Was Mark Mitchell robbed?

[Brenda_Bottems]

'Friendship rings'? Wow. Maybe Callahan had a crush on Eldredge .... Interesting take on the lives of the top US men at the time. Wow.

This is patently false,and I strongly suggest you remove this slanderous comment. There was definitively never any homosexual context to the relationship between Mr. Callaghan and Todd—and to suggest otherwise about one of the most successful coaching partnerships in US Figure Skating history is reckless and unwise.

-BB

 

[olympic]

This is patently false,and I strongly suggest you remove this slanderous comment. There was definitively never any homosexual context to the relationship between Mr. Callaghan and Todd—and to suggest otherwise about one of the most successful coaching partnerships in US Figure Skating history is reckless and unwise.

-BB

You sound certain. Were you in the room?

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

You sound certain. Were you in the room?

Call it my woman's intuition.

-BB

 

[VGThuy]

The USFS were sort of stuck with the ladies selection by 2018. Wagner didn’t have the best season coming into Nationals and her last Worlds placement had her behind Karen Chen by some way. Like others said, Tennell had the highest SB. Sure the ladies didn’t place so hot but Tennell did her job in the team event missing a higher placement in the SP by 0.01 and Mirai overperformed in the LP and rocked it. It probably would have been better to put Wagner in instead of Chen but I thought Karen Chen deserved the nod and the tech panel tried real hard to put Wagner on the team. In hindsight, it might have been better for Chen to miss the team because boy did she get grief from Wagner fans and then the whole boot scenario just made things worse. And then even now her placement is used to prop Wagner up but to that I say...I also don’t think Wagner would have done much better. Like she would have placed what? 8th instead? Wagner won her Worlds silver with two UR calls, something she couldn’t afford with the improved ladies field in 2018. She couldn’t get away with that at 2017 Worlds as we saw.

 

[Marco]

1992 Nationals -

Paul: spiral into 3flip, 3axel step out, 3lutz shaky, flying sit (4), 3sal, big combo spin, 3axel step out into 2toe, flying camel (2), 3lutz turn 2toe, 3toe, 2axel, scratch. No clean 3axels and no loop at all, no clean combinations, but all 7 attempted triples rotated; program has its moments but overall a little empty - 5.6/5.8

Chris: 3lutz, 2axel, 3flip3toe, SE into flying camel (3), 3loop, combo spin, ina 3toe, 3sal, 2axel, 3flip2toe, deathdrop (2), arabian change to scratch. Nothing harder than the 3lutz but everything perfect. 5.8/5.9

Mark: 3axel, 3flip3toe stumble, flying sit (4), 3lutz, toe arabian combo spin, 3loop, change camel (2/3), 3sal, flying camel (5), 3toe, 2axel, scratch. No clean combination and only repeated the 3toe, but more content in his choreography and delivered very well. 5.7/5.9

Scott: 3loop, 2lutz2toe, flying camel (3), 3flip stumble, flying sit (3), 3axel, combo spin, 3lutz, 2sal, change camel, 3toe big stumble, 2axel, deathdrop back sit to scratch. 5.4/5.6

Leaving out whether Todd should be sent, I feel Mark deserved to place 2nd ahead of Paul at these Nationals. He landed more clean triples (one of each) and attempted a 3/3, and had a more complex program which he delivered well. Paul's program was emptier in comparison.

Comparing 91 vs 92, if Mark had beaten Todd out for 3rd and went to Munich a year before, perhaps the judges / committee would be more open to accepting Mark in 1992 vs Paul. In 1992, Mark had yet to go to Worlds and that probably got factored into the judging against Paul and the final decision against Todd.

 

[Marco]

I find YouTube comments quite informative at times.

"As a former judge I can tell you three things judges didnt like about him - telegraphing his jumps, lack of height on them, and his complaining"

Judges certainly didn't care about those things for Paul. Even Todd was an avid telegrapher but his jumps did have height.

I know about BOW and his 'girlfriend' but either way I don't feel they should affect how events should be judged. Judge what happens on the ice. The committee can skip him in the nominations if they feel his BOW was insufficient or if his image was not what USFS had in mind - but then they would have to actually explain them. I suppose that's why they engineered the marks instead (IMO).

 

[bardtoob]

Bowman, being from Van Nuys (the gay porn capital of the world), allegedly knew his way around a photo shoot or two.

I hope you are satisfied with yourself for how scummy you can be towards a tortured soul that tragically died. From 1947 to 1992 Van Nuys had a General Motors Assembly factory, and you could have just as well claimed he secretly built Impalas to fund his skating and addiction rather than say he got money the way you said I hope his 20-something year old daughter does not Google search him looking for something to be proud of only to find an invented claim he did this because he happened to live in Van Nuys.

The fact of the matter is that:

Christopher appeared in over 500 television commercials and television shows including Little House on the Prairie (1974) & Archie Bunker's Place (1979), alongside legends Michael Landon, Melissa Gilbert and Carol O'Connor (I).

