Avanta Boot Labs Slam Karen Chen For Boot Problems

[Vagabond]

Also very telling that Avanta's IG post insulting Chen is still there *five days* after mystery poster @SNG said Avanta was "in the process" of taking the post down

I agree, I already talked with the owner and it's in the process of being removed.

"The check is in the mail."
"This won't hurt."
"One size fits all."
"They all speak English."
"I'll still respect you in the morning."

 

[barbk]

I wonder what boots Karen will wear at Worlds? And what she's going to do for next season on the boot front? I think it not so likely that there are a bunch of other boot companies eager to sponsor her.

I have just a tiny bit of sympathy for Avanta. While the general public has no idea about boot makers, the skating world certainly does. They likely felt attacked by her constant complaints about boots even if their name wasn't mentioned. However, they should have never responded they way they did. Dropping the sponsorship - sure.

I don't wear skating boots any longer, but I've been trying to find a pair of clogs that fit like my old Born ones and despite Nordstrom, Zappos and more than 30 different try-ons, I'm still looking. (Narrower heel, wide forefront and tall toes.)

 

[vesperholly]

I have just a tiny bit of sympathy for Avanta. While the general public has no idea about boot makers, the skating world certainly does. They likely felt attacked by her constant complaints about boots even if their name wasn't mentioned. However, they should have never responded they way they did. Dropping the sponsorship - sure.

If it was so bad, I'm surprised that Karen wouldn't have left the sponsorship. She was getting new boots every 6 weeks for TWO YEARS. Free must be better than being in pain and skating badly?

 

[BrightSkates]

Are skates really flexible enough at the ankle though? Mine are not very flexible, compared to my hockey skates the difference is absurd ( I understand they can't be the same of course) and I actually study the ankle bend when watching elite skaters landing and I don't see much. But if what you say is true I would be glad, of course. According to my skate guy, Parabolic is a total gimmick tho, lol.

I have Gold Seal Parabolic and can tell for sure - it's not a gimmick! (This is mu second Parabolic pair, the first one was MK Professional Parabolic and I missed then very much that why i went with GS Parabolic). They are so much fun! The turns are so much centered and easier, faster and more enjoyable. Crossovers are also much smoother and sure. My twizzles improved so much for no reason! Reminds me like skiing in twin tips vs regular downhill skis. Sure one have to have very good posture and pretty strong skating skills to feel the difference. If one scratches on the toe picks or hunches there is no way they will feel a difference. BTW I've read that Yuzuru skates on Parabolic blades and so do many ice dancers.

 

[MacMadame]

If it was so bad, I'm surprised that Karen wouldn't have left the sponsorship. She was getting new boots every 6 weeks for TWO YEARS. Free must be better than being in pain and skating badly?

I wouldn't be surprised if she stopped skating. She's been to Worlds and Olympics and, while she didn't medal there, she's had the experience at least. Plus, she's High School-aged so she might be thinking about having a "normal" High School experience, which she won't have if she keeps being an elite skater.

Then again, maybe she'll take some time to heal up and come back stronger. You never know.

Despite what Avanta says, I don't think she has anything to be ashamed of in her skating career. She's done everything asked of her and gone very far. Many people would kill to have her skating resume. Sure, she thinks she could have gone farther and to miss that because of injury is so frustrating. But she's still done much to be proud of.

 

[Spun Silver]

I wouldn't be surprised if she stopped skating. She's been to Worlds and Olympics and, while she didn't medal there, she's had the experience at least. Plus, she's High School-aged so she might be thinking about having a "normal" High School experience, which she won't have if she keeps being an elite skater.

Then again, maybe she'll take some time to heal up and come back stronger. You never know.

Despite what Avanta says, I don't think she has anything to be ashamed of in her skating career. She's done everything asked of her and gone very far. Many people would kill to have her skating resume. Sure, she thinks she could have gone farther and to miss that because of injury is so frustrating. But she's still done much to be proud of.

Did I miss something? I don't think she is injured currently. I have no inside info but I would be surprised if she quit. She seems pretty driven. But something's gotta give with the boot issue!

