Ice Dance's Problem: Not Enough Men (WSJ)

[barbk]

A rather strange article about the popularity of solo ice dance (which is apparently only popular in the US) -- but with this nugget about a former pewter medalist:

"Logan Giulietti-Schmitt, a coach in Dallas, travels to rinks across the U.S. to break the ice with solo skaters, accompanying them as they practice for and then take their tests.

His wife “thinks it’s kind of funny what I do,” says Mr. Giulietti-Schmitt, 32, who placed fourth with his ice-dance partner in the 2012 U.S. Figure Skating Championships. But, he says, “There’s a need for it.” Learning to skate with another person is an important skill, he says."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ice-dancing-has-a-problem-not-enough-men-1517590985

WSJ has a pretty solid paywall, so this may not be accessible.

 

[caseyedwards]

That’s what Scott Hamilton did! Helping the girls pass dance tests by being partner for them.

More American Boys must do dance. The program is so strong. You are talking world medals!!

 

[jmtfti]

Giulietti-Schmitt's wife previously worked in communications for U.S. Figure Skating, so that quote of his reads a little funny in itself.

 

[nimi]

A rather strange article about the popularity of solo ice dance (which is apparently only popular in the US)

This is interesting. Is synchro not popular in the US skating world? I come from a country where girls in figure skating outnumber boys probably 500:1 (like the girl in the video estimated lol) and that's probably part of the reason why we have many synchro teams and few ice dance teams.

WSJ has a pretty solid paywall, so this may not be accessible.

The article text wasn't accessible, but the video did play.

 

[caseyedwards]

This is interesting. Is synchro not popular in the US skating world? I come from a country where girls in figure skating outnumber boys probably 500:1 (like the girl in the video estimated lol) and that's probably part of the reason why we have many synchro teams and few ice dance teams.

The article text wasn't accessible, but the video did play.

Synchro has a growing popularity in the US! US has many world championship medals.

 

[Willin]

@nimi Synchro is very popular. The issue is that synchro is very competitive and in some places can get pretty catty. Rule changes that went into effect this year have also made it a lot harder for skaters to find teams and made some divisions a lot more competitive. In this country, and in the social classes that typically do skating, winning is everything - usually because winning can go on a college app to Harvard or Stanford; anything less can't. So you want to get into something that's less competitive. Solo dance is currently less competitive and has much looser rules test/age-wise, making it more popular.

Interestingly enough, the rise of solo dance and synchro are heavily tied. There's very few men that ice dance - so much so that there may only be 1-2 male partners do complete the tests with. Still, because it's so competitive to get on a good synchro team, many synchro skaters needed to take dance tests and many of them could find no partner to test with. If they did find a partner, it might be hard to figure out a practice schedule before the test or to agree on a test date/time. That meant to many of these girls it was impossible to take tests to help them improve their chances of getting on a better team. Because of that, USFSA began to trial solo dance tests and competitions, and a lot of those invited to that first solo dance competition were synchro skaters who tested dances. When that turned out well they made solo dance a thing and now more skaters are testing.

Beyond the synchro aspect, there's other advantages. Singles skaters - particularly on the East Coast and in Michigan (the West Coast has a severe lack of dance coaches) - are using solo dance to help improve their skating skills. USFSA and clubs make more money from more skaters taking more tests and competing more often. US Ice Dance gets a huge pool of very strong ice dancers that could be used in strategic partnerships if needed.

Personally, I know that I and a lot of other adult skaters love it. For adult skaters who started as adults, it's a great way to skate well into your later years or after your joints prevent you from jumping. For adult skaters like me who grew up skating, it adds a reason to stay in skating. While we've all stopped skating 10-20 hours a week due to getting jobs, graduate school, etc., it's still entirely possible to pass dances skating only 1-2 hours a week with one lesson - which is much more doable. It's much more that way now that we don't have a partner for tests whose schedule we need to coordinate with our own.