Christopher eventually branched into Feature Films as an Actor and Stuntman through Stunts Unlimited. He's been seen in various films including Casey's Shadow (1978) with Walter Matthau, the Troma cult classic Surf Nazis Must Die (1987), License to Drive (1988) with Corey Haim and Joel Schumacher's epic film The Lost Boys (1987).

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0101303/bio

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

It's crazy to think that Team USA was in a position where Christopher, Todd, Mark and Paul were Olympic podium candidates. Most countries would dream of having that kind of depth.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Todd's free program in 1992 was pretty ordinary. I would have kept Les Miserables from the previous season.

 

[Marco]

Todd's free program in 1992 was pretty ordinary. I would have kept Les Miserables from the previous season.

How bad was his 92 program?! He didn't skate it at Nationals.

 

[Plusdinfo]

Judges certainly didn't care about those things for Paul. Even Todd was an avid telegrapher but his jumps did have height.

I know about BOW and his 'girlfriend' but either way I don't feel they should affect how events should be judged. Judge what happens on the ice. The committee can skip him in the nominations if they feel his BOW was insufficient or if his image was not what USFS had in mind - but then they would have to actually explain them. I suppose that's why they engineered the marks instead (IMO).

I certainly didn't write that I agreed with all the YouTube comments I shared or found them "valid", I just put them into this thread to add in some perspectives.

 

[Coco]

Prior to IJS, I suspect that judges were ALWAYS taking BOW into account, not to mention marketing, future potential, past mistakes, etc.

 

[VGThuy]

I agree with Marco that the judges shouldn’t engineer marks at Nationals just to have non-controversial team selections. With more emphasis on BOW and with precedent with Miner, let’s hope Olympic-year Nationals have results that reflect what happened at the competition. I think for the most part they do, some times glaring exceptions to the rule pop up.

 

[Simone411]

You sound certain. Were you in the room?

Well, are you certain? Were you in the same room? All I know is this. Todd's been married twice. His first wife loved everything pink like the color of Pepto Bismol -- “Nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea”. Needless to say, that marriage didn't last very long.

Todd is now married to Sabrina and they have two wonderful children. Sabrina is also a friend of mine on FB. She requested my friendship not long after she and Todd were married. I'm so glad that Todd has such a wonderful wife and two children. It's so good to see them both happy, and they deserve it.

 

[olympic]

Well, are you certain? Were you in the same room? All I know is this. Todd's been married twice. His first wife loved everything pink like the color of Pepto Bismol -- “Nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea”. Needless to say, that marriage didn't last very long.

Todd is now married to Sabrina and they have two wonderful children. Sabrina is also a friend of mine on FB. She requested my friendship not long after she and Todd were married. I'm so glad that Todd has such a wonderful wife and two children. It's so good to see them both happy, and they deserve it.

What? I am not certain of anything. Never said I was. Good ole BB took a shot and I fired back. I could care less what Todd Eldredge does with his life

 

[Wyliefan]

No need to feed the trolls, y'all.

 

[bardtoob]

There was definitively never any homosexual context to the relationship between Mr. Callaghan and Todd—and to suggest otherwise about one of the most successful coaching partnerships in US Figure Skating history is reckless and unwise.

-BB

You sound certain. Were you in the room?

Call it my woman's intuition.

-BB

@olympic

https://youtu.be/VOouzESbl5c?t=205

 

[VGThuy]

Let's say Mark placed second to Wylie's third at these Nationals. Would they leave Wylie out for Eldridge or would we have the same scenario with Mark losing out? If we're going with BOW, then it's a shakier argument to take out Mitchell in favor of Wylie given their competitive history. I guess the USFS just knew if Wylie hit he would be medal material.

 

[Plusdinfo]

I rewatched some of the 1992 Nationals LPs over the weekend and I saw something on ABC-TV about the selection process. I believe it broke down things into percentages and said that 1992 Nationals results had a value of 75% in terms of the decisions to be made. In reality, though, while growing up with U.S. television, I always got the impression (if I was not outright told; can't remember) that nationals were the place to decide team selections. Yes, there was the whole issue of not officially stating that, but in essence, that's what took place.

 

[her grace]

Prior to IJS, I suspect that judges were ALWAYS taking BOW into account, not to mention marketing, future potential, past mistakes, etc.

Agreed. It used to drive me crazy when the 6.0 judges were obviously looking beyond the skates they saw to select their marks. IJS, while it can be manipulated, is a huge improvement over 6.0.

I like that Miner can get the silver medal he earned on that day instead of being artificially held down because they don't want him on the team.

 

[Erin]

I wouldn't say that the outfit didn't match the music, but I noticed on rewatching that Mark's pants looked too baggy and it made him look sloppy to me. I think with better fitting pants his lines would have shown more.

