College administration bribery scandal

[allezfred]

Good to know it's not just US healthcare that is f*cked, but also your education system.

 

[becca]

Good to know it's not just US healthcare that is f*cked, but also your education system.

This is the tip of the iceberg. Our public education system is completely unfair. Funding is based on local districts rich kids in rich districts get way more funding than the poor. And this isn’t just about race rural areas get screwed.
These kids already had the deck stacked so heavily in their favor.

This being said having been in the inner cities schools it’s not just funding that is an issue.

One can disagree with college scholarships for athletes but it takes a lot of work and in cases money to compete at the college level and the work it takes to compete. This would be like buying your way into the Olympics.

 

[rfisher]

This. I’ve been railing for years that the NCAA should be abolished and basketball and football should have minor leagues where players get paid. The sham of providing an education to the big-sport athletes has long been obvious.

My nephew went to Williams partially because he was an excellent cross-country skier and my friend’s son went to Pitt as a swimmer. Both had the grades and scores to get in anyway but scholarship $ at Pitt was helpful and Williams is as hard to get into as the Ivys. I still oppose athletic criteria for admission.

Never going to happen when schools make $$$$$$$ from top athletic programs. Minor sports, they just keep because of Title IX. Football and basketball are money makers and increase alumni funding for top schools. Now, that being said, the Ivies don't usually fit into that group.

The fraud here wasn't for NCAA scholarships. That's an entirely different scandal and most schools are really careful about this because losing post season bowl games or tournaments can cost a lot of money for the bigger sports. These were for making your application look good. Schools find ways around NCAA rules, in particular recruiting and minimal GPAs for athletes they want to keep and those they want to drop. But, that's not the same as listing a sport on your application to improve your college admission chances. A lot of figure skaters compete through high school for exactly this. It looks good just like other extra curricular activities.

 

[Coco]

Even at small schools, Athletics play a huge role in the finances of the University. Alumni give more when the home team wins. Sports teams raise the profile of the school and allow them to be more selective with their applicants.

 

[PatChan4O]

The NCAA will have its big announcement Sunday afternoon of the 64 (?) teams selected to play in the Tournament. Not sure if they’ll tackle this in any way.

 

[Debbie S]

Even at small schools, Athletics play a huge role in the finances of the University. Alumni give more when the home team wins. Sports teams raise the profile of the school and allow them to be more selective with their applicants.

That's true for universities in major conferences in Division I. The others (like the Ivies and schools in Division III), not so much. Yes, students are recruited for their athletic ability and it gives them an advantage in admissions, but sports at those schools are not revenue-producing. Many do have a "Friends of Athletics" or similar alumni affinity group that fundraises for the sports programs, but there are affinity groups covering other academic and extracurricular areas too. Affinity groups do boost fundraising overall, so I suppose there is a small monetary benefit to having strong athletic programs in Division III.

 

[Winnipeg]

I think cheating on the entrance exam is grounds for expulsion but you can't be expelled until you are "in" and then cheating in university is grounds for expulsion...……….or at least, it used to be.

 

[MacMadame]

As some have already said though, is this really that new? Parents (and other relatives, and potentially people inside who really really want someone on their sports team who is otherwise unqualified for example?) doing whatever they can to get their kids into the best schools, whether it's outright bribes or making donations or pulling strings to get their application higher on list and using whatever alumni/legacy connections they have to make it happen?

But as has been said by others, that isn't what this scandal is about. It's about doing illegal things and cheating on exams and lying.

My mom has been in academia for over 40 years including as a high-level administrator and currently as a professor. She is absolutely shocked. The idea that an SAT official would changes a student's answers after the fact is mind-boggling to both of us. That puts all SAT results of all students under question and could bring down the entire SAT system.

She also told me that the President of her university was asked by a rich alum to get his son into the school and the President's reply was: if we did that, this wouldn't be a school you wanted your son to go to.

