The Skating Lesson

[misskarne]

TBH I kinda wonder how many of TSL's fanatical fans actually skate and how many of their crazy fans are just random people that happened into figure skating via Yuri on Ice or some other fandom. I knew very few skaters/coaches who watched or cared or even knew about them when Jenny was there. Once Jenny left I know exactly 0 skaters/coaches who like them. Some will watch or follow the FB page for the news/scoops Dave gets, but that's about it.

I think it's a bit unfair to pin this one on YoI fans - there's legit things to be mad at some of them for, but this isn't it. Sadly, TSL's besotted fans are a portion of the figure skating fanbase that gets off on being as bitchy and catty as possible and think this sort of behaviour is cute and adorable and sassy.

You know, the ones that are pretty much the whole cause of the stereotype of figure skating as a bitter, catty sport.

 

[LKR]

Whenever they're discussing gymnastics, I only ask Jonathan to SHUT UP. Because the sport is clearly not his thing, which is fine as long as he doesn't pretend that it is. But he injects himself as this conversationalist who knows something when he knows nothing. Let Dave do his analysis because he at least follows the sport.

Jonathan seems lovely and I don't mean to harp on him. But even with skating, when you have a guest like Duhamel you just let her to do the talking. Don't interject with some random opera analogy every five seconds which kills the momentum. I've had issues with Lease over the years, but at least he generally lets the guests do what they're supposed to do, talk. While his opinions are controversial they're certainly interesting, and I find myself agreeing more than I expect.

 

[Frau Muller]

TSL is great. Period. I’m sure that the skating establishment hates their guts, which makes me cheer them all the louder. For ex., how else would we have had the true scoops on USFS “Campy Champs PR Fluff” event...err...Champs Camp? Thanks, Dave Lease & Team for your service to skating fan humanity! It’s my favorite podcast by a mile.

 

[CaliSteve]

As are their die-hard fans.

https://twitter.com/springflower95/status/1034287590516645889

In all fairness, that tweet was asking people to stop complaining about the sound quality.

 

[savchenkoboss]

I’m sure that the skating establishment hates their guts

One of the few things I still like about them.

 

[CaliSteve]

TSL is great. Period. I’m sure that the skating establishment hates their guts, which makes me cheer them all the louder. For ex., how else would we have had the true scoops on USFS “Campy Champs PR Fluff” event...err...Champs Camp? Thanks, Dave Lease & Team for your service to skating fan humanity! It’s my favorite podcast by a mile.

I like TSL as well and enjoy the "scoops".

I do think people have valid complaints when they start criticizing/making fun of a skater/coach personal traits. That's crossing the line.

I think TSL could be influential in a positive way if they were more tactful in their critiques.

 

[Frau Muller]

I like TSL as well and enjoy the "scoops".

I do think people have valid complaints when they start criticizing/making fun of a skater/coach personal traits. That's crossing the line.

I think TSL could be influential in a positive way if they were more tactful in their critiques.

Yes, you’re right there. I didn’t care for the insinuation that Starr Andrews only skates to Afro or African-American music. It’s like saying that Satoko Miyahara performs only to Japanese themes, even though she did that last season (Geisha SP, Mme Butterfly LP)..,but not every year.

Adding-

Sorry for a tangent but...
This reminds me a great Dick Buttonism during a 1980s telecast of Olympics or Worlds. As an Italian dance team skated their free to a tarantella, Uncle Dick quipped, “...They seem to always skate to an Alitalia commercial!”

 

[Tavi]

I like that TSL is filling a void. I really like their interviews and they’ve had some good ones recently, including Raf. I love that Megan has cohosted on a couple of shows. I also appreciate the fact that they break news.

I do think they sometimes digress too much, and Jonathan has a habit of cutting Dave off just when he might be about to say something interesting. On the other hand, I like how Jonathan brings in the music and performance aspect.

So yeah. Sometimes they are too catty, and yes, the sound was awful on that recent show with Megan, which was annoying- but they apparently didn’t realize the problem when they were recording and they acknowledged the issue on the next show and clearly tried their best to fix it.

