2022 Olympic Qualifying Changes?

[kwanfan1818]

No, because China, Germany, & France would have those tickets pending the results of the Olympic qualifier.

There are no placeholders: the number of spots allocated at Worlds gets fully allocated at Worlds. China, Germany, France, and the US would have been allocated one each for every team who made the FS, and CZE, PRK, and AUS would have been in after Worlds.

China, Germany, France , and the US would have been able to enter a Pair at Nebelhorn to try to earn a second spot each. Whether they got a second spot would be based on placement among all Pairs whose country was eligible to earn spots, ie, hadn't earned the maximum at Worlds until the total quota was reached.

It's not clear, but maybe

Bullet point two makes it clear: the US would have earned two spots potentially based on total points -- 10+18=28 -- but only through Worlds, because only one team made the FS. The US could have sent one team to Nebelhorn to earn the second spot, just like China, Germany, and France.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

There are no placeholders: the number of spots allocated at Worlds gets fully allocated at Worlds. China, Germany, France, and the US would have been allocated one each for every team who made the FS, and CZE, PRK, and AUS would have been in after Worlds.

China, Germany, France , and the US would have been able to enter a Pair at Nebelhorn to try to earn a second spot each. Whether they got a second spot would be based on placement among all Pairs whose country was eligible to earn spots, ie, hadn't earned the maximum at Worlds until the total quota was reached.



Bullet point two makes it clear: the US would have earned two spots potentially based on total points -- 10+18=28 -- but only through Worlds, because only one team made the FS. The US could have sent one team to Nebelhorn to earn the second spot, just like China, Germany, and France.

Right. What would have changed for the US pairs is that they would have had a chance to earn a second spot, as would France, whereas in 2018, they received a second spot for worlds but not for olympics and had no chance to earn a second spot at the olympics.

@Dobre, you’re correct. Since spots aren’t allocated by country, it’s more that the countries with the strongest athletes have spots, not that the strongest athletes earn their way there. But that still seems less arbitrary to me than saying that having one amazing skater gets you three spots at an event where many countries get none.

 

[skatingguy]

That’s not how I read it. China, Germany and France would not get a quota because their second or third team did not participate in the free at 2017 Worlds. It would only confer them the right to enter one team at Nebelhorn to earn the additional spot.

What this means if I am understanding things correctly is that qualifying for the free at Worlds in the year preceding the Olympics becomes much more important in qualifying Olympic spots. So the Czech, North Koreans and Australians would have qualified at 2017 Worlds and the US would have been entitled to send a team to Nebelhorn to pick up another spot.

There are no placeholders: the number of spots allocated at Worlds gets fully allocated a8t Worlds. China, Germany, France, and the US would have been allocated one each for every team who made the FS, and CZE, PRK, and AUS would have been in after Worlds.

China, Germany, France , and the US would have been able to enter a Pair at Nebelhorn to try to earn a second spot each. Whether they got a second spot would be based on placement among all Pairs whose country was eligible to earn spots, ie, hadn't earned the maximum at Worlds until the total quota was reached.



Bullet point two makes it clear: the US would have earned two spots potentially based on total points -- 10+18=28 -- but only through Worlds, because only one team made the FS. The US could have sent one team to Nebelhorn to earn the second spot, just like China, Germany, and France.

I can definitely see those interpretations and that will make making free skate paramount to qualifying spots for the Olympics and earning as many spots this year because it will be harder to earn multiple entries for the Olympics without multiple entries at the World Championships.

 

[Marco]

China, Germany, France , and the US would have been able to enter a Pair at Nebelhorn to try to earn a second spot each. Whether they got a second spot would be based on placement among all Pairs whose country was eligible to earn spots, ie, hadn't earned the maximum at Worlds until the total quota was reached.

And ofcourse, if this had happened, China could totally have sent Sui & Han, Germany Savchenko & Massot, France James & Cipres etc.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

And ofcourse, if this had happened, China could totally have sent Sui & Han, Germany Savchenko & Massot, France James & Cipres etc.

