The Skating Lesson

Willin said:
If Dave any my conspiracy theory is right maybe the Russian fed was furious that they couldn't cook the PCS well enough.
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If there was any "cooking" involved, then, I would say they did a pretty good job. T&M LP had high PCS all year, and even at the Oly.
 
Willin said:
@Amantide Them having the highest PCS with that awful, awful FS has to be the best evidence for cooking of PCS.
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That was my point. To say they were angry cause "they couldn't cook the PCS well enough" doesn't make much sense. T&M podium was there for them to take. They lost it, nobody else. I do not believe for a second the narrative he's selling.

There might be a "cooking" in ID, for all I know. But it ain't gonna be cause the Russian Fed are "mad" cause T&M lost the podium. That's plain stupid.

p.s. I usually take the "cooking" for granted, especially during the Oly season. But not just for the Russians.
 
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@Amantide That was the only reason I could think Dave would think the Russian officials were angry about their scores. I think the skaters and coaches themselves were entirely aware that T/M weren't going to medal based on the interview. I don't think they can cook an entire judging panel and they would've had to do that to get the PCS high enough to make up for those mistakes.

TBH I'm more excited for the Ice Dance cooking. I personally believe all countries "cook," but that the Russians have only perfected it in Singles/Pairs (probably because most judges who do singles also do pairs as well). In Ice Dance it seems the cooking is more of a free for all with every man for himself. The most interesting part about the BuzzFeed article regarding ice dance judging was the assertion that there appeared to still be voting blocks in Ice Dance. One day I'd like to have a judge write a tell all about Ice Dance judging. Or for there to be two competitions every Olympics - the actual Ice Dance competition and a battle of strategy and wits to see which federation is the best at bending the panel to their will.
 
Willin said:
@Amantide That was the only reason I could think Dave would think the Russian officials were angry about their scores. I think the skaters and coaches themselves were entirely aware that T/M weren't going to medal based on the interview. I don't think they can cook an entire judging panel and they would've had to do that to get the PCS high enough to make up for those mistakes.
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But it doesn't stand. The inflation on PCS work only if you do not make mistakes. Or you have minor mistakes and your competition does the same, more or less. In that case PCS make the difference. But with a bad skate, no Fed can be mad with the judges. The Russian judge itself, put them in 4rth.
I repeat, if T&M would've skated clean, they would've been in the podium. No doubt about that.

In Ice Dance it seems the cooking is more of a free for all with every man for himself. The most interesting part about the BuzzFeed article regarding ice dance judging was the assertion that there appeared to still be voting blocks in Ice Dance. One day I'd like to have a judge write a tell all about Ice Dance judging. Or for there to be two competitions every Olympics - the actual Ice Dance competition and a battle of strategy and wits to see which federation is the best at bending the panel to their will.
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I do think there is still a "block" in ID. And I am sure the Europeans would prefer a European couple, P&C in this case.
I'm still not sure about the Italian judge (is there any? I haven't checked.) though. They can go either with the French fed or CAN/USA, depending if it suits for their couples.

However, I also do keep in mind that some narratives are prepared and sold right before a competition to "cry me a river", in case "their" couple doesn't win. :shuffle:
 
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@Amantide I mean, I have no idea why Dave said the Russian officials were angry about the scores since it seems like everyone else wasn't surprised. But those PCS were still cooked. They shouldn't have been at the top of PCS for that performance. For the SP maybe, but that skate was messy and not performed well.

According to the Buzzfeed article, the US votes with the French in Ice Dance while Japan tends to vote for the Canadians. Turkish and Russian judges always voted for the Russian couple, while the Italians and Americans tended to vote against them. Japanese judges also tend to score Chock/Bates over the other two US couples and favor Cappellini/Lanote.
 
Willin said:
@Amantide But those PCS were still cooked. They shouldn't have been at the top of PCS for that performance. For the SP maybe, but that skate was messy and not performed well.
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I agree. And I do not think they should've received those high PCS during the year, with a good skating either.

According to the Buzzfeed article, the US votes with the French in Ice Dance while Japan tends to vote for the Canadians. Turkish and Russian judges always voted for the Russian couple, while the Italians and Americans tended to vote against them. Japanese judges also tend to score Chock/Bates over the other two US couples and favor Cappellini/Lanote.
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Lmao
That sounds like a mess. Too much work.
 
overedge said:
I thought that Meagan was mad at Dave and refused to have anything to do with TSL after he "revealed" that she allegedly nicknamed Trankov "Maxipad". Did he apologize or something?
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Obviously there have been a few kiss and make ups with Dave and Canadians. He threw tons of shade which was for the most part nonsensical drivel in his original version of recap of cdns in 2017. Besides putting down I/M quite stupidly and Sandra Bezic ridiculously he attacked Meagan's sister-in-law Julie Marcotte saying she was the worst choreographer ever and in Quebec people had to go to her(had no choice). Obviously he was fed poison from a furiously angry quebec pairs competitor who did not get the desired results from the competition and was spewing.Hopefully he will have digested that lesson on who to trust and to look at ulterior motives of people. I am sure his apologies were done on his knees as the segment was later edited and since then he has had both Sandra Bezic and now Meagan on his show.
 