All in all, when they meander too much it gets tiresome; when they’re too catty or appear to be targeting a particular skater, I get annoyed. But overall I enjoy the show and appreciate the fact that they both do it in addition to their day jobs.

 

[shan]

In all fairness, that tweet was asking people to stop complaining about the sound quality.

Oh yes, I got that. It said "vitriolic criticism " which I couldn't see anywhere in that thread of tweets complaining about the sound. It was all so . I was very amused.

 

[kwanatic]

TSL is what it is. I appreciate it for what they bring to the fandom of the sport, even though I don't always agree with everything they say. I do give them kudos for keeping up with the entire sport. My blog follows just the women and I'm having a hard time keeping up. It might be easier to do if I did a podcast/vlog and didn't have to worry about writing everything out, finding videos, pictures, etc. but still...they watch and discuss all of the disciplines for nearly every competition, not to mention all of the videos about news/gossip/etc. I couldn't do that and still manage to have a life.

I do think they need to work on staying on topic and cutting down the length of their videos which seem to get longer and longer and longer...or at least doing what the merciful viewers do down in the comments and provide a time link to different parts of the discussion. I've said it before and I'll say it again, God bless those people.

 

[Miki89]

I might be in the minority but I didn't much care for Jenny Kirk as a host. Despite being a former skater, she didn't seem to have that much to offer in terms of technical or artistic knowledge. She liked skaters whose styles were similar to hers. I much prefer Jonathan Beyer who can offer an artistic perspective, despite not being a skating expert or insider. I actually really liked one of the past guest hosts (Emily Tuttle) who worked as a skating choreographer. She provided many interesting insights; it would be great for them to invite her back on the show.

 

[LKR]

Emily was great and very knowledgeable. I would gladly listen to her again.

 

[Bellanca]

Despite the scathing reviews and sometimes ott hostility, I think the majority might miss TSL a little bit if they scooped up all their marbles, went home and called it a day based solely on the fact they seem to be everyone's "favorite" whipping post. Somebody’s gotta do it, right? Then again, out in the not so far distance, I hear the fervent chiseling and maniacal laughter of posters zealously chipping away at RIP tombstones.

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0WT_5WPaM

Recapping the Russian test skates

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Despite the scathing reviews and sometimes ott hostility, I think the majority might miss TSL a little bit if they scooped up all their marbles, went home and called it a day based solely on the fact they seem to be everyone's "favorite" whipping post. Somebody’s gotta do it, right? Then again, out in the not so far distance, I hear the fervent chiseling and maniacal laughter of posters zealously chipping away at RIP tombstones.

It's like having that one acquaintance who will criticise you to your face, and think nothing of hurting your feelings doing it.

 

[Frau Muller]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0WT_5WPaM

Recapping the Russian test skates

...AND the last JGP (Kaunas), including Trusova’s historic performance. Coach Doug H is the guest commentator.
Kudos to the TSL team for truly keeping up with the sport’s happenings, week after week. I hope that they can keep it up, as we move into the Sr Challengers taking place concurrently with Jr GP. If any video bloggers can do it, they can!

 

[Deleted member 53443]

I really disagree with them on all the negativity on Trusova. "No musicality blabla"...I see some artistic fire in this girl, but just because she doesn't do the usual slow poetic moves they seem blinded.

 

[oleada]

I really disagree with them on all the negativity on Trusova. "No musicality blabla"...I see some artistic fire in this girl, but just because she doesn't do the usual slow poetic moves they seem blinded.

TSL is very set in their ways when it comes to artistry for female skaters and never approves of a skater who doesn’t fit the pretty ice princess mode

 

[Deleted member 53443]

TSL is very set in their ways when it comes to artistry for female skaters and never approves of a skater who doesn’t fit the pretty ice princess mode

I agree. Like when in the last episode, who was it...this young Korean skater who skated to West Side Story where Dave complained that she skated to the "manly" music and not to the prettier parts. Why can't a young girl skate to more masculine music I was thinking right away.

