Russian Ladies news & discussion

[Ananas Astra]

I think anyone who likes a Russian lady skater should enjoy their successes as they happen rather than constantly looking to the future.

But I suppose half the intrigue is seeing how long the ladies can sustain the ultra success.

Although as a huge Tukt fan, it’s pretty surreal seeing her back on the World podium after 6 years! So who knows what can happen with any of these girls!

I agree. The Russian ladies are just delivering and delivering and delivering.
What a time to be alive.

 

[starrynight]

But it is a pretty interesting situation that the lady who won worlds did it without a triple axel or a quad.

I do wonder if everything will go 'quad crazy' for the Olympics though, as I'm sure the sport will be attention seeking and the idea of a girl who jumps quads or a triple axel will be very marketable.

But then of course we now have another year to count down and to see if these bodies can sustain the demands of quads.

 

[hanca]

But it is a pretty interesting situation that the lady who won worlds did it without a triple axel or a quad.

I do wonder if everything will go 'quad crazy' for the Olympics though, as I'm sure the sport will be attention seeking and the idea of a girl who jumps quads or a triple axel will be very marketable.

But then of course we now have another year to count down and to see if these bodies can sustain the demands of quads.

Isn’t it the same as when Jeffrey Buttle won the worlds in 2008 without quads? Or Lysacek at the Olympics at 2010? But look where we are now with men - Chen has 5 quads in his FS, Uno 4 quads, Kagiyama 3 quads, Hanyu four quads, Kolyada & Messing & Semenenko & Aymos two quads...

I think for current ladies going without the harder elements is a risk. It may pay off to be clean with easier program if the others mess up, but the more ladies will try the harder jumps, the less chance is that they will all mess up and one could easily miss the podium by playing it safe. When it was just Mao Asada with the harder element, that’s one thing, but now you have three Russian ladies trying it, Japanese ladies trying it, Korean lady trying it... Would one want to rely that they will all mess up?

 

[NAOTMAA]

I think the quad, for the ladies discipline as a whole, is still young enough that the non-quad ladies could get away with without having one for the next 2-3 years. Perhaps if lucky even a little bit longer. Not enough ladies are currently attempting it competitively on a consistent basis and even those who do aren't exactly stone solid on it. I mean we just had a world championships where the 4th place finisher didn't even attempt a single 3-3! When was the last time that happened?

 

[starrynight]

It's been the most disjointed season since the war time, so it's not surprising to me that things have been weird.

The only question that remains unanswered about the quads is how long ladies can keep them into adulthood and whether this can become a global standard in ladies, like it has with men. Maybe they will - but women do have quite different physiology to the men.

The current model where there are a heap of 12/13/14 year old Russian girls capable of being endlessly cycled through to the top is something that is statistically unlikely to last forever. And it's also doesn't represent the sport on a global scale.

Will the ladies quad remain a wunderkind phenomenon? If it relies on a mass of girls training hyper-elite from 11 or 12 years old and then swapped out at 18 or so, it may not be a long term sustainable thing across the sport on international lines. Particularly in countries where kids have to go to school and there is not national funding or even a pool of talent to churn through.

Whereas we are at a point where male skaters from a wide range of countries and training circumstances can land quads. Will we get to a point where the ladies can do that? But I think at this point, for a lady to do a quad, it seems like it requires really specialised training circumstances and a window of opportunity.

I think for quite a while we will see a small number of girls with quads and then ladies without them picking up medals when mistakes are made. I think it's going to be much harder to get quads the international standard in ladies than it has been in men.

 

[love_skate2011]

It may be quite unpopular opinion, but I think Kostornaya should be in either Backbenchers or in Wildcards. I don’t think that at this time she belongs into A team.

I think for Kostornaia its not too late, she returned to Tut before the off season, she has time to adjust
I have no doubt if she gets back her 3 Axel, she will be back in contention

Her season so far reminds me of Lipnitskaya, after struggling the previous season, Lipnitskaya came back strong during the Olympic season. Kostornaia or Valieva is my pick for the highest chance of winning OGM

 

[Spun Silver]

It's been the most disjointed season since the war time, so it's not surprising to me that things have been weird.

The only question that remains unanswered about the quads is how long ladies can keep them into adulthood and whether this can become a global standard in ladies, like it has with men. Maybe they will - but women do have quite different physiology to the men.

