Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

[kwanfan1818]

Sociopaths are most often adept at managing their way through social structures and gaining loyalty.

 

[MacMadame]

Sociopaths are most often adept at managing their way through social structures and gaining loyalty.

Which is strong evidence that Harry and Meghan are not sociopaths.

 

[mella]

Completely agree, I think Harry is mentally disturbed. His wife is no better. Even Prince Andrew (who's no shining star) knows how to behave within the BRF and he has never disrespected the Queen. And yes, I'm not a fan of H&M based on what they have done to the BRF. I'm sorry, but if they want to leave, LEAVE. Stop dragging names in the mud and complaining about "racist" comments.

I'd rather listen to H&M speak about racism that hear about Prince Andrews abysmal behaviour which goes way beyond the pale.

Great for all those who can dismiss the need for public discussions about the racism that happens in all parts of society. Lots of us can't. Anyone who's surprised by the suggestion of racism in that family has been living under a rock.

Andrew knows how to behave? He's spent years doing things to bring the Royal family into disrepute but his actions have been brushed under the rug and deflected from in the press. And one of the things reported about him that pre-date H&M...? Yep racist comments and jokes. Like his father. What a chip off the old block.

Gmafb.

 

[allezfred]

I see no one has mentioned Meghan Marble’s hair getting name checked in Serbia’s Eurovision entry.

https://youtu.be/po7HDHTBBE0

 

[ballettmaus]

After blowing up the family,

I think that's an unfair characterization. Yes, the exit could have been handled better but I think the family was cracked and broken long before Harry wanted out.

I think Harry's biggest problem is that his PR was handled by professionals his entire life and now he's trying to do it on his own without any experience whatsoever. It probably would have worked 20 years ago but in the day and age of social media, PR looks like a minefield.

 

[overedge]

Even Prince Andrew (who's no shining star) knows how to behave within the BRF and he has never disrespected the Queen.

He disrespected the entire family and dragged their name through the mud by hanging out with Epstein and bonking underage girls that Epstein pimped for him.

 

[jeffisjeff]

I think Harry is mentally disturbed.

Says the person who thinks the baby is fake, the divorce papers are on the way, ... Oh the irony!

 

[Barbara Manatee]

I don't think Harry is a sociopath, or evil, or mentally ill. But in this case he is absolutely an asshat. I've had the experience of rearranging my life to care for an aging parent, only to have other relatives swan in from afar now and then and announce I'm doing it wrong. It's devastating. So when it comes to protecting his grandmother and making sure she's got the right people around her - Harry, either be there day to day and do the job or STFU. Especially in front of a microphone.

 

[clairecloutier]

Completely agree, I think Harry is mentally disturbed. His wife is no better. Even Prince Andrew (who's no shining star) knows how to behave within the BRF and he has never disrespected the Queen. And yes, I'm not a fan of H&M based on what they have done to the BRF. I'm sorry, but if they want to leave, LEAVE. Stop dragging names in the mud and complaining about "racist" comments.

Meghan and Harry did leave. They left several years ago. LOL.

I continue to feel that all of the "scandal" around Harry/Meghan says so much more about the BRF than anything else.

When you are such a hidebound and conformist group that you can't handle any member of that group speaking freely about something or having a different outlook than anyone else, it's just messed up.

And apparently it's at the point where it's honestly considered better to be a statutory rapist and general sleaze--as long as you keep your mouth shut in public--than it is to be a couple who have committed no actual crimes but have dared to speak their minds a bit.

Just think about the implications of that.

 

[Wyliefan]

Completely agree, I think Harry is mentally disturbed. His wife is no better. Even Prince Andrew (who's no shining star) knows how to behave within the BRF and he has never disrespected the Queen. And yes, I'm not a fan of H&M based on what they have done to the BRF. I'm sorry, but if they want to leave, LEAVE. Stop dragging names in the mud and complaining about "racist" comments.

When a rapist is your example of good behavior, you've lost the argument.

