Skating Coach Calls out "Poisonous" NBC Olympics Skating Commentary

[Simone411]

How was it "all about them"? I keep reading people saying that.
The one time I cringed was when Johnny said Toth's short program was "a nightmare," but in context, he was talking about her use of AC/DC, and he was not a fan. He wasn't talking about her skating. I still was bothered because they said nothing about her skating. But that was the one time. Here are some quotes NBC just posted:

FIGURE SKATING – NBC

Following are comments from play-by-play commentator Terry Gannon and analysts Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir on the three medal winners following tonight’s ladies’ free skate – Alina Zagitova (gold), Yevgenia Medvedeva (silver), and Kaetlyn Osmond (bronze).

Weir on Zagitova: “When she moved to Moscow at age 12 to train with her coaches, she had to learn to push herself. Now she’s pushing the entire world.”

Lipinski on Zagitova: “Her time is now. It was incredible from start to finish. For someone who just came on the senior team just this season, she skates like she’s been doing it for 10 years.”

Gannon on Zagitova: “It was absolute brilliance, even if it wasn’t how she drew it up.”

Lipinski on Zagitova: “She is like the Elon Musk of figure skating. She can see the things that have never been done before, and then she gets there and does them better and faster than anyone else.”

Lipinski on Medvedeva: “She delivered. She is so mentally tough. Alina Zagitova may have been stealing her thunder, but she’s not going down without a fight…no matter what, she skated as if to say ‘This is my time, not yours.’”

Gannon on Medvedeva: “I don’t know if we just watched gold, but I know we just watched greatness.”

Weir on Medvedeva and Zagitova: “Both of them are worthy champions of this Olympic Games. I felt the warmth and splendor of Medvedeva, I felt the calculated coolness of Zagitova. It’s an understatement to say they both deserved it.”

Weir on Medvedeva prior to the ladies’ free skate: “To quote Elizabeth Taylor, ‘Now is the time for guts and guile.’ Yevgenia Medvedeva has been the gold standard of figure skating for two whole years, which is pretty much unheard of. The only person she had to one-up was herself. A fire burns deep in her soul to be the Olympic ladies’ champion.”

Gannon on Osmond: “Kaetlyn Osmond brought her ‘A-game’ to the Olympics.”

Lipinski on Osmond: “That is how you fight for an Olympic podium. She brought that out.”

Weir on Osmond: “A swan has gotten her wings. Wow that was pleasing. The technique was beautiful and her style was excellent. It was all about putting it all together. That was the best I have ever seen her deliver a free skate.”

Weir on this year’s competition: “It was the most heartbreakingly beautiful ladies’ competition that I’ve ever seen.”

In addition, following are comments from Lipinski and Weir on Team USA’s Bradie Tennell, Karen Chen, and Mirai Nagasu.

Lipinski on Tennell: “Three and a half months ago, no one knew who Bradie Tennell was. Since then, she’s become a national champion and has skated in an Olympic team event. The pressure on Olympic ice is so intense, of course you might see her crack just a little bit.”

Weir on Chen: “There is a wonderful integrity to the performances Karen Chen gives…there were just too many technical mistakes.”

Lipinski on Nagasu: “That was definitely not the free skate she was hoping for…it’s just disappointing.”

Well, that was nice and all. But I would have loved to see them give more technical aspects of the skaters. With everything you've listed here, they're just gushing about the skaters and how awesome they were. As a non-skating fan, I would have loved more explanation about the kind of edges, footwork, the technical side of the how the jumps were landed ... whether it was an inside edge or outside edge. I admit I don't know much about the technical side of skating, and would have loved more of that.

I can do gushing and saying a program was awesome all day long. I can do that myself. That's why I really appreciated Tanith Belbin's commentary because she did explain such things where someone like me could understand better.

 

[giselle23]

Yes, true. What were some of the criticisms? The really mean ones, I mean.

I don't know. Ask the coach.

 

[Jayar]

Some viewers don't have another option.

Yes. I remember when I was forced to sit through Scott Hamilton's commentary if I wanted to watch Olympic figure skating.

 

[giselle23]

delete

 

[Justathoughtabl]

Well, that was nice and all. But I would have loved to see them give more technical aspects of the skaters. With everything you've listed here, they're just gushing about the skaters and how awesome they were. As a non-skating fan, I would have loved more explanation about the kind of edges, footwork, the technical side of the how the jumps were landed ... whether it was an inside edge or outside edge. I admit I don't know much about the technical side of skating, and would have loved more of that.