The current model where there are a heap of 12/13/14 year old Russian girls capable of being endlessly cycled through to the top is something that is statistically unlikely to last forever. And it's also doesn't represent the sport on a global scale.

Will the ladies quad remain a wunderkind phenomenon? If it relies on a mass of girls training hyper-elite from 11 or 12 years old and then swapped out at 18 or so, it may not be a long term sustainable thing across the sport on international lines. Particularly in countries where kids have to go to school and there is not national funding or even a pool of talent to churn through.

Whereas we are at a point where male skaters from a wide range of countries and training circumstances can land quads. Will we get to a point where the ladies can do that? But I think at this point, for a lady to do a quad, it seems like it requires really specialised training circumstances and a window of opportunity.

I think for quite a while we will see a small number of girls with quads and then ladies without them picking up medals when mistakes are made. I think it's going to be much harder to get quads the international standard in ladies than it has been in men.

Yeah... but the 3A is another matter. Mirai Nagasu is a shining example of the 3A being fully acquired well after puberty, and so you now have all the top US ladies (even Mariah IIRC) working on adding it. Amber has landed at least one beauty in practice. We shall see about Bradie and Karen. At any rate, a 3A or two will make an even bigger difference if quads are not in the picture.

 

[starrynight]

The triple axel is a curious jump.

There's a few ladies/juniors who can reel off quads but can't do the triple axel.

And the ladies that are really good at it are usually older and not built like pencils.

Is that because the axel requires more control?

 

[Xela M]

I think it's more likely the 3A will have more longevity in ladies skating than any quad. Those who have the 3A can sustain it well into adulthood, whereas the quad appears to require more of a pre-pubescent body in a lady

 

[Coco]

I remember commentators stating that axel jumps required a lot of upper body strength to get the body on the rotating axis and to continue rotating on that axis. That might be one reason you see skaters who can do quads but not 3a.

Also, taking off from a forward edge is a completely different ball game from taking off backwards, even if you pre-rotate. Whole different set of muscles allow for those edges to be secure.

 

[hanca]

I think for Kostornaia its not too late, she returned to Tut before the off season, she has time to adjust
I have no doubt if she gets back her 3 Axel, she will be back in contention

Her season so far reminds me of Lipnitskaya, after struggling the previous season, Lipnitskaya came back strong during the Olympic season. Kostornaia or Valieva is my pick for the highest chance of winning OGM

I think it is too late for her. Not because she wouldn’t be able to get to her previous level -she probably will- but because of the level of competition in Russia. I don’t think the level that she was on when she was on top would be enough. when she was competing last year, the only other ‘serious’ competitors for her were Trusova and Scherbakova. She kept beating Trusova because Trusova was very inconsistent and kept falling from her quads. She kept beating Scherbakova because even though she had much lower technical base value, she was able to make it up on GOE and PCS. There was no other strong competition because Valieva, Usacheva and Khromykh were still juniors and were not ready to be any threat to her, and Tuktamysheva never skated seven (or eight) triples FS.

The situation has changed. Next season she won’t be only competing against Trusova and Scherbakova. Valieva, Usacheva and Khromykh are suddenly threat to her. And Tuktamysheva has shown this season that she won’t just disappear without a fight. Even in her strongest, Kostornaya was relying on Trusova making mistakes on quads and beating Scherbakova on PCS and GOE. The only problem with this strategy is that even if Trusova again makes mistakes on quads, the number of quads still gives her an advantage (she was first in the FS at this worlds even with two falls). And even if it didn’t give her any advantage, there is still 5 other girls (Tuktamysheva, Valieva, Scherbakova, Khromykh and Usacheva) who may not do the mistakes. In fact, I expect Scherbakova’s PCS to be much higher than before because she is the world champion. Valieva, Usacheva and Khromykh will probably also have pretty decent PCS, so suddenly Kostornaya may lose the chance to make up lower base value with her GOE and PCS. The only way Kostornaya could get back, would be if she had not only 3A, but also at least one quad. She is now behind the others and catching up for lost time is not easy.

 

[love_skate2011]

Kromykh may have landed the quads as a fluke, Usacheva has no quads or axel. I dont think these two are threats
they are considered stepsisters or backbenchers. a side critic, these two also lack any personality.

