Papadakis/Cizeron #6 - Season's Over - Let's Get Drunk!

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I think it would be cool to see them do something like asian music like Theme from the Last Emporer (Jiang Xiao-Qing). Or maybe something a little weird like Sounds of the Sea (Joanna Brouk) or Ar inch lab er/Those were good times (Lévon Miniassin). Those would all play to their current floating style, but the music would be quite different from anything they've done. But I would like to see them to something even more different than their recent FDs next season and then maybe go to something like these a bit later.
 
Twilight1 said:
Allezfred they changed their post after I challenged it. Perhaps you missed that. ;)
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Perhaps if you actually quoted the words that offended your eyes, I wouldn't need to correct you for not understanding what the word "global" means. ;)
 
Anyasnake said:
I don't know if it's geoblocked for you but I discovered that song through this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-FFtXHudiM
This is French DWTS and the guy was by far the better contestant to ever come on the show. A rumba with this music, gosh... :encore:
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Loïc Nottet! :cheer2:I could picture G&G skating to his music, he has a very unique voice. His song "Wolves" would be great for them imo.
 
Miloune said:
Anyway, who cares who has more medals....
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Athletes. They usually care a lot about medals since it's (the most) important milestones in their career. Sponsors. They want their athletes seen on TV and in papers. Medalling is still the best way to make a breakthrough in mainstream media. And sponsors need bankable sponsorees. Federations. They invest on their skaters, the better their rank, the better for them. A common trait between athletes is the fighting spirit, and the love for competition. They are naturally driven to fight and improve. Being in a position where they become a medal contender is one of their main dreams and goals. Winning a medal is often the ultimate goal and achievement. So actually, if fans don't care, they might indeed be the only ones ;)

*sigh*. Such a fruitless argument.
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Really ? What do you think skaters and other sport people compete for if it's not for the win ? Or at least going as far up as they can ? It's a bit unrealistic to think it's just for the beauty of it, or/and entertaining the audience, or/and enjoying themselves only. Far too much is at stake. Athletes aren't all selflessness. They want a career and a successful one. Rightfully so. Medalling is the ultimate success.

-------

About an alleged break as some people discussed it here, in Milano, P/C talked about taking a "longer break" as in "longer vacations" because the season had been long and tough. They said so at the post FD press conferences, then again when I talked to them later, and I also discussed it with their coach the day before. AFAIK, they never talked about skipping competitions next year, just about taking some much needed time off, a bit more than usual to recover from the Olympic season. But it's possible some people misinterpreted the information.
 
cholla said:
Athletes. They usually care a lot about medals since it's (the most) important milestones in their career. Sponsors. They want their athletes seen on TV and in papers. Medalling is still the best way to make a breakthrough in mainstream media. And sponsors need bankable sponsorees. Federations. They invest on their skaters, the better their rank, the better for them. A common trait between athletes is the fighting spirit, and the love for competition. They are naturally driven to fight and improve. Being in a position where they become a medal contender is one of their main dreams and goals. Winning a medal is often the ultimate goal and achievement. So actually, if fans don't care, they might indeed be the only ones ;)

Really ? What do you think skaters and other sport people compete for if it's not for the win ? Or at least going as far up as they can ? It's a bit unrealistic to think it's just for the beauty of it, or/and entertaining the audience, or/and enjoying themselves only. Far too much is at stake. Athletes aren't all selflessness. They want a career and a successful one. Rightfully so. Medalling is the ultimate success.
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First, there is no need to cut my sentence in two like what I said was really offensive lol.
And second, my argument was in terms of breaking records. It's not always a very fair thing to compare, because winning medals depends on a lot of variables (that I explained further down the thread).
And just to be clear, of course medals are important. Otherwise why would we all be here debating and pulling our hair during championships? Duh.. :p
 
Peepsquick said:
I read an account (by Patrice Lauzon) of what actually happened two years ago. I am sorry but I can't recall where I read it. It starts right after Sochi, when V/M are unhappy with their training with Marina. He and MF had promised them that they could come and train at Gadbois to prepare for the next OG, should they choose to come back. They didn't have a clue at the time that Gabriella and Guillaume would come to Montreal and be propelled after just a year there to the top of Ice Dance. Patrice realized that they were in a bit of a pickle when V/M decided to go for it. He said that he was a man of his word and didn't want to renege on his promise. He concluded that the two years had been extremely stressful but that they did their best for both teams.
I believe him. It had to be an extremely uncomfortable situation with both feds watching them like hawks!
I also feel that they have true affection for G/G. They have the perfect structure and backbone to nurture and challenge their skaters. Choreography can always be imported from the outside, but frankly, MF's vision for P/C was spot on this first quad. I would trust her to listen to them but also steer them in interesting directions.
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I must admit I was surprised the first time I heard about this promise to V/M as Gadbois, at the time this promise was made, was very ... very far from being what it became AFTER G&G won their first World championships in March 2015. Additionnally, I would not make too much fuss about it given it was one promise among several ones made to various people.

