U.S. Men in 2018 - articles & latest news

[rinettoii]

Camden should have really moved up this season with all the retirements with the US Men. No country over the last 5-6 years has had the depth that the US had with its men but with Adam,Max.Grant and Ross retiring the depth isn't there now. With the exception of Nathan, Vincent and Jason Camden could easily beat the rest of the US men such as Alex Johnson, Timothy D and the others. It's going to take yjr younger skaters to rebuild that depth. He might not have quads but Jason has shown you can be competitive with no quads and he wouldn't embarrass himself.

I very much agree you. I can think of two main reasons as to why he stayed...
1. His SB was not very, but also not very low. Basically, he was bordering between one GP and no GP, so that would have to be something to take into consideration.
2. I think he's probably the best junior man out there right now. Why not ride that wave and win everything so that he can have the WS, SB, and everything else?

 

[aftershocks]

I think Camden is fine having stayed in Juniors for this season. He can move up to seniors next season. Actually, some skaters compete in Juniors internationally and seniors nationally. Camden might still have that option. I don't see the big need for him rushing to full-on senior competition this season. He's got time and options. And yeah, let Camden explore further winning possibilities as a junior internationally, which also gives him a chance to work on and improve more aspects of his skating before he takes the senior plunge.

 

[VGThuy]

I think Camden is wise to stay a junior for now. He still has things he needs to build on skills wise and I think staying one year in junior will give him less pressure while working on those things. He can debut as a senior feeling a little more confident to progress in that level.

 

[Stephanie]

Camden will be competing at seniors nationally and he already competed senior at the Philadelphia Summer International. Just because he's competing on the JGP doesn't mean he can't compete at Worlds or 4CC later in the season (like Dornbush did and Nathan Chen was supposed to before his injury). Plus he's still working on quads (AFAIK he hasn't landed one in competition yet) so makes sense to start the season in juniors with less pressure as others have said.

 

[VGThuy]

Camden will be competing at seniors nationally and he already competed senior at the Philadelphia Summer International. Just because he's competing on the JGP doesn't mean he can't compete at Worlds or 4CC later in the season (like Dornbush did and Nathan Chen was supposed to before his injury). Plus he's still working on quads (AFAIK he hasn't landed one in competition yet) so makes sense to start the season in juniors with less pressure as others have said.

Oh right! I find it's pretty common in the U.S. Not as common in ice dance, but even Samuelson/Bates competed as seniors in Nationals before winning the Junior World title.

 

[haribobo]

Senior Men in US ranked by intl score and likely sectional competition, thanks to unseen skaters for info.

Jason Brown 233 BYE
Camden Pulkinen 223 BYE
Tomoki Hiwatashi 213 (bye if JGPF) M
Timothy Dolensky 209 E
Andrew Torgashev 206 (bye if JGPF) M
Jimmy Ma 206 E
Vincent Zhou 204 BYE
Sean Rabbitt 195 P
Alex Krasnozhon 194 BYE
Nathan Chen TBD BYE
Alex Johnson TBD BYE

East- Dolensky, Ma, T. Lu, K. Shum
Mids- Hiwatashi, Savary, Torgashev, Moeller, Rupp, Jalovick
Pacs- Rabbitt, Kulenkamp, Hubbart, Frohling, Payannet, Friess

 

[Sylvia]

Alex Johnson should have a bye through Mids due to his NHK Trophy assignment.
Qualifying for the JGP Final would give Torgashev and/or Hiwatashi a bye through Mids to Nationals (like Pulkinen).
Ryan Dunk is staying Junior.

 

[Dobre]

Camden! See you in Vancouver.

 

[YukiNieve]

Tim Dolensky article and photos by Miwako Nagata from Lombardia Trophy (well worth reading, IMO): https://europeonice.com/2018/09/26/tim-dolensky-looking-back-and-forward/

“When I was little, I loved watching Timothy Goebel because he could do those quads so easily – he was my favourite. When I was a bit older my favourite skater was Jeremy (Abbott), and now I would say that Jeremy and Josh Farris are my favourites. They are the ones who have inspired me the most. I love their skating and I love both of their personalities. I love the way they skate, and I try to emulate that with my skating as much as I can. I want to skate like that.

“Josh and I are from the same generation of skaters and we competed as rivals, but we are also friends. It was really fun competing with him for so many years. He inspired me, and I inspired him in his music choice. I was the one who suggested he skate to ‘Libertango’ by Astor Piazzolla for his short programme in the 2013-14 season. We keep in contact and we text sometimes. I posted pictures of us from Broadmoor, before and after. That was fun. It’s great that his second career as a coach is starting off so well.”

I remember when Timothy, Josh, and Jason skated together at 2012 World Junior Figure Skating Championships.

 

[Sylvia]

Timothy Dolensky Focuses on Love for Skating by Jennifer Zeleski: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...thy-dolensky-focuses-on-love-for-skating.aspx

 

[Sylvia]

SILVER at the JGP in Ljubljana, Slovenia today for Tomoki HIWATASHI - total score of 215.16; 3rd (74.17) [SP Video] 3rd (140.99) [FS Video].

