Unpopular Opinions

[Vagabond]

The thing about Jason Brown is that there's always been skaters with the most exquisite artistry who for one reason or another did not have the technical chops or consistency to make it to the top of the podium.

Think of Johnny Weir, Karen Chen, Paul Wylie, Carolina Kostner, in some ways Sasha Cohen, etc.

When I think of Carolina Kostner, I think of how she stood on top of the World podium in 2012.

 

[skateboy]

When I think of Carolina Kostner, I think of how she stood on top of the World podium in 2012.

I'd totally forgotten that.

 

[once_upon]

Uh...I think every "generation" of skaters, fans talk about the sport becoming a jump only thing.
Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, Irina S? All called jumping beans and how 3/3 were going to ruin the sport.

Same with Tim G - only jumps. And how that would be the downfall.

I'm to young to know Dick Button's double Axel impact, but I suspect the same thing was said then.

Sport gets pushed, some like, some don't. But in the end, it is what skaters do to win.

 

[VGThuy]

I never thought Sasha Cohen was all that artistic. She was extremely flexible and hit great static positions, but her musical interpretation was pretty one-note.

Agreed. The only time I truly liked her skates on an artistic level were in Torino. Every other time, the depth of her musical interpretation seemed as shallow as her edges.

 

[DreamSkates]

IDK if this is a minority opinion or not, but code-whoring by Eteri & Co. has been taken to a whole new level (but I acknowledge it has been practiced on a lower level continuously) and has sacrificed basic levels of good SS in women's competitions, making lower-ranked skaters more pleasant to watch than actual medalists - 2021 Worlds.

I never got V/M and their skating did nothing for me.

That is how you win. Figure out how to user the points system to your skater’s best advantage. Or, skate for anything but winning.
Winning international events means something different in different countries/cultures.
US: individualism rules. If you live in a country where community rules, you might have more motivation to work harder and win for your country not just yourself. Winning for your country is my schedule bigger than you.

 

[DreamSkates]

I am a big fan of Jason Brown's skating (we even share the same birthday!) and he has such a winning personality, however...

After he was so upset and depressed (his words) not to make the 2018 Olympic team, I'm sorry to see he has not taken advantage of getting his quads in order. All he needed were toe and salchow. I mean, he's a top level skater and has had eight years. He could have been a multiple world medalist. And now he's in danger -- again -- of not making the team.

(I'm sorry... but this IS called "Unpopular Opinions.")

And the unpopular reply. Are there skaters who will not be able to land quads in a competition no matter how long they’ve been working toward and practicing same?

 

[Japanfan]

The thing about Jason Brown is that there's always been skaters with the most exquisite artistry who for one reason or another did not have the technical chops or consistency to make it to the top of the podium.

Think of Johnny Weir, Karen Chen, Paul Wylie, Carolina Kostner, in some ways Sasha Cohen, etc. In that regard, I actually don't think Jason is THAT artistic. I;'m not comparing him to Nathan Chen or Plushenko. I'm comparing him to the other skaters who were high on artistry and lacking in jump consistency.

I don't think of Jason Brown as having exquisite artistry actually - I think of him as a fine performer.

 

[Alilou]

And the unpopular reply. Are there skaters who will not be able to land quads in a competition no matter how long they’ve been working toward and practicing same?

Jason has said in an interview that of course he would do quads if he could. He's tried and tried and it just hasn't happened for him, and when your success rate is one in 20 you don't put it out in competition. Pretty sure it was the interview with Lilah Fear on The Lilah Jo Show.

 

[On My Own]

I never thought Sasha Cohen was all that artistic. She was extremely flexible and hit great static positions, but her musical interpretation was pretty one-note.

Exactly my view on Brown...

Think of Johnny Weir, Karen Chen, Paul Wylie, Carolina Kostner, in some ways Sasha Cohen, etc.

Right. And if I compare him to people like Takahashi and Lambiel, he neither has the tech content, nor is as good as them. (imagine how Takahashi might do Sinnerman)

 

[olympic]

That is how you win. Figure out how to user the points system to your skater’s best advantage. Or, skate for anything but winning.
Winning international events means something different in different countries/cultures.
US: individualism rules. If you live in a country where community rules, you might have more motivation to work harder and win for your country not just yourself. Winning for your country is my schedule bigger than you.