I think the point is not really about having some affection for Gaby and Guillaume. I think anyone (coach or not coach) working or even just knowing them just fall in love with them because both are lovely people, really. One could see the press conferences in Milan and their tied friendship/connection with Madi, Zach, Kathlyn and Andrew. It's obvious they are appreciated by almost all ice dance teams because they are funny, modest, humble, nice, etc. Of course, Patrice and MFD have some affection for G&G. I even wrote it myself in another place but this is not really something to consider. This is not a fairy tale! G&G have (and must have) very high expectations. So does the French fed. And the coaches must be able to take up new challenges.

Gaby and Guillaume moved to Montréal to follow Romain but also to find in Gadbois a more appropriate setup for their career, being this time fully focused on ice dance (and not sharing their time between ice dance and studies like they used to do in Lyon).

The first two seasons were great but afterwards I feel like the general atmosphere changed. MFD almost disappeared from the K&C (with G&G) and declarations to the press were not great either. What a contrast with Brian Orser coaching both Hanyu and Javier!

If G&G decide to stay in Gadbois for the next Olympic cycle then time has come to put everything on the table to avoid (or at least try to avoid) bad surprises in 3 or 4 years. There are strong arguments in favour to stay in Montréal but G&G are not no name ice dancers. A new Olympic cycle is definitely the opportunity to consider different options and evaluate pros and cons.

At this point, staying in Gadbois is the most probable option but who knows? One of the key person in Gadbois for G&G is more likely Catherine Pinard. She brought a lot to them, really a lot, and she can bring even more in the future I guess.
 
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Miloune said:
First, there is no need to cut my sentence in two like what I said was really offensive lol.
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I cut your post to answer the two different sentences. I didn't find anything offensive at all in what you wrote. Even if I had, what does it have to do with separating sentences to reply ?

And second, my argument was in terms of breaking records. It's not always a very fair thing to compare, because winning medals depends on a lot of variables (that I explained further down the thread).
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True but it's also quite rare that medals are awarded to totally undeserving athletes. So, generally speaking, that's why athletes with a long history of medals are better considered than those who, for now, have won less. Since one of the couple we're talking about is now more or less (well, far more than less) retired and won't medal anymore when the other one has still plenty of time to collect more gold, it's not yet time for a fair comparison anyway. As I read your original post, what I mainly saw was "who cares about medals" and actually a lot of people indeed do, so that's what I tried to explain. I haven't read the entire thread nor many posts before yours, sorry.

And just to be clear, of course medals are important. Otherwise why would we all be here debating and pulling our hair during championships? Duh.. :p
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Well, I'm not not pulling my hair during competition and I'm not often here. And I haven't been snarky nor unpleasant with you so I'm not sure I get where your stiff tone and sarcasm come from. I don't think we have interacted before. Isn' it possible to tell you something (on which it seems we in fact agree) without you jumping on your high horse ? "Sans dec'" :p
 
cholla said:
I cut your post to answer the two different sentences. I didn't find anything offensive at all in what you wrote. Even if I had, what does it have to do with separating sentences to reply ?

True but it's also quite rare that medals are awarded to totally undeserving athletes. So, generally speaking, that's why athletes with a long history of medals are better considered than those who, for now, have won less. Since one of the couple we're talking about is now more or less (well, far more than less) retired and won't medal anymore when the other one has still plenty of time to collect more gold, it's not yet time for a fair comparison anyway. As I read your original post, what I mainly saw was "who cares about medals" and actually a lot of people indeed do, so that's what I tried to explain. I haven't read the entire thread nor many posts before yours, sorry.