 

[overedge]

@barbk It's not that solo ice dance is "only popular in the US". There are a lot of skaters in other countries who don't have partners but are taking lessons and ice dance tests. The difference in the US is that USFS has done a lot better than other national federations in recognizing solo ice dance as an opportunity to keep skaters in the sport. And USFS has been smart enough to build on that opportunity by having solo ice dance competitions and other events that solo ice dancers can participate in.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Australia had introduced the option for skaters to do ice dance tests solo. If you do tests solo you will not be able to compete with a partner and would have to the tests with a partner.

My dance coach said one of the reasons he took up ice dance was to meet women

 

[Bunny Hop]

Solo ice dance is also very popular in the UK. They have dedicated competitions just for solo dance. It never appealed to me, but I can see why it might appeal to people who want to learn ice dance but can't find a partner or coach of the opposite gender. Having said that, there are adult skaters in the UK who competed in both solo and partnered ice dance (mainly men).

 

[purple skates]

Singles skaters - particularly on the East Coast and in Michigan (the West Coast has a severe lack of dance coaches) - are using solo dance to help improve their skating skills. USFSA and clubs make more money from more skaters taking more tests and competing more often. US Ice Dance gets a huge pool of very strong ice dancers that could be used in strategic partnerships if needed.

I was talking to my coach a while back about the solo dance series (he’s a former elite dancer), and he said that one of the challenges is that the “west” style of solo dance is currently being favored by the judges. That style is more about showmanship than excellent edgework. So it’s a challenge to coaches who think solo dance should be taught like partner dance with the emphasis on edgework and dance to balance with the judge’s emphasis on the presentation side because, of course, the student wants to do well in competition and the coach wants them to do well too - but it’s harder to have good edgework and showmanship than it is to have mediocre edgework and good showmanship.

 

[snoopy]

Can you not at least dance test with a partner if the same gender?

 

[purple skates]

@snoopy, in the US at least, yes. That was a change a few years ago.

 

[Willin]

I was talking to my coach a while back about the solo dance series (he’s a former elite dancer), and he said that one of the challenges is that the “west” style of solo dance is currently being favored by the judges. That style is more about showmanship than excellent edgework. So it’s a challenge to coaches who think solo dance should be taught like partner dance with the emphasis on edgework and dance to balance with the judge’s emphasis on the presentation side because, of course, the student wants to do well in competition and the coach wants them to do well too - but it’s harder to have good edgework and showmanship than it is to have mediocre edgework and good showmanship.

I think it depends on the coach and judging panel. Personally, my coach emphasized edgework more than anything else. I also doubt that the judges are favoring showmanship over edges unless your competitions get very different panels - I'm known for my showmanship, but I got bumped down to 3rd for one bad edge at a competition. Not to mention that a good amount of the medalists at Nationals for solo dance are from the East Coast or Midwest and a good amount of those at the bottom are from the West Coast - it seems as even as any other discipline.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Can you not at least dance test with a partner if the same gender?

Here you can test with a person of the same gender and they don't necessarily need to be a coach.

Roller has had solo dance for years and they really ran with it because of so many girls wanting to skate (they also still retain figures). I think it is more popular than even singles, pairs and partnered ice dance. Even the guys do it. They also have lots more pattern dances in competition than what ice does. And also have OSPs as part of the their competition. I once saw they did a Disco OSP. It was good fun.

 

[berthesghost]

OMG I want to do this. Had it been a known option 20 years ago I would have been so on it!
Thanks for sharing.

One suggestion: I know the thread titled is just repeating the stupid, lame article title, but you may want to change it. I skipped over the thread several times because really, an article about lack of men in ice dance? What next, an article about how the sun rises every morning? I'm so glad I finally gave it click and discovered this new sport exists. And not to rant too much, but the title also makes it seem like singles dance is an act of desperation, like an imaginary boyfriend, when really it's a legitimate, fun sport.

