Love, Balls and Courting: Tennis V

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vanillashake

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270
chantilly said:
My issue with Nadal and the slam record is how many of his wins are the French, which is known to be a slower game.

He’s won more the half his slams in the French. And Federer has won more hard and grass courts then him so far.

That counts for more if a player can vary their surface success.

JMO
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There are two ways to look at it. I see your vantage point. Another is that Nadal on clay is WAY better than any player in the history of sport on any surface ever. In other words Nadal on clay is way superior to Federer on grass, Borg on clay, Borg on grass, Djokovic on hard courts, Sampras on grass. And Nadal on his weakest of the 3 major surfaces (whether you consider that hard courts or grass) is also superior to either Federer or Nadal on their weakest, or for a real laugher Sampras on his (Sampras on clay, lol). To be so far superior and more dominant on a surface than anyone else in history on a surface like Nadal is on clay, and still be a great multi slam winner on all other surfaces is pretty great.

I also prefer a more balanced record of slam wins. Still the record is the record. And it would be nowhere near as bad as the Court situation where she continues to hold the slam record despite half of her slams coming at the then illegitimate Australian Open which was played only by Australian players mostly and on average had about 3 of the top 20 in the 60s and 70s. Now that is a giant asterisk. Despite that she still is the official holder of the slam record until Serena gets that 24th.
 
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nylynnr

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Strange. I didn't think the men's final was all that high in quality, point for point, especially the first set. Nadal's serve was just terrible. Neither man played near his best, except maybe in patches of the fourth and fifth set. It was certainly exciting to watch, though.
 
Rob

Rob

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vanillashake said:
There are two ways to look at it. I see your vantage point. Another is that Nadal on clay is WAY better than any player in the history of sport on any surface ever. In other words Nadal on clay is way superior to Federer on grass, Borg on clay, Borg on grass, Djokovic on hard courts, Sampras on grass. And Nadal on his weakest of the 3 major surfaces (whether you consider that hard courts or grass) is also superior to either Federer or Nadal on their weakest, or for a real laugher Sampras on his (Sampras on clay, lol). To be so far superior and more dominant on a surface than anyone else in history on a surface like Nadal is on clay, and still be a great multi slam winner on all other surfaces is pretty great.
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That is an interesting way to look at it - Federer and Djokovic have the career grand slam because they each won the French in a year that Nadal was not in great form; beaten by someone other than Federer or Djokovic in 2009 and withdrawn in 2016 for a wrist injury. Whereas Nadal has beaten Federer to win slams on grass and hardcourt and he has beaten Djokovic to win slams on hardcourt. We will still see Federer and Djokovic as more well rounded because of two surfaces to one surface, but Nadal probably has had to stretch himself the most.
 
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nylynnr

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IMO you have to factor in that Rafa has never won the ATP year-end title. His year always drizzles off after the Open. He's my personal favorite but, in my heart, I acknowledge Federer as the current GOAT.
 
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vanillashake

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270
nylynnr said:
IMO you have to factor in that Rafa has never won the ATP year-end title. His year always drizzles off after the Open. He's my personal favorite but, in my heart, I acknowledge Federer as the current GOAT.
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I think the mass public it will always be the slam record holder though. Whichever of Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic (dont' forget there is still a good shot it could wind up being Djokovic) ends up with the most slams will be the general consensus public GOAT, rightly or wrongly. The focus these days are all about slam wins. If any of them end up tied in most slams then let the fireworks begin.

In all honesty Gonzales and Laver and probably better than all 3. They were #1 for 7 or 8 years each which is more than any of those, and focus wasn't on slams then. However recency bias has made them all but forgotten to anyone but tennis diehards. Sampras who is a legend of course, but whose record is nowhere near Laver's, Gonzales's, or even Rosewall's is even talked about more than those guys these days.
 
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missing

missing

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Another thing to throw into the conversation is Nadal is the only one of the three to win Olympic Gold in singles. He also has won Olympic gold in doubles, something Federer has done as well.

I love Nadal so I'm biased in his favor. I do think if he manages to win another Australian, he'll have to be regarded at least temporarily as Number 1 of the three, all extraordinary champions, because he'd be the only one of the three to win 2 of each major.

I really think each of the three has gotten better because of the presence of the other two. Each one is truly astonishing.
 
caseyedwards

caseyedwards

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Rob said:
That is an interesting way to look at it - Federer and Djokovic have the career grand slam because they each won the French in a year that Nadal was not in great form; beaten by someone other than Federer or Djokovic in 2009 and withdrawn in 2016 for a wrist injury. Whereas Nadal has beaten Federer to win slams on grass and hardcourt and he has beaten Djokovic to win slams on hardcourt. We will still see Federer and Djokovic as more well rounded because of two surfaces to one surface, but Nadal probably has had to stretch himself the most.
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But at least unlike Federer Djokovic has beaten Nadal at French Open! But then he lost to Wawrinka! Ugh! Djokovic had to get through Murray first. That match was 2 days? 3? Ridiculous
 
mollymgr

mollymgr

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I like all of them.:D Federer, Nadal, Djokovic. All of them bring their own unique style and they are all so much fun to watch. To win 19 slams is no silly feat. To win even one, is a lifelong dream come true for many. Most people don't ever get to go past a few rounds in their whole career. Not everyone can be good at all surfaces.
To add to it, it is so much pressure at a Grand Slam event. It is just amazing to see someone win a point when there is no hope left and turn it around. I think that's what separates the multi grand slam winners from the rest. They are so strong mentally compared to the rest of the field.
Medvedev had a good run leading up to the US Open. I think he has great potential for the future and he is only 23.
 