 

[Vagabond]

Plus, she's High School-aged so she might be thinking about having a "normal" High School experience, which she won't have if she keeps being an elite skater.

Chen turns nineteen in August and studies "at home." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Chen

She won't ever have a "normal" high school experience

 

[Twilight1]

@Vagabond "respect you in the morning"

Sorry still laughing with that statement.

Feel for Karen. This was really bad form by Avanta. So convenient they have not removed the offending post. Disgusting.

 

[overedge]

@barbk Chen can go out and buy boots, the same way that 99.9999% of all skaters get their boots

Although I do feel for her, as it will be really difficult to adjust to new boots in such a short time frame.

 

[Tinami Amori]

If it was so bad, I'm surprised that Karen wouldn't have left the sponsorship. She was getting new boots every 6 weeks for TWO YEARS. Free must be better than being in pain and skating badly?

..... well, given Avanta boots, as i found out, cost on the average 1500 USD, and there are 104 weeks in 2 years, it means 17 sets of boots = $ 25,500 USD. Karen has lots of extra boots for sure....

 

[hanca]

..... well, given Avanta boots, as i found out, cost on the average 1500 USD, and there are 104 weeks in 2 years, it means 17 sets of boots = $ 25,500 USD. Karen has lots of extra boots for sure....

The question is whether any of those pairs of boots are any good though. If they were, why wouldn’t she take them to olympics, if she had such a choice?

 

[Debbie S]

..... well, given Avanta boots, as i found out, cost on the average 1500 USD

Where did you read this? Two years ago, Avanta boots were $1050. They may have gone up somewhat but I doubt that much. Obviously, blades will be an additional cost.

 

[Tinami Amori]

This situation is not good for either party. If i had a magic wand, i would have K. Yamaguchi, who is well respected, lives in the area, and knows both Chen and Avanta, get all parties together, be moderator, and help both sides to sort this situation out! Something went terribly wrong, and there is always a possibility some "third party rumor/involvement" might have caused this intensity. Yago/Othello/Desdemona situation... sort of.

I have issues, actually, with both parties/sides... Karen's foto of the damaged boot in the tweet was VERY deliberate.. it was not the kind of "oh, look, my boot is damaged" foto taken on a spare of the moment out of emotions and concerns.. It is a very crafty foto! with art-work, shade enhancement, artistic lettering... it's almost like an advertisement... what for? Given there are plenty of mentions about Karen using Avanta's boots (on ice-network, EastBay press, Avanta's website, and other print media), i can see how Avanta saw a direct connection between that tweet and their brand name. I can see very well, how Karen's tweet can be viewed as passive-aggressive.. She does not mention the brand-name, but everyone in the skating world knows the boots are Avanta. Avanta sees it as a ploy and an attack on them after giving her ~17 pairs of free boots... I can also imagine "All About Eve" situation, she is so innocent and all she did is asked people to pray for her because of bad boot... but the setting of the WHOLE situation is not that cut and dry..

Avanta's reply, on the other hand, is unprofessional and ineffective. Not because they don't possibly have a legitimate concern, but because the form and method they used does NOT solve any problems for either party.

Someone needs to moderate them, and hear each side of the story (in private of course), and make peace. Like we say in Russia: sickly peace is better than a healthy fight...

 

[Deleted member 53443]

I have Gold Seal Parabolic and can tell for sure - it's not a gimmick! (This is mu second Parabolic pair, the first one was MK Professional Parabolic and I missed then very much that why i went with GS Parabolic). They are so much fun! The turns are so much centered and easier, faster and more enjoyable. Crossovers are also much smoother and sure. My twizzles improved so much for no reason! Reminds me like skiing in twin tips vs regular downhill skis. Sure one have to have very good posture and pretty strong skating skills to feel the difference. If one scratches on the toe picks or hunches there is no way they will feel a difference. BTW I've read that Yuzuru skates on Parabolic blades and so do many ice dancers.