 

[ballettmaus]

And apparently it's at the point where it's honestly considered better to be a statutory rapist and general sleaze--as long as you keep your mouth shut in public--than it is to be a couple who have committed no actual crimes but have dared to speak their minds a bit.

I don't think it's at the point, I think families like the BRF (eg, other royal and very wealthy/influential families) have always been there. You can do what you want behind closed doors as long as you keep quiet about it and look the part in public.

I recently saw a documentary about Empress Elizabeth and the murder-suicide of her son was a subject. It was referred to as double-suicide even though it was murder-suicide and after they bodies were found, they called the family of the young girl he was with and they put a broomstick in her dress so that she would sit upright in the carriage as they left the estate. Two days after they died.
She was then buried in an unmarked grave in the middle of the night.

From what I've seen and read, sweeping scandals under the rug while maintaining appearances seemed to have always been the strategy of royal families.

 

[canbelto]

@Lemonade20 is too busy proving that Lilibet isn’t real to think straight. And the fact that she puts “racism” in quotes tells me all I need to know. Oh, and Prince Andrew ain’t Kurt Browning sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Anyone thinks Harry is spiralling out of control? That comment about "protecting the Queen".... interesting. It sounds like she gave some bad news to him personally and he's having trouble accepting it.

Oh doesn't look that way to me. Just the opposite. Harry's comment was grandstanding. If he really wanted to make a difference for the Queen...get over there with your kids. Actions speak way louder than words.
And the whole " we need need special security....." what a crock. If he is participating in the Queens jubilee...he could not be in a safer place. A gazillion of the Queens best guards will be all over the place.

I don't think Meghan thought when she became unroyal no one would care. Shocker. Heaven knows their stepping away would not matter to anyone.

IMO if they cared.about the Queen they would have moved back to the UK and actually give the Queen some pleasure.and warmth. Heaven knows they are not doing anything in California.
Kate and William have done a fabulous job with their kids. Totally brilliant.

Does it take work? That would be a yes.
Is it worth it
..you betcha
I am terribly old...as are my cousins
If they call I there. That is what family is about.

 

[millyskate]

Meghan and Harry did leave. They left several years ago. LOL.

I continue to feel that all of the "scandal" around Harry/Meghan says so much more about the BRF than anything else.

When you are such a hidebound and conformist group that you can't handle any member of that group speaking freely about something or having a different outlook than anyone else, it's just messed up.

And apparently it's at the point where it's honestly considered better to be a statutory rapist and general sleaze--as long as you keep your mouth shut in public--than it is to be a couple who have committed no actual crimes but have dared to speak their minds a bit.

Just think about the implications of that.

The concept of statutory rape doesn't exist in the UK and the victim was above the British age of consent at the time. I think that plays a lot into public perception here. There's a feeling that at the time of the occurrence, what Andrew did was essentially use a prostitution service which while most find reprehensible, was known to be an unfortunately frequent occurrence amongst dignitaries and politicians of all kinds.
To this day, in the UK if someone pays for prostitution and the person is a victim of human trafficking, it's not the "client" who gets prosecuted or investigated. In practice, even when the victims being exploited are found to be underage, it's not the "clients" who are investigated either but the police tend to focus on the organisers of the crime ring.

In that sense the treatment of Andrew is consistent with what a British John Doe might experience for a similar offense. In fact, in the UK I'm not sure that paying for sex with a 17 year old is technically an offense. The trafficking aspect is, but in practice is not enforced.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Anyone thinks Harry is spiralling out of control? That comment about "protecting the Queen".... interesting. It sounds like she gave some bad news to him personally and he's having trouble accepting it.

Oh doesn't look that way to me. Just the opposite. Harry's comment was grandstanding. If he really wanted to make a difference for the Queen...get over there with your kids. Actions speak way louder than words.
And the whole " we need need special security....." what a crock. If he is participating in the Queens jubilee...he could not be in a safer place. A gazillion of the Queens best guards will be all over the place.

I don't think Meghan thought when she became unroyal no one would care. Shocker. Heaven knows their stepping away would not matter to anyone.