My wife and I are reading the Dead Spin article right now. I am having a glass of cranberry juice and waiting for my pot pie to finish in the oven.

The article is very confusing! It seems that "Dave" would get hit 30,000 times a day in 2007! I wondered then if he was a professional boxer or kicker or even ninja but the article says he is not a professional. And he doesn't look like an athlete in that picture of him where he is bending over and holding something black.

Also, I do not understand what is the difference between a regular Mormon and a "fundamentalist Mormon." We live in New Mexico which is not too far from Utah but this is still a question I do not know the answer to!

And another thing, I wonder why Dave's hands were "shaking" when he was at a sushi restaurant. Is he afraid or Oriental foods or people? Was it a technique to use those eating sticks they have at Benihana's? I always ask for a fork and then my wife tells me I am a big worthless lazy clod and I've never been able to do anything she approves of with my hands!

So we do not spend a lot of time at Benihana's.

The article does not mention "Aunt Joyce." I am starting to think there is really no "Aunt Joyce" or else "Dave" is one of those people with multiple personalities. It scares me that one person could go by more than one name, let alone more then one personality!

I have lot more to say about this topic, but my pot pie is about to finish so I think I will move on to eating for the moment.
 
^^ :lol: :huh: :p

Has no one posted this men's Olympic event recap (It's mostly talk about tech issues, coaching and the top skaters, including Adam, Vincent, Nathan, Shoma, Hanyu, Javi, Patrick, Boyang). The guest recap commentator is Doug Haw, a Canadian coach who has dual Canadian/U.S. citizenship. Some fascinating tidbits here. I don't agree with everything, but the insights and background discussion is fascinating. Doug Haw knew Adam when he trained with Orser, and so he talks about Adam's struggles with the 3-axel, and why Adam has a lean in the air on the jump. It's a technique thing on the takeoff that causes it, but it's an adjustment factor on the technique that works for Adam. :) Haw says Adam knew he needed the triple-axel and he would do whatever it took to perfect it. He speaks highly of Adam's determination and drive. Haw also speaks briefly about Nathan's 3-axel but he doesn't have any insight on why Nathan has had problems with it. Haw says Nathan performed it perfectly in the Olympic fp, so he needs to review what he did and remember that approach and execution.

Lots of good discussion here, especially regarding jump technique. There's so much going on during this Olympics, it's going to take time to digest everything. The convo regarding Vincent having three coaches fighting over him is like very interesting in terms of seeing what happens going forward. Also, the stuff about whether Nathan will stay with Raf, and how Raf maybe let Nathan's mother call the shots re the changes in jump layout so he could keep the waters calm (Raf picking his fights), but now the family may wish to blame Raf for what happened in team event and individual sp. If that's all true, wow! It explains Raf's cryptic comment to Hersh: "It's complicated." I do agree with Lease that Raf really cares about Nathan. It would be so sad if Nathan leaves Raf for someone else after all Raf has done for him (and after Raf having to get Nathan back from Zoueva's clutches). All of this points out to me the cutthroat side and jockeying part of this sport behind-the-scenes. :eek:

Doug Haw stays diplomatic and out of the coaching speculation of course, because he's an active coach who has assisted Brian Orser (he's known Orser for years). Interesting discussion too from Haw about knowing Patrick at 7-years-old when he came to the Cricket Club with Osborn Colson. Haw says that Patrick even had a lot of trouble getting the double-axel, and he never got the foundational technique right, which led to problems with the triple-axel. Haw also said there were likely more problems for Patrick with all the coach changing, and getting too much different input on how to fix the axel, which didn't work for Patrick, obviously. This is worth listening to more than once. Doug Haw took a lot of notes on the performances, and as well on the individual judges' scores :COP: Whoa, blatant country politics in action.

Again, I could have done without Jonathan Beyer in this recap. Dave loves sucking up to Orser, Wilson and Wilson! Dave has everyone needing to go to Orser's camp. It will be interesting to see who Orser decides to pick for his next quad go-round, to join Jun Hwa Cha and Stephen Gogolev. Doug Haw says Orser never takes on more than he can handle, and so he chooses wisely the skaters he feels have potential. I think Orser is smart but there's also luck involved. He certainly helped guide Hanyu to manage his lack of endurance issues, and found a niche for Javi's limited artistic range. Still, why does everyone need to go to Orser? Oh well, everyone won't because he'll only pick who he wants to work with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NndStY5Rw
 
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barbarafan said:
Obviously there have been a few kiss and make ups with Dave and Canadians. He threw tons of shade which was for the most part nonsensical drivel in his original version of recap of cdns in 2017. Besides putting down I/M quite stupidly and Sandra Bezic ridiculously he attacked Meagan's sister-in-law Julie Marcotte saying she was the worst choreographer ever and in Quebec people had to go to her(had no choice). Obviously he was fed poison from a furiously angry quebec pairs competitor who did not get the desired results from the competition and was spewing.Hopefully he will have digested that lesson on who to trust and to look at ulterior motives of people. I am sure his apologies were done on his knees as the segment was later edited and since then he has had both Sandra Bezic and now Meagan on his show.
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Uh what????
 