That said, I'm a big on being able to like people with different opinions, and so I'm a big fan of the show even if I disagree with things they say from time to time.

 

[Frau Muller]

I really disagree with them on all the negativity on Trusova. "No musicality blabla"...I see some artistic fire in this girl, but just because she doesn't do the usual slow poetic moves they seem blinded.

TSL was mostly positive on her. I found Jonathan’s observation about feeling sadness with Trusova telling. Also, TSL is 100% spot-on about Tuk’s masculine aesthetic. Thank gawd someone has the guts to point it out...but I can see how this can tick-off the lets-be-PC crowd (many - not all - FSUers).

 

[Icetigger]

I agree; but I think that there is something fundamentally misogynistic about the Skating Lesson. The way they discuss women's skating in comparison to men's, and discuss women in comparison to men is obviously different and much more objectifying and insistent upon them confirming to an external ideal. The discussions of body by Douglas Haw (in particular discussing perfect bodies in relation to Yuna Kim and Avonley Nguyen- a fifteen year old) and the previous discussions of Sataoko with Tom Dickson where she is being praised as a good girl who does what she is told by three much older men were really creepy.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

TSL was mostly positive on her. I found Jonathan’s observation about feeling sadness with Trusova telling. Also, TSL is 100% spot-on about Tuk’s masculine aesthetic. Thank gawd someone has the guts to point it out...but I can see how this can tick-off the lets-be-PC crowd (FSUers).

I'm not PC, I'm saying what I think, as do you, stop descending to labeling me. So tired of that nonsense. We disagree, fine, but not because PC this and PC that.

Personally, I laughed during the whole "sadness" part by Jonathan. I've seen it so many times, talented kids being pushed to their limits and therefore achieving something have the whole losing crowd feeling sad for them. Bohoo.

 

[soogar]

I agree; but I think that there is something fundamentally misogynistic about the Skating Lesson. The way they discuss women's skating in comparison to men's, and discuss women in comparison to men is obviously different and much more objectifying and insistent upon them confirming to an external ideal. The discussions of body by Douglas Haw (in particular discussing perfect bodies in relation to Yuna Kim and Avonley Nguyen- a fifteen year old) and the previous discussions of Sataoko with Tom Dickson where she is being praised as a good girl who does what she is told by three much older men were really creepy.

I feel like skating has a very skewed version of what a perfect body is. Maybe they think that a straight up and down body like YuNa Kim's is ideal, but what if there were adequate racial representation and there are a lot of skaters with bodies like Simone Biles competing. I really don't think a thin body would hold to the power a stockier, smaller athlete could generate. The best jumpers in ladies skating were small stocky ladies- Midori Ito and Tonya Harding.

 

[oleada]

Gotta say that Doug’s comment that Tuk should lose 10lbs is completely No wonder this sport has so many issues with body image and eating disorder. Tuk looks awesome!

Tuk will never look like Yuna Kim and that’s totally fine. It’s who she is. She’s powerful and looks great. Different body types should be embraced.

 

[Bellanca]

TSL is very set in their ways when it comes to artistry for female skaters and never approves of a skater who doesn’t fit the pretty ice princess mode

Except when it came to GG. They advised that she darken her hair, put on a catsuit and bring out her best b!tch face.

I recall their thinking at the time was that Gracie was forcing too much of a Frank Carroll preferred Carol Heiss Jenkins pretty ice princess vibe and that it was too insincere, in their opinion, for GG’s skating style and personality, etc., etc. So, there’s that.

ETA: Gracie could genuinely pull off pretty ice princess, but they did not think so. For the record, I feel like Gracie is/was capable of pulling off either style, myself.

 

[oleada]

Except when it came to GG. They advised that she darken her hair, put on a catsuit and bring out her best b!tch face.

I recall their thinking at the time was that Gracie was forcing too much of a Frank Carroll preferred Carol Heiss Jenkins pretty ice princess vibe and that it was too insincere, in their opinion, for GG’s skating style and personality, etc., etc. So, there’s that.

