a joint statement. With signatures of skaters, coaches, choreographers. If there are really so many of them, who are against the war, then what could the authorities do to all of them? They could take away some awards and prizes from them, but nothing more. The federation would not be able to do anything with them, as this would put an end to the federation. Yes, haters could attack them, but their conscience would be clear.
I am sure that if they wanted to, they would find opportunities. But they decided to go with the flow.

 

[Frau Muller]

Yes and it is always worthwhile acknowledging these things even if to western minds it seems hard to believe.

I can think of so many examples where international conflicts are simplified, distorted and infantilised by people trying to transplant western sensibilities into other mindsets.

Even 20 yrs ago - way before current situation - Putin had 75% support. Now it’s even higher. One has to understand that Russia is an extraordinarily conservative society…e.g., the Patriarch Kirill (P’s personal confessor) knew darn well what he was saying last month in his infamous statement, “We are saving Russia from Gay Parades.” And I did not praise Kirill during Easter services…kept mouth shut during those specific prayers…and I was not alone. But that’s one church in DC, not Russia. A church full of Ukrainians and not-so-naive Russians and their American spouses.

 

[allezfred]

Am hoping that this sounds better in Russian than the English translation:

Виктория Синицина on Instagram: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пекине, вручили государственные награды. Не знаю даже, что волнительнее: соревноваться на олимпийском льду или говорить глаза в глаза с президентом 😄🫣 Во ВКонтак

18K likes, 259 comments - victoria_sinitsina on April 26, 2022: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пе..."

www.instagram.com

 

[airgelaal]

Am hoping that this sounds better in Russian than the English translation:

Виктория Синицина on Instagram: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пекине, вручили государственные награды. Не знаю даже, что волнительнее: соревноваться на олимпийском льду или говорить глаза в глаза с президентом 😄🫣 Во ВКонтак

18K likes, 259 comments - victoria_sinitsina on April 26, 2022: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пе..."

www.instagram.com

Better? Hm...

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Even 20 yrs ago - way before current situation - Putin had 75% support. Now it’s even higher. One has to understand that Russia is an extraordinarily conservative society…e.g., the Patriarch Kirill (P’s personal confessor) knew darn well what he was saying last month in his infamous statement, “We are saving Russia from Gay Parades.” And I did not praise Kirill during Easter services…kept mouth shut during those specific prayers…and I was not alone. But that’s one church in DC, not Russia. A church full of Ukrainians and not-so-naive Russians and their American spouses.

Nothing of what you wrote is factually correct, with the possible exception of you not praising Patriarch Kirill.

I can understand that one individual is afraid, but I see no reason why they can't come out with a joint statement. With signatures of skaters, coaches, choreographers. If there are really so many of them, who are against the war, then what could the authorities do to all of them? They could take away some awards and prizes from them, but nothing more. The federation would not be able to do anything with them, as this would put an end to the federation. Yes, haters could attack them, but their conscience would be clear.
I am sure that if they wanted to, they would find opportunities. But they decided to go with the flow.

That is true, but the fact is, coaches/skaters are NOT organised and therefore can't rely on the "they can't fire us all" strategy. And they easily can be denied training condition, license to coach (being unable to work with children, which is the main income of 90% of the skaters, is in fact the immediate, certain and well defined result by the law), not being invited to shows and competitions, getting cut off the team, losing the salaries... Etc. They are generally in a better position because they might have a better chance finding some kind of work abroad, but it's absolutely not a given and comes with the additional (and understandable) mass visa denial of Russians by the western states now.

So yes, more should have been vocal, more should have protested at least in some way. But the price they'd pay would be high enough for us not to be judgemental (well, you personally have the full right to be judgemental of anyone ).

Am hoping that this sounds better in Russian than the English translation:

Виктория Синицина on Instagram: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пекине, вручили государственные награды. Не знаю даже, что волнительнее: соревноваться на олимпийском льду или говорить глаза в глаза с президентом 😄🫣 Во ВКонтак

18K likes, 259 comments - victoria_sinitsina on April 26, 2022: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пе..."

www.instagram.com

Nope. Now that is something that was absolutely unnecessary, and came out of, if not support, then a desire to be in line with the perceived majority.