Well, I'm not not pulling my hair during competition and I'm not often here. And I haven't been snarky nor unpleasant with you so I'm not sure I get where your stiff tone and sarcasm come from. I don't think we have interacted before. Isn' it possible to tell you something (on which it seems we in fact agree) without you jumping on your high horse ? "Sans dec'" :p
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Well the sentence you quoted was really little so when I saw it cut in two parts I was like 'oh why so serious!!' lol
And I'm being snarky because you wrote 2 paragraphs explaining to me why medals are important when I never said they weren't.. I mean, yeah ok, sorry if I found it agressive! :)
It's just the eternal "who has more" argument that I find ridiculous... but I guess I'll just say that it's my opinion.
The "pulling our hair" part was in general on this forum, not with you btw (I don't know if that was clear)
 
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alain06fr said:
I think the point is not really about having some affection for Gaby and Guillaume. I think anyone (coach or not coach) working or even just knowing them just fall in love with them because both are lovely people, really. One could see the press conferences in Milan and their tied friendship/connection with Madi, Zach, Kathlyn and Andrew. It's obvious they are appreciated by almost all ice dance teams because they are funny, modest, humble, nice, etc. Of course, Patrice and MFD have some affection for G&G. I even wrote it myself in another place but this is not really something to consider. This is not a fairy tale! G&G have (and must have) very high expectations. So does the French fed. And the coaches must be able to take up new challenges.

I must admit I was surprised the first time I heard about this promise to V/M as Gadbois, at the time this promise was made, was very ... very far from being what it became AFTER G&G won their first World championships in March 2015. Additionnally, I would not make too much fuss about it given it was one promise among several ones made to various people.

Gaby and Guillaume moved to Montréal to follow Romain but also to find in Gadbois a more appropriate setup for their career, being this time fully focused on ice dance (and not sharing their time between ice dance and studies like they used to do in Lyon).

The first two seasons were great but afterwards I feel like the general atmosphere changed. MFD almost disappeared from the K&C (with G&G) and declarations to the press were not great either. What a contrast with Brian Orser coaching both Hanyu and Javier!

If G&G decide to stay in Gadbois for the next Olympic cycle then time has come to put everything on the table to avoid (or at least try to avoid) bad surprises in 3 or 4 years. There are strong arguments in favour to stay in Montréal but G&G are not no name ice dancers. A new Olympic cycle is definitely the opportunity to consider different options and evaluate pros and cons.

At this point, staying in Gadbois is the most probable option but who knows? One of the key person in Gadbois for G&G is more likely Catherine Pinard. She brought a lot to them, really a lot, and she can bring even more in the future I guess.
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Sounds to me that you are pushing for Gabby & Guillaume to leave Gadbois as for some reason you feel they could do better elsewhere. I find that really very strange. MFD looked very deep into GG to find the keys to their amazing artistry and pull it out and Patch piece by piece guided them to perfecting their technique as they do with all their teams. They are always collaborating with other choreas. to get the best result in both dance and pairs. Totally confused by the Kiss n Cry comments. How about the coaches at the boards? Is that not just as important or more NB to the skaters to focus the warmup...last words before competition. K&C is for backpatting and is not essential and I often see MFD in Kiss N Cry.As Romain is their main coach and that of several teams at Gadbois he normally goes into Kiss n Cry. Do you see GG leaving him as well. As far as the French Federation is concerned they seem to do more harm than good to some of their skaters. I certainly hope they do not push them to go elsewhere just because. I am sure they both need a huge rest before they attack next season as do their coaches. They are all dead and they will need to recharge before pressing restart and then letting the magic happen.
 
Miloune said:
Well the sentence you quoted was really little so when I saw her cut in two parts I was like 'oh why so serious!!' lol
And I'm being snarky because you wrote 2 big paragraphs explaining to me why medals are important when I never said they weren't.. I mean, yeah ok, sorry if I found it agressive! :)
It's just the eternal "who has more" argument that I find ridiculous... but I guess I'll just say that it's my opinion.
The "pulling our hair" part was in general on this forum, not with you btw (I don't know if that was clear)
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Although I am the person that posted the statistic that then got rowed about (and I stand by it, because it's correct- wikipedia will confirm that the numbers of gpf/ worlds and olympic wins detailed are right- whether another person sees that fact as important is of course another matter) I understand why you stepped in and said what you did and the good intent behind it.
 
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Icetigger said:
Although I am the person that posted the statistic that then got rowed about (and I stand by it, because it's correct) I understand why you stepped in and said what you did and the good intent behind it.
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It's correct based on your parameters... but makes no real world sense. Stand by it... more power to you. :lol:
 
barbarafan said:
Sounds to me that you are pushing for Gabby & Guillaume to leave Gadbois as for some reason you feel they could do better elsewhere. I find that really very strange. MFD looked very deep into GG to find the keys to their amazing artistry and pull it out and Patch piece by piece guided them to perfecting their technique as they do with all their teams. They are always collaborating with other choreas. to get the best result in both dance and pairs. Totally confused by the Kiss n Cry comments. How about the coaches at the boards? Is that not just as important or more NB to the skaters to focus the warmup...last words before competition. K&C is for backpatting and is not essential and I often see MFD in Kiss N Cry.As Romain is their main coach and that of several teams at Gadbois he normally goes into Kiss n Cry. Do you see GG leaving him as well. As far as the French Federation is concerned they seem to do more harm than good to some of their skaters. I certainly hope they do not push them to go elsewhere just because. I am sure they both need a huge rest before they attack next season as do their coaches. They are all dead and they will need to recharge before pressing restart and then letting the magic happen.
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I am certainly not pushing Gaby and Guillaume to leave Gadbois. They don't need me to take their own decisions anyway!

