Papadakis/Cizeron #6 - Season's Over - Let's Get Drunk!

[Deleted member 74551]

Has that rule changed? Ben Agosto has technical training, but he commentates?

I have absolutely no idea, the comment just stuck out to me. He might’ve been misinformed I guess?

 

[cholla]

He might’ve been misinformed I guess?

Yes, I bet he was. How can you deny commentators technical training when some of them are former skaters who de facto have it ? ISU might not want to take care of commentators training, but that's another matter. Frankly I know a few commentators who'd need some thorough technical training. They actually needed it for the past 25 years or more...

 

[maya1985]

interview and photos

 

[Anyasnake]

interview and photos

Florentina Tone's interviews are the best, I always look foward to reading them !

 

[muffinplus]

I'm glad they picked Moonlight Sonata over Claire De Lune... I'm still rewatching the Worlds performance every day, it's like therapy after a tiring day. It's odd but I found the Olys performance to be flat, and I love the Worlds one, perhaps, because, it's like they said, they skated it like an exhibition, I don't know?

OTOH, I still really don't like Ed Sheeran program. I enjoy last year's SD way way more (the Midnight Blues), although it's obviously not the same rhythm and was not considered a strong SD for some reason? (because it wasn't performed perfectly?)

 

[cocotaffy]

I'm glad they picked Moonlight Sonata over Claire De Lune... I'm still rewatching the Worlds performance every day, it's like therapy after a tiring day. It's odd but I found the Olys performance to be flat, and I love the Worlds one, perhaps, because, it's like they said, they skated it like an exhibition, I don't know?

It's not odd, I too prefer their performance at Worlds and my explanation is that if you look at Guillaume, he's way more into it, literally all the way to his finger tips, than at the Olys. He added couple of movements especially in the spin combo where he violently stands up which adds texture to the whole thing. He's never done the head thing so spot on and with such amplitude either during the rotational lift. In short, he was emoting much more than he had whole season long during which Gabby was the one carrying this FD emotionally imo. Now both of them at the height of their emoting, you bet it gives a sensational result.
The SD though, I think the best version was at GPF where their energy was top notch and everything so crisp. But the Milan one was not bad either. However the one I rewatch the most to my own surprise is the Dancing on Ice one, they looked so happy and the camera work is great being constantly zooming in, plus the color theme matched their performance so well.

 

[Twilight1]

The pressure cooker was done and P&C could just enjoy the last competition for this program. I thought both the SD and the FD were so fluid and presented to their full potential. Thrilling to see them forever in the record books with those performance scores.

 

[VikiLeeks]

Hello! I see you are discussing music for the next season. I like this tango piece, it's so beautiful and passionate. But I don't know how often it was used in figure skating before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi2t5AmAutg

 

[Anyasnake]

Hello! I see you are discussing music for the next season. I like this tango piece, it's so beautiful and passionate. But I don't know how often it was used in figure skating before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi2t5AmAutg

Hi VikiLeeks ! Welcome to FSU
I think I've heard it several times, I cannot say exactly who skated to it, but it remind me of someone

 

[sap5]

Hi VikiLeeks ! Welcome to FSU
I think I've heard it several times, I cannot say exactly who skated to it, but it remind me of someone

It has been used many times in figure skating. Karen Chen skated to it recently, as did Lubov/Dylan, but I can't remember an ice dance team using it recently....

 

[nuge]

It has been used many times in figure skating. Karen Chen skated to it recently, as did Lubov/Dylan, but I can't remember an ice dance team using it recently....

Kokhlova/Novitsky used it for their 2007 OD.

 

[ewig_fliegende]

I agree 100% with your statement. I would simply highlight the key contribution of Jeffrey Cirio who actually gave so many great advices and ideas to fine tune and enhance significantly the FD choreography. As you pointed out, Gaby and Guillaume were able to sublime the whole thing of course.

As far as I understand, Cirio was mainly in charge of hands and upper body movements while steps, lifts were not his responsibility (correct me if I’m wrong!). And yes, he did his part of the job brilliantly.

So did Mr. Dean, who created a great SD where G&G looked young, light and fresh, enjoying the dance and each other without overperforming, overemoting, overmiming and other overs. I’m not a fan of Sheeran’s music but that’s another
story – the dance itself was great.

 

[ewig_fliegende]

interview and photos

Thank you for the link. I agree, it’s always a pleasure to read Florentina’s interviews with G&G – besides being a talented interviewer, she always writes about them with such warmth, love and admiration.

So, Mr. Dean not only choreographed a great SD but also boosted their confidence and made them believe in themselves. Since G&G apparently enjoyed working with him, I hope for many more collaborations in the future. I’ve got an impression that Chris sees their huge potential, genuinely supports them and even has an affection for them (maybe it’s an exaggeration but still).

 

[Twilight1]

The wild thing about Christopher Dean is he either spins brilliance or sometimes a dud. I know some liked his Heart Attack program for B&K in 1999 but I really didn't like that program. This OD program though was great!! Really showed off their skills.

