Olympic champ Zagitova challenges US skater after criticism

If the ISU wants a "well balanced program" they need to change the rules to define it differently. As is, well balanced seems to only mean "jump not at the beginning." (I realize Ashley qualified her comment to say "the system allows it".)

It's a sport, and Zagitova had the perfect response.
You wouldn't criticize a basketball team for only shooting 3 pointers instead of relying on (uh, something that scores 2 points).
 
Is it really a rebuttal if it completely misses the point.

Ashley didn’t say it wasn’t a difficult lp. She said it was an lp that sacrificed performance for technical content.

How is “if it’s so easy you try doing it!” A direct response?

I don’t know why she’s even bothering to respond. She won. She won following the rules. Responding to a comment you find rude with an equally rude comeback is not the way of a champion imho
 
Sounds like Alina's really touchy about this issue. Its hardly only Ashley who has raised this issue.

I think its great that its out there and being discussed. How do we want figure skating to go? Do we want more emphasis on technical or on artistry? Its a valid discussion to be having. Good job Ashley for forcing it to the fore.

If a skater has beautiful artistry but not enough tech content they'll be criticized for it and probably try to improve. Hopefully this will fire up Alina to add to her artistry!
 
berthesghost said:
Is it really a rebuttal if it completely misses the point.

Ashley didn’t say it wasn’t a difficult lp. She said it was an lp that sacrificed performance for technical content.

How is “if it’s so easy you try doing it!” A direct response?

I don’t know why she’s even bothering to respond. She won. She won following the rules. Responding to a comment you find rude with an equally rude comeback is not the way of a champion imho
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I have a different read on this. Remember that Wagner's comments were all over the media for a week, repeated and regurgitated ad nauseam. Zagitova didn't come out and blast her, she gave what I thought was a measured response to a direct question from the reporter. Although I would have so loved it if she responded with "well I'm here and she's not, so.."

I will also say, with all my kindness, that criticizing competitors at the event you tried and failed to make is stupid because it makes you an easy target. Compete on ice, or shut up.
 
Based on the comments in the Russia thread, it sounds like Alina was asked directly about Ashley’s comments.

Personally I don’t mind Ashley’s comments (don’t like it, can’t do it, would if I could) and don’t see anything wrong with Alina’s reply, either. Good for her if the haters motivate her to do better.
 
Nadya said:
I have a different read on this. Remember that Wagner's comments were all over the media for a week, repeated and regurgitated ad nauseam. Zagitova didn't come out and blast her, she gave what I thought was a measured response to a direct question from the reporter. Although I would have so loved it if she responded with "well I'm here and she's not, so.."

I will also say, with all my kindness, that criticizing competitors at the event you tried and failed to make is stupid because it makes you an easy target. Compete on ice, or shut up.
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yeah, I get that the media loves a good sexist cat fight angle, hence her being asked specifically about Ashley’s comment despite a dozen others all saying the same, it’s more “meow” coming from another competitor who didn’t make the cut. I also get that we don’t always respond the best especially when goated but I do feel mildly disappointed she took the bait.

As for Ashley, was she really just talking out of turn? I thought she had some kind of commentary gig going, that’s why she was there. Did I get that wrong?
 
berthesghost said:
yeah, I get that the media loves a good sexist cat fight angle, hence her being asked specifically about Ashley’s comment despite a dozen others all saying the same, it’s more “meow” coming from another competitor who didn’t make the cut. I also get that we don’t always respond the best especially when goated but I do feel mildly disappointed she took the bait.

As for Ashley, was she really just talking out of turn? I thought she had some kind of commentary gig going, that’s why she was there. Did I get that wrong?
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No, she was not doing commentary. She was there to promote Toyota.
 
berthesghost said:
Is it really a rebuttal if it completely misses the point.

Ashley didn’t say it wasn’t a difficult lp. She said it was an lp that sacrificed performance for technical content.

How is “if it’s so easy you try doing it!” A direct response?

I don’t know why she’s even bothering to respond. She won. She won following the rules. Responding to a comment you find rude with an equally rude comeback is not the way of a champion imho
Click to expand...

:confused: did you read the quotes from Zagitova? She was asked directly about Wagners comments and the impression she gave was pretty much what we all say - performance is subjective, and she disagrees with the comments, she invited Wanger to try to do the same programme and Zagitova herself said she wouldn't criticise it. It wasn't at all a "if it's so easy then why don't you do it" argument.