I think you are right - he has much better fitting pants in 1993 and it really does leave a much better impression. Although I also think that Don Quixote program was an improvement over On the Waterfront.

Speaking of 1993, I think Mark kind of got a gift in the long program. There is a good argument to put both Chack and Galindo ahead of him in the free, although that would not have impacted the final standings.

 

[Vagabond]

Speaking of 1993, I think Mark kind of got a gift in the long program. There is a good argument to put both Chack and Galindo ahead of him in the free, although that would not have impacted the final standings.

I dare you to post a video of Michael Chack's 1993 U.S. Nationals Free Skate to prove your point!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I dare you to post a video of Michael Chack's 1993 U.S. Nationals Free Skate to prove your point!

While 'chacked' became a term applied to a skater's performance being cut from a telecast, after Michael's medal winning bronze in Phoenix wasn't shown, I believe Ledin Video footage (who officially recorded the event for purchase) exists of Michael's skate.

 

[Aerobicidal]

Some of my colleagues recommended that I write a letter about how by altering, rewriting, or ignoring past events to make them consistent with his current reality, Mark has lost whatever dignity he once had. This is that letter. For the sake of review, Mark warrants that big emotions come from big words. He goes on to claim that ghastly, flippant bohemians and the worst types of skivers I’ve ever seen should rule this country. The correct response to both of those nitpicky beliefs is the assertion that Mark justifies his delirious treatises with fallacious logical arguments based on argumentum ad baculum. In case you’re unfamiliar with the term, it means that if we don’t accept Mark ’s claim that violence and prejudice are funny then he will incite pogroms, purges, and other mayhem. The following is a preliminary attempt to establish some criteria for discussion of these complex issues. To begin with, it is not news that Mark would like to see all of our individual liberties digest in the bowels of an all-powerful State. What speaks volumes, though, is that this is what his fellow travelers try to prevent us from hearing about on radio and television or reading about in popular magazines and large-circulation papers. I can reword my point as follows: I respect open discourse and robust debate and maintain that society should remain open to a broad range of ideas and opinions as a way to create the best conditions for discovering the truth. That said, I do aver that I think I know why so many irascible fence-sitters instigate acrimony and discord. It’s because Mark has whipped them into a blind frenzy by telling them that the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth are three different things. Unfortunately for Mark , the ground truth is that it is not uncommon for him to victimize the innocent, penalize the victim for making any effort to defend himself, and then paint the whole cynical affair as some great benefit to humanity.

I hardly need to tell you that you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to detect the subtext of this letter. But just in case it’s too subliminal for some, let me thrust it into your face right here: Mark never tires of telling us that one hallmark of an advanced culture is the rejection of rationalism. That’s why I feel obligated to respond by reminding everyone that Mark claims to have donated a lot of money to charity over the past few years. I suspect that the nullibicity of those donations would become apparent if one were to audit Mark ’s books—unless, of course, charity includes Mark -run organizations that crush any semblance of opposition to Mark ’s ophidian surmises. In that case, I’d say that that’s just one side of the coin. The other side is that by indiscriminately assigning value to practically everything, Mark has made experience all-important. His experiences, however, are detached from any consideration of what is good or true, which means that they will almost certainly conduct business in an inficete, shiftless way within a short period of time.

For future reference, Mark wants to create division in the name of diversity. Alas, that’s a mere ripple on the jaundiced ocean of presenteeism in which Mark will drown any attempt to restore our righteous rage and singular purpose to prevail over his truculent, unpleasant claque. I hope and pray for success in that endeavor. Without decisive action, though, hope and prayer will not deliver us. We must therefore build a working consensus to tackle big problems. Failure to do so represents an abandonment of principle. It indicates complicity with Mark ’s rotten tactics. And although it may seem scary to carry out such a task, someone has to be willing to lead Mark out of a dream world and back to hard reality. Even if it’s not polite to do so. Even if it hurts a lot of people’s feelings. Even if everyone else is pretending that Mark ’s overweening schemes will make you rich beyond your wildest dreams. And that’s what writing this sort of letter is all about. It’s a way to overcome the obstacles that people like Mr. Mark Mitchell establish.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

@olympic

https://youtu.be/VOouzESbl5c?t=205

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

I like that Miner can get the silver medal he earned on that day instead of being artificially held down because they don't want him on the team.

It is abominable for the USFSA to award the silver medal at the National Championships to Mr. Miner,but then twelve hours later cruelly deny his earned Olympic Games berth. Particularly seeing as he is such an upstanding,hard-working, all-American young man.

I most assuredly do not like that.

-BB

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

let me thrust it into your face right here

This is vulgar and reads vaguely homosexual coming from anyone other than Todd Eldredge.

-BB

 

[Aerobicidal]

This is vulgar and reads vaguely homosexual coming from anyone other than Todd Eldredge.

-BB

The Bottems doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[Vagabond]

Those who might be a bit by the last few posts can find an explanation here.

 

[mjb52]

Am I awake?