Alexei Yagudin wishes death on Adam Rippon for donating to a Black trans charity

[misskarne]

I must defend him. In that time the n**** word was accepted and used in my country, too instead of the "afro-americans" therm. We didn't undertsand that is humiliating them. We just used and didn't think any bad on them. It took us time to learn. We have already learned! ( But even that word is used today by most of old people ) I apologise the afro-americans.

I have no doubt that the very first time he dropped that word among American skaters they told him straight away it was unacceptable.

And I have severe doubts that all of Russia was that ignorant about the connotations of a world well-known as a racial slur for over a century. Especially in the 90s after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

 

[Vagabond]

I have to wonder how Yagudin even picked up that word in the first place. It isn't one that most Americans (or English speakers) would ever use.

 

[starrynight]

I have to wonder how Yagudin even picked up that word in the first place. It isn't one that most Americans (or English speakers) would ever use.

American music.

 

[Rina RUS]

the idea that someone should modify the language they use depending on the gender of the person you speak to is frankly very sexist

Sorry, I think it is obvious anyway that a man (biologically) is able to attack a woman sexually indeed. For Russian culture this difference matters.
In Russia a girl/woman isn't supposed to use the words like "f***" in her speech at all, if she wants to be treated like a lady/like a girl from a good family. Maybe this unwritten rule also exists because in some cases a girl can be attacked physically for talking like this.
That is why it is not good for a man to attack a woman with these words. Often men are asked not to use these words at all, when women or children can hear them. So it almost means nobody is supposed to use these words in Russia "in polite company".

In skating men compete against men, because of the biological difference between men and women. It seems nobody says that this rule is "very sexist".

 

[Erin]

I have to wonder how Yagudin even picked up that word in the first place. It isn't one that most Americans (or English speakers) would ever use.

Judging by the reports coming out from NCAA gymnasts who experienced racism, the use of that word is depressingly common. I lost track of how many of them said their teammates threw it around casually.

 

[lala]

Sorry, I think it is obvious anyway that a man (biologically) is able to attack a woman sexually indeed. For Russian culture this difference matters.
In Russia a girl/woman isn't supposed to use the words like "f***" in her speech at all, if she wants to be treated like a lady/like a girl from a good family. Maybe this unwritten rule also exists because in some cases a girl can be attacked physically for talking like this.
That is why it is not good for a man to attack a woman with these words. Often men are asked not to use these words at all, when women or children can hear them. So it almost means nobody is supposed to use these words in Russia "in polite company".

I believe this is not only in Russia.

 

[Rina RUS]

I believe this is not only in Russia.

I just mean that a man attacking a woman with words like "f**" can look like a person who attacks with weapon somebody who has no weapon.

I don't mean that it is so only for Russians, but as far as I know for Russians such words are stronger (ruder) than for people from some other countries. I know a girl from another country who had to learn not to use such words talking Russian.

 

[Vagabond]

I don't mean that it is so only for Russians, but as far as I know for Russians such words are stronger (ruder) than for people from some other countries.

Rude words seem ruder in one's mother tongue.

 

[Rina RUS]

Rude words seem ruder in one's mother tongue.

Yes, I know.
Yet I also know a girl who says that in her country women use such words more easily, but in Russia her Russian friends taught her not to do it. Not because she is a foreigner, but because all the girls are taught not to do it.

 

[Vagabond]

Yes, I know.
Yet I also know a girl who says that in her country women use such words more easily, but in Russia her Russian friends taught her not to do it. Not because she is a foreigner, but because all the girls are taught not to do it.

She says that in her country use such words more easily, but she's speaking from her own experience.

I live in the United States, and I can assure you that here, for example, you will find women who would tell you that all girls here are taught not to use such words, and other women who use such words all the time.

 

[Coco]

@Tinami Amori I think you are misreading Adam's comments on JK Rowling. He said: " f**k JK Rowling’s backward a$$ opinion and her busted f***ng tweets."

The presence of the " 's " after her last name shows that he's talking about her opinion and tweets and not about her.

 

[Rina RUS]

you will find women who would tell you that all girls here are taught not to use such words...

girls from "good" families

(I just tried to explain why a man can be expected to modify the language he uses depending on the gender of the person he speaks to)

 

[allezfred]

Sorry, I think it is obvious anyway that a man (biologically) is able to attack a woman sexually indeed. For Russian culture this difference matters.
In Russia a girl/woman isn't supposed to use the words like "f***" in her speech at all, if she wants to be treated like a lady/like a girl from a good family. Maybe this unwritten rule also exists because in some cases a girl can be attacked physically for talking like this.
That is why it is not good for a man to attack a woman with these words. Often men are asked not to use these words at all, when women or children can hear them. So it almost means nobody is supposed to use these words in Russia "in polite company".

In skating men compete against men, because of the biological difference between men and women. It seems nobody says that this rule is "very sexist".

So many f*cked up attitudes here I do not know where to start. Good grief!

I know you think Yagudin’s bumbarash or whatever shits chocolates and roses, but he wished death on another human being! The correct response to that is “That’s a dreadful thing to say”, not “Mommy, mommy he said a rude word about that woman.”