 

[MacMadame]

Still, because it's so competitive to get on a good synchro team, many synchro skaters needed to take dance tests and many of them could find no partner to test with. If they did find a partner, it might be hard to figure out a practice schedule before the test or to agree on a test date/time. That meant to many of these girls it was impossible to take tests to help them improve their chances of getting on a better team.

I took all my tests with my coach. You don't have to have a partner to test ice dances.

 

[Willin]

@MacMadame No, you don't need a partner, but you need to find someone willing to partner you for your test. Many coaches do not partner for tests - mine used to, but is now too old to. That means that you would have to get one of the 1-2 coaches in your general area who is willing to partner the test for you and coordinate your schedule with them, especially if they're at another rink than you skate at.

 

[Bunny Hop]

Can you not at least dance test with a partner if the same gender?

Yes. My husband had to test with his much shorter, male, coach when the other skater who was meant to partner couldn’t make it at short notice. The judges were so busy laughing I am not sure they were actually paying attention.

 

[becca]

I am surprised some male skaters looking for money don't see potential of being rented as partner for tests

 

[purple skates]

I am surprised some male skaters looking for money don't see potential of being rented as partner for tests

Oh, they do. Clubs will fly them in. My coach told me that when he was younger, he’d fly across the country and take several dozen girls through tests. It’s good money, but extremely hard on the body.

 

[Tinami Amori]

there are hockey-playing humanoids/robots already in works... skating could be next.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rM30fI5SCo

... and a roller-skating robot CAN dance already..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRDjwG9a1uk

and skiing.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jesBT-xp1A

 

[purple skates]

@Tinami Amori, a robot wouldn’t work. Ice dance requires people to be very close and respond to each other’s movements.

 

[Tinami Amori]

@Tinami Amori, a robot wouldn’t work. Ice dance requires people to be very close and respond to each other’s movements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw-zeSp94Wg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_m56irWKeI

 

[Rukia]

Oh, they do. Clubs will fly them in. My coach told me that when he was younger, he’d fly across the country and take several dozen girls through tests. It’s good money, but extremely hard on the body.

My coach does this. He said he'll spend all day running people through tests. He doesn't love it necessarily, but he does love the money.

 

[purple skates]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw-zeSp94Wg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_m56irWKeI

No. Just no.

 

[gkelly]

If they made a robot that can do each pattern dance exactly the same way every time, then it would be up to the testers to match the robot. For better or worse.

 

[overedge]

My coach does this. He said he'll spend all day running people through tests. He doesn't love it necessarily, but he does love the money.

A lot of the male skaters at my club learned at least the first few levels of compulsory dances - even if they weren't ice dancers - so they could earn some money partnering girls on test days. That was also great because a lot of the girls taking the tests knew the guys already from skating on freeskate sessions with them, so they felt more relaxed and confident taking dance tests with them.

Sadly there are a lot fewer ice dancers in my area than there used to be, so most of the partners on test day now are the male coaches.

 

[purple skates]

My coach is relatively young, but the elite skating and the test partnering have taken a toll on his body.

 

[Willin]

@purple skates Yeah. Ice Dance in particular is awful for your knees. One former ice dancer I know had to quit competing (she only coaches now) because it caused nerve damage in her knees from all the knee bending.

 

[MacMadame]

That means that you would have to get one of the 1-2 coaches in your general area who is willing to partner the test for you and coordinate your schedule with them, especially if they're at another rink than you skate at.

When I skated, I had a male ice dance coach and in our area, there were quite a number of them and one main female ice dance coach. In general, the women took from the male coaches and vice versa. There were also skaters whose primary interest wasn't dance so they took from a different coach usually a woman. Those would partner with one of the male ice dance coaches or with a higher level ice dancers training in the area for the tests. They might skate together in a session earlier that day or just in the warm-up. The people they are testing with are good enough to adjust to them.

Anyway, sounds like there aren't as many dance coaches where you are. Or maybe not as many of them are guys?

P.S. Yeah, ice dance can be hard on the knees. I would sometimes get in my car after a lesson and my knees would be burning.