Two Chinese judges from the 2018 Olympics are suspended by the ISU

[Sylvia]

Starting a new thread from @clairecloutier's post in the "China's 2018 figure skating events will be moved" thread:

The ISU today published their decision about the 2 Chinese judges from the Olympic Games who were being investigated.

--Mr. Feng HUANG, who judged the pairs event in Pyeongchang, was suspended for 1 year (from the date of the decision)
https://www.isu.org/communications/17360-isu-communication-2173/file

Full decision (17 pages): https://www.isu.org/communications/17359-case-2018-02-isu-vs-huang/file

--Ms. Weiguang CHEN, who judged the mens event in Pyeongchang, is suspended for 2 years (from date of decision), and is also prohibited from judging at the 2022 Beijing Olympics
https://www.isu.org/communications/17362-isu-communication-2174/file[/QUOTE]
Full decision (17 pages): https://www.isu.org/communications/17361-case-2018-06-isu-vs-chen/file

 

[hanca]

Well, that may explain why China cancellled the skating events. They must be pretty angry if this is the reason, and decided to show that they stand behind their judges.

 

[MAXSwagg]

^Espwxiallu since US judge Lorrie Parker was never under any inquiry did her equally biased marks. Good for Chinese fed!

 

[nimi]

p. 13 of the document: the ISU Official Assessment Commission finds the Alleged Offender scored Jin higher in SKATING SKILLS than Patrick Chan!

Moral of the story: if when you're going to overscore "your" skater, please be slightly smarter/subtler about it than Ms. Chen was.

 

[meggonzo]

The scoring in the men's event is pretty blatant. However, the pairs' event doesn't seem that out of line; and if that's cause for suspension, then I think other judges need to be scrutinized as well.

 

[Willin]

@MAXSwagg I think @nimi has the key here to why Lorrie Parker wasn't suspended. While she showed bias, it wasn't as blatant as the bias shown by the Chinese judge in the men's event.

ETA: Also reading the official reports it makes the scheme seem much more blatant than was apparent by numbers alone. Ie. the pair's judge gave every element in S/H's SP & FS a +3 (which his peers agreed was reasonable) but marked Savchenko/Massot's GOE much lower (which his peers thought was unreasonable). A similar pattern is seen in the PCS scoring - with S/H getting very high marks and S/M getting unreasonably low marks. This resulted in him being the only judge to place S/H in first.
It appears they relied heavily on the opinions of the rest of the judging panel from the event to review his marks. Those judges apparently all agreed that his marks were unreasonable and showed bias - so this isn't one judge or one committee or one country complaining.

In the men's event they went element-by-element and bullet-by-bullet and noted that the judge was obviously awarding bullet points for features that were not present. Similar to the pairs, they also consulted the rest of the judging panel to determine whether or not the scores were in line with the rules - which they were not. They also compared her PCS to the average of the panel (I'd assume using statistics as well) and found that she gave PCS marks a full point higher than the average of the panel. In the SP at least all her PCS scores (9.25/9.50) were higher than any other judge's highest single PCS mark (9.00) for Jin.

 

[aftershocks]

p. 13 of the document: the ISU Official Assessment Commission finds the Alleged Offender scored Jin higher in SKATING SKILLS than Patrick Chan!

Moral of the story: if when you're going to overscore "your" skater, please be slightly smarter/subtler about it than Ms. Chen was.

Color me shocked, absolutely shocked at these findings! Perhaps they should have waited until Beijing before being so blatant, or mayhap they were just 'practicing' in readiness for Beijing 2022.

Now, the question is whether or not the suspensions will serve as an effective deterrent for the ongoing continuation of scoring abuses by judges of all affiliations down the road. I think not, sadly.

 

[Vagabond]

@MAXSwagg I think @nimi has the key here to why Lorrie Parker wasn't suspended. While she showed bias, it wasn't as blatant as the bias shown by the Chinese judge in the men's event.

Bias, like humor, is best at its most subtle.

 

[MAXSwagg]

@MAXSwagg I think @nimi has the key here to why Lorrie Parker wasn't suspended. While she showed bias, it wasn't as blatant as the bias shown by the Chinese judge in the men's event.

Placing the double Olympic Champion 5th in the free skate is not blatant? In what world?! Also, she has a history. She did the same thing at 2017 Four Continents.

 

[Willin]

@MAXSwagg I'm not saying she isn't biased, in fact I'm willing to say she is based on how much favor she gave to the US men. What I am saying is that she wasn't dumb enough to simultaneously boost her skater's score while tanking the scores of their biggest competition.

 

[MAXSwagg]

@MAXSwagg I'm not saying she isn't biased, in fact I'm willing to say she is based on how much favor she gave to the US men. What I am saying is that she wasn't dumb enough to simultaneously boost her skater's score while tanking the scores of their biggest competition.

...but she did.

 

[Jayar]

...but she did.

Compelling argument.

 

[VGThuy]

This is ridiculous. I actually respect the judges who didn't bother to hide their bias. At least they're being honest. The ISU is only punishing "blatant" examples but really, every fan who has been keeping track of scores from individual judges can call out names and feds who are NOTORIOUS for playing these games and undermining the whole process. This is just a stupid reactionary band-aid to make it look like they are taking judging integrity seriously when all they want is to not be caught and let the same crap happen over and over again. I mean Sharon Rogers has not been disciplined and no matter how much of a fan you are of the American ice dancers, her scores were a JOKE.

 

[jiejie]

Chinese judges are being singled out by the ISU for one major reason: China is the host of the next Winter Olympics. It is a starting point. There may be more shoes yet to drop, involving other judges from other nations. We shall see.