I can do gushing and saying a program was awesome all day long. I can do that myself. That's why I really appreciated Tanith Belbin's commentary because she did explain such things where someone like me could understand better.

So we've got "They're too negative and mean" vs "They gush about the skaters." And we've got "They talk too much" versus "I'd like to hear more about the technical aspects of the skating." Those are selected quotes, which I posted to show that yes, they are capable of being quite positive about the skaters, and that they do not always talk about themselves. In fact, they rarely talk about themselves. Further, they talk about the jumps quite a lot. They (especially Johnny) give explanations of why skaters fall, when a jump is underrotated and how to tell, when a jump is two footed, etc. Again, some of that is why some people think they're too negative...because they'll talk about the mistakes. Should they talk more about edges and spins? I'd love it. But Scott and Sandra didn't do that either. Perhaps NBC discourages it because they think viewers want to hear about the jumps. Or maybe T&J just don't do it and that's a flaw they have. Tanith was fantastic, but she doesn't need to spend limited time she has talking about jumps, because there are no jumps. So she has time to talk about footwork and things like that.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

I don't know. Ask the coach.

OK, I thought people here were saying they agreed with the coach. So I asked, "What kind of mean comments did you hear T&J say?"

 

[Karina1974]

I guess she isn't old enough to remember Dick Button's commentary.

 

[Karina1974]

I agree that I didn't think the commentary was really that bad. Just a lot of talking, reminding viewers of how the scores work, all of that. Dick Button really was much, much more critical back in the day. Remember, the 'fridge break' comment was about an American skater!.

That was Angela Nikodinov and, to be fair, aside from a textbook layback spin she was a very boring skater at the time he made the comment. She did a complete and total makeover for the 2000-2001 season that made her seem like a totally different skater, and the change was amazing.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Some viewers don't have another option.

I live for the ISU feed with zero commentary, unless it's Ted Barton of course.

(Where is that Maggie Smith gif from Sister Act where she says, 'Silence Begins Now!')

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Where is Ted Barton when we need him!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

That was Angela Nikodinov and, to be fair, aside from a textbook layback spin she was a very boring skater at the time he made the comment. She did a complete and total makeover for the 2000-2001 season that made her seem like a totally different skater, and the change was amazing.

Dick could be funny and knowledgeable. But he could also be such an asshole at times with his 'above it all' commentary.

 

[overedge]

OK, I thought people here were saying they agreed with the coach. So I asked, "What kind of mean comments did you hear T&J say?"

Well, for one thing they insulted Ivett Toth's AC/DC program music. Johnny said he didn't understand any of the lyrics and called it a "nightmare". I think Tara said it was "er, um, interesting". Nothing about how well she skated to it and what a great reaction it got from the audience.

If they didn't like the music, fine, but they could have said "It's not to my taste" or something diplomatic like that, and then given some analysis on the quality of the choreography, her skating, etc.

 

[overedge]

Who said anything about substantive proof? I don't have it. I'm speaking anecdotally, like everyone else here. And I don't think twitter would allow Johnny and Tara to stop people from making negative comments about them. Instagram, yes.

You can block posters on Twitter, so that if they respond to you or tag you in a Tweet, their responses or tagged posts don't show up in your feed.

And it's not anecdotal to say things like "they have been good for skating" or "people love them". Those are statements of fact. If they're your opinion you should make that clear.

 

[julieann]

I live for the ISU feed with zero commentary, unless it's Ted Barton of course.

(Where is that Maggie Smith gif from Sister Act where she says, 'Silence Begins Now!')

It wasn't until the last night I heard that if you turn off the center channel of the surround sound, the commentary is silenced. Too late for this competition, but good to know for next time!

 

[Justathoughtabl]

You can block posters on Twitter, so that if they respond to you or tag you in a Tweet, their responses or tagged posts don't show up in your feed.

And it's not anecdotal to say things like "they have been good for skating" or "people love them". Those are statements of fact. If they're your opinion you should make that clear.

I don't appreciate the condescension, Overedge. Listen, I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. That T&J might have blocked some negative twitter posts, thereby creating the illusion that more people love them than hate them? Perhaps. I guess we have no way of knowing.

I said my evidence was anecdotal, not my statements. I saw a lot of people saying positive things about them. I have no hard data about whether more people love them, dislike them, or are indifferent. That's what I mean. Do I get an A in fact and opinion now?

 

[Justathoughtabl]

Well, for one thing they insulted Ivett Toth's AC/DC program music. Johnny said he didn't understand any of the lyrics and called it a "nightmare". I think Tara said it was "er, um, interesting". Nothing about how well she skated to it and what a great reaction it got from the audience.