 

[antmanb]

Its also a total red herring what someone in Russia would or wouldn't say since we're talking about an American man commenting on the opinions of a British woman, on an American social media platform.

Anyone can invoke any etiquette they like to say that swearing is wrong or justified. I'm not offended by swearing and I applaud Adam for his response to both JK Rowling's hideous opinions and Yagudin's deplorable reaction.

 

[tony]

So the Russians trying to equate this whole saying of f*** to being equally wrong and/or deflect from Yagudin- you’re saying that as recently as 20 years ago most Russians didn’t understand that another word, infinitely more offensive universally, was as severe as it was, but f*** is a word that should never be said?

Okay.

 

[VGThuy]

We all know the whole profanity issue is just a deflection tactic to try to equate the wrongdoing from others with the actions of Adam, who did nothing wrong, to make it seem like he was comparatively at-fault for the words Yagudin used. I say "f*ck" that crap. Some of the smartest and productive people of all sexes I know can't help but use profane language from time-to-time. It gets straight to the point, people know exactly what you're saying, and it also means you're rightfully angry because you are AWARE of the gravity of what's going on. Also, the whole notion of "good girls" or "girls" can't say or do this or be spoken to in such a way..."f*ck" that sexism.

And honestly, as evidenced by what we've read by some posters and by Yags himself, some times things said WITHOUT profanity is MUCH worse than things people say with it.

To those trying to appoint some fault onto Adam to deflect...Nice try, though.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Did the title of my thread get changed?

Im totally cool with it, Im just trying to determine if I drank wayy too much yesterday (and its entirely feasible).

Im also glad the "lifestyle" or "alternative lifestyle" phrase is being brought up.

When I was 18 I looked to the newspaper (those were the times) to meet someone... and back then for me to find a man it was found under "alternative lifestyles"

It was embarrassing.... Why is it an "alternative lifestyle" for me to date "Joe" and not so for my sister to date "Joe?"

It was presented that I was lesser than heteros.

It was Never a lifestyle. Just a life.

 

[allezfred]

Did the title of my thread get changed?

It did.

 

[kwanatic]

I understand gender identity has become rather complicated over the past few years. It used to be you're male or female, but today we realize there's actually a spectrum that can include one or both or neither. For a person who identifies as simply one thing (female), it's a lot to digest or understand.

However, I am of the "live and let live" school of people. Do what makes you happy, what makes you feel whole, what is true to you. As I'm not you, I have no right or interest in questioning what you do with your life because ultimately, it has no effect on my life. I accept you for who you are. Period. I never understand why people get so upset at the way other people live their lives---it's their life. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

I'm a major Harry Potter fanatic so I'm a bit disappointed by JK Rowling's statements. However, I don't think she's evil or a bad person. I just think she's a bit misinformed and would do well to learn more about the trans community. I read her follow up statement regarding her tweets and I get where she's coming from; but I think there was a better way to get her point across without sounding insensitive or dismissive.

As for Yagudin...I don't think you can excuse his comments as misinformed or uneducated. That was just hateful. He's made very hateful statements about other skaters in the past as well so I'm not much inclined to chock this up to "he just needs to learn more." It's more like "he just needs to shut the hell up."

Adam handled the whole thing beautifully. His response was perfect. Yagudin should be ashamed...

 

[Aerobicidal]

I understand gender identity has become rather complicated over the past few years. It used to be you're male or female, but today we realize there's actually a spectrum that can include one or both or neither.

No, it didn't used to be you're male or female.

Intersex people did not just start existing this year. Indigenous cultures frequently include more than two genders. And there are countless other examples of people who tried to live outside the male/female dichotomy but were usually denied the ability to do so freely.

I've been horrified by the transphobia on FSU over the recent months, but it's not all that much better to celebrate suddenly accepting something that should have been known and celebrated and accepted decades if not centuries ago.

No apologies for J.K. Rowling.

No qualms about Adam Rippon's language.

I already didn't give a shit about Yagudin.

 

[Rina RUS]

he wished death on another human being! The correct response to that is “That’s a dreadful thing to say”

I absolutely agree that wishing death is unallowable. I did say this in the thread where this case had been discussed before the separate thread was opened.

And wishing death is not just about etiquette, of course.

 

[briancoogaert]

This is disgusting...

 

[Spiralgraph]

Appalling and disgusting. Yagudin's true colors are nauseating. I still don't know exactly what Rowling wrote but from the references here I'm disgusted again. I don't swear much but I have no problem with Rippon's wordage. Good for Adam to make another donation, he expressed himself well just by doing that.

 

[kwanatic]

No, it didn't used to be you're male or female.

In traditional western society that's what we're taught. You are either a boy or a girl, male or female. Blue or pink, a doll or a truck. That is what I was presented with when I was growing up. There were no alternative options...that's not to say they didn't exist...they just were not given as an option. Nowadays some parents are a bit more open minded and are allowing their kids to develop their own identities by presenting them with options rather than pushing the identity of "boy" or "girl" at the beginning.