Fair point, but this an unpopular opinion thread, so I guess some people were bound to disagree w/ me

 

[gotoschool]

Over the last two weeks, the ISU has practiced overt discrimination and big scoring deflation of Japanese and Korean skaters which deprived Young You of at least a silver, Kaori Sakamoto of bronze, Mai Mihara of bronze, and slashed Haein Lee's tech mercilessly by 10 points and given Mai and Haein Lee even more severely deflated PCS for impressive artistry and skating skills, while attaching inflated Political Connection Scores to inflated tech ONLY when it served the purpose to bolster Eteri favorites, for example, notice how Mai Mihara's PCS was lowballed far below Kostornaia's despite the fact that Mai had superior artistry and consistency in execution, HIGHER TECH by 4 to 5 points, and better skating skills and steps through the entire long program. Furthermore, first year senior Kamila Valieva who admittedly has amazing jumps but inferior expression, performance and skating skills to Mai Mihara or Haein Lee receives almost 10 to 12 points more in PCS. This isn't only erroneous but completely inverted scoring, and when sky high GOE and almost complete tech immunity are given as well as sky high GOE for jumps with big pre rotation and little flow or bent over landings only for favorites the scores and criteria themselves bear no resemblance to reality and enter the realm of fantasy inflation. For me this has been going on for so long against Asian skaters especially that big scoring reparations for years of lowballing, or reverse lowballing, are the only thing that will make amends in my mind for such egregious and systematic judging transgressions. The thing is that the Eteri skaters would have done really well without the ISU resorting to this hoodwinking techniques. but instead the result is a complete distrust of the judges or rather a trust that they will manipulate shamelessly for their favorites. As it is, viewers in my opinion have been left to decide for themselves what they like best including the elements they prefer to see and their intrinsic valuation including techwise not doing extreme pre rotation on take off or biased edge and rotation calls, since the judges themselves do not follow their own stated criteria and hence have undermined the very fundamentals of the system as well as its rigged implementation. I haven't followed the comparative scoring of other skaters, but I think that 4CC's and national competitions are the only ones that have any possibility for legitimacy in relative placement or scoring.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Over the last two weeks, the ISU has practiced overt discrimination and big scoring deflation of Japanese and Korean skaters which deprived Young You of at least a silver, Kaori Sakamoto of bronze, Mai Mihara of bronze, and slashed Haein Lee's tech mercilessly by 10 points and given Mai and Haein Lee even more severely deflated PCS for impressive artistry and skating skills, while attaching inflated Political Connection Scores to inflated tech ONLY when it served the purpose to bolster Eteri favorites, for example, notice how Mai Mihara's PCS was lowballed far below Kostornaia's despite the fact that Mai had superior artistry and consistency in execution, HIGHER TECH by 4 to 5 points, and better skating skills and steps through the entire long program. Furthermore, first year senior Kamila Valieva who admittedly has amazing jumps but inferior expression, performance and skating skills to Mai Mihara or Haein Lee receives almost 10 to 12 points more in PCS. This isn't only erroneous but completely inverted scoring, and when sky high GOE and almost complete tech immunity are given as well as sky high GOE for jumps with big pre rotation and little flow or bent over landings only for favorites the scores and criteria themselves bear no resemblance to reality and enter the realm of fantasy inflation. For me this has been going on for so long against Asian skaters especially that big scoring reparations for years of lowballing, or reverse lowballing, are the only thing that will make amends in my mind for such egregious and systematic judging transgressions. The thing is that the Eteri skaters would have done really well without the ISU resorting to this hoodwinking techniques. but instead the result is a complete distrust of the judges or rather a trust that they will manipulate shamelessly for their favorites. As it is, viewers in my opinion have been left to decide for themselves what they like best including the elements they prefer to see and their intrinsic valuation including techwise not doing extreme pre rotation on take off or biased edge and rotation calls, since the judges themselves do not follow their own stated criteria and hence have undermined the very fundamentals of the system as well as its rigged implementation. I haven't followed the comparative scoring of other skaters, but I think that 4CC's and national competitions are the only ones that have any possibility for legitimacy in relative placement or scoring.

I refuse to read this wall of text and code of points jargon,however I choose to agree with the overall sentiment—particularly regarding our American ladies.

-BB

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Over the last two weeks, the ISU has practiced overt discrimination and big scoring deflation of Japanese and Korean skaters which , etc.