If they didn't like the music, fine, but they could have said "It's not to my taste" or something diplomatic like that, and then given some analysis on the quality of the choreography, her skating, etc.

Yup, I mentioned Toth in a previous post. Johnny called the music choice a nightmare (not the program). You are correct that they made a huge error in not talking about her skating. I didn't appreciate that either. But people have been referring to them as "cruel" and "mean." That's not cruel or mean. There's no cutting remark there. They said they don't like AC/DC. They didn't say they didn't like Toth.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

It was a nightmare. And it was either her or another skater where they remarked that sometimes skaters pick the wrong music, they see someone else skate it to it and they want to skate to that music too, but they aren't capable, the music is "too big for them", etc.

Sometimes Johnny and Tara are spot on but they are redundant and in their own little club so it comes off as the mean girls vibe. There's just too much of them, whereas if it were just one of them balanced out by someone else with a totally different approach it would be fine.

 

[once_upon]

Well, for one thing they insulted Ivett Toth's AC/DC program music. Johnny said he didn't understand any of the lyrics and called it a "nightmare". I think Tara said it was "er, um, interesting". Nothing about how well she skated to it and what a great reaction it got from the audience.

If they didn't like the music, fine, but they could have said "It's not to my taste" or something diplomatic like that, and then given some analysis on the quality of the choreography, her skating, etc.

If they didn't like the music or didn't think it was Olympic music - they made that comment a couple of times - they should keep it to themselves. Snark about it off camera but I don't care for the music comments, just commentate on the actual skating. Let us do the snark/mean comments

 

[goldberry99]

Nothing wrong with criticism as long as it is about the skating and in context. Criticizing the programs of Tarasova/Morozov because they hold them from their full potential is fine. Criticizing the program or costume of a skater who doesn’t have the ability to buy expensive costumes or hire top choreographers is not.

I think the WORST part of T&J is not the criticisms they made but how much stupid NON-skating crap they spend their time on. That will turn off the once every 4 years viewer more than anything else.

I don’t follow the Olympics, Tara, or Johnny but this tweet was in my feed on one of the last days of Oly competition because it was a promoted ad. It’s stupidity and lack of anything to do with skating speaks for itself.

How do Tara and Johnny prep for Primetime? Relaxation and facials.
https://mobile.twitter.com/nbcolympics/status/963587427221889024

 

[overedge]

I don't appreciate the condescension, Overedge. Listen, I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. That T&J might have blocked some negative twitter posts, thereby creating the illusion that more people love them than hate them? Perhaps. I guess we have no way of knowing.

I said my evidence was anecdotal, not my statements. I saw a lot of people saying positive things about them. I have no hard data about whether more people love them, dislike them, or are indifferent. That's what I mean. Do I get an A in fact and opinion now?

My point is that if you think J&T are good for the sport and are popular, you haven't really explained why we should believe that too.

You see people saying nice things on social media, but there's also posts like the ones quoted in this story:

https://bustedcoverage.com/2018/02/...vett-toth-ac-dc-video-photos-winter-olympics/

And if people can delete or hide social media posts they don't like, then social media isn't a reliable measure of opinion.

If J&T have been good for the sport - how? Are more people skating? Are more people watching skating broadcasts or going to skating shows? And if that's happening, how are those linked to what J&T are doing?

 

[Mattie2]

I didn't care for the NBC commentators "pushing" P/C as the second coming of JC. Tanith seemed to be one of the worst, and subsequently Tara and Johnny got on the same page, too. It was irritating. As a viewer I don't appreciate having my expectations manipulated. I just want to watch the performances and judge for my self. Commentary about technical items - success or failure - is helpful, but the other prop is nonsense. NBC's scheduling was bizarre - the split screens - switching channels, web page schedules that made my eyes burn to read and comprehend. Not too user friendly at all. As for Boyden's comments - yes, at times Tara and Johnny were too glib, but otoh I'm weary of hearing sugar coat commentary "everyone's a winner" yada, yada because that's false. The Olympics are a competition - this is not JV sports - there are few winners and a lot of losers and if egos, including coaches, cannot face that reality, that challenge, they should not be part of a country's Olympics team. The US Skating Federation has failed to develop emerging young talent and take on quality coaches. Like Canada, the US has relied too long on promoting/staying with its veterans and now they're caught with no one young in their stables, having coasted too long on past glories. Smaller nations may have less $, but more incentive/motivation to spotting and developing their nation's up and coming young athletes and driven for excellence coaches. Boyden's comments are suspect because she only focuses on outside forces and not the real problem which lies within the stale US Olympic Ice Skating organization.

