How Much of a Splatfest Will the Men's Olympic Freeskate Be?

[Fiero425]

Fine, he was mostly clean in 2006. His programs were still awful in 2006 and 2010 though.

Tell you the truth I haven't liked Evgeny's programs since the really old days of his SP, "Adagio" and LP's "Tribute To Nijinsky" and "Criminal St. Petersburg!"

 

[caseyedwards]

Plushenko 2010 fs was full of Plushenko personality and performance ability and all attempted jumps completed. Plushenko 2006 - no program and doubled jump.

 

[aftershocks]

Im already used to Olympic Men's event being a total let down
2006 = Everyone but Plushy was
2010 = Everyone including Plushy was...

Reminders:
2006 sp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3frkW4f7ok Genius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNW4h2wTmak Inventive, clean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aA87gcMEUY Gorgeous skater (even with the loss of concentration on last jumping pass)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1l46bYCoLQ a budding star in the making -- scroll to 4:00 for start

2006 fp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naDdt4vKtUI Musical, engaging, transitions to-die-for; he was always under-rated, yet he's still unforgettable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUoqEHQvYUQ artistic & good in a weak field; strategic attempt at a point-gathering quad in 2006 at that, even despite the fall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzhQkDlPCrU musical, sensitive; a fall & a fall-out on a quad but rated high enough for second; not on my highlight reel

And the 'Genius' did not show up in his fp, so a huge opportunity was lost

2010 sp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut5E027T7bs 3rd place but should have been 1st
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrlVscjMzQA Not at his peak, but should have landed in at least 4th; sadly, the coach didn't know how to not try and fix tech that wasn't broken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rmnRJGra5g not exciting I know, but clean & determined
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHq6n1Uz_i8 not on my highlight reel, but give the old guy some credit

2010 fp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMY4J6HQs8I again, good enough for at least 4th, not 6th!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQpZu3HDjpE who could ever forget these rad voids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJgGHIoawU same as sp, one note but clean & determined winner

Okay, Chan & Hanyu were letdowns in fp, but here's 2014 sp and fp performances that are definitely worthy of remembering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ucv7j-Zzz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmOUP7OdfRY

 

[MAXSwagg]

Both programs count. Do people forget Hanyu skated a perfect SP?

 

[DreamSkates]

I am going to try to remain positive and try to not hold my breath every time there is a jump of any kind in every program. Positive means, the gold medal winner had no splats.

 

[aftershocks]

As GPF shows (and indeed the entire GP season), skaters are dealing with a lot, especially due to the discipline's huge emphasis on quads. I'm not really convinced that the price of quads is worth it. I mean something is off with the balance of programs in general. Way too much physically over-taxing tech content is expected of skaters every time out. IMO, the sport is out-of-whack as a whole because it has lacked leadership for far too long. Most of all, the sport is disconnected from its history and its origins. But yeah, on it will continue in some fashion or other, faulty judging, splatty programs and all.

If any male skater happens to go clean in both programs at the Olympics, I think we can call it a miracle. If more than one male skater goes clean in both programs, it won't only be a miracle, it will rate as some kind of divine intervention from the Skate Gods.

Note to Mikhail Kolyada (re his comment about quads in the GPF fp press conference): Nope Mikhail, programs full of falls on quads and technical errors are not 'attractive.'

 

[aftershocks]

Both programs count. Do people forget Hanyu skated a perfect SP?

Yeah, it's the fps that tend to be remembered, since the fp either seals the deal or brings it all tumbling down, literally.

But it does pay to take a look back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KSzR7uVVkA Chan sp 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL6xSlZsSqQ Hanyu sp 2014

They both have different styles. Hanyu was fun to watch in a brilliant, rousing performance. I'm wowed by Hanyu's flow over the ice and his amazing technique on those gorgeous quads when he's on. Still, I think he could improve his extension and also work on improving his artistic range and understanding of the music. In this Olympic short, interpreting the rock music is easier compared to other types of music that require a more nuanced understanding and expressiveness. And unfortunately ISU judges have consistently scored Hanyu (and Javi) especially on CO and IN, in ways that tell them they have nothing to work on artistically, which clearly isn't true.