With the 7th and final JGP happening next week in Yerevan, Armenia, Tomoki has qualified for his first JGP Final with 2 silver medals, along with Camden Pulkinen who won gold & silver (Andrew Torgashev currently sits in 4th place in the standings with a gold & 4th place and will [ETA: should] qualify as the third U.S. man as long as the favored Russian, Mozalev, wins the gold in Yerevan). (I've edited the final sentence because I messed up my calculations earlier. )

 

[Dobre]

See you at the Final, Tomoki! This was the one I most wanted to see among the junior men. Though, I'd sure love to see Koshiro also. And that clean SP for Camden last week was fantastic. Congratulations to Camden, Andrew, and Tomoki for doing their job out there on the regular JGP this season. Some super tough competitive moments for all of them. Camden having to skate right after that clean SP from Mozalev last week, Andrew having to win after the 4th place at his first event, and Tomoki having to go up against Gogolev at home in Canada along with this 6-deep field in Slovenia. Good on you, guys.

 

[kwanfan1818]

(Andrew Torgashev currently sits in 4th place in the standings with a gold & 4th place and will qualify as the third U.S. man as long as the favored Russian, Mozalev, wins the gold in Yerevan).

I only see two men who could push Torgashev down from 4th: Mozalev with a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th (winning the total points tiebreak), and one of the four Men with 11 or 9 points -- currently Fa, Kishina,and Kagiyama scheduled, and Murashov, were they to swap him in for Danelian -- with a 1st. If any Man with 11 wins silver, he loses to Torgashev on first tiebreak, since Torgashev has a win.

What am I missing?

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Just gritted my teeth through Nathan's JO free. I turned it off after the 3rd quad fall. You cannot have 2 careers. It's a shame he's splitting his time. He could have put off college for a few seasons. Lot's of chance to go to college - even ivy league ones. But, he doesn't have that much time as an elite athlete. Unless, secretly he's had enough.

When he announced he was going to attend Yale while keeping up his skating I thought - oh,oh. Thinking of Gao, Flack, even Thomas who was pretty successful.

 

[Sylvia]

Just gritted my teeth through Nathan's JO free. I turned it off after the 3rd quad fall. You cannot have 2 careers. It's a shame he's splitting his time. He could have put off college for a few seasons.

It's the first time he competed his new FS in public. No need to panic yet. It's Nathan's life to live as he wants and he doesn't owe skating fans anything. Let's see what happens at Skate America.

 

[Sylvia]

Alexander Johnson Savors Every Chance to Compete by Lynn Rutherford (published Oct. 4): https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...r-johnson-savors-every-chance-to-compete.aspx
Excerpts:

"Usually every summer, I'm like, 'Who is going to get a Grand Prix?' and wondering what is going to happen," Johnson, a senior at University of Minnesota's Carlton School of Management, said. "This year, I knew I had a shot because of retirements and my season's best (score), but I kind of wasn't paying attention."
Instead, his summer was occupied by the coveted internship, which involved assisting Lazard's bankers with crafting pitches to potential clients; performing due diligence by sorting through documents pertinent to deals; helping to value private companies by looking for comparable public entities; and other tasks ...
Lazard was impressed. Johnson's hard work and enthusiasm won him a job offer, starting next spring.

"I just need all of my elements there," he said. "No quad for me, I'm past that point. I want to have another one of those special moments we all dream of, that clean performance, and I think it's doable. I'm definitely looking for that at NHK and nationals this year."
"Alex brings a maturity to the ice you don't see much these days," [Pqge] Lipe said. "We're going to focus on that, to make sure he does his job technically, but make the artistry stand out."
Caryn Kadavy, who trains Johnson alongside Lipe, thinks Johnson may just produce his best skating in the coming months.
"He is building for the season and training appropriately," Kadavy said. "I can see a maturity that happened because of the summer (internship). He's in great shape, he kept himself up through the summer. The goal is to be in top shape for NHK and nationals."

 

[Lizziebeth]

Wonderful article about Alexander Johnson. Sounds like he has a bright future. Hope his skating season goes well and he retires from skating on a high note.

 

[mtnskater]

A little worried about Nathan after JO skate...mainly because I’m a big fan. It’s not an important competition though so hopefully he will be more ready in a few weeks for the GP. I like the program music and his fluidity and arm movements look improved. I’d like to see more transitions in there...a little too much stroking and jumping in parts. Shallow note: not a fan of the messy hair look on him. He’s got a chiseled jaw, which I thought went perfectly with his Olympic chiseled hair cut. Let’s hope we see him in World Champion form again soon!

 

[Willin]

@mtnskater @SkateFanBerlin FWIW, he came to Japan as late as humanly possible while still able to make the competition, so he probably faced severe jet lag and lack of time to practice beforehand. If he skated clean despite the jet lag that would be crazy.

 

[A.H.Black]

A little worried about Nathan after JO skate...mainly because I’m a big fan. It’s not an important competition though so hopefully he will be more ready in a few weeks for the GP. I like the program music and his fluidity and arm movements look improved. I’d like to see more transitions in there...a little too much stroking and jumping in parts. Shallow note: not a fan of the messy hair look on him. He’s got a chiseled jaw, which I thought went perfectly with his Olympic chiseled hair cut. Let’s hope we see him in World Champion form again soon!