Oh, and in the case of Felicity Huffman's and William Macy's daughters, the older one got the help, they apparently think the younger one will be fine and didn't do it for her. So there's a big bill for family counseling coming.

:ha: That was my thought too!

Though maybe Felicity just decided that she didn't get her money's worth the first time.

I was running around a track at an elite HS yesterday while the little HS freshman were playing lacrosse and thinking: this is the kind of place where the kids feel enormous pressure to get into big name schools. But I just don't get it. Of course, this is also why I chose to live in a different part of the Bay Area and a different part of my town, one where every economic level is represented, not just rich kids. I wanted my kids to understand that not everyone is as privileged as they were and not to feel like they were oh-so-put-upon because they weren't going to get a BMW for their 16th birthday (though these days it's probably a Tesla that those kids get ).

Sure I wanted my kids to go to college but any college would have done. No one cares where you went to school 10 years later, only that you have a degree. And, sure, you get a better network at an Ivy but if your parents are rich enough to bribe your way into school, you are already tapped into that network to some extent.


Btw, when I lived in the Princeton area and dated someone going there, I saw first-hand that the Ivies will do anything in their power to get you through and out with a degree once you get in. The students who were struggling got way more hand-holding and interventions and second/third/fourth changes than anyone did at my college.


To @allezfred's point.... this article points out that this fraud only worked because our college admission system is broken:

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/12/18262037/college-admissions-scandal-felicity-huffman

 

[Coco]

$15,000 to raise one kid's sat score seems shrewd.

But $250,000 per kid to get them into USC? That is something that seems DUMB to me.

I'm looking forward to civil suits by waitlisted kids. This is going to be epic.

I think the parents were doing this for prestige FOR THEMSELVES and to have a sense of control over a scary process. The kids probably didn't care too much. If a kid cared that much about getting into a specific school, they'd probably be more driven, maybe...

 

[Vagabond]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/us/college-admissions-cheating-scandal.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

I wonder what entirely separate EVILLE things the target was suspected of doing.

Here's the answer:

According to the authorities, William Singer, the head of a college preparatory business and the founder of the charity, met with Ms. Huffman and Mr. Macy in their Los Angeles home and explained how he could help them. Mr. Singer, who has pleaded guilty and is cooperating with investigators — he is identified as “cooperating witness 1” in the indictments — said he could arrange for their daughter’s SAT proctor to secretly correct her wrong answers and boost her score. “CW-1 has advised investigators that Huffman and her spouse agreed to the plan,” the indictment said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

 

[becca]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.democratandchronicle.com/amp/3148975002

My favorite part is she talks in the end about a kid who scored super high on his tests and said no to the Ivies because he wanted no debt and to be financially responsible. The whole educational system in this country is a mess.

This being said I knew a girl top five out of a class of like 800 great test scores chose to go to state school not even top one because full ride.

She graduated in three years of course. Perfect grades. A top insurance company signed up for their actuarial program

She had guaranteed job. You have to be smart to pass those tests. Guarantee you she is doing just fine.

 

[Rob]

Color me cynical, but I actually laughed when I read "There can be no separate college admission for wealthy,"

Right, this scandal seems to have been the admissions methodology for the medium rich who can't endow a building or aren't legacy families. But organized cheating on SATs, fake athletics, bribery, please.

I don't feel bad for Olivia Jade: https://pagesix.com/2019/03/12/lori...-student-status-after-alleged-bribery-scheme/
“But I’m gonna go in and talk to my deans and everyone, and hope that I can try and balance it all. But I do want the experience of like game days, partying, I don’t really care about school, as you guys all know.”

 

[Vagabond]

“But I’m gonna go in and talk to my deans and everyone, and hope that I can try and balance it all. But I do want the experience of like game days, partying, I don’t really care about school, as you guys all know.”

Does she realize that that means "Expel me, please" in academic speech?