IMO if they cared.about the Queen they would have moved back to the UK and actually give the Queen some pleasure.and warmth. Heaven knows they are not doing anything in California.

I'd rather listen to H&M speak about racism that hear about Prince Andrews abysmal behaviour which goes way beyond the pale.

Great for all those who can dismiss the need for public discussions about the racism that happens in all parts of society. Lots of us can't. Anyone who's surprised by the suggestion of racism in that family has been living under a rock.

Andrew knows how to behave? He's spent years doing things to bring the Royal family into disrepute but his actions have been brushed under the rug and deflected from in the press. And one of the things reported about him that pre-date H&M...? Yep racist comments and jokes. Like his father. What a chip off the old block.

Gmafb.

Interesting thought but wrong IMO. They are totally self absorbed. IMO she is a piece of work. Looks to me like . There is no proof of Racial comments.

If they could see past their up turned noses they might actually make a difference. If Harry cared about their family he might have noticed that his two kids have three cousins they could get to know and love.

Just a question. What would Diana have done? 10 to one she would have smoshed them together to create relationships that would last lifetime.

I hope Harry grows a couple and do as his mother would have done. Cousin's are great. I have 7 cousins. It is a very special bond.

 

[MsZem]

I think Harry's biggest problem is that his PR was handled by professionals his entire life and now he's trying to do it on his own without any experience whatsoever. It probably would have worked 20 years ago but in the day and age of social media, PR looks like a minefield.

It seems highly unlikely to me that Harry and Meghan aren't working with PR professionals. But ultimately it's their decision how to manage things.

 

[ballettmaus]

I don't think Meghan thought when she became unroyal no one would care. Shocker. Heaven knows their stepping away would not matter to anyone.

I think many would have preferred if she had quietly and smilingly taken her place as the princess at Harry's side and she and Harry had carried out their royal duties alongside Kate and William (as the "Fabulous Four" or whatever). I also think the fact that she hasn't done so and is seen as the driving force behind Harry's exit is why there's so much hatred directed at her. So, one could argue that people do care. A lot, actually.

Interesting thought but wrong IMO. They are totally self absorbed. IMO she is a piece of work. Looks to me like . There is no proof of Racial comments.

I thought it had been confirmed by another party but maybe I'm imagining things?

 

[MacMadame]

Heaven knows they are not doing anything in California.

They are making tv shows and working for Harry's charity that puts on the Invictus Games. And giving speeches for money. And a host of other things. But sure, that's "nothing."

I have 7 cousins. It is a very special bond.

I have no idea how many cousins I have (one of my uncles was a serial impregnator and I lost track of how many kids he had at some point). I haven't seen or talked to any of them in decades.

Even my husband who was close to his cousins growing up isn't now. There is only one we really keep in touch with. The rest we see when we go back East for family events.

Family is what you make of it and dysfunctional families (which the BRF totally qualifies as) are often worse than no family at all.

It seems highly unlikely to me that Harry and Meghan aren't working with PR professionals. But ultimately it's their decision how to manage things.

I would be extremely surprised if they actually listened to them though. I mean do you think they listen to anyone? It sure doesn't seem like it.

 

[mella]

Oh doesn't look that way to me. Just the opposite. Harry's comment was grandstanding. If he really wanted to make a difference for the Queen...get over there with your kids. Actions speak way louder than words.
And the whole " we need need special security....." what a crock. If he is participating in the Queens jubilee...he could not be in a safer place. A gazillion of the Queens best guards will be all over the place.

I don't think Meghan thought when she became unroyal no one would care. Shocker. Heaven knows their stepping away would not matter to anyone.

IMO if they cared.about the Queen they would have moved back to the UK and actually give the Queen some pleasure.and warmth. Heaven knows they are not doing anything in California.

Interesting thought but wrong IMO. They are totally self absorbed. IMO she is a piece of work. Looks to me like . There is no proof of Racial comments.