 

[hanca]

Chinese judges are being singled out by the ISU for one major reason: China is the host of the next Winter Olympics. It is a starting point. There may be more shoes yet to drop, involving other judges from other nations. We shall see.

So as long as you don’t host the olympics, you are free to cheat?

 

[MAXSwagg]

Pretty much the people are defending the likes of Sharon Rogers and Lorrie Parker by saying "Their cheating was not as blatant, so it is fine." Let's also not mention the shady antics of Canadian judges in the recent and not-so-recent past. Yet it seems only Russians and non-Western officials get investigated and sanctioned...

 

[love_skate2011]

lol, out of all the disciplines...

and now we know why China refused to host any ISU event for this season in a retaliation. China is such an easy picking by ISU, they need to be more political even hosting next Winter Olympics isn't helping them.

 

[Inessence]

Good thing the new scoring system helps to resolve this issue. Oh.

 

[Habs]

What makes this so silly is the pairs judge didn't have to cheat. Sui & Han were wonderful.

 

[libecha]

While I agree that China was singled out here for things others were doing, how dumb do you have to be to be warned for overscoring your country's skaters and underscoring their most direct threat at the GPF, and then do the exact same thing 8 weeks later? Huang knew he was on notice, had to know that they were going to be reviewing his marks of Savchenko/Massot with a fine-toothed comb, and then proceeded to underscore them again! The suspension is deserved for sheer stupidity if nothing else.

 

[Willin]

...but she did.

Pretty much the people are defending the likes of Sharon Rogers and Lorrie Parker by saying "Their cheating was not as blatant, so it is fine." Let's also not mention the shady antics of Canadian judges in the recent and not-so-recent past. Yet it seems only Russians and non-Western officials get investigated and sanctioned...

No one ever said it was fine, just that the ISU won't punish them unless it's blatant.

And no she didn't. If you look at the numbers she was supporting US skaters but not tanking the other skaters any more than the judges from the other countries were.
If you look at the report, it also should be noted that the marks the Chinese judges gave (the tanking ones and the bullet points) cannot be justified by any single other judge. I'd bet the US judge could find other judges to back them up on those marks fairly or otherwise.

What makes this so silly is the pairs judge didn't have to cheat. Sui & Han were wonderful.

Yeah! It's almost insulting to them especially because they could've easily won if S/M didn't have such a spectacular FS that night.

 

[Vagabond]

and now we know why China refused to host any ISU event for this season in a retaliation.

We do?

It's more cutting off one's nose to spite one's face than it is retaliation.

At a minimum, China is foregoing a slew of host spots at its JGP and GP events. I can't think of any meaningful longterm harm this move is likely to cause to the ISU.

 

[MAXSwagg]

No one ever said it was fine, just that the ISU won't punish them unless it's blatant.

And no she didn't. If you look at the numbers she was supporting US skaters but not tanking the other skaters any more than the judges from the other countries were.
If you look at the report, it also should be noted that the marks the Chinese judges gave (the tanking ones and the bullet points) cannot be justified by any single other judge. I'd bet the US judge could find other judges to back them up on those marks fairly or otherwise.



Yeah! It's almost insulting to them especially because they could've easily won if S/M didn't have such a spectacular FS that night.

Having the unabashed gall to place the double-Olympic Champion fifth in the free skate by a significant margin (more egregious departure than Huang's marks in the pairs event) is not "tanking the other skaters?!" The game she was playing and has played before is very much blatant.

 

[Willin]

@MAXSwagg So do you think she's dirtier than other judges or are you just mad because Hanyu? Sheer nembers and total scores don't tell the story. Read the report and you'll see why she didn't get punished.

 

[MAXSwagg]

@MAXSwagg So do you think she's dirtier than other judges or are you just mad because Hanyu? Sheer nembers and total scores don't tell the story. Read the report and you'll see why she didn't get punished.

I said her marks are at least as egregious, but was not even inquired. Why would I be mad? He won, so her little games didn't work, unfortunately for her.

So you agree with her marks in the free skating? There's three options:

1) You agree/she didn't cheat
2) She cheated
3) She's incompetent

(though it is possible for her to be 2 and 3)

 

[Vagabond]

So you agree with her marks in the free skating?

What has agreeing with her marks got to do with the matter at hand?

The question is whether she should be subject to ISU discipline, and not even you have made a convincing argument why she should be.

 

[NinjaTurtles]

Looking really quickly, and just to add fuel to the fire , both Parker and Chen scored her countryman (Nathen Chen and Boyang Jin, respectively) two standard deviations above the mean for PCS in the FS.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

The scoring in the men's event is pretty blatant. However, the pairs' event doesn't seem that out of line; and if that's cause for suspension, then I think other judges need to be scrutinized as well.

That was my thought as well...

 

[MAXSwagg]

What has agreeing with her marks got to do with the matter at hand?

The question is whether she should be subject to ISU discipline, and not even you have made a convincing argument why she should be.

If the Chinese judge in pairs was suspended for 1) a history of suspect marking, and 2) suspect marking during the Games, Lorrie Parker should be suspended as well because she is also guilty of 1 and 2, and as one can see from the protocols, her marks are even more egregious. It seems to me people are defending her have also not given a convincing argument as to why she should not be disciplined. Is it because the other judge is Asian?? Is it because she is American?? If she were a judge from a different country and her marks were against an American skater, people would be up in arms!

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Pretty much the people are defending the likes of Sharon Rogers and Lorrie Parker by saying "Their cheating was not as blatant, so it is fine." Let's also not mention the shady antics of Canadian judges in the recent and not-so-recent past. Yet it seems only Russians and non-Western officials get investigated and sanctioned...

Blablabla...