Now, when I read comments stating that they "have to" stay in Gadbois as if it was obvious, I just want to react and say "Guys, we are about to start a new olympic cycle and this is THE moment for Gaby and Guillaume (but it also applies to all ice dance teams) to review what happened the last seasons, set up their goals for the next 4 years and define what would be the best setup to achieve them". It's a perfectly healthy and expected reaction for two exceptional skaters.

I won't expand too much on the K&C. Each time G&G are about to perform a short or a free dance in an int'l competition, one can see their age, the music, their SB, the points to beat and ... the name of their two coaches. I just expect both coaches to be in the K&C. It's just the way I see it. Of course, you can think differently and it's perfectly fine. Once again, look to how Brian Orser behaves, he's to me - and by far - the best reference in terms of coaching two top level skaters. Listen to what he says, the way he behaves. Read his interviews and his declarations to all media and make comparisons...
 
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alain06fr said:
I am certainly not pushing Gaby and Guillaume to leave Gadbois. They don't need me to take their own decisions anyway!

Now, when I read comments stating that they "had to" stay in Gadbois as if it was obvious, I just wanted to react and say "Guys, we are about to start a new olympic cycle and this is THE moment for Gaby and Guillaume (but it also applies to all ice dance teams) to review what happened the last seasons, set up your goals for the next 4 years and define what would be the best setup to achieve them". It's a perfectly healthy and expected reaction for two exceptional skaters.

I won't expand too much on the K&C. Each time G&G are about to perform a short or a free dance in an int'l competition, one can see their age, the music, their SB, the points to beat and ... the name of their two coaches. I just expect both coaches to be in the K&C. It's just the way I see it. Of course, you can think differently and it's perfectly fine. Once again, look to how Brian Orser behaves, he's to me - and by far - the best reference in terms of coaching two top level skaters. Listen to what he says, the way he behaves. Read his interviews and his declarations to all media and make comparisons...
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Brian's mantra and Gadbois are basically the same...Everyone gets the best technical makeup that they can perform and as their training progresses it grows and grows. If both skate to their max and brilliantly it is a 100% tie. The rest is up to them.
 
barbarafan said:
Brian's mantra and Gadbois are basically the same...Everyone gets the best technical makeup that they can perform and as their training progresses it grows and grows. If both skate to their max and brilliantly it is a 100% tie. The rest is up to them.
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Can you define what you mean by "the rest"?
 
barbarafan said:
Brian's mantra and Gadbois are basically the same...
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Not sure what "basically the same" really means but it sounds like we have different views on this.
BTW, you should really read the post Olys declarations reported in the newspapers or media in general. It's full of teaching on what not to say!
 
Peepsquick said:
The difference is neither Hanyu nor Javier are Canadians! Thank God for Orser. He had a narrow escape there!:dog:
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What does that mean? I hope you are not being political? There is another forum for that. It would be a ton of hogwash. There have been CDn's at Brian's school. To be a champion you have to put everything into it and leave everything on the ice when you compete. It is not something you choose as an afterschool hobby so far more non-cdn's than cdn's at intensive schools in Canada,
 
barbarafan said:
What does that mean? I hope you are not being political? There is another forum for that. It would be a ton of hogwash. There have been CDn's at Brian's school. To be a champion you have to put everything into it and leave everything on the ice when you compete. It is not something you choose as an afterschool hobby so far more non-cdn's than cdn's at intensive schools in Canada,
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Just talking about the very aggressive stance of some fans when it comes to their favorite! Exacerbated by the fact that it was OG season.
 
Peepsquick said:
Just talking about the very aggressive stance of some fans when it comes to their favorite!
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ok...wasn't sure.....I have favourites from several countries. I have to like how they come across as people as well as their skating but of course it is always nice if it works out that a favourite is also a Cdn. However if someone trains in Canada they become honorary cdns to me and I want to adopt them.One of my big favourites in ice dance is Alexandra Navorova/Maxim Nikitin.
 
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