Interesting! I suspect you are on a quite high level, me I would probably not feel the difference

 

[aftershocks]

You do you though I'm not sure if you read my post correctly or are choosing to take it the wrong way. I was only talking about Avanta's post and my inability to understand how anybody could read what they wrote and think any part of that is ok. I have no interest in guessing what Karen may or may not have done because I don't have any information on that but I think whatever she did was irrelevant to how a grown-ass business owner conducts himself. I observed the posting styles and posts of people who decided to be on "team Avanta" and I realized there was a common tone to it and it was seriously anti-Karen. Nothing you say is going to convince me otherwise because I, like you, have the ability to observe and absorb information and filter it through my own analysis.

That's fine @VIETgrlTerifa. I respect your abilities to absorb, discern and state how you feel. I also agree with you quite often. On this issue and in regard to the specific post I cited, you seemed to be lumping a lot of things together. It's obviously an over-emotional situation, but I think the majority of people in the thread are quite clear about not condoning Avanta's terrible behavior cluelessly retaliating against Karen, and their subsequent ridiculous sockpuppetry. It's inexcusable on their part. Believing Avanta erred in their behavior is separate from some fans unkindly regarding Karen's post asking for prayers the day before the fp and mentioning a boot problem. Fans who commented on that clearly stated their separate views, and did not lump what Avanta did with their dislike for Karen's post at the Olympics. Therefore, your direct quote IMO seems to be making erroneous assumptions. I didn't see anyone saying they felt Karen deserved to be punished for her post.

Here is your direct quote which I am not choosing to take the wrong way. It's your direct quote:
"I believe the ones who are failing to look at Avanta’s behavior as a whole and are expressing that Karen posting a pic of her boot and [annoyingly] mentioning boot problems and having a bad Olympic showing and having an inconsistent career is equitable to what Avanta did truly believe Karen deserves to be punished..."

If it's not what you intended as stated, then thanks for clarifying. Anyone who looked at everything that reportedly happened and rightfully called out Avanta for their terrible post, but who also saw both sides of the reported dealings between Avanta and Karen surrounding her boots, should not be accused of 'believing Karen deserves to be punished.' That's a huge conclusion to jump to, and it seems rather emotional. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just stating how I see it based on what I've read. This is an emotionally wrought drama, but it's also possible to take a step back and be objective.

I was happy for Karen and rooting for her at the beginning of the season. Then a lot of things seemed to not work out for her based on her own choices. I felt sorry for her by Nationals. I understand U.S. fed's desire to reward Karen with an Olympics berth. I was somewhat optimistic for Karen when she made the team, but I still did not think she'd done much to show that her performances would improve at the Olympics. Hopefully, she will be able to find another boot manufacturer who can actually help her with the boot fit issue, and work successfully to prevent future boot complications. As far as improving her skating and her competitive consistency, she has to find that from within.

 

[Yazmeen]

"The check is in the mail."
"This won't hurt."
"One size fits all."
"They all speak English."
"I'll still respect you in the morning."

Um, there's one more but I will be a lady and not let's mention it. Aside from saying it was an oral issue...

Avanta is an insult to what Bill Klingbeil built. #RescueTheSignatureChair

 

[aftershocks]

You can't compare today's skaters from skaters 25 to 50 years ago. They spent a big chunk of their time training compulsory figures not leaving the ice thus not putting the pressure on the body and feet that today's skaters do by jumping so much at practices. While the sport has changed enormously, the skates have not. Because the boot is so stiff at the ankle, the impact on the hips and spine is just insane when landing the jumps.

Coming from hockey, I'm amazed how little figure skates have evolved. While hockey skates, running shoes and other equipment is constantly evolving and adjusting to the sports and athletes, figure skates feel like using dial-up modem when surfing the web. The money is not there for lab testing, which is sad because this is a problem giving skaters serious injury problems. And it's not irrelevant injuries, it's spinal defects and teenagers getting stress fractures.

I say talk more about boot issues, not less, and get some money into research for boots that will avoid skaters destroying their bodies.