Who has ever said anything bad about Sandra before. Some people you just have to watch out for the pocketknife whenever you approach them I guess.
 
Really enjoyed Doug Haw on the Men's recap. He provided great insight and had some great feedback about skaters situations.

The stuff about Nathan's mom was good, but the one line about Vincent's mom being blacklisted from coaches... I knew he had been blacklisted from the local coaches, but I thought since he had three (!) consistent coaches for at least a couple years now that that problem had been fixed.
 
I wonder how much of this will be confirmed... He spouts out so much that it's hard to know what's true and what's not.

Of course Dave and another person are using this as an opportunity to trash 7K...

I am happy that Tessa's not skating. I'm sure she's a nice person, but she never really seemed happy. The quote about Tessa I always remember is "other than figure skating, her favorite thing to do is memorize bible verses." Maybe it's just me, but if at 14 her favorite things were skating and memorizing bible verses, it's understandable why she would want to move on from one of them - and religion is much harder to move on from than a sport. Hopefully she'll use the time she would've been skating to do normal teenage things like public high school, prom, and going to the movies.
Before the season there was a rumor that she moved up to Senior because she wanted to go to the Olympics in Korea (however unrealistic that goal was). Maybe her parents were off put that she was so off the mark? Or maybe the whole family was only sticking with it until they had a shot at going to Korea for the Olympics because of their heritage and had no plans to continue past this season beforehand?
Edit: Just remembered that in 2014 Tessa Hong's family tried to file a grievance against a USFSA judge. Their grievance was dismissed as there was no wrongdoing. So maybe the family already had an issue with USFSA and skating in general?
 
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Awful awful awful to hear that one of the few morally up-right skaters in the US might have given up the sport! Tessa Hong was so expressive and dynamic and could show a range of different types of music so well. I think she could have been the next Nancy Kerrigan only more godly.

My wife and I will now have to root extra hard for Courtney Hicks and Timmy Dolenski, the pure spirits in skating when so many in this country have gone the other way, I'm talking to you Adam Rippon!
 
StasiyaGalustyanLove said:
Awful awful awful to hear that one of the few morally up-right skaters in the US might have given up the sport! Tessa Hong was so expressive and dynamic and could show a range of different types of music so well. I think she could have been the next Nancy Kerrigan only more godly.

My wife and I will now have to root extra hard for Courtney Hicks and Timmy Dolenski, the pure spirits in skating when so many in this country have gone the other way, I'm talking to you Adam Rippon!
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Maybe they can give a special Wonder Bible Award to your faves!
 
Willin said:
I wonder how much of this will be confirmed... He spouts out so much that it's hard to know what's true and what's not.

Of course Dave and another person are using this as an opportunity to trash 7K...

....
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In another example of high-class, hard-hitting journalism, one of Dave's Twitter followers who uses an obvious pseud posted that "7k is a scam." This same well-positioned and thoughtful individual hiding behind a fake account posted on Jordan Moeller's IG last month-- *Jordan Moeller*, FFS, not Jason, not Kori, not Rohene -- that Jordan's moving encounter with a homeless person was a sign from God that he needed to leave 7k. Because picking on Jordan Moeller is the sign of reasoned, thoughtful debate.... :scream:

Does Dave call out this person? Check out his posts? Heck no, today, when said account says 7k is a scam, Dave says "Tell me more":rolleyes:

It's not even at the level of "Bitchy Divas Dishing" anymore.....
 
I used to watch a ton of their interviews but I rarely watch anything they put out anymore. The show really misses Jenny, and they arent able to get as many good interviews anymore (although still impressive they even get as many as they do with how Dave how publicly thrashed many skaters and coaches) . I think the show is on its last legs and almost extinct personally but we will see.
 
Ladies 'Artistic' Recap is out with Tom Dickson providing his insightful commentary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2guyUpdSKXA

And a 'Technical' Recap of Ladies with Doug Haw helping out again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SETbonbZOhY

How is Dave managing to land some of these skating insiders? I suppose some people in the skating community like Dave's irreverence. I think he needs to rein things in a bit and work on being more professional. But still, I believe it's important to have someone providing provocative coverage that doesn't sweep everything under the rug.

There definitely needs to be more than status quo 'vanilla' coverage, although I don't agree with all of Dave's viewpoints and harsh commentary. Probably Dave is wangling guests of this caliber via Sandra Bezic's assistance. Sandra appears to be charmed by Dave and forgiving of his excesses.

Doug Haw feels that it's not as much about Karen's boot problems, as it is a problem with all her program changes this season ...

I'm still listening, starting with the technical recap first. :watch:

I love how Doug Haw is so good at gut-checking Dave's snark-mode. At about 10:40, Doug responds to Dave's thrashing of Tammy Gambill with these words: "I'm not here to criticize Tammy. I'm only here to give her support ..."

Thank you Doug Haw! But did Dave get that message?
 
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