Papadakis/Cizeron #6 - Season's Over - Let's Get Drunk!

[Icetigger]

@Icetigger - Correction- V&M have won Jr World's, Jr GPF, GPF, 4 Continent's x3, World's x3 and the Olympics. x2.

I only think in terms of seniors (the reason being that Juniors is not a global competition because you can't enter it after a certain age, and no junior couple could have historically have been thought to have been of a level to win a senior global competition, so it's very much a beta competition), and Four continents is not a global competition So that's two olympics, 3 worlds and one gpf. In terms of senior global competitions they have only won 6. However, I've edited my post to make clear that I am only talking senior competitions.

If one values GPF World and Olympic wins as the same (and they do have the same field of entry), V/M don't have that impressive a tally. T/D for example have 5 medals at this level from just a four year period, and without the GPF even existing then. If it had, you can be pretty sure they would have had 8 to 9, and in a different era without them having to go professional, with another four years in them, who knows how high it might have gone.

P/C I would hope can easily beat V/M's medal record before they retire.

 

[Twilight1]

So 4 Continents is not a global competition yet it has almost all of Asia and the Pacific as well as the America's? Europeans only has Europe lol

Your definition is flawed.

Not to mention one does not just "get" Olympic gold medals and 4 Continent's golds from a cracker jack box.

And GPF aren't equal because only 6 couples compete in it and it is based solely on where they place at other grand prix events. Seriously. Bourne and Kraatz won it twice and didn't medal at the Olympics.

 

[Miloune]

So 4 Continents is not a global competition yet it has almost all of Asia and the Pacific as well as the America's? Europeans only has Europe lol

Your definition is flawed.

Not to mention one does not just "get" Olympic gold medals and 4 Continent's golds from a cracker jack box.

And GPF aren't equal because only 6 couples compete in it and it is based solely on where they place at other grand prix events. Seriously. Bourne and Kraatz won it twice and didn't medal at the Olympics.

Lol Europeans has just Europe... uhh that's a lot of countries. And icetigger surely meant global as in "take into account ALL the countries".
Anyway, who cares who has more medals.... *sigh*. Such a fruitless argument.

 

[Twilight1]

It is fruitless because people see what they want to see.

If people want to rag on NA teams perhaps use ONLY events ALL countries can compete in. GPF, 4 Continents and Euros should be off the table then

Virtue and Moir are one of the best skaters in ice dance.

Just like Papadakis and Cizeron are.

One doesn't need to minimize the achievements of one to try to raise up the other.

 

[RoseRed]

Lol Europeans has just Europe... uhh that's a lot of countries. And icetigger surely meant global as in "take into account ALL the countries".
Anyway, who cares who has more medals.... *sigh*. Such a fruitless argument.

I'm not interested in getting into an argument about this sort of thing, because both teams have had incredibly impressive careers for their respective ages, but someone saying that Tessa and Scott don't have that impressive of a record does invite an argument a bit (especially considering they have the best Olympic record of all ice dancers, for example).

But this is Gabi and Guillaume's fan fest, so it's not the place. Gabi and Guillaume already have a ton of medals, and I'm sure they'll be collecting many more over the rest of their career.

On another note, I'm sure this has been discussed before, but what type of music do people want to see them do next year?

 

[Miloune]

It is fruitless because people see what they want to see.

If people want to rag on NA teams perhaps use ONLY events ALL countries can compete in. GPF, 4 Continents and Euros should be off the table then

Virtue and Moir are one of the best skaters in ice dance.

Just like Papadakis and Cizeron are.

One doesn't need to minimize the achievements of one to try to raise up the other.

When I said it was a pointless argument, I'm including both sides here. Nowhere did I got into those counts of medals, and nowhere did I undermine VM's achievements. We all know they're THE GREATEST OF THE GREATS KING OF THE WORLD. There. Can we all stop comparing things that are not really comparable? It all depends on the competitors you have in front of you, of the age you've got, of whether your country has a chance to win a team event medal... blablabla.
If PC win the next 4 world championships, will it diminish VM's accomplishements?? No. But I'm sure some will say so. And vice versa, I'm sure PC's medals will be considered less impressive by some and thus count less. So... whatever..

 

[Icetigger]

At the same time I do find medal counts exciting, and do find any surpassing of previous records impressive (in as much as they can be compared). I also like when someone like Plushenko publishes a congratulatory message to Javier Fernandez on instagram when his own number of wins at Europeans was beaten, or when Larisa Latynina was at the London Olympic games in the audience for Michael Phelps passing her record of 52 years for most Olympic medals. Those for me are great sporting moments. I like it when the older generation are supportive of the younger and also strive to work with them to see their own achievements beaten, because their love of the sport (or of sport) is that great.