The judges, I think, are being told to correlate PCS with tech (jump) scores. This has been going on for years. Who can forget Sotnikova's 2 point PCS goose at Sochi? As you say the scores would be very good anyway - why inflate?

The other point you make is the public decides what they like to see. Even today someone with a beautiful spiral (K. Chen) or a great Russian split jump (Jason) gets enthusiastic applause. Some fans don't just want to see jumps.

 

[rfisher]

My clearly unpopular opinion is that this thread has now jumped the proverbial shark and is no longer unpopular. Is this the mean, I mean popular, girls table?

 

[thvu]

My clearly unpopular opinion is that this thread has now jumped the proverbial shark and is no longer unpopular. Is this the mean, I mean popular, girls table?

It's Wednesday and I'm wearing pink.

 

[jamesy]

My clearly unpopular opinion is that this thread has now jumped the proverbial shark and is no longer unpopular. Is this the mean, I mean popular, girls table?

Psst...pass it on: Leonova’s pregnant.

 

[Marco]

Over the last two weeks, the ISU has practiced overt discrimination and big scoring deflation of Japanese and Korean skaters which deprived Young You of at least a silver, Kaori Sakamoto of bronze, Mai Mihara of bronze, and slashed Haein Lee's tech mercilessly by 10 points and given Mai and Haein Lee even more severely deflated PCS for impressive artistry and skating skills, while attaching inflated Political Connection Scores to inflated tech ONLY when it served the purpose to bolster Eteri favorites, for example, notice how Mai Mihara's PCS was lowballed far below Kostornaia's despite the fact that Mai had superior artistry and consistency in execution, HIGHER TECH by 4 to 5 points, and better skating skills and steps through the entire long program. Furthermore, first year senior Kamila Valieva who admittedly has amazing jumps but inferior expression, performance and skating skills to Mai Mihara or Haein Lee receives almost 10 to 12 points more in PCS. This isn't only erroneous but completely inverted scoring, and when sky high GOE and almost complete tech immunity are given as well as sky high GOE for jumps with big pre rotation and little flow or bent over landings only for favorites the scores and criteria themselves bear no resemblance to reality and enter the realm of fantasy inflation. For me this has been going on for so long against Asian skaters especially that big scoring reparations for years of lowballing, or reverse lowballing, are the only thing that will make amends in my mind for such egregious and systematic judging transgressions. The thing is that the Eteri skaters would have done really well without the ISU resorting to this hoodwinking techniques. but instead the result is a complete distrust of the judges or rather a trust that they will manipulate shamelessly for their favorites. As it is, viewers in my opinion have been left to decide for themselves what they like best including the elements they prefer to see and their intrinsic valuation including techwise not doing extreme pre rotation on take off or biased edge and rotation calls, since the judges themselves do not follow their own stated criteria and hence have undermined the very fundamentals of the system as well as its rigged implementation. I haven't followed the comparative scoring of other skaters, but I think that 4CC's and national competitions are the only ones that have any possibility for legitimacy in relative placement or scoring.

Actually for me, the most criminal over-scoring was on Liza.

 

[cheremary]

Not sure if this counts as an unpopular opinion, but it bugs me when underrotations are called carrots. My guess is that it came from the word caret, which is ^ (also called a circumflex). A <, which is what marks underrotations on protocol sheets, is literally just called a less than sign. So not only are underrotations not marked with a caret, it is most definitely not a carrot that can be eaten (by Mariah’s bunnies or anyone ).

 

[olympic]