Yep, exactly. And that should be the overriding takeaway from all of this. There is a dire need for more research and development to be done regarding skate boots. It's been clear for some time, and I do not understand the inability for more resources to be directed to advancing and improving boot technology for today's figure skaters. The current situation is shameful with so much being expected of skaters and the continual instances of serious problems with skate boots. Not to mention all of the serious physical injuries skaters suffer.

You’re reciting well used rhetoric that is no longer true. From heat moldable boots to different tongue designs to the Edea’s( most hideous invention) to the multi material Don Jackson’s, they’ve advanced more IN the past 10 years than the 60’s- 2010. The blades have as well and not just mor than more manufacturers. K-pick, Parabolic, different materials. If anything there are a lot of options albeit not extreme. Some ideas were novel but not reliable like the hinged boots.

The advances you describe have been very slow and inadequate. The manufacturing technology has not substantially changed. I think they realize that different materials need to be developed, but the progress is slow and the construction methodology not greatly different in terms of making a significant difference for the harsh impact skaters sustain on their bodies.

 

[MacMadame]

Chen turns nineteen in August and studies "at home." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Chen

She won't ever have a "normal" high school experience

When did that happen? I swear she was 15.

Okay, what about college? Maybe she will want to do that.

 

[Vagabond]

When did that happen? I swear she was 15.

She was. About three years ago.

 

[Jarrett]

This situation is not good for either party. If i had a magic wand, i would have K. Yamaguchi, who is well respected, lives in the area, and knows both Chen and Avanta, get all parties together, be moderator, and help both sides to sort this situation out! Something went terribly wrong, and there is always a possibility some "third party rumor/involvement" might have caused this intensity. Yago/Othello/Desdemona situation... sort of.

I have issues, actually, with both parties/sides... Karen's foto of the damaged boot in the tweet was VERY deliberate.. it was not the kind of "oh, look, my boot is damaged" foto taken on a spare of the moment out of emotions and concerns.. It is a very crafty foto! with art-work, shade enhancement, artistic lettering... it's almost like an advertisement... what for? Given there are plenty of mentions about Karen using Avanta's boots (on ice-network, EastBay press, Avanta's website, and other print media), i can see how Avanta saw a direct connection between that tweet and their brand name. I can see very well, how Karen's tweet can be viewed as passive-aggressive.. She does not mention the brand-name, but everyone in the skating world knows the boots are Avanta. Avanta sees it as a ploy and an attack on them after giving her ~17 pairs of free boots... I can also imagine "All About Eve" situation, she is so innocent and all she did is asked people to pray for her because of bad boot... but the setting of the WHOLE situation is not that cut and dry..

Avanta's reply, on the other hand, is unprofessional and ineffective. Not because they don't possibly have a legitimate concern, but because the form and method they used does NOT solve any problems for either party.

Someone needs to moderate them, and hear each side of the story (in private of course), and make peace. Like we say in Russia: sickly peace is better than a healthy fight...

You do realize that type of photo with those edits take a whole 5 or 10 seconds to make for anyone with instagram?

 

[Mathman]

Karen's got this.

She grabs her second-best pair of boots and it's off to Milan. If she skates well, "This was a challenging season, but I tried my best. See you next year."

If she skates badly, "This was a challenging season, but I tried my best. See you next year."

 

[soogar]

You’re reciting well used rhetoric that is no longer true. From heat moldable boots to different tongue designs to the Edea’s( most hideous invention) to the multi material Don Jackson’s, they’ve advanced more IN the past 10 years than the 60’s- 2010. The blades have as well and not just mor than more manufacturers. K-pick, Parabolic, different materials. If anything there are a lot of options albeit not extreme. Some ideas were novel but not reliable like the hinged boots.

Heat moldable is not magic. If the last does not fit the heel properly you can do all the molding on the top and the foot will still move in the boot. Just because the skates are more advanced doesn't mean that they the equivalent of sneakers. They are just more advanced compared to the boots of 20 years ago but if they can't be customized to fit (mixed widths with heel and forefoot) then all the bells and whistles don't matter if the foot moves around in the boot.