No, as we have discussed, the pairs who made the free at the previous years worlds to earn the spots that have already been earned are not eligible to attend Nebelhorn to earn additional spots. Sui & Han and Savchencho & Massot were 2017 World Medalists. They could not have gone. Neither could Yu and Zhang for China or James and Cipres for France or the Kneirims for the USA.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

As y'all know this is too much for ANL to follow, so expect me to ask redundant questions for the years to come!

 

[mjb52]

I'm not even trying to understand; I'll figure it out when it gets closer. I want to get through Worlds this year before worrying about an Olympics that's two years away!

 

[zebobes]

No, as we have discussed, the pairs who made the free at the previous years worlds to earn the spots that have already been earned are not eligible to attend Nebelhorn to earn additional spots. Sui & Han and Savchencho & Massot were 2017 World Medalists. They could not have gone. Neither could Yu and Zhang for China or James and Cipres for France or the Kneirims for the USA.

I think I'm going to go crazy with how many people who are going to misunderstand this point... And the Olympics are still two years away!!!

In general, I really like the new changes in rules, I just don't like how few pair spots there are available. I predict that a fairly high number of the pairs at the team event won't be able to qualify for the actual pair event.

 

[allezfred]

I'm not even trying to understand; I'll figure it out when it gets closer. I want to get through Worlds this year before worrying about an Olympics that's two years away!

Maxing out spots will be key at Worlds this year as extra spots earned at 2021 Worlds will involve a trip to the Olympic qualifier.

 

[Marco]

Maxing out spots will be key at Worlds this year as extra spots earned at 2021 Worlds will involve a trip to the Olympic qualifier.

Now that Worlds 2020 are cancelled, this is exactly what will have to happen.

For example, because Bradie and Mariah do not have a chance this season to grab that 3rd spot for US ladies for next season, even if they are able to do that next season, Alysa (or another lady) will likely have to go to 2021 Nebelhorn.

Another example is Canadian men. They only have 1 spot for 2020 Worlds and Nam does not have the chance to increase it to 2 for 2021 Worlds. Basically it means even if the CAN rep next year wins Worlds as the sole competitor, the maximum spot for CAN men at the Olympics is 2, and the second spot is conditional upon 2021 Nebelhorn.

I wonder if the rules will be adjusted to accommodate the cancellations, because basically the feds do not have a chance to react / strategize to them. How about if all countries get 3 spots for 2021 Worlds? But with the Worlds min set a bit higher? Or just remove these new rules altogether / postpone them til after 2022?

 

[barbk]

Nebelhorn in Fall 2021 is going to be a bloodbath.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe given the circumstances, they should just go back to the old rule. Or not.

 

[Colonel Green]

I wonder if the rules will be adjusted to accommodate the cancellations, because basically the feds do not have a chance to react / strategize to them. How about if all countries get 3 spots for 2021 Worlds? But with the Worlds min set a bit higher? Or just remove these new rules altogether / postpone them til after 2022?

I don't see any reason to alter the rules.

In some disciplines a country might benefit from Worlds being cancelled (e.g., Canadian ladies), in others they're potentially harmed by it (e.g., Canadian men). As far as spots go, you take the good and the bad.

 

[Coco]

Take 'em both and there you have the Facts of Life...

 

[VGThuy]

Take 'em both and there you have the Facts of Life...

The first season’s version never fails to crack me up hearing Mrs. Garrett singing like that.

 

[Sylvia]

Bumping this thread back up now that Worlds 2021 is getting closer...

The original 2022 OWG Qualifying System document is dated 4 December 2019: https://www.isu.org/docman-document...tion-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file

2021 Worlds in Stockholm is supposed to qualify:
Men Single Skating: 24
Women Single Skating: 24
Pair Skating: 32 (16 pairs)
Ice Dance: 38 (19 couples)

Nebelhorn in Fall 2021 is going to be a bloodbath.