If they could see past their up turned noses they might actually make a difference. If Harry cared about their family he might have noticed that his two kids have three cousins they could get to know and love.

Just a question. What would Diana have done? 10 to one she would have smoshed them together to create relationships that would last lifetime.

I hope Harry grows a couple and do as his mother would have done. Cousin's are great. I have 7 cousins. It is a very special bond.

Which bit is "wrong"? We're all banding around our opinions in here so mine isn't any more wrong than yours.

There is no "proof" of racial comments - Which ones? The ones alleged by Harry/Megan or the ones alleged against Andrew and Phillip? There rarely is enough proof of racism for those who don't want to see - including those who witness it and become apologists for it. I've lived as a black woman on this planet (in the UK) long enough to have an opinion on when I think allegations of racism and sexism hold water and when they don't. I rarely bother to comment but the implication that Andrew is somehow a "better" royal and hasn't damaged the royal family when compared to Harry and Megan talking about racism? Just no.

The fact that Harry and Megan talking about racist comments being made seems to have been given more air time than Harry dressing up as a nazi back in the day says alot. Back then there were alot of apologists for his "ill advised" choice. I'd suggest that it was more an indicator that it wasn't an outfit that family or friends would find untoward... which tells us something about family attitudes. Now the narrative is that the more recent comments in relation to Archie either weren't made at all or were misunderstood ("recollections may vary"). Add that to the previously reported comments by Andrew and Phillip. Look at some of the ridiculously colonial undertones of the recent royal tour (that apparently Will, Kate and nary a single advisor recognised). Look at William's half arsed response when the racist comment claim was made (complete with photo of William and Kate accompanied by a black aide - first such photo I can ever recall seeing of a royal) - cringingly reminiscent of the bloke down the pub telling a racist joke then saying he's not racist cos he's got a black friend!

Come on... let's join these dots together and consider what the reality here might be! At the very least these people are comfortable with/ incapable of recognising casual racism. I hope they're not hardcore racists but casual, unaware racism causes just as many problems as overt abuse. Just in a different way.

In the round I'm far less impressed than Harry and Megan than I hoped I would be based on the early indicators. In fact I'm not overly impressed by them at all at this stage. And almost every time one of them opens their mouths these days I roll my eyes. Harry talking about wanting his grandmother to be protected most sounds ridiculous (as it would from anyone else, but wouldn't get the reaction that it has) given who she is. Although an earlier poster made fair comments on what his perspective might be on that.

But the vilification? And the suggestion they should not talk about their experiences? The suggestion that they've made up racism claims and thats what's damaging the royal family. Its not right.

 

[mella]

The concept of statutory rape doesn't exist in the UK and the victim was above the British age of consent at the time. I think that plays a lot into public perception here. There's a feeling that at the time of the occurrence, what Andrew did was essentially use a prostitution service which while most find reprehensible, was known to be an unfortunately frequent occurrence amongst dignitaries and politicians of all kinds.
To this day, in the UK if someone pays for prostitution and the person is a victim of human trafficking, it's not the "client" who gets prosecuted or investigated. In practice, even when the victims being exploited are found to be underage, it's not the "clients" who are investigated either but the police tend to focus on the organisers of the crime ring.

In that sense the treatment of Andrew is consistent with what a British John Doe might experience for a similar offense. In fact, in the UK I'm not sure that paying for sex with a 17 year old is technically an offense. The trafficking aspect is, but in practice is not enforced.

I think the concept of statutory rape exists but our definition is different and wouldn't cover this situation?

Otherwise ITA about attitudes to this situation in the UK. I find it unnerving because whilst she was above the UK age of consent everything about the situation is so utterly abhorrent there are no words. Her age should be immaterial altgough the fact that she was so young adds a layer of grimness. But on the whole the lack of proper action against "clients" in these circumstances regardless of the age of the victim and the failure of the law to address the gaps even now is disgusting.

 

[allezfred]

But the vilification? And the suggestion they should not talk about their experiences? The suggestion that they've made up racism claims and thats what's damaging the royal family. Its not right.