I think Med may bid a final farewell if she tries this Olympics season at the Russian Championships
I dont think Alina will even attempt a comeback, she is so out of shape now.

From what we have seen even at these recent Championships, never count anyone out.
Kostornaia if she regains her top form will be Russia's No.1 bet because she has the package and consisitency.

 

[Evgeniafan]

I don't think Evgenia is going to retire. She is still skating. Even if she doesn't make the Olympics, she will continue on.

 

[love_skate2011]

I don't think Evgenia is going to retire. She is still skating. Even if she doesn't make the Olympics, she will continue on.

maybe, but will she be contented with bronzes ? she needas to up her tech.

Also I can already picture Med skating at 2022 Russian Nationals making a Mao or Miki last swan song that was bitter pill to swallow
placing between 9-13th place.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Evgenia is never going to retire. RSF will keep her on the team just because they make money off of her. Maybe she'll get Finlandia, bomb as expected, and still remain 'active' for the next ten years.

 

[love_skate2011]

Evgenia is never going to retire. RSF will keep her on the team just because they make money off of her. Maybe she'll get Finlandia, bomb as expected, and still remain 'active' for the next ten years.

C'mon what about Alina ? at least Evgenia has more chance of making a comeback
by next Olympics if Russia wins the Ladies OGM, Im sure the hype media train will follow.

 

[Ka3sha]

Short interview with Liza Tuktamysheva after winning silver

Елизавета Туктамышева: «Я всё еще до конца не осознаю своего счастья»

Российская фигуристка Елизавета Туктамышева рассказала о своих эмоциях после завоевания серебряной медали на чемпионате мира в Стокгольме.

matchtv.ru

- Yesterday it seemed that you don't understand what has happened. The night has passed, today is a new day - now can you say how the girl who became the vice-champion of the World feels?
- I think I had very strong emotions last night, I slept badly because of this, there were a lot of congratulations. Today everything has calmed down, and I still do not fully realize my happiness. Probably, I will come to St. Petersburg and only after a while I will understand what I have done for myself, my career and for figure skating. Now I'm just resting calmly.
--
- Six years ago you won the World Championship. Everyone knows about the progress you have achieved in technical aspect since then, but what about psychology? What has changed?
- During these six years I have progressed not only as figure skater, but also as a person. Psychologically, I try to develop myself and tune in to competitions a little differently, so I am more consistent and confident. It seems to me that the age from eighteen to about thirty, is the time when you strive to perceive all possible information around you. A very productive period. I am now twenty-four, and, naturally, my attitude has changed. I have become more mature, a little wiser. I love the way I develop.
- I read your post on Instagram that you dedicate your medal here to all women in figure skating. Can you tell us in more detail what do you mean?
- With this medal and my skating, I wanted to set an example that life in figure skating is just starting after eighteen, and you should never give up. It is for those girls who think that it is impossible to achieve anything else, who have no motivation. No, anything is possible. The further, the more interesting each year of life is. When you overcome yourself, it is very valuable, and it is definitely worth working, developing and not giving up what you started.

 

[Tobbe]

I think the GP will be crucial for the Russian girls to show off what they can do and convince RusFed they are in the running for an Olympic spot.

But unfortunately, there are too many Russian girls, so many great skaters won't even get a GP.

We have Shcherbakova, Trusova, Kostornaia, Tuktamysheva, Valieva, Usacheva, Khromykh. That's seven girls. Only two more can get GP spots. And sadly I think they will go to Medvedeva and Zagitova. They'll take the spots to see how it goes. And if one of them decides not to, I am pretty sure Samodurova will take the chance as she is still high on the World ranking.

That means, again, a lot of very promising talented girls won't even get a real chance. I'm talking Sinitsyna (training quads and 3A and has amazing SS), Frolova (beat Kostornaia this season, is also upping her game), and others...

 

[starrynight]

I remember commentators stating that axel jumps required a lot of upper body strength to get the body on the rotating axis and to continue rotating on that axis. That might be one reason you see skaters who can do quads but not 3a.

Also, taking off from a forward edge is a completely different ball game from taking off backwards, even if you pre-rotate. Whole different set of muscles allow for those edges to be secure.

This is why I don’t have an issue with the short program not allowing a quad.