 

[Miloune]

At the same time I do find medal counts exciting, and do find any surpassing of previous records impressive (in as much as they can be compared). I also like when someone like Plushenko publishes a congratulatory message to Javier Fernandez on instagram when his own number of wins at Europeans was beaten, or when Larisa Latynina was at the London Olympic games in the audience for Michael Phelps passing her record of 52 years for most Olympic medals. Those for me are great sporting moments. I like it when the older generation are supportive of the younger and also strive to work with them to see their own achievements beaten, because their love of the sport (or of sport) is that great.

I agree with you it's a nice thing.
But again one could argue that Phelps record is not fair because not everyone can compete in 8 races at the same Olympics... lol

 

[cocotaffy]

It should be possible though to praise athletes' achievements without having to justify anything. So P/C have indeed exceeded all expectations at a very young age and that's just something to celebrate is all. It absolutely doesn't take away from others who have paved the way before them but we shouldn't be shy in celebrating it either. Aljona just flanked all of her medals on Instagram and why not, she and her partners earned them. Yet I still love Goredeeva/Grinkov and their MS will stay one of the greatest moment in skating history as S/M Terre Vue du ciel FP.
Anyway, music for them. I have zero idea except I want them to skate a full FD on Rite of Spring one day but having done MS I'd love to see sg else than classical.
I'd like a program based on a painting or a sculpture or maybe an artist a bit like the Frida Kahlo FD.

 

[Miloune]

I'd like blues.. I don't know what song but blues.

 

[Twilight1]

My post was directly linked to Icetigger. They attempted to diminish what V&M accomplished. I actually agreed with your 1st post @Miloune so not sure why you are getting snarky with me.

So lose the sarcasm because I didn't imply V&M were " THE GREATEST OF THE GREATS KING OF THE WORLD."

Do you guys even remotely comprehend that people can actually like both teams?

Because SHOCKER people can and do.

 

[IloveFS]

Them missing the GP season is just a rumour. But even if they actually do it, I don't get how you can call this arrogant!? They are tired and want to take a break, it has nothing to do with snobbing the competition. I'm amazed by the number of people who try to label them with those "arrogant""snobbish""lack of sportmanship" tags. I'm not talking just about you, but also other comments we see sometimes.. I wonder what did they actually do to deserve such false accusations.

This need to bring them down is a shame.

I am not trying to bring them down at all. If the rumour is "true", I question why such a young team feels the need to take the "GP season off". Remember both VM and DW skated straight through 2010 to 2014.

 

[MelDee]

I have zero idea except I want them to skate a full FD on Rite of Spring one day but having done MS I'd love to see sg else than classical.
I'd like a program based on a painting or a sculpture or maybe an artist a bit like the Frida Kahlo FD.

ABSOLUTE YES TO THE RITE OF SPRING!

@cocotaffy your Frida Kahlo FD suggestion brings me to a song based on one of her paintings (and incidentally happens to be by my favourite band) - "What the Water Gave Me" by Florence + The Machine. Another of my dream music picks for them

 

[sap5]

I'm still hoping for "The Middle of the World" from the Moonlight soundtrack (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QX-rSLkQRQ). This is what I hoped they'd be skating to when I first heard they might be skating to something called "Moonlight"

 

[maya1985]

I am not trying to bring them down at all.

Of course not... you just said they had to be an arrogant team but other than that ...you are not trying to bring them down at all...
I do not really know where this rumor comes from, but whether it's true or false is their decision (I do not believe it at all), it has absolutely nothing to do with what happened between 2010 and 2014...

 

[Miloune]

ABSOLUTE YES TO THE RITE OF SPRING!

@cocotaffy your Frida Kahlo FD suggestion brings me to a song based on one of her paintings (and incidentally happens to be by my favourite band) - "What the Water Gave Me" by Florence + The Machine. Another of my dream music picks for them

Oh yes please FLORENCE + THE MACHINE!! It's my favorite band too. Could work!

 

[IloveFS]

Of course not... you just said they had to be an arrogant team but other than that ...you are not trying to bring them down at all...
I do not really know where this rumor comes from, but whether it's true or false is their decision (I do not believe it at all), it has absolutely nothing to do with what happened between 2010 and 2014...

Let's see how this plays out!!!!

 

[allezfred]

@Icetigger - Correction- V&M have won Jr World's, Jr GPF, GPF, 4 Continent's x3, World's x3 and the Olympics. x2.

I think the clue were in the words “Senior” and “global” about what was being counted. Seniors cannot compete at Junior Worlds or Junior Grand Prix Final and Europeans and 4CCs exclude by default skaters from other countries so they cannot be called global.

Not that any of the above is relevant if you don’t want it to be. We all know Papadakis and Cizeron are the greatest because they invented Nutella!

 

[Twilight1]

Allezfred they changed their post after I challenged it. Perhaps you missed that.

Regardless if one counts Euros and does not count 4 CC's in their criteria on wins for a couple (which is the equivalent to Euro's for non Euro skaters) just "cause" they want to, I can't take what they say with any seriousness.