 

[lola10]

Oh boy...it's been a long time since I lasted posted here. Anyway, since I tried to get some information about the whole drama, I stumbled on this thread and am grateful for the clarifying posts.

I do feel Karen Chen was pointing out the boot issues a bit too often over the course of her career. It does not mean it is not valid but it comes across as annoying petty excuses and I do understand people getting annoyed by it. However, Avantas reaction is way too much and very unprofessional.

Some here mentioned how other skaters (such as Michele Kwan, Nathan Chen, Yuzuru Hanyu, Wenjin Sui) are able to skate well despite less than stellar circumstances and I think here is one of Chen's main issues. She cannot put less idle outside factors behind her and focus on the competition. I feel like that issues like her boots or an awful practice before the competition are feeding her self-doubts and she cannot handle the nerves anymore...and that is a mental problem.

I have read that she started working with a sports psychologist and I do hope she keeps it during the off-season. Such problems need time and continuity. If she has more confidence in her own skating and is able to cut out any outside factors then boot issues should not be the main worry anymore.

She is a well-rounded skater who has the technical content if skated cleanly and has a lot of potential.

 

[Simone411]

This situation is not good for either party. If i had a magic wand, i would have K. Yamaguchi, who is well respected, lives in the area, and knows both Chen and Avanta, get all parties together, be moderator, and help both sides to sort this situation out! Something went terribly wrong, and there is always a possibility some "third party rumor/involvement" might have caused this intensity. Yago/Othello/Desdemona situation... sort of.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all had magic wands and just make our problems disappear. Or we could either say those magic words like Bugs Bunny did in this particular cartoon: Hocus Pocus.

I believe if anyone could possibly help with the situation like you mentioned that Kristi might be able to help some. It just depends on how willing Avanta would be to do just that. It's apparent that they haven't taken down the offending post, and probably won't. If Avanta isn't even willing to do that, then they probably wouldn't agree to a meeting with Kristi being the moderator, either. I think it's going to take more than just a magic wand to make it happen. But we can always wish for a little hocus pocus to happen.

 

[lmarie086]

I know it's been said, but the fact that the post is still up even though they were "in the process of deleting it," really says a lot.

 

[mag]

I know it's been said, but the fact that the post is still up even though they were "in the process of deleting it," really says a lot.

I am interested to know what “in the process of deleting it” really means. Okay, here is my finger, I am moving it toward the keyboard, here it is now pushing the delete key. Seriously, what process?

 

[Frida80]

I am interested to know what “in the process of deleting it” really means. Okay, here is my finger, I am moving it toward the keyboard, here it is now pushing the delete key. Seriously, what process?

It means, I’m a liar. I’m still mad at Karen, so I’m going to leave this up here until she does what I want. Until then, I’m going to scream to the high heavens how bad she is.

 

[just wondering]

I am interested to know what “in the process of deleting it” really means. Okay, here is my finger, I am moving it toward the keyboard, here it is now pushing the delete key. Seriously, what process?

HA! So true . . . They only thing Avanta deleted was the portion where it referred the reader to "USFSA" for further information.
(As if USFS really wants to run Avanta's PR campaign against Chen . . . . eye roll!)

 

[vesperholly]

I know it's been said, but the fact that the post is still up even though they were "in the process of deleting it," really says a lot.

The person that posted that statement was not from Avanta, just someone who "knew" a person there.

 

[hanca]

I am interested to know what “in the process of deleting it” really means. Okay, here is my finger, I am moving it toward the keyboard, here it is now pushing the delete key. Seriously, what process?

It may mean:
Step 1 - learning read and write, so that one can find the right button to push
Step 2 - saving money for buying a computer
Step 3 - buying a computer and trying to find someone who can set it up
Step 4 - arranging wifi to be able to get on the internet
Step 5 - logging into Instagram
Step 6 - searching for the offensive post
Step 7 - finally finding it and pushing the right button to delete it. Whoa, it was a hard job!

Considering that step one and step two can take several years, with a bit of luck and some serious commitment, it will be gone in roughly five years time.