 

[DimaToe]

IMO as long as P/C go with their creativity instead of going with what others want them to do the fans will continue to be. over their programs. I think a tango from them would be but I would still be happy with whatever they give us as long as they go with what they want.

 

[Judy]

The wild thing about Christopher Dean is he either spins brilliance or sometimes a dud. I know some liked his Heart Attack program for B&K in 1999 but I really didn't like that program. This OD program though was great!! Really showed off their skills.

Yes same here. I had forgotten about that. I’ll have to go back and watch that OD.

 

[Judy]

It’s crazy how different ice dancing was back then!

 

[Twilight1]

I still love to watch certain programs from the 90's (G&P- 92 fd, 97 od/fd, K&P 92 fd, U&Z almost anything, B&K '95 od/fd, '97 fd, '98 fd, '99 od)

But the programs seem so much better composed today imho.

 

[Judy]

I still love to watch certain programs from the 90's (G&P- 92 fd, 97 od/fd, K&P 92 fd, U&Z almost anything, B&K '95 od/fd, '97 fd, '98 fd, '99 od)

But the programs seem so much better composed today imho.

See I have a different impression. I find that the lifts they are allowed to do make it so exciting.

 

[cocotaffy]

I still love to watch certain programs from the 90's (G&P- 92 fd, 97 od/fd, K&P 92 fd, U&Z almost anything, B&K '95 od/fd, '97 fd, '98 fd, '99 od)

But the programs seem so much better composed today imho.

Personally what I like is FDs were not constricted by elements. It gives those programs such a sense of freedom instead of waiting for the inevitable twizzles and count the lifts or try to spot if they're doing a midline, a circular or a diagonal step sequence. I would have loved to see Gaby and Guillaume skate an FD with so much freedom allowed.

On the news front, Gabriella is back in Montreal per her IS. I wonder if it's brainstorming time for next season. Meanwhile Guillaume is MIA from social media, he's really more secretive.

 

[Judy]

Yes there certainly was that for sure. I still miss the OD.

 

[Anyasnake]

http://fs-theice.com/cast-list/the-ice
They will participate THE ICE show 2018 in Japan. I don't know the exact dates yet though but it's late July/early August in Osaka and Nagoya

 

[alain06fr]

But that’s my point. What difference does it truly make? I actually think that it is good to have a judge as head of Skate Canada. So if it wasn’t her it would be another Cdn judge. Same result.

The head of the Canadian fed's focuses 100% on Canadian skaters. Her target/goal is to promote and push them as most as possible (to not say at any cost...) because any Canadian figure skating success is a benefit and promotion FOR HER as head of the Canadian fed. BTW, it's not a criticism, it's a fact. All federation presidents behave the same. It's actually their job to get the maximum of medals and good results.

The goal of a scoring judge is to evaluate the technical and artistic performance of ALL competitors, whatever country they skate for, based on the delivered performances.

Acting as scoring judge while being head of a federation is therefore an obvious and terrible conflict of interest. If the ISU wants to clean up things, they know what they have to do!
FYI, here is how Sam Auxier, 31st president of the US Figure Skating federation, handled it instead: "ISU rules allow federation leadership to judge events... However, to avoid any conflict of interest, Sam Auxier voluntarily removed himself from consideration to judge 4CC, Worlds, Olympics, and Nationals during his tenure"
We still wait for Leana Caron to follow this exemple!!

As for saying the result would be the same with another Canadian judge, it's not nice for all the Canadian judges who award scores in conscious and not according to their personal interests and benefits. I can give you one example: Jean Senft. Well, she had to struggle against dirty games in figure skating! She even wrote a book about it. Compared to what Caron did, be sure Jean Senft would have scored P/C and V/M performances differently at Olys.

 

[Icetigger]

The head of the Canadian fed's focuses 100% on Canadian skaters. Her target/goal is to promote and push them as most as possible (to not say at any cost...) because any Canadian figure skating success is a benefit and promotion FOR HER as head of the Canadian fed. BTW, it's not a criticism, it's a fact. All federation presidents behave the same. It's actually their job to get the maximum of medals and good results.

The goal of a scoring judge is to evaluate the technical and artistic performance of ALL competitors.

Acting as scoring judge while being head of a federation is therefore such an obvious conflict of interest (another one...). If the ISU wants to clean up things, they know what they have to do!
FYI, here is how Sam Auxier, 31st president of the US Figure Skating federation, handled it instead: "ISU rules allow federation leadership to judge events... However, to avoid any conflict of interest, Sam Auxier voluntarily removed himself from consideration to judge" 4CC, Worlds, Olympics, and Nationals during his tenure"
We still wait for Leana Caron to follow this exemple!!

As for saying the result would be the same with another Canadian judge is not really nice for all the Canadian judges who award scores to competitors based on the delivered performances and not according to the personal interest and benefit they can get from it. I can give you one example: Jean Senft. Well, she had to struggle against dirty games in figure skating! She even wrote a book about it. Compared to what Caron did, be sure Jean Senft would have scored P/C and V/M performances differently at Olys.