He usually cuts the hair later in the season - at least for Nationals.

 

[misskarne]

It's the first weekend in October, folks. It's not panic stations yet.

 

[starrynight]

What is Nathan's coaching situation at the moment? (Sorry I'm a bit out of the loop).

 

[skatingguy]

What is Nathan's coaching situation at the moment? (Sorry I'm a bit out of the loop).

He's coaching himself while at school.

 

[Willin]

@starrynight @skatingguy He's not quite coaching himself. There's a couple of coaches he does consult with at the rink he uses for practice (idk how much they actually work with him regularly). He also does regular video check-ins with Rafael and will be going back to train in LA on breaks.

 

[starrynight]

Is school on at the moment? Sounds really stressful for Nathan if he has to go back to school and try to correct his jumps, step sequences etc on his own in time for Skate America?

 

[Carolla5501]

Just gritted my teeth through Nathan's JO free. I turned it off after the 3rd quad fall. You cannot have 2 careers. It's a shame he's splitting his time. He could have put off college for a few seasons. Lot's of chance to go to college - even ivy league ones. But, he doesn't have that much time as an elite athlete. Unless, secretly he's had enough.

When he announced he was going to attend Yale while keeping up his skating I thought - oh,oh. Thinking of Gao, Flack, even Thomas who was pretty successful.

I’m sorry he should do what he wants to do and it should not matter to us what he does. Yes you can go to College later, no it’s not the same experience. It’s not the same if you’re 25 and everyone else is 18. I hope he has a wonderful time

Second-guessing by fans only proves that we really aren’t privy to the entire situation.

But the career of a figure skater is a short one, and I can hardly fault a young man for thinking beyond that short career

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Seems people aren't looking at this critically. Nathan receives financial support from USFS. He takes the spot of other skaters. It's not just his decision.

If it wasn't for Yale we would be asking what's wrong. His solution includes coaching himself? Doesn't experience show skaters in elite academic programs rarely meet their skating goals? He wouldn't be the first 18 YO to make rash decisions.

(In the run up to Pyongchang he was quoted as saying he's not sure if he is up to another 4 years. Maybe he's had enough.)

 

[VGThuy]

Well, he earned that financial support and those GP spots. If his skating fails to garner the same results that gave him those things then other skaters will take advantage and Nathan may not be entitled to those spots next season.

 

[Sylvia]

Seems people aren't looking at this critically. Nathan receives financial support from USFS. He takes the spot of other skaters. It's not just his decision.

He's not taking the "spot" of any skaters, U.S. or otherwise.

Re-posting an article that was published right after Champs Camp: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...nathan-chen-packs-his-bags-for-new-haven.aspx

How effective will training with longtime coach Rafael Arutunian, based almost 3,000 miles away in Southern California, be when it's limited to competition weeks, holidays and Skype? With a full slate of classes, can he train enough to maintain his quadruple jumps? Will his academic and competition schedules collide?
"It's still a work in progress, obviously," Chen, 19, said during Champs Camp. "I'll be moving to New Haven on Thursday (Aug. 23). Fortunately, I have a lot of people helping me; Yale staff and U.S. Figure Skating are combining forces to help me out."

ETA: @SkateFanBerlin, the concerns you've raised here already were hashed out among fans back in the spring after the news of Nathan's intention to attend Yale and continue competing first emerged - copying over an article link and relevant excerpt from that thread: http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/05/02/nathan-chen-yale-figure-skating/
Excerpt:

He has the option of taking up to two full semesters off before the 2022 Winter Games.
“This first year is to decide, see how much I can handle them both [school and skating], then go from there,” he said.
Chen does not plan to seek a second coach close to Yale to supplement his Southern California-based coach, Rafael Arutyunyan.
“I’ll try to get back [to California] as much as I can, slash bring Raf [to New Haven] as much as I can, but I think most of it will have to be done pretty remotely,” he said. “I’ll just stick with Raf and check in with him at the end of every week.
“I’ve spent 13 years of my life on the ice, so I already know the fundamentals of skating. Raf has educated me well to take the reins myself. We’ll try it. If it works, it works. If it doesn’t, we’ll try to figure out something else.”

 

[jlai]

I don't seem to remember any one saying that Dolensky, Alexei, Johnson, or Zhou taking away spots from another skater, though they all have less than stellar outings.

Seems people aren't looking at this critically. Nathan receives financial support from USFS. He takes the spot of other skaters. It's not just his decision.

If it wasn't for Yale we would be asking what's wrong. His solution includes coaching himself? Doesn't experience show skaters in elite academic programs rarely meet their skating goals? He wouldn't be the first 18 YO to make rash decisions.

Financial support through team envelope is based on a skater's national and international placement previous season. You can get funding through only national placements.

GP assignments were based on his world placement, which is #1. USFSA doesn't assign him GPs.
AFAIK, he is not self coaching.