I think it’s a good thing the ladies need to work towards getting a triple axel.

 

[Karen-W]

I think the GP will be crucial for the Russian girls to show off what they can do and convince RusFed they are in the running for an Olympic spot.

But unfortunately, there are too many Russian girls, so many great skaters won't even get a GP.

We have Shcherbakova, Trusova, Kostornaia, Tuktamysheva, Valieva, Usacheva, Khromykh. That's seven girls. Only two more can get GP spots. And sadly I think they will go to Medvedeva and Zagitova. They'll take the spots to see how it goes. And if one of them decides not to, I am pretty sure Samodurova will take the chance as she is still high on the World ranking.

That means, again, a lot of very promising talented girls won't even get a real chance. I'm talking Sinitsyna (training quads and 3A and has amazing SS), Frolova (beat Kostornaia this season, is also upping her game), and others...

Where are some of these younger ones who haven't had much of a chance to compete internationally, even on the junior circuit, in the World Standings? Right now, here is what we have:

Shcherbakova 2, Tuktamysheva 3, Trusova 4, Kostornaia 8, Zagitova 9 (she's not coming back folks and the RSF won't waste its precious spots on her), Samodurova 11, Medvedeva 13 - those are the Russians in the top 24.

Konstantinova 29, Valieva 41, Sakhanovich 43, Usacheva 46, Sinitsyna 54, Guliakova 61, Tarakanova 65, Khromykh 67 are the Russian ladies in the top 75.

The RSF is going to have to make some deals if they want to guarantee skaters like Valieva, Usacheva or Khromykh two assignments because the GP assignments don't work the same way as the JGP assignments do. Host feds invite whomever they want rather than feds earning a certain number of assignments based upon the results of Worlds.

 

[Tobbe]

This is why I don’t have an issue with the short program not allowing a quad.

I think it’s a good thing the ladies need to work towards getting a triple axel.

I kind of agree. Although I think it's stupid not to allow quads for Ladies in the short, there is indeed a lot a 3A can do.
Kostornaia proved that last season when she beat her quadster teammates with it. And the 3A is the only reason that Tuktamysheva has managed to stay relevant in Russian ladies skating.

 

[Tobbe]

Where are some of these younger ones who haven't had much of a chance to compete internationally, even on the junior circuit, in the World Standings? Right now, here is what we have:

Shcherbakova 2, Tuktamysheva 3, Trusova 4, Kostornaia 8, Zagitova 9 (she's not coming back folks and the RSF won't waste its precious spots on her), Samodurova 11, Medvedeva 13 - those are the Russians in the top 24.

Konstantinova 29, Valieva 41, Sakhanovich 43, Usacheva 46, Sinitsyna 54, Guliakova 61, Tarakanova 65, Khromykh 67 are the Russian ladies in the top 75.

The RSF is going to have to make some deals if they want to guarantee skaters like Valieva, Usacheva or Khromykh two assignments because the GP assignments don't work the same way as the JGP assignments do. Host feds invite whomever they want rather than feds earning a certain number of assignments based upon the results of Worlds.

But the Worlds standings are flawed, especially this year when there has been no Junior International events whatsoever. So that means that fresh seniors next year (Valieva et al) are ranked way too low. And Samodurova in 11th is hilarious. That's because of her European win in 2019, she has done nothing since then and she is not even top 10 material at RusNats anymore.

I hope the ISU change the rules for GP assignments this year. Basing it off the World standings would be just ridiculous when we've had this non-season plus no Worlds last year.

 

[starrynight]

I think the benefit of a triple axel is the only thing that makes the ladies SP relevant.

It does require some well-roundedness to succeed in that program.

Otherwise it would just be a mini-free skate.

And anyway, a quad lady can outgun any result in the SP with some quads, so why not have the short program require a 3A and strong skating skills? We already have the free skate where the ladies can throw a heap of quads at the wall and see what sticks.

 

[tony]

And anyway, a quad lady can outgun any result in the SP with some quads, so why not have the short program require a 3A and strong skating skills? We already have the free skate where the ladies can throw a heap of quads at the wall and see what sticks.