It says a lot about those people who are more offended by being confronted with the fact that racism (or sexism or homophobia etc) exists than they are by the actual racism itself.

 

[antmanb]

The concept of statutory rape doesn't exist in the UK and the victim was above the British age of consent at the time.

That's not strictly speaking true. We don't have an offence called "statutory rape" but very similar concepts do carry criminal liability. There are various sexual assault charges for having sex or carrying out sexual acts with children of various ages - under 13 it's classed as rape, between the ages of 13-16 it's sexual assault and between the ages of 16-18 there are circumstances that give rise to assault charges too (where a person abuses a position they hold over the child) I don't think it would be too difficult to successfully argue that a victim of sexual trafficking would come under that final category.

In any event trying to paint Harry as some how "worse" than Andrew is jaw droppingly wrong.

 

[puglover]

I am certainly not defending Prince Andrew but older wealthy men with young and beautiful women was quite common in my teens and twenties. Jerry Lee Lewis and his 13 year old cousin, Rolling Stones and 13/14 year olds, Elvis 24 - Priscilla 14, Don Johnson 24 Melanie 15 - or on the other side - Fergie 23 - Justin Timberlake 16. I doubt groupies hanging out at stage doors were checked for birth certificates. We (at least me) did not understand age, power imbalance, experience, as being determining factors in consent at the time. One of my best friends was with Peter Nyguard (old enough to be her father) and we weren't scandalized by it.

 

[Wyliefan]

We (at least me) did not understand age, power imbalance, experience, as being determining factors in consent at the time.

But now you do, I hope.

 

[puglover]

But now you do, I hope.

Yes, now I do and I realize not everything was better "in the good old days". I am so grateful for the forward thinkers who looked objectively at the status quo and called it for what it really was. I would never have believed the "Me too" movement would have the impact it has and I am so happy I lived to see the day that perpetrators are being held responsible.

 

[overedge]

I am certainly not defending Prince Andrew but older wealthy men with young and beautiful women was quite common in my teens and twenties.

He was screwing young women that Epstein was basically enslaving and pimping out to his network of "friends". That is wrong no matter what the age difference is or when it happened. It's not the same as a younger woman and older man going out on a date or being a romantic couple.

 

[canbelto]

I think the issue is that these girls were not "girlfriends" or "groupies." They were teens who were around basically to be sex playthings for Epstein and his buddies.

I also think that the BRF's non-chalant attitude towards it (as well as the Queen favoring him over other children) has made people think less of the BRF. It's not guilt-by-association so much as guilt-by-silence.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Which bit is "wrong"? We're all banding around our opinions in here so mine isn't any more wrong than yours.

There is no "proof" of racial comments - Which ones? The ones alleged by Harry/Megan or the ones alleged against Andrew and Phillip? There rarely is enough proof of racism for those who don't want to see - including those who witness it and become apologists for it. I've lived as a black woman on this planet (in the UK) long enough to have an opinion on when I think allegations of racism and sexism hold water and when they don't. I rarely bother to comment but the implication that Andrew is somehow a "better" royal and hasn't damaged the royal family when compared to Harry and Megan talking about racism? Just no.

The fact that Harry and Megan talking about racist comments being made seems to have been given more air time than Harry dressing up as a nazi back in the day says alot. Back then there were alot of apologists for his "ill advised" choice. I'd suggest that it was more an indicator that it wasn't an outfit that family or friends would find untoward... which tells us something about family attitudes. Now the narrative is that the more recent comments in relation to Archie either weren't made at all or were misunderstood ("recollections may vary"). Add that to the previously reported comments by Andrew and Phillip. Look at some of the ridiculously colonial undertones of the recent royal tour (that apparently Will, Kate and nary a single advisor recognised). Look at William's half arsed response when the racist comment claim was made (complete with photo of William and Kate accompanied by a black aide - first such photo I can ever recall seeing of a royal) - cringingly reminiscent of the bloke down the pub telling a racist joke then saying he's not racist cos he's got a black friend!