Perhaps Zagitova was challenging her to do a level 4 step sequence and spins, rather than just the 7 jumping passes in the 2nd half :D
 
Over the years, Ashley has been criticized for much..She oftentimes came back on Twitter about it. Ashley said it, Alina responded..There ya go. Next..
 
Nadya said:
Although I would have so loved it if she responded with "well I'm here and she's not, so.."
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It's what I would have said, as I lovingly stroked the Olympic Gold Medal hanging from around my neck. That or something about Ashley's empty kill time 4 min+ programs. :EVILLE:

Mind you, I see nothing wrong with either the initial criticism, ( :cheer2: Ashley) or the response. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
 
Clearly Ashley's critique wasn't personal. Clearly Alina took it personally. NBD, she's young and these things happen. Also, I think the Olympics have left nearly everyone -- fans included! -- tired, testy, and spoiling for an argument. :yawn: But it'll probably all die away before long, like these things tend to do.
 
Wyliefan said:
Clearly Ashley's critique wasn't personal. Clearly Alina took it personally. NBD, she's young and these things happen. Also, I think the Olympics have left nearly everyone -- fans included! -- tired, testy, and spoiling for an argument. :yawn: But it'll probably all die away before long, like these things tend to do.
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:lol: I'm pretty sure Wagner meant it personally and if I'd been Zagitova, I'd have taken it exactly as she did. But, like @Mayra, I'd have been stroking my gold medal while I answered. Critics can whine all they want just like the did toward Adelina, but at the end of the day, who has the medal.
 
BlueRidge said:
Hopefully this will fire up Alina to add to her artistry!
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Alina's artistry is top-notch. She projects, skates to the music and not through it, holds her lines, has good extension, lots of transitions, etc.

Wyliefan said:
Clearly Ashley's critique wasn't personal. Clearly Alina took it personally.
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If you say so. I thought her response was measured and mature and Ashley was being a butthead.
 
rfisher said:
:lol: I'm pretty sure Wagner meant it personally and if I'd been Zagitova, I'd have taken it exactly as she did. But, like @Mayra, I'd have been stroking my gold medal while I answered. Critics can whine all they want just like the did toward Adelina, but at the end of the day, who has the medal.
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It’s not like the US ladies are anywhere near being competitive with the Russians anyway. Maybe worry about Korea, Italy, Japan and Canada before complaining about Russia.
 
rfisher said:
:lol: I'm pretty sure Wagner meant it personally and if I'd been Zagitova, I'd have taken it exactly as she did. But, like @Mayra, I'd have been stroking my gold medal while I answered. Critics can whine all they want just like the did toward Adelina, but at the end of the day, who has the medal.
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This was as personal as it gets. I thought it was really tacky. I would have loved for Zagitova to respond with something catty, like "I am sorry, but who is Ashley Wagner?" But hey, she seems like a mature girl. Not a fan of her skating, but can't dislike her as a person.
 
fsfann said:
^^What?^^

I respect her ability to jump, but I don't know about projecting, holding lines/extension etc....
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Alina's performances leave me completely cold. Not like with early Medvedeva, where I saw something - imperfect but special. Zag's is just too darn robotic. Do you guys think she has IT in her? You know what I mean. I can't explain. Like something in her that will grow and draw us in and make her memorable?
 
berthesghost said:
Is it really a rebuttal if it completely misses the point.

Ashley didn’t say it wasn’t a difficult lp. She said it was an lp that sacrificed performance for technical content.

How is “if it’s so easy you try doing it!” A direct response?

I don’t know why she’s even bothering to respond. She won. She won following the rules. Responding to a comment you find rude with an equally rude comeback is not the way of a champion imho
Click to expand...
True, she was given the gold medal for a reason, and Ashley should stay out of it. Congratulate her on all the good things this young lady was able to accomplish. My goodness, I think Ashley has an emotional hangover from US Nationals and not getting the PC's she THOUGHT she deserved.
 
I don't think she's robotic. She's dynamic. I liked her short better than her long; I think she really performed the hell out that. Can she improve? Of course! I think people are exaggerating her lack of artistry, she's got a lot to build on, that is to say there is a lot there already.

ETA: I agree with Ashley with regard to the jump layout; but that is not specific to Alina nor is it about Alina's artistic ability. Its about a specific way of laying out the jumps.

I'm :lol: that people can't take Ashley commenting on it. As I said, I'm glad she's speaking up. I'm glad people are hearing. Maybe skaters and choreographers will develop a more dynamic non-jump first half that will quiet the criticisms, even. Then maybe they'll be making the case that jumps aren't the be-all and the end-all even when they are garnering those extra points. Its a nice challenge one way or another.
 
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