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vanillashake

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caseyedwards said:
But at least unlike Federer Djokovic has beaten Nadal at French Open! But then he lost to Wawrinka! Ugh! Djokovic had to get through Murray first. That match was 2 days? 3? Ridiculous
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With all due respect beating 2015 Nadal is no biggie. Wawrinka and Murray would have also beaten him at that French Open btw I am pretty sure, and maybe some others.

If peak Federer (2004-2010) ever got to play 2015 Nadal at RG he would have won for certain too. I guess a win is a win so it still an edge for Djokovic on Federer but not much.
 
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nylynnr

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Whether a match is 2 or 3 days, whether Nadal was suffering mental anguish due to his parents' divorce, whether Federer had mono, whether Djokovic ate gluten .... none of it matters. All that counts is what's in the "W" column.
 
caseyedwards

caseyedwards

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vanillashake said:
With all due respect beating 2015 Nadal is no biggie. Wawrinka and Murray would have also beaten him at that French Open btw I am pretty sure, and maybe some others.

If peak Federer (2004-2010) ever got to play 2015 Nadal at RG he would have won for certain too. I guess a win is a win so it still an edge for Djokovic on Federer but not much.
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When Djokovic was Poor in 2017 beating him was still seen as a big deal! Even if it’s injury that caused the losses. It wasn’t like a joke! “Player Beats Djokovic In shocker!” And this happened so much by the tenth 10 was it really still “player beats Djokovic in shocker!” It was just about the name and fame and expectations
nylynnr said:
Whether a match is 2 or 3 days, whether Nadal was suffering mental anguish due to his parents' divorce, whether Federer had mono, whether Djokovic ate gluten .... none of it matters. All that counts is what's in the "W" column.
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Ultimately yes
 
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liv

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Nice to seee Kim on the come back trail. Why not? if she loves it? I think the continued success of older players has probably helped motivate her a little bit too. And, well, if Serena is still trying at 38 with one baby, why can't she, with 3? I would not be surprised if she does well....
 
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chantilly

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Wow did not expect this!
I’m excited. Clijsters is a great player and from what I’ve heard is a wonderful human.
 
ЭPiKUilyam

ЭPiKUilyam

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Well, the Australian Open starts next week, and the qualies are this week and there have been serious complaints from the players about the air quality already. This might be an *asterisk Slam in the books, because the main names/stars will be indoors throughout and won't feel the effects. There are reports that there will be rain and thunderstroms next week which should help, but this is a mess. The AO is the only Slam I haven't been to, and it's on my "List". Glad I didn't make plans this year. I feel badly for those who did shell out big money to attend, they will have to deal with the air quality also. Very sad.
 
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liv

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Osaka lost . Too bad. She is great when on, but had so many mistakes... since the split with sasha she isnt the same... but, coco is a good young player without attitude, so far... and serena lost. I had a feeling she'd lose, she had that look on her face today, so I wasnt surprised. I like that we have some different faces to look forward to here...
 
Fiero425

Fiero425

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ErikWilliam said:
Wouldn’t it be something if Coco wins the title? I like her game and attitude.
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Oh well, Coco's dream run ended in the 4th Rd. vs Kenin in 3 sets! She's a true phenom and I hope they don't overplay her! Only time will tell if she holds up! Anyone watch Federer against Fuscovics? I stayed up until 5 AM thinking his match w/b anything but a cakewalk after his marathon effort vs Millman 2 days ago! I was right; he started out a lit'l slow allowing Fucsovics to "break his ankles" on several occasions ripping shots behind him! Fed was lucky the kid "went away" w/ the pressure of it all to back up that 1st set! It's just starting again! I need to go watch it; just the 1st set which was hilarious to see the old man struggling! :rolleyes:
 
Fiero425

Fiero425

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muffinplus said:
Kim is back! She has still got it. Needs more match play and fitness, but her tennis talent is still there
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I guess she thinks "if Serena can do it, I can do it!" These people really need to get a life and stop taking up spots in draws for "up and coming" stars! It just isn't enough they have fame, money, and in the HOF, players like Kim think they can compete even as they're bones creak! :duh:
 
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muffinplus

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Fiero425 said:
I guess she thinks "if Serena can do it, I can do it!" These people really need to get a life and stop taking up spots in draws for "up and coming" stars! It just isn't enough they have fame, money, and in the HOF, players like Kim think they can compete even as they're bones creak! :duh:
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She isn't taking up anyone's spot... and why should she stop if she enjoys it... I'm sure plenty of people are happy to see her back, she has always had amazing talent and can teach the new generation a thing or two.
 
ЭPiKUilyam

ЭPiKUilyam

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Lorac said:
The French Open has been moved to September - though it is slated to start a week after the US Open finishes so the US Open is now considering it's options:

And Wimbledon is still waiting to make a decision.
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I was expecting the FO to be cancelled, so it's nice that they are planning to reschedule. Not sure how I feel about it being a week after the USO though. Couldn't they schedule it a month or so after?

Wimbledon will likely be cancelled too. Poor Serena will never get her record grand slam total... :(
 
aftershocks

aftershocks

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^^ Scheduling the French Open a week after the conclusion of the U.S. Open sounds dicey. But U.S. Open officials are apparently considering their own rescheduling options, as a result of this decision by FO officials.

As well,
www.thephuketnews.com

Wimbledon still planning for play despite virus mayhem

TENNIS: Wimbledon organisers are still planning to play the Grand Slam this year, despite the coronavirus chaos that led the French Open to be pushed back until September.
www.thephuketnews.com www.thephuketnews.com

Per Wimbledon chief executive, Richard Lewis:

“While we continue to plan for The Championships at this time, it remains a continuously evolving situation and we will act responsibly, in the best interests of wider society.

“We thank all of our members, staff, players, partners, contractors and the public for their patience and trust as we continue to navigate this unprecedented global challenge.”
 
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