And Nutella invention aside, we all know bitterness jades us don't we.

Now go ahead and pick my post away... you uber you.

 

[Miloune]

My post was directly linked to Icetigger. They attempted to diminish what V&M accomplished. I actually agreed with your 1st post @Miloune so not sure why you are getting snarky with me.

So lose the sarcasm because I didn't imply V&M were " THE GREATEST OF THE GREATS KING OF THE WORLD."

Do you guys even remotely comprehend that people can actually like both teams?

Because SHOCKER people can and do.

I'm sorry for the snarkiness it's just that everybody know what VM achieved, there's no need to remember everyone of what they did. Plus Icetigger count was correct (according to his/her criteria). And I don't think Euros counted either. PC has 4 with worlds and GPF, euros excluded so I don't get the argument about euros vs 4CC...

 

[Icetigger]

I think the clue were in the words “Senior” and “global” about what was being counted. Seniors cannot compete at Junior Worlds or Junior Grand Prix Final and Europeans and 4CCs exclude by default skaters from other countries so they cannot be called global.

Not that any of the above is relevant if you don’t want it to be. We all know Papadakis and Cizeron are the greatest because they invented Nutella!

Exactly, it's one of many takes statistical or otherwise.... A GPF, World or Olympic win says to me that you were the best competitively in the world at that point (but only at a senior level). Drawing a comparison between teams based on that criterion for me has validity; and I think it was obvious that that was the criterion being presented accurately and correctly in the original post.

 

[Twilight1]

I'm sorry for the snarkiness it's just that everybody know what VM achieved, there's no need to remember everyone of what they did. Plus Icetigger count was correct (according to his/her criteria). And I don't think Euros counted either. PC has 4 with worlds and GPF, euros excluded so I don't get the argument about euros vs 4CC...

Icetigger brought them up in their "analysis" Don't want V&M' s accomplishments brought up in a fan thread for P&C? Please encourage P&C fans to not negate their opponents accompishements.

I do the same in the V&M thread when someone has the gaul to say P&C don't deserve their records which I completely disagree with.

 

[Twilight1]

@Icetigger sure and I can counter and say that the Oly's are the most watched and marquee sporting event for skating and only those results matter.

Doesn't make my opinion more right than yours.

 

[Deleted member 74551]

Taking a break now would be a sensible decision if that’s what they opt to do. 4 years is a long time. It’s hardly as if missing a GP circuit would affect their results either- look at how they did after they were forced to sit out late 2015.

I thought they’d already confirmed staying in Montreal? I don’t see how MF & P could have done any more for them this quad.

I am not trying to bring them down at all. If the rumour is "true", I question why such a young team feels the need to take the "GP season off". Remember both VM and DW skated straight through 2010 to 2014.

I’ve long thought V/M should have taken 2010/11 off. Tessa’s shins needed a proper break, and the two of them just looked so over it and burned out by Sochi. I completely believe them when they say they truly were done.

 

[Miloune]

I do the same in the V&M thread when someone has the gaul to say P&C don't deserve their records which I completely disagree with.

I stoped counting the number of posts I saw where PC was put down in the VM thread and no one corrected it... it's an impossible task anyway (even if I know you do it sometimes)

 

[Icetigger]

@Icetigger sure and I can counter and say that the Oly's are the most watched and marquee sporting event for skating and only those results matter.

Doesn't make my opinion more right than yours.

It was a statistical comparison based on a single criterion, which I felt was adequately explained. Of course there are others!

 

[Twilight1]

I stop counting the number of posts I saw where PC was put down in the VM thread and no one corrected it... it's an impossible task anyway (even if I know you do it sometimes)

Honestly I go into both fan threads to see the pics and the skates.

Seriously think that is the best part. (esp the modelesque pics posted of G&G lately.)

Overall I try to ignore most things I disagree with in both threads but when someone is a legit fan of both couples it is next to impossible to not respond to some things.

 

[Peepsquick]

Going back to potential choice of music for them:
"Rite of Spring" would be an exciting choice!
In a (very) different style: Agnes Obel (down by the riverside / just so/ the curse / familiar) would be right up their alley but may be to similar to what we've heard/seen so far.
Ideally I'd like them to skate to something bringing up joy and lightness of spirit to contrast with the last programs.

 

[Icetigger]

Going back to potential choice of music for them:
"Rite of Spring" would be an exciting choice!
In a (very) different style: Agnes Obel (down by the riverside / just so/ the curse / familiar) would be right up their alley but may be to similar to what we've heard/seen so far.
Ideally I'd like them to skate to something bringing up joy and lightness of spirit to contrast with the last programs.

Me too. Something really pop would be good. But good pop. Emotional pop. Plus Tango is quite dark and heavy to my ears, so it would be a good year to do it.

 

[Miloune]

Apparently Guillaume is listening to Astor Piazzolla (Tangos y canciones) on his spotify... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTPec8z5vdY