Intersex people did not just start existing this year

....I've been horrified by the transphobia on FSU over the recent months, but it's not all that much better to celebrate suddenly accepting something that should have been known and celebrated and accepted decades if not centuries ago.

People exist in different spheres. Someone's experience as part of a particular community comes with knowledge that is often exclusive or inherent to that community as it affects them personally. For someone who is not part of that community, it's unfair to expect them to just know something everyone in that community already knows.

I'm in my 30s and not part of the LGBT community. I knew about male, female, trans, straight, gay and bi-sexual. Queer is something I just learned about a few years ago when the Q was added; I'm still trying to learn what non-binary, cisgender, gender fluid, etc. are. But I'm open to learning because I want to understand.

It's like what's going on in America right now. As a black person, I've known about systemic racism my entire life because I am part of that community. However, there are a lot of non-black people who are learning about it for the first time. Like you said, I want to say everyone should have known about it because it's been going on for centuries in this country, but I understand how someone who is not a part of the black community may not know because they don't see the world from my perspective. But people are waking up to it and educating themselves about it and, hopefully, change will come from it. I hope the same thing will happen for the LGBTQ+ community.

I say all of that to say sometimes ignorance isn't malicious--it's just ignorance: a lack of knowledge or information. When you have knowledge that others don't, sometimes you should try to educate them and open their minds rather than hold what they don't know against them. However, "stupidity is the deliberate cultivation of ignorance." Not everyone is receptive to knowledge; a lot of people like being ignorant and when that's the case, there isn't much you can do.

 

[MacMadame]

girls from "good" families

(I just tried to explain why a man can be expected to modify the language he uses depending on the gender of the person he speaks to)

You do realize your entire explanation was extremely sexist, right?

For one thing, if I say f*ck that doesn't mean I'm not a nice person and that (a) men are going to try to beat me up and (b) if they do it's my own fault for saying f*ck. Men who beat people up because they don't like what they say or do are the problem, not the f word.

I say all of that to say sometimes ignorance isn't malicious--it's just ignorance: a lack of knowledge or information.

While that is true, JK Rowling's ignorance is deliberate. She has been saying these things for a while and has resisted all efforts at educating her about the issue, just doubling down on it. Therefore, at this point, I'd say her ignorance is malicious.

 

[Rina RUS]

So the Russians trying to equate this whole saying of f*** to being equally wrong and/or deflect from Yagudin- you’re saying that as recently as 20 years ago most Russians didn’t understand that another word, infinitely more offensive universally, was as severe as it was, but f*** is a word that should never be said?

"Rippon's wordage" is not important for me. I just tried to show why a person can think about sexes in such a case. It doesn't even mean that this person is right, it only means that a man's body does differ from woman's body biologically.

Tinami doesn't like Yagudin. I think she doesn't mean to excuse him. She just likes to be a judge. As for Yagudin and Rippon, I see she doesn't say their posts are "equally wrong".

Lala doesn't like Yagudin too. And Lala is not Russian. I think she said that in that old case Yagudin could say wrong words accidentally - just because she wants to be fair - but I'm sure she doesn't mean to excuse him in this new case.

 

[tony]

Tinami doesn't like Yagudin. I think she doesn't mean to excuse him. She just likes to be a judge. As for Yagudin and Rippon, I see she doesn't say their posts are "equally wrong".

Lala doesn't like Yagudin too. And Lala is not Russian. I think she said that in that old case Yagudin could say wrong words accidentally - just because she wants to be fair - but I'm sure she doesn't mean to excuse him in this new case.

Rina, I'm not calling you out specifically. However, to the first part that I've quoted from you:

Rowling - 1X wrong. She did not need to comment, it's not her business, nobody is telling her to be trans-anything....
Rippon - 2X wrong. He uses profanities and F-words on people he does not agree with.
Yagudin - 3X wrong. For using in a disagreement a wish to "croak" against a person and calling LGBTQ "nature's error".

Rippon is double the amount wrong of Rowling according to Tinami. As I addressed in my first post to her, she's saying that using profanities is the end of the world and something serious. My huge issue with Tinami's wording is that even thought she's hellbent on hating Yagudin and everyone else who isn't non-stop Russia only!, she calls Yagudin's spiff with Rippon a 'disagreement'. Delusional. If someone was going to tell me to die over how I spent my money, especially when it was towards a cause to help people, I would've told him to do much more than shove something up his entire ass. For starters, I'd be all over pulling the receipts of his previous sexual behavior. It's coming.

 

[Rina RUS]

However, to the first part that I've quoted from you

Not "from me". From Tinami's post.
I think her words "on people he does not agree with" are about Rowling. Not about Yagudin, not about excusing him. Maybe it is not much better for you, but I just think that a scaring crowd of "Russians" talking about "equally wrong" things doesn't exist in this thread yet.

 

[once_upon]

I don’t know why anyone would wish death anyone just because they disagree with someone’s lifestyle...

You realize it's not a lifestyle? If not, take time to learn about LGBTQ people.

 

[just tuned in]

I read Rowling's article and my main take-away is that she is afraid that a straight man pretending to be trans woman will come into a public restroom and rape her.