 

[Winnipeg]

Gee, I thought anyone could get into USC undergrad...……..

The girl who wants to experience college life...…..maybe they should create a college as a vacation reality option as an alternate to Eco Tours

, geez

 

[Debbie S]

It seems like there needs to be a separate investigation of the College Board. How would a test proctor have the correct answers to the entire SAT test in his/her possession? I suppose the person could be a genius who would know all the answers but that seems unlikely.

I remember reading an article years ago about a scandal involving community college transfers at Yale and maybe a couple other top schools. The applicants had paid off someone in their school's registrar's office to alter their official transcript. I think the scheme started to unravel when professors saw the students' actual work and wondered how they could have been admitted to the university in the first place. And I also remember reading about various schemes where wealthy students paid someone else to take the SAT for them. Cheating has been around for a long time. But I would imagine it doesn't just exist in the U.S.

 

[Jenny]

But as has been said by others, that isn't what this scandal is about. It's about doing illegal things and cheating on exams and lying.

I was responding to another post that I quoted that suggested that the elite network method of getting into schools is a newish thing, because otherwise yes, this is beyond that. Similar roots though.

She also told me that the President of her university was asked by a rich alum to get his son into the school and the President's reply was: if we did that, this wouldn't be a school you wanted your son to go to.

Does she realize that that means "Expel me, please" in academic speech?

Seems to me this is what she might want. This might in fact work nicely for her - kicked out of school for nothing she personally did, still gets to party with her friends on game day and all that, more free time for her burgeoning whateveryoucallit career, takes on the role of poor victim of parents who loved her soooo much, and of course, her name is in the news, which is what people like that seem to care about most, aside from money and freebies and the lifestyle of course.

 

[MsZem]

I don't even get why Lori Loughlin and her husband bothered - their daughter was clearly doing fine on her own as a beauty/lifestyle vlogger, and she sounds too vapid even for a party school.

This. I’ve been railing for years that the NCAA should be abolished and basketball and football should have minor leagues where players get paid. The sham of providing an education to the big-sport athletes has long been obvious.

I do like the idea of student-athletes from disadvantaged backgrounds getting an opportunity to receive an education. It can be tough to excel academically coming out of a school with less funding and educational offerings, and minor league sports pay very little and the likelihood of a major league payday are slim - or at least that's the case in baseball.

Obviously, a lot of the people getting athletic scholarships in high visibility football/basketball programs are not necessarily getting a chance to pursue difficult majors. But at least it's a chance. Fun story: a high school classmate of mine got a full-ride basketball scholarship at a good public school, redshirted one year so he was there for five years, and left with an MBA. But he was also an honor roll student in high school.

 

[Rob]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.democratandchronicle.com/amp/3148975002

My favorite part is she talks in the end about a kid who scored super high on his tests and said no to the Ivies because he wanted no debt and to be financially responsible. The whole educational system in this country is a mess.

This being said I knew a girl top five out of a class of like 800 great test scores chose to go to state school not even top one because full ride.

Right, I went to Hunter College because I got financial aid and could afford it. I was an A HS student who did not standardize test well so my SATs weren't over the top plus I worked for years before going to college. Didn't apply anywhere else. Didn't try to transfer after getting some As. Got into law school, have had the same jobs as a bunch of Harvard and Penn and UVA and Stanford grads. I'm sure I could have made it academically, but I just fit in much better at Hunter - we were all working and going to school at the same time. Lots of undergrads my age (late 20s, early 30s). Normal stuff. I loved Hunter.

 

[quartz]

It seems like there needs to be a separate investigation of the College Board. How would a test proctor have the correct answers to the entire SAT test in his/her possession? I suppose the person could be a genius who would know all the answers but that seems unlikely.