Also, the way to significantly influence the result as a partisan judge is to give not a ridiculously low score, because it will just be dismissed: it is to give for each mark what one thinks the lowest other possible score will be among the other judges, so even if your scores are effectively dismissed, one other score equally low from another judge will stick. If one looks at Jean Senft's scores at Worlds one can definitely say that was not what she was doing. However, in terms of Leanna Caron's at the Os, one cannot say the same, it would just have to be an item of trust that that was not what she was doing, however, when she is operating both as an ISU judge and also the head of Skate Canada, I don't think that trust can be assumed. Buzzfeed did an analysis on what difference another judge marking in line with the majority of the judges would have made to the score and the overall results, and it- according to their conclusions- would have made a difference.

 

[alain06fr]

Also, the way to significantly influence the result as a partisan judge is to give not a ridiculously low score, because it will just be dismissed: it is to give for each mark what one thinks the lowest other possible score will be among the other judges, so even if your scores are effectively dismissed, one other score equally low from another judge will stick. If one looks at Jean Senft's scores at Worlds one can definitely say that was not what she was doing. However, in terms of Leanna Caron's at the Os, one cannot say the same, it would just have to be an item of trust that that was not what she was doing, however, when she is operating both as an ISU judge and also the head of Skate Canada, I don't think that trust can be assumed. Buzzfeed did an analysis on what difference another judge marking in line with the majority of the judges would have made to the score and the overall results, and it- according to their conclusions- would have made a difference.

True!
Buzzfeed simulated various compositions of the FD scoring judges panel at Olys.
The only scenario where V/M are first overall is when Caron is one of these scoring judges.

For all other scenarios, P/C are first overall. BTW, I remember one basic scenario where Caron is replaced by a judge scoring P/C and V/M performances in the corridor of average marks...

 

[alain06fr]

On the news front, Gabriella is back in Montreal per her IS. I wonder if it's brainstorming time for next season. Meanwhile Guillaume is MIA from social media, he's really more secretive.

Hello Cocotaffy, hope you're fine.
You're right. Gaby is in Montréal. So is Guillaume. And yes, Guillaume is discreet and exposes less his privacy (let's say, less than what he used to do in the past).

So nice to exchange on a forum where freedom of speech and debates are great

 

[Anyasnake]

Hello Cocotaffy, hope you're fine.
You're right. Gaby is in Montréal. So is Guillaume. And yes, Guillaume is discreet and exposes less his privacy (let's say, less than what he used to do in the past).

So nice to exchange on a forum where freedom of speech and debates are great

I wonder which other forum you're referring too...
Do you know if they are training perhaps, if they started learning new things ? Or are they still enjoying a break ? Going back on the ice after this season must be challenging...

 

[barbarafan]

The head of the Canadian fed's focuses 100% on Canadian skaters. Her target/goal is to promote and push them as most as possible (to not say at any cost...) because any Canadian figure skating success is a benefit and promotion FOR HER as head of the Canadian fed. BTW, it's not a criticism, it's a fact. All federation presidents behave the same. It's actually their job to get the maximum of medals and good results.

The goal of a scoring judge is to evaluate the technical and artistic performance of ALL competitors, whatever country they skate for, based on the delivered performances.

Acting as scoring judge while being head of a federation is therefore an obvious and terrible conflict of interest. If the ISU wants to clean up things, they know what they have to do!
FYI, here is how Sam Auxier, 31st president of the US Figure Skating federation, handled it instead: "ISU rules allow federation leadership to judge events... However, to avoid any conflict of interest, Sam Auxier voluntarily removed himself from consideration to judge 4CC, Worlds, Olympics, and Nationals during his tenure"
We still wait for Leana Caron to follow this exemple!!

As for saying the result would be the same with another Canadian judge, it's not nice for all the Canadian judges who award scores in conscious and not according to their personal interests and benefits. I can give you one example: Jean Senft. Well, she had to struggle against dirty games in figure skating! She even wrote a book about it. Compared to what Caron did, be sure Jean Senft would have scored P/C and V/M performances differently at Olys.

Leona Caron scored them higher because they skated better period. She marked them based on what they put on the ice not on if it was their favourite music piece. Christine Hurst in the short program marked V/M the lowest than the other judges. The judges all went very easy on Gabby/Guillaume in the short as they knew they would have skated much better if they had not had the costume malfunction. The Cdn international judges are very fair...I am always checking the protocols because I would rather not get medals at all if there is anything shady going on. The CDN domestic judges are another story... There seems to be a hive mentality connected with Skate Canada's favourites and wishes.

 

[RoseRed]

http://fs-theice.com/cast-list/the-ice
They will participate THE ICE show 2018 in Japan. I don't know the exact dates yet though but it's late July/early August in Osaka and Nagoya

It's July 28th-29th and August 4th-5th.

 

[maya1985]

Buzzfeed did an analysis on what difference another judge marking in line with the majority of the judges would have made to the score and the overall results, and it- according to their conclusions- would have made a difference.

Analysis
Analysis

The scores according to the President of Skate Canada:
V/M: 209.50 (85.10; 124.40)
P/C: 197.80 (78.70; 119.10)
The gap is small...