 

[Frau Muller]

Where have YOU been hanging out in Russia, Andrei? Let me guess…in downtown Moscow & St P, with the Pussy Riot-type oddballs? ROTFL!

 

[Bigbird]

Am hoping that this sounds better in Russian than the English translation:

Виктория Синицина on Instagram: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пекине, вручили государственные награды. Не знаю даже, что волнительнее: соревноваться на олимпийском льду или говорить глаза в глаза с президентом 😄🫣 Во ВКонтак

18K likes, 259 comments - victoria_sinitsina on April 26, 2022: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пе..."

www.instagram.com

She's just a sycophant, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Hedwig]

If there are really so many of them, who are against the war, then what could the authorities do to all of them?

I don't believe that the majority of skaters is against the war. Or at least not to the degree that they actively WANT to do something against it and are burning with the desire to do so but are forced not to do it. Some may, most won't.

That was not my point.

The point is that it is not the fault of one individual what their country does and that a lot of Russians are manipulated and gaslighted.

We have seen it in other countries as well. People in the US believing that Trump won the last election? They DO have the ability to find other news sources but don't. They believe a lie. And it is not just a small percentages but a huge amount of people in a free country.

Response to the pandemic? How many co-idiots do we have in all countries across the world?
Are these really bad people who WANT to actively kill other people? No, most of them do not. But they - like all people - want to BELONG. They want to belong to their group of friends and family. They may read on social media and find the posts of all the covid-idiot-bots or now the Russian bots and think they are alone if they actually are uncertain.

They read the falsely balanced newspapers in the free Western world and think that because both points of view are shown that they have the same merit.

And in Russia they don't even have this falsely balanced account but state media.

Add to that what Andrey said - how hard it is to say something against your boss, your mother-in-law, your colleagues, even if you may not be thrown in jail for it but just face critisicm.

You probably all know about Solomon Asch and his experiemtns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments
NOTHING would have happened to the participants and still people gave the wrong answer just to conform.

This is very complex and to brush all Russian people as evil does not help.

We need to find a way to reach them. To work together against their government maybe. Or at least to reach them once Putin has been thrown over so that something like this never happens again.

This does not work by saying they are all evil and cowards but by understanding why they act how they act and also understanding that the majority in this thread would act the same way if we had been raised the same way. They raising, the national pride, the government - they are all wrong. People are people and basically the same everywhere.

How we react to it is a different story. Of course all sanction against Russia are correct. Of course no Russian skater should participate in an international competition. Yes, we should and will send more weapons to Ukraine and will cheer for every victory there.

But this has nothing to do with trying to understand humans and human behaviour and acknowledging that it is not that easy as black and white but there are all colours in between.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Where have YOU been hanging out in Russia, Andrei? Let me guess…in downtown Moscow & St P, with the Pussy Riot-type oddballs? ROTFL!

Importance of religion by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

34% of Russians consider religion important as opposed to 67% of Americans. In fact, Russia is 24th least religious country in the world.

Moscow and St.Petersburg constitute around 15% of the total population of Russia. Cities over 1 million constitute around a third of the total population in Russia. Statistically, getting your opinion based on the big cities is more accurate and representative than based on a forgotten orthodox church full of zealots.

Putin's real rating has never been properly measured because Russia is an autocracy. The closest thing to a real rating would have been the 2000 elections when he gained 53.4% of the votes. Since then none of the elections has been free, unbiased or unmanipulated. There's no way to know his real rating because there's no independent polling service, and both questioning and questioned don't feel free and are not free to state their real opinion.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

I don't believe that the majority of skaters is against the war. Or at least not to the degree that they actively WANT to do something against it and are burning with the desire to do so but are forced not to do it. Some may, most won't.

How we react to it is a different story. Of course all sanction against Russia are correct. Of course no Russian skater should participate in an international competition. Yes, we should and will send more weapons to Ukraine and will cheer for every victory there.