Throwing a heap of them at the wall isn't exactly how it works. They actually have to be able to do them or they are looking at huge deductions. A << quad in isolation is going to get almost no points as it is. Trusova is way ahead of the game, yes. It gives her a buffer. But she or any other skaters that have worked hard to become technically advanced shouldn't be held back.

It's kind of hilarious to me how most of the world is pissy when Simone Biles has her elements, which again are WAY ahead of everyone else, devalued, but the Russian ladies shouldn't get to even try them. There were only a few men doing quads in the late 90s and early 2000s, and then we had a period of time where almost no men were doing quads because of the risk assessment. Now look, some 10 years later and the majority of the field pulls off at least 4T in their sleep.

If I were at ISU Congress, I would 100% vote to allow quads starting after 2022.

And ETA- the SP has been a mini LP since the beginning of IJS.

 

[rfisher]

Throwing a heap of them at the wall isn't exactly how it works. They actually have to be able to do them or they are looking at huge deductions. A << quad in isolation is going to get almost no points as it is. Trusova is way ahead of the game, yes. It gives her a buffer. But she or any other skaters that have worked hard to become technically advanced shouldn't be held back.

It's kind of hilarious to me how most of the world is pissy when Simone Biles has her elements, which again are WAY ahead of everyone else, devalued, but the Russian ladies shouldn't get to even try them. There were only a few men doing quads in the late 90s and early 2000s, and then we had a period of time where almost no men were doing quads because of the risk assessment. Now look, some 10 years later and the majority of the field pulls off at least 4T in their sleep.

If I were at ISU Congress, I would 100% vote to allow quads starting after 2022.

And ETA- the SP has been a mini LP since the beginning of IJS.

And nobody seems to have any problems whatsoever with Liu having a quad (or she did) or Kihira (and it's clearly still in development).

 

[Karen-W]

But the Worlds standings are flawed, especially this year when there has been no Junior International events whatsoever. So that means that fresh seniors next year (Valieva et al) are ranked way too low. And Samodurova in 11th is hilarious. That's because of her European win in 2019, she has done nothing since then and she is not even top 10 material at RusNats anymore.

I hope the ISU change the rules for GP assignments this year. Basing it off the World standings would be just ridiculous when we've had this non-season plus no Worlds last year.

The thing is, every single country and those fresh seniors are all impacted equally by this non-season. I'm not sure there is anything fair in messing with the rules for the GP assignments.

 

[starrynight]

I don’t know if we can draw direct conclusions for the future of ladies from the men’s field.

An adult man and an adult woman are shaped completely differently and have very different physiology.

Although I am certainly ready to observe how all of this plays out.

But for quads to be the standard across the field in ladies, adults are going to need to be able to do them because almost all countries don’t have a steady supply of new teenage girls.

 

[tony]

I don’t know if we can draw direct conclusions for the future of ladies from the men’s field.

An adult man and an adult woman are shaped completely differently and have very different physiology.

Although I am certainly ready to observe how all of this plays out.

But for quads to be the standard across the field in ladies, adults are going to need to be able to do them because almost all countries don’t have a steady supply of new teenage girls.

Midori Ito and Tonya Harding were more than 10 years ahead of the next ladies to successfully land triple Axels. And we still hardly have any of them doing it with some kind of success. Should Midori have been told she couldn't do it because it wasn't fair to everyone else?

If this was a different country, I'm almost guaranteeing we would never hear these types of supposed logic.

 

[Coco]

Hard to compare skaters reasons for attempting or not attempting jumps during 6.0 vs attempting them under IJS. IJS rewards risk while 6.0 rewarded the avoidance of disruptive mistakes.

 

[Vash01]

Yes, and we mustn't forget Frolova, who beat Kostornaia at RC Final. She will move up to seniors next year.

And Sinitsyna, already senior eligible this year but injured, has poitential as well.

These two are not Eteri skaters though...

The list of Russian ladies wanting to go to Olympics next year will be

Medvedeva (if she can heal herself)
Zagitova (if she still has the motivation)
Shcherbakova
Tuktamysheva
Trusova
Kostornaia
Valieva
Usacheva
Khromykh
Sinitsyna
Frolova

and who knows, if the likes of Tsibinova et al can add a 3A or a quad they might be in the game too.

Will Khromykh be eligible next year? She is just 14, but so is Valieva and she will be eligible.

The Annual Hunger Games in Russian ladies got even tougher.