I remember reading an article years ago about a scandal involving community college transfers at Yale and maybe a couple other top schools. The applicants had paid off someone in their school's registrar's office to alter their official transcript. I think the scheme started to unravel when professors saw the students' actual work and wondered how they could have been admitted to the university in the first place. And I also remember reading about various schemes where wealthy students paid someone else to take the SAT for them. Cheating has been around for a long time. But I would imagine it doesn't just exist in the U.S.

I'm a proctor - I do not have access to any answer keys, and am appalled that a proctor would intentionally change a students answers.

 

[Winnipeg]

Still bitter about the paid entry onto the UCLA dance team...……….

 

[Vagabond]

Gee, I thought anyone could get into USC undergrad...……..

Not anymore. Its undergraduate acceptance rate for 2018 was 13%.

https://news.usc.edu/139338/usc-acceptance-rate-fall-2018-admission/

 

[MacMadame]

And I also remember reading about various schemes where wealthy students paid someone else to take the SAT for them. Cheating has been around for a long time. But I would imagine it doesn't just exist in the U.S.

I know that students paying someone to take the exam for them has been happening forever. But I assumed that was a somewhat isolated event.

We know cheating happens in other countries as there have been other scandals such as what is going on in India where parents were blatantly helping their children with their exams. The pictures of parents hanging onto the windows of the rooms where their kids were taking a test was all over the news and hundreds of people were arrested.


Btw, I want to know why all the articles say Felicity Huffman did this instead of what really happened: William Macy and Felicity Huffman did this. His name is often not mentioned at all not even in the story but he's just as guilty as she is. They are somewhat doing the same with Lori Loughlin. Her name is in the headlines. But they mention the husband in the story and her husband hasn't got the name recognition of William Macy.

 

[becca]

I was responding to another post that I quoted that suggested that the elite network method of getting into schools is a newish thing, because otherwise yes, this is beyond that. Similar roots though.








Seems to me this is what she might want. This might in fact work nicely for her - kicked out of school for nothing she personally did, still gets to party with her friends on game day and all that, more free time for her burgeoning whateveryoucallit career, takes on the role of poor victim of parents who loved her soooo much, and of course, her name is in the news, which is what people like that seem to care about most, aside from money and freebies and the lifestyle of course.

Yes but people are calling on her sponsors to dump her. Her parents may have hurt her from having the career she actually wants.

 

[Vagabond]

Btw, I want to know why all the articles say Felicity Huffman did this instead of what really happened: William Macy and Felicity Huffman did this. His name is often not mentioned at all not even in the story but he's just as guilty as she is.

She has been arrested; he hasn't.

https://www.vulture.com/2019/03/william-h-macy-felicity-huffman-college-cheating-scandal.html

Why was Macy kept (semi-)anonymous in the complaint? Roiphe explained that when a conspirator isn’t named, it could be evidence that they had cooperated with the investigation. Or prosecutors could simply not be ready to charge them yet. (On Tuesday afternoon, Macy turned up in court alongside his lawyer.)

Public figure though he may be, for the media to say he was just as guilty as his wife would be to risk liability for libel.

 

[Habs]

I'm a proctor - I do not have access to any answer keys, and am appalled that a proctor would intentionally change a students answers.

I know you're a proctor, and I've been waiting for you to chime in, @quartz!

 

[MacMadame]

I do like the idea of student-athletes from disadvantaged backgrounds getting an opportunity to receive an education. It can be tough to excel academically coming out of a school with less funding and educational offerings, and minor league sports pay very little and the likelihood of a major league payday are slim - or at least that's the case in baseball.

The problem is that the majority of college athletes don't fall into this category. Most of them are white and, if not exactly wealthy, are at least middle class.

Public figure though he may be, for the media to say he was just as guilty as his wife would be to risk liability for libel.

The media never says anyone is guilty until they are actually found guilty or cop a plea. They could certain have mentioned his name in the articles and most of them didn't. I was assuming sexism but if he was semi-anonymous in the complaint, it was probably just laziness. Or maybe a combination of both.