Men Single Skating: 6 = 30 total
Women Single Skating: 6 = 30 total
Pair Skating: 6 (3 pairs) = 19 teams total
Ice Dance: 8 (4 couples) = 23 teams total

There's a separate thread to discuss the 2022 Team Event qualification (Worlds 2021 is the first qualification event - refer to page 4 of the ISU document linked above) here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...m-competition-at-the-beijing-olympics.108082/

 

[shuilee]

Can someone explain who would be the 16 that qualify if the Pairs SP results stay the same as final result? I want to make sure I understand the new rules correctly.

RUS = 1+3 = 4 (3 spots)
CHN = 2+6 = 8 (2 spots + 1 spot at Nebelhorn)
USA = 6+7 = 13 (2 spots +1 spot at Nebelhorn)
JPN = 8 (1 spot + 1 spot at Nebelhorn)
AUT = 9 (1 spot + 1 spot at Nebelhorn)
CAN = 10+12 = 22 (2 spots)
ITA = 11+15 = 26 (2 spots)
GER = 13 (1 spot)
GEO = 14 (1 spot)
CZE = 16 (1 spot)

This adds up to 16 spots. Did I do it correctly?

There are only 4 spots left at Nebelhorn. Yikes!! So CHN's #3 pairs team and USA's #3 pairs team would compete for the remaining 4 spots?

That means the smaller countries realistically only have 2 spots left.

 

[tony]

There are 3 spots at Nebelhorn, only 19 teams now at Olympics.

RUS
CHN
RUS
RUS
CHN
USA
USA
JPN
AUT
CAN
ITA
CAN
GER
GEO
ITA
CZE

Would all confirm country entries into the Olympics via Worlds, however this can obviously change based on the LP. China will almost certainly have a third entry potentially earned (third team WD from this event), the US is really on the bubble and at least one of Japan and Austria looks good to add an entry, too.

China, the USA, Japan, and Austria would all send their additional (second or third) team to Nebelhorn (cannot be any teams that are in these 16 placements at Worlds) to try to earn one of the three spots. North Korea might be in the picture again by qualifying next season, I'm not sure that anyone knows their status.

 

[Karen-W]

There are 3 spots at Nebelhorn, only 19 teams now.

RUS
CHN
RUS
RUS
CHN
USA
USA
JPN
AUT
CAN
ITA
CAN
GER
GEO
ITA
CZE

Would all confirm entries into the Olympics at Worlds, however this can obviously change based on the LP.

China, the USA, Japan, and Austria would all send their additional (second or third) team to Nebelhorn to try to earn one of the three spots. North Korea might be in the picture again by qualifying next season, I'm not sure that anyone knows their status.

Plus rumor is that Harley Windsor has a new partner, so Australia might have a pairs team in the mix. And, Spain has a new team of Barquero/Zandron who could also figure into this competition.

 

[Sabine-Yuna]

Plus rumor is that Harley Windsor has a new partner, so Australia might have a pairs team in the mix. And, Spain has a new team of Barquero/Zandron who could also figure into this competition.

Could Windsors new Russian girl possibly get Australian citizenship in less than a year?

 

[Karen-W]

Could Windsors new Russian girl possibly get Australian citizenship in less than a year?

No idea. Australia is going to have a tough time qualifying for the team event with Kailani missing the FS and no man or pairs team to earn points at Worlds. I'm also not sure if Zandron can get Spanish citizenship by next year either, so they both might not be in the mix at all.

 

[zebobes]

If the placements don't change too much, the amount of competition at Nebelhorn for the pairs spots will be crazy with only three available, but I don't think it too realistic for Japan or Austria to have a second pair competitive enough to fight for them. Another US and China team will make it a pretty tough competition though for everyone else.

 

[Karen-W]

If the placements don't change too much, the amount of competition at Nebelhorn for the pairs spots will be crazy with only three available, but I don't think it too realistic for Japan or Austria to have a second pair competitive enough to fight for them. Another US and China team will make it a pretty tough competition though for everyone else.