Over the last two weeks, the ISU has practiced overt discrimination and big scoring deflation of Japanese and Korean skaters which deprived Young You of at least a silver, Kaori Sakamoto of bronze, Mai Mihara of bronze, and slashed Haein Lee's tech mercilessly by 10 points and given Mai and Haein Lee even more severely deflated PCS for impressive artistry and skating skills, while attaching inflated Political Connection Scores to inflated tech ONLY when it served the purpose to bolster Eteri favorites, for example, notice how Mai Mihara's PCS was lowballed far below Kostornaia's despite the fact that Mai had superior artistry and consistency in execution, HIGHER TECH by 4 to 5 points, and better skating skills and steps through the entire long program. Furthermore, first year senior Kamila Valieva who admittedly has amazing jumps but inferior expression, performance and skating skills to Mai Mihara or Haein Lee receives almost 10 to 12 points more in PCS. This isn't only erroneous but completely inverted scoring, and when sky high GOE and almost complete tech immunity are given as well as sky high GOE for jumps with big pre rotation and little flow or bent over landings only for favorites the scores and criteria themselves bear no resemblance to reality and enter the realm of fantasy inflation. For me this has been going on for so long against Asian skaters especially that big scoring reparations for years of lowballing, or reverse lowballing, are the only thing that will make amends in my mind for such egregious and systematic judging transgressions. The thing is that the Eteri skaters would have done really well without the ISU resorting to this hoodwinking techniques. but instead the result is a complete distrust of the judges or rather a trust that they will manipulate shamelessly for their favorites. As it is, viewers in my opinion have been left to decide for themselves what they like best including the elements they prefer to see and their intrinsic valuation including techwise not doing extreme pre rotation on take off or biased edge and rotation calls, since the judges themselves do not follow their own stated criteria and hence have undermined the very fundamentals of the system as well as its rigged implementation. I haven't followed the comparative scoring of other skaters, but I think that 4CC's and national competitions are the only ones that have any possibility for legitimacy in relative placement or scoring.

If you are talking about SkAm, I think Usacheva was held up a bit in the LP even if she placed behind You and Sakamoto in the LP (I didn't see the SP), but I would have scored Usacheva even lower in the LP, and You and Sakamoto should have placed on the podium. There is something kinda junior-ish about Daria's skating, even if she is quite capable in executing the elements.

 

[clairecloutier]

If you are talking about SkAm, I think Usacheva was held up a bit in the LP even if she placed behind You and Sakamoto in the LP (I didn't see the SP), but I would have scored Usacheva even lower in the LP, and You and Sakamoto should have placed on the podium. There is something kinda junior-ish about Daria's skating, even if she is quite capable in executing the elements.

There's also no restraint in Usacheva's skating. Every moment it's another back arch, arm flourish, or something. At a certain point it loses effectiveness, because there are no pauses.

 

[briancoogaert]

Look at the Skating Skills only : it's absolutely ridiculous to judge Satoko Miyahara behind any russian. She probably has the best SS actually on the scene.

 

[olympic]

Eteri has perhaps accomplished something greater: Exposed flaws in the IJS system. They really need to decouple TES and PCS, and some (but not all) of her skaters are the poster children for that.

 

[antmanb]

The thing about Jason Brown is that there's always been skaters with the most exquisite artistry who for one reason or another did not have the technical chops or consistency to make it to the top of the podium.

Think of Johnny Weir, Karen Chen, Paul Wylie, Carolina Kostner, in some ways Sasha Cohen, etc.

When I think of Carolina Kostner, I think of how she stood on top of the World podium in 2012.

Or the FIVE European Championship podiums she stood on top of.

 

[Vash01]

I hate RD. It makes me not want to watch ice dance. I loved Compulsory Dances in the past. The original dance was ok, but RD has awful music and the dances are uninteresting to me (except for the top skaters). Today I got bored watching even P/C's RD.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I hate RD. It makes me not want to watch ice dance. I loved Compulsory Dances in the past. The original dance was ok, but RD has awful music and the dances are uninteresting to me (except for the top skaters). Today I got bored watching even P/C's RD.

I hate hate this years RD. This is the worst theme dance for the rhythm dance I have ever seen. It’s one stop away from hooker and pimp rhythm dance. Not sorry

 

[olympic]

There's also no restraint in Usacheva's skating. Every moment it's another back arch, arm flourish, or something. At a certain point it loses effectiveness, because there are no pauses.

Which probably leads to the problem discussed in my last post: Daria's elements and connecting moves all build points but they don't lend themselves to an aesthetically pleasing program or create a moment in the way Kaori does (Young You has her own choreo issues, but she still has a purer skating style than Daria)

 

[Spikefan]

This isn’t an unpopular opinion per se, but I do find it amusing how we scream at skaters to go back to XYZ program and then scream at other skaters for going back to XYZ program. I’m as guilty of it as anyone. Probably best they ignore us (except Kolyada).

 

[rfisher]

My apparently unpopular opinion: I like the RDs this year. They could be Latin. A hundred Despacitos anyone?

 

[canbelto]

I like P/C's RD better than their FD this year.

 

[tylersf]

Another unpopular opinion:
You need quad jumps to win in 2021-2022 for both mens and ladies events. When people who finish in 11th place at Grand Prix events with at least 2 quads for the men, you can't tell me that a program with no quads can still win.