But this has nothing to do with trying to understand humans and human behaviour and acknowledging that it is not that easy as black and white but there are all colours in between.

Thank you.

I talked to both Ukrainians and Russians, and asked them what can practically be done. The answer was: go to the protests. The cynics among us say it's easy to protest against Putin while being sufficiently far away from him, but the fact is, this gives the sense of security of not being the outcasts.

There aren't many people in Russia who have the courage to protest openly, but there's an uncounted percentage that is not taking that risk, but will not join the pro-war rally either, because they saw others protesting in Russia or abroad, and realize they are not, to quote a poster here, "oddballs".

 

[Bigbird]

Do half of these athletes have the wherewithal to really understand the nuances of this situation? Katsalapov is repeatedly lobbying for Russia to have their own Grand Prix open to the participation of foreigners. To call him clueless would be an understatement. I just get the impression that a number of these "jocks" are out of their depth, not to be taken too seriously or judged too harshly so to speak.

 

[Karen-W]

Am hoping that this sounds better in Russian than the English translation:

Виктория Синицина on Instagram: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пекине, вручили государственные награды. Не знаю даже, что волнительнее: соревноваться на олимпийском льду или говорить глаза в глаза с президентом 😄🫣 Во ВКонтак

18K likes, 259 comments - victoria_sinitsina on April 26, 2022: "Сегодня нам, как победителям XXIV зимней Олимпиады в Пе..."

www.instagram.com

The vague, non-committal antidote to that is this...

Aleksandr Galliamov on Instagram: "Кремль прекрасен🎖"

9,383 likes, 191 comments - a_gallyam on April 27, 2022: "Кремль прекрасен🎖"

www.instagram.com

 

[Bigbird]

The vague, non-committal antidote to that is this...

Aleksandr Galliamov on Instagram: "Кремль прекрасен🎖"

9,383 likes, 191 comments - a_gallyam on April 27, 2022: "Кремль прекрасен🎖"

www.instagram.com

LOL.

 

[reut]

The vague, non-committal antidote to that is this...

Aleksandr Galliamov on Instagram: "Кремль прекрасен🎖"

9,383 likes, 191 comments - a_gallyam on April 27, 2022: "Кремль прекрасен🎖"

www.instagram.com

Well, we set a bar pretty low if not sucking up to the monster is already a good deed and an antidote. But it is definitely better than what Sinitsyna had to say on the matter...

 

[Spun Silver]

I can understand that one individual is afraid, but I see no reason why they can't come out with a joint statement. With signatures of skaters, coaches, choreographers. If there are really so many of them, who are against the war, then what could the authorities do to all of them? They could take away some awards and prizes from them, but nothing more. The federation would not be able to do anything with them, as this would put an end to the federation. Yes, haters could attack them, but their conscience would be clear.
I am sure that if they wanted to, they would find opportunities. But they decided to go with the flow.

A few years ago I helped organize a skating petition that was trying to put pressure on the French Fed to release some skaters whose careers it was destroying. You would think the whole skating world, apart from maybe some French skaters who depended on the Fed, would have been dying to sign and support the skaters, who included Bruno Massot and Tiffany Zagorski (Zahorski?). But we worked hard to get less than 1000 signatures IIRC. That was hard to understand... but in the end Gailhauguet did let them go so all was well. I'm just saying some people are not "political" and don't want to get near any petition. Or they have other mysterious motives. I remember a friend who refused to sign what I thought was a no brainer of a petition because her husband was a lawyer and her son was in law school. It made no sense.

I wish people would stop projecting their emotion and frustration about the war on a bunch of figure skaters who have nothing to do with it and no power to stop it. why not circulate the "buy me a fighter jet" video instead, or write to Uncle Joe, or send money to Ukrainian Etsy sellers? At least all those things are aimed at effective action even if they're long shots. But worrying about figure skaters... SMH.

 

[Wyliefan]

To hang out at a figure skating board and expect people not to talk about figure skaters is kind of a tall order, don't you think?