Not to mention, there are 50 people who have been charged and they only show the pictures of the two actresses.

 

[made_in_canada]

Btw, I want to know why all the articles say Felicity Huffman did this instead of what really happened: William Macy and Felicity Huffman did this. His name is often not mentioned at all not even in the story but he's just as guilty as she is. They are somewhat doing the same with Lori Loughlin. Her name is in the headlines. But they mention the husband in the story and her husband hasn't got the name recognition of William Macy.

I was curious about the same thing.

 

[Jay42]

The problem is that the majority of college athletes don't fall into this category. Most of them are white and, if not exactly wealthy, are at least middle class.


The media never says anyone is guilty until they are actually found guilty or cop a plea. They could certain have mentioned his name in the articles and most of them didn't. I was assuming sexism but if he was semi-anonymous in the complaint, it was probably just laziness. Or maybe a combination of both.

Not to mention, there are 50 people who have been charged and they only show the pictures of the two actresses.

If/until Macy is charged we probably won’t hear his name mentioned as much.

As for Lori Laughlin’s husband not being mentioned, she is Aunt Becky from Full House so a lot of people still know who she is. I had no idea who her husband was before yesterday.

As for the media only showing pictures of the actresses, it sucks but because they are famous using them virtually guarantees people will look at the articles.

 

[Prancer]

None of this should be surprising.

Maybe that's why no one is surprised.

Never going to happen when schools make $$$$$$$ from top athletic programs.

That's the argument that most athletic programs make to justify their existence, but for years--since I was in freshman comp as a student, in fact--I have been seeing evidence that that isn't the case.

https://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx
https://www.al.com/sports/2014/08/ncaa_study_finds_all_but_20_fb.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...tball-s-top-teams-are-built-on-crippling-debt
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-college-football-is-forever-20170106-story.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...-its-wasted-money-not-wasted-students/251922/

Again, I could post a lot of links about this. Every time budget cuts come up, the academic people trot out all kinds of data showing that sports programs lose money and .......the academic budget cuts go through anyway and the sport programs go on.

The donations that do come in tend to go right to the athletic programs, so the school overall doesn't even benefit.

My mom has been in academia for over 40 years including as a high-level administrator and currently as a professor. She is absolutely shocked. The idea that an SAT official would changes a student's answers after the fact is mind-boggling to both of us. That puts all SAT results of all students under question and could bring down the entire SAT system.

Really? I am not shocked at all and think the SAT was on its way out anyway--maybe not for years yet, but still.

But organized cheating on SATs, fake athletics, bribery, please.

Yes, SS, just a somewhat DD.

Here's the answer:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

Isn't this the same investigation?

“But I’m gonna go in and talk to my deans and everyone, and hope that I can try and balance it all. But I do want the experience of like game days, partying, I don’t really care about school, as you guys all know.”

But merit!

Btw, I want to know why all the articles say Felicity Huffman did this instead of what really happened: William Macy and Felicity Huffman did this. His name is often not mentioned at all not even in the story but he's just as guilty as she is. They are somewhat doing the same with Lori Loughlin. Her name is in the headlines. But they mention the husband in the story and her husband hasn't got the name recognition of William Macy.

I suspect it's because they have recordings of phone calls with her in which she explicitly works out details of the scam, while all they have on him is a report that he was involved. Lori Laughlin's husband wrote a check, I think?

But I dunno.

 

[MsZem]

The problem is that the majority of college athletes don't fall into this category. Most of them are white and, if not exactly wealthy, are at least middle class.

I know - the default is to think of football and basketball players, and there probably is more diversity there. But obviously you have sports like lacrosse and hockey and rowing which are much less diverse.

PRlady did mention football/basketball and the idea of having minor leagues for that, but minor leagues really are not a good deal. MiLB players only get paid during the season, and not much at that. Most of them will never see a major league roster. A college scholarship is worth much more than a minor league salary, if used wisely.