Come on... let's join these dots together and consider what the reality here might be! At the very least these people are comfortable with/ incapable of recognising casual racism. I hope they're not hardcore racists but casual, unaware racism causes just as many problems as overt abuse. Just in a different way.

In the round I'm far less impressed than Harry and Megan than I hoped I would be based on the early indicators. In fact I'm not overly impressed by them at all at this stage. And almost every time one of them opens their mouths these days I roll my eyes. Harry talking about wanting his grandmother to be protected most sounds ridiculous (as it would from anyone else, but wouldn't get the reaction that it has) given who she is. Although an earlier poster made fair comments on what his perspective might be on that.

But the vilification? And the suggestion they should not talk about their experiences? The suggestion that they've made up racism claims and thats what's damaging the royal family. Its not right.

Sure, they can speak "their truth" even if it is not based in reality. And Harry has always been a bit of a mess - A prince dressing as a Nazi? who in the world thought that was OK?

At the very least these people are comfortable with/ incapable of recognising casual racism. I hope they're not hardcore racists but casual, unaware racism causes just as many problems as overt abuse. Just in a different way.

Not sure what "casual racism" is. And making a false statement re Racism should not be condoned. Phillip has come a long way as had her majesty. At one point in time, when capturing blacks was accepted. People and societies evolve. And it appears that the BRF has done so on this issue.
P
There was a time in this country when Women could not vote. That, of course has changed.

Not ignoring comments and feelings.....right now it is popular to claim "racist" when you (the collective you) do not agree or accept what is being said. When something is said, it is easy to dismiss the comment(s) as racist than it is to actually address what is being asserted. Throwing out the validity of things you don't like and claiming "Racist" short circuit the issue.

We have real problems in this country, and we need real people to address the actual problems with real solutions. Saying "what ever" is racist does not help solve the problem.

Have you ever had a conversation with numbers tattooed on their arm? I have had the privileged and sorrow to have included some in as friends. Now, THAT is racism. I am a Jew. (started out as a Catholic, and then went to see Dachau. Can't explain it, but I just knew I was a Jew)

One husband and wife escaped Auschwitz and had to go through Germany to find relief workers.


People can be evil, uneducated or just thoughtless. Uneducated people can be taught. Thoughtless people can learn. Evil......forget it.

 

[overedge]

Sure, they can speak "their truth" even if it is not based in reality.

Their truth is based on their perceptions. That is no more or less "real" than anyone else's perceptions.

At the very least these people are comfortable with/ incapable of recognising casual racism. I hope they're not hardcore racists but casual, unaware racism causes just as many problems as overt abuse. Just in a different way.

Not sure what "casual racism" is.

"I can't be racist because I have a Black friend"
"That person's hair/outfit/accent is weird"
"Those people just don't fit in"
"This country was founded on [whatever] and people who come here should accept that"
"That's a very unusual name, where were you born?"
"That food is stinky"

Google it or read up on it, there's lots more examples out there.

 

[MacMadame]

Another name for casual racism is microaggressions. Each one seems minor but they all sting and it adds up.

I am certainly not defending Prince Andrew but older wealthy men with young and beautiful women was quite common in my teens and twenties. Jerry Lee Lewis and his 13 year old cousin, Rolling Stones and 13/14 year olds, Elvis 24 - Priscilla 14, Don Johnson 24 Melanie 15 - or on the other side - Fergie 23 - Justin Timberlake 16. I doubt groupies hanging out at stage doors were checked for birth certificates. We (at least me) did not understand age, power imbalance, experience, as being determining factors in consent at the time. One of my best friends was with Peter Nyguard (old enough to be her father) and we weren't scandalized by it.

I would not say that these things were just accepted though. Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his 13-year-old cousin was looked at sideways at the time. And people gossiped about it his entire life. The same with Elvis and Pricilla. Some people were modified by them saying they waited until a certain age to do certain things but people definitely talked about it and it raised eyebrows when brought up.