 

[overedge]

Yup, I mentioned Toth in a previous post. Johnny called the music choice a nightmare (not the program). You are correct that they made a huge error in not talking about her skating. I didn't appreciate that either. But people have been referring to them as "cruel" and "mean." That's not cruel or mean. There's no cutting remark there. They said they don't like AC/DC. They didn't say they didn't like Toth.

Oh please. Calling a skater's music a "nightmare" isn't cruel or mean, or isn't rude to her? The music suited her performance, and she obviously enjoyed skating to it. If it wasn't to their tastes, that's not relevant to covering the event.

 

[cmk]

I loved Tara as a skater. I think she would be a better commentator if paired with someone other than Johny. I think Boitano would be a good commentator and wouldn't wear a poodle on his head

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

During their eligible years, many of Johnny and Tara's costume and music choices were um, ah, um....not to my taste.

The sad thing is, they would probably have disliked Stephanie Rosenthal's brilliant skates to Rocket & Ghost Dances, too.

 

[aftershocks]

... For example, some accuse T&J of being "ego-driven" and "making it all about them." You're saying Johnny SHOULD have talked about his own Olympic experiences. Well... which is it?...

Since I've never accused Johnny nor Tara of being 'ego-driven' you are asking the wrong person that question.

Sure they are damned if they do and damned if they don't in that they can't please all of the people all of the time, I understand they have to choose the approach that suits them. Right now, I think it's a bit uneven and sometimes it grates (i.e., Tara's voice). As I said, I believe they are limited in what they can do with NBC's ingrained take on figure skating, and they don't have relatable historical knowledge at their fingertips that might make for more thoughtful reflection, but that failing is true of all fs commentators since Dick Button is no longer on the scene. I think Tara and Johnny are actually better with their in-studio chats, Rio Olympics features, T&J podcast, Instagram, humorous riff clips, dog shows, Kentucky Derby, etc. And I mean that as a compliment.

On occasion Johnny has made self-deprecating asides about some of his past experiences as a skater. So no, he doesn't need to spend huge chunks of time making it all about him, but he could show a bit more empathy at times. There's a way to do that without dwelling on skating memories he'd rather forget. For me, it seems that T&J are taking more of a straight and narrow status quo approach for the most part, with their added humor and shtick. There's nothing wrong with that, although I do prefer Johnny's irreverent and spot-on 2012 U.S. Nationals men's commentary. Tara sucks up so much air in the booth that Johnny doesn't always have time to provide more thoughtful insights. I did see an attempt by T&J to readjust their approach slightly, perhaps in response to some critiques.

ETA: One of the ladies was skating to Dr. Zhivago and Johnny mentioned that fact expectantly. I was waiting for Terry or Tara to blithely observe about that being Johnny's famous 2003-2004 fp music, but they didn't. And Johnny let it drop too with pregnant pause.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

ETA: One of the ladies was skating to Dr. Zhivago and Johnny mentioned that fact expectantly. I was waiting for Terry or Tara to blithely observe about that being Johnny's famous 2003-2004 fp music, but they didn't. And Johnny let it drop too with pregnant pause.

See this is something I wouldn't mind him commenting on...not for the sake of name-dropping himself, but he could use his experience with his program to talk about what he sees with someone else's program skating to the same music.

In that respect, it would be improper to be overly critical. If he found something in the program questionable, a simple "that's interesting, ok" would be sufficient. But mostly it would be a good opportunity to point out some differences that he likes.

 

[aftershocks]

See this is something I wouldn't mind him commenting on...not for the sake of name-dropping himself, but he could use his experience with his program to talk about what he sees with someone else's program skating to the same music.

Exactly.

 

[icie]

Yes. I remember when I was forced to sit through Scott Hamilton's commentary if I wanted to watch Olympic figure skating.

When Scott was Olympic commentating you knew who he favored & who was going to be asked to be in his SOI shows.

 

[MacMadame]

I think the WORST part of T&J is not the criticisms they made but how much stupid NON-skating crap they spend their time on. That will turn off the once every 4 years viewer more than anything else.

They turned that viewer off so much that NBC asked them to be the commentators for the Closing Ceremonies.

 

[snoopy]

Yeah, that is proof right there Tara and Johnny were popular.

WRT skating commentary, I think it is too much about them but most viewers don’t like skating as much as we do so they like the extra “entertainment”. However, will be interesting to see the reviews of closing ceremonies. Expectations might be different.