I don't think Japan has a 2nd pair at the moment. Austria has Choinard/Mayr who failed to get the TES mins but they're also based in Canada so who knows how much training time they had, and also there would be a question about whether or not she would have citizenship in time. My best guess is that the 3rd spot would be wide open for any team that was competing, however, there is no guarantee, IMO, that a 3rd US or Chinese team would automatically finish in the top 3. The 3rd Chinese team was on the JGP last season and didn't make much of an impression, IIRC, and US pairs are inconsistent competitors. Of the US teams, I would probably opt to send Lu/Mitrofanov because they seem like the least nervy of the teams not in Stockholm.

 

[tony]

I don't think Japan has a 2nd pair at the moment. Austria has Choinard/Mayr who failed to get the TES mins but they're also based in Canada so who knows how much training time they had, and also there would be a question about whether or not she would have citizenship in time. My best guess is that the 3rd spot would be wide open for any team that was competing, however, there is no guarantee, IMO, that a 3rd US or Chinese team would automatically finish in the top 3. The 3rd Chinese team was on the JGP last season and didn't make much of an impression, IIRC, and US pairs are inconsistent competitors. Of the US teams, I would probably opt to send Lu/Mitrofanov because they seem like the least nervy of the teams not in Stockholm.

Nah, there's no way they wouldn't send Calalang/Johnson in the event the US gets the potential third spot IMO. They can make mistakes and still easily score high enough most likely.

 

[Karen-W]

Nah, there's no way they wouldn't send Calalang/Johnson in the event the US gets the potential third spot IMO. They can make mistakes and still easily score high enough most likely.

I suppose, but they are still pretty nervous competitors, IMO. Though, to be fair, I think that Lu/Mitrofanov would also, even with mistakes, score high enough to easily place in the top 3. I just worry more about C/J's fortitude when the pressure would be on them to literally qualify that 3rd spot which would, in most all likelihood, be theirs for the taking at Nationals.

 

[VGThuy]

It might the test that they need to get over their hump. Either way, it just feels right for C/J to do it. Like either they should be there or they shouldn't. Of course, they can still earn it and then lose out at Nationals...

 

[Braulio]

No idea. Australia is going to have a tough time qualifying for the team event with Kailani missing the FS and no man or pairs team to earn points at Worlds. I'm also not sure if Zandron can get Spanish citizenship by next year either, so they both might not be in the mix at all.

Zandron is OK to participate next season for Spain at Worlds/Olympics if they qualify

 

[missing]

I've skimmed and I'm overwhelmed, so could someone tell me how high an American man at Nebelhorn would have to rank to get the US the 3 men at the Olympics, assuming Nathan and Jason have the necessary combined number at Worlds?

 

[tony]

I've skimmed and I'm overwhelmed, so could someone tell me how high an American man at Nebelhorn would have to rank to get the US the 3 men at the Olympics, assuming Nathan and Jason have the necessary combined number at Worlds?

Minimum of 6 spots available. It's the same exact process as earlier, but countries who aren't actually in the top 24 or get a spot based on what their teammates do don't automatically get handed an Olympic ticket now.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The six for singles at Nebelhorn is guaranteed, but is increased after Worlds if any NOC had two or three Ladies or Men in the Top 24, but lost a spot as a country (ex: country X has three Men, but they place 9th, 15th, and 23rd, and now only earn two for the Olympics and 2022 Worlds) -- or two (ex: three Ladies finishing 15th, 16th, 17th and only earn one spot) and then anytime before Nebelhorn, if an NOC gives back a spot.

After Nebelhorn, if any NOC gives back a spot and/or doesn't have a qualifying skater for the spot by whatever the deadline is, they go down the Nebelhorn results in order for each to try to fill the vacated spot, which would include anyone on the list from a country that earned a spot numerically, but didn't have enough skaters making the FS to nab it in Stockholm.

There's usually movement off the waiting list for one reason or another.