 

[Trillian]

Do half of these athletes have the wherewithal to really understand the nuances of this situation?

Most likely, almost none of them do. Just after the war started I read Masha Gessen’s book The Future is History, and the most striking part of it for me was the idea that the Soviet regime dismantled the academic study of the social sciences to the point that the majority of Russian people were left without the tools to understand or talk about their society on that level.

Obviously it’s more complex, and people in Russia have varying degrees of interaction with the world outside Russia. But in general I think it’s important to consider that people in Russia aren’t just being given different information than we are, most of them also have a different background in terms of how they’ve learned to understand society and the kind of power structures involved. They aren’t looking at the same information as we are, with the same eyes, and making different choices. They’re engaging with a different reality, using different tools.

And then on top of that, yeah, they’re athletes, not intellectuals.

I don’t want to see Russian skaters in international competition anytime soon because I think the skating federation and the government’s approach to sports is deeply corrupt and antithetical to the principles of international sport in general, and because I think the Ukrainian skaters deserve as safe and fair a playing field as we can give them right now. But I’m going to save my anger for the people who have real power - and for the most part, that’s not any figure skaters.

 

[jlai]

Do half of these athletes have the wherewithal to really understand the nuances of this situation? Katsalapov is repeatedly lobbying for Russia to have their own Grand Prix open to the participation of foreigners. To call him clueless would be an understatement. I just get the impression that a number of these "jocks" are out of their depth, not to be taken too seriously or judged too harshly so to speak.

A lot of them have lived very sheltered lives to dedicate themselves to the sport.
Kinda like how some of the skaters are so tone deaf re the sexual or non sexual abuse issues.

They are even more likely to believe in crazy things without knowing it or not be with the times

 

[barbarafan]

True, but she's not at the Kremlin today.

She is walking a type rope right now without a net under. If she admits Putin is an insane inhuman mass murderer she will spend hr life in jail or have an unfortunate accident. If she continues to kowtow and kiss his as* she will be banned forever with all her students coaches . How long do you think the " I have a previous engagement" nonsense is going to work:? Does she really think America wants her? Hopefully they have cancelled all her visa's and will block her getting any others.

 

[soogar]

I can understand that one individual is afraid, but I see no reason why they can't come out with a joint statement. With signatures of skaters, coaches, choreographers. If there are really so many of them, who are against the war, then what could the authorities do to all of them? They could take away some awards and prizes from them, but nothing more. The federation would not be able to do anything with them, as this would put an end to the federation. Yes, haters could attack them, but their conscience would be clear.
I am sure that if they wanted to, they would find opportunities. But they decided to go with the flow.

Why should anyone make a joint statement? They are Russian athletes and there are different views in Russia. I remember clearly how people in the US were gung ho about going into Iraq, and a person couldn't say anything against the war because they would be considered un-American. Then 8 years later, everyone was against the war they so fervently supported. So now, because people are against the war in Ukraine, these Russians have to condemn their president or be faced with judgment by fans who don't even live in the country. And to be honest, aren't buying tickets to their shows in Russia. And how presumptuous to assume that their consciences aren't "clear." By whose standards?

 

[reut]

So now, because people are against the war in Ukraine, these Russians have to condemn their president or be faced with judgment by fans who don't even live in the country. And to be honest, aren't buying tickets to their shows in Russia. And how presumptuous to assume that their consciences aren't "clear." By whose standards?

Small correction:
So now, because people are against the war in Ukraine are being daily bombed by Russia, these Russians have to condemn their president or be faced with judgment by fans who don't even live in the country suffer daily from the evil actions of aforementioned monster of a president and that country.

You see, this situation is pretty simple actually. There is no "two sides" here, there is no "but you see, it's not black and white" or "it requires further investigation". Now, on the 63th day of russia's useless meaningless outrageous war and after hundreds of proofs of russia's atrocities, everyone who is silent (and those sucking up to the monster of a president the more so) can't have his/her/its conscience "clear" by definition of what conscience means.