ETA: Gracie could genuinely pull off pretty ice princess, but they did not think so. For the record, I feel like Gracie is/was capable of pulling off either style, myself.

But isn’t that just a different coin of the same super femme presentation? Either be a bitch or be a princess; Madonna/whore crap. There is so much more women (and female skaters) could be. It’s fine to be princessy and girly and bitchy but it shouldn’t be the ONLY way that women are allowed to be.

I know that while I was watching US Nationals - and I am picking US nats because they were particularly bad at this - I got so sick of watching one princessy program after another. All skaters were shoved into the same box regardless of whether it suited them or not. The expectation from the PTB shouldn’t be that all skaters will be like Sasha Cohen or Michelle Kwan or whatever.

I mean, if they say that Kaetlyn, who is gorgeous and fit and wonderfully talented, is a linebacker

 

[Frau Muller]

But isn’t that just a different coin of the same super femme presentation? Either be a bitch or be a princess; Madonna/whore crap. There is so much more women (and female skaters) could be. It’s fine to be princessy and girly and bitchy but it shouldn’t be the ONLY way that women are allowed to be.

I know that while I was watching US Nationals - and I am picking US nats because they were particularly bad at this - I got so sick of watching one princessy program after another. All skaters were shoved into the same box regardless of whether it suited them or not. The expectation from the PTB shouldn’t be that all skaters will be like Sasha Cohen or Michelle Kwan or whatever.

I mean, if they say that Kaetlyn, who is gorgeous and fit and wonderfully talented, is a linebacker

Trusova is neither one. That’s part of what makes her so refreshing, IMO.

 

[Frau Muller]

I'm not PC, I'm saying what I think, as do you, stop descending to labeling me. So tired of that nonsense. We disagree, fine, but not because PC this and PC that.

Personally, I laughed during the whole "sadness" part by Jonathan. I've seen it so many times, talented kids being pushed to their limits and therefore achieving something have the whole losing crowd feeling sad for them. Bohoo.

I should’ve put space between my Trusova & Tuk comments. I didn’t mean to imply that you are in the PC crew.

 

[Willin]

TBH I agree that Trusova isn't artistic. But what skater her age is? I won't hold it against a junior skater if they're not as good artistically as someone like Carolina.
I also feel like IJS discourages a lot of artistry or traditional performances that we saw under 6.0, so these skaters aren't learning to perform or being choreographed in the same way that us somewhat older skaters were. TBH I prefer the older version, but we shouldn't hold that change against the newer skaters.

Gotta say that Doug’s comment that Tuk should lose 10lbs is completely No wonder this sport has so many issues with body image and eating disorder. Tuk looks awesome!

Tuk will never look like Yuna Kim and that’s totally fine. It’s who she is. She’s powerful and looks great. Different body types should be embraced.

Has he seen Tuk's instagrams? Girl's body is smokin'!
The only concern I have with skaters weights is if they're too heavy to do the jumps. Obviously if Tuk's throwing that gorgeous 3A and 3Lz out there like it's a double she's having no such problems. Why should anyone care about her weight when she's doing that?

 

[Bellanca]

But isn’t that just a different coin of the same super femme presentation? Either be a bitch or be a princess

To clarify, I’m not comfortable suggesting GG or her rivals/teammates are literally in b!tch face or princess mode on the ice or in their daily lives, unless they’re prone to that behavior, I suppose, but most of us genuinely do not know. I believe those words, b!tch face, and ice princess have been adopted for use in figure skating and ice dance to describe a particular skating style and not the actual person or their common characteristics.

However, some folks get so caught up in their fandom that they do label and describe a skater(s) as being a b!tch face or a princess which is a juvenile and immature reaction to have, imo. It’s also very disconcerting because, once again, most people reacting this way usually do not personally know the skater(s) that they’ve labeled in such a manner.

For my part, I feel that GG can pull off artistic and athletic programs/choreography, or a combination of both, which is how I prefer to describe it, instead of saying b!tch face or princess, but since we have been posting about TSL and their thoughts and verbiage…