Again, Patrick's style is very different from Hanyu's. Also, Patrick had a minor step-out on his 3-axel in 2014 Olympic sp (3-axel has been Patrick's more difficult jump to master). Still, Patrick has the best SS, and IMO, the best line, extension, and expressive feel for the music in direct comparison to Hanyu. The 3-axel step-out had Patrick in second going into the fp. Of course, Hanyu made mistakes in his fp, and Patrick had the advantage and the opportunity, skating after Hanyu in the fp, to totally win OGM. It was Patrick's for the taking, and he faltered. The gold escaped Patrick's reach, on a silver platter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__vz4p0uge4 Hanyu 2014 fp (JWeir unsurprisingly rooting for Hanyu; at one point, Tara's commentary seems to jinx Patrick, who had yet to skate; but they both concede after Hanyu's two errors that the gold had fallen out of Hanyu's grasp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYZALf3vyqA (Was it too much pressure for Patrick, skating immediately after Hanyu? Patrick could have lived up to all the gift scores the judges had previously handed him with errors, by skating clean in this biggest moment of all)

ETA:
Here's an excerpt from a cool interview with Patrick on a Canadian talk show (he humorously discusses falling, etc -- with a fun clip from Blades of Glory):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3e6A1Tumvs

 

[SamuraiK]

Reminders:
2006 sp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3frkW4f7ok Genius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNW4h2wTmak Inventive, clean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aA87gcMEUY Gorgeous skater (even with the loss of concentration on last jumping pass)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1l46bYCoLQ a budding star in the making -- scroll to 4:00 for start

2006 fp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naDdt4vKtUI Musical, engaging, transitions to-die-for; he was always under-rated, yet he's still unforgettable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUoqEHQvYUQ artistic & good in a weak field; strategic attempt at a point-gathering quad in 2006 at that, even despite the fall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzhQkDlPCrU musical, sensitive; a fall & a fall-out on a quad but rated high enough for second; not on my highlight reel

And the 'Genius' did not show up in his fp, so a huge opportunity was lost

2010 sp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut5E027T7bs 3rd place but should have been 1st
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrlVscjMzQA Not at his peak, but should have landed in at least 4th; sadly, the coach didn't know how to not try and fix tech that wasn't broken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rmnRJGra5g not exciting I know, but clean & determined
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHq6n1Uz_i8 not on my highlight reel, but give the old guy some credit

2010 fp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMY4J6HQs8I again, good enough for at least 4th, not 6th!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQpZu3HDjpE who could ever forget these rad voids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJgGHIoawU same as sp, one note but clean & determined winner

Okay, Chan & Hanyu were letdowns in fp, but here's 2014 sp and fp performances that are definitely worthy of remembering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ucv7j-Zzz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmOUP7OdfRY

. We all know there are two programs but The thread title is about the LP
The short programs as some have already mentioned tend to go well but the men then implode in the long. I agree its time to reschedule giving the guys at least one day of break between events.

As for your actual LP reminders:
2006: Only Savoie would count. Buttle splatting his way onto the podium and Lambiel with a performance he himself has admitted didn't thought was medal worthy definetly do not count.

2010: Only Weir counts. Lysacek is the most forgettable OGM perofrmance ever and im not even a Evan hater. As for Schultheiss , he was fine but the fact you had to scroll down to a 1st group performance says it all.

2014: Denis Ten was the only saving grace of that LP evening. The exception that confirms the rule.

 

[Fiero425]

. We all know there are two programs but The thread title is about the LP
The short programs as some have already mentioned tend to go well but the men then implode in the long. I agree its time to reschedule giving the guys at least one day of break between events.

As for your actual LP reminders:
2006: Only Savoie would count. Buttle splatting his way onto the podium and Lambiel with a performance he himself has admitted didn't thought was medal worthy definitely do not count.

2010: Only Weir counts. Lysacek is the most forgettable OGM performance ever and im not even a Evan hater. As for Schultheiss, he was fine but the fact you had to scroll down to a 1st group performance says it all.

2014: Denis Ten was the only saving grace of that LP evening. The exception that confirms the rule.

Ten's performance had to be great coming all the way back from 9th or 10th after the SP to get a Bronze in the Sochi Olympics in 2014!

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Of course, but that low placement in the sp was partly because the judges were not in his corner. Ten's mistake was not that egregious in the sp. Ten arguably should have won 2013 Worlds. Even though Ten accepted the 2013 silver medal result, many in the skating world did not. The famous petition seemingly riled TPTB and IMHO, unfortunately there was some backlash against D10. Therefore, it was nice to see him battle back strongly in the fp to grab a 2014 Olympic medal. Currently D10s physical problems, among other setbacks, are hampering his ability to skate well. But D10 is still such a gorgeous skater artistically.

Yeah, like I said @SamuraiK, just some reminders, because it's easy to over-generalize and forget details of what actually happened at every Olympics.

ITA re your assessments of Buttle, Lamby, and Evan, except that I'd forgotten how good Lamby was in the sp in 2006. Lamby rarely skated clean in any case, but he was always interesting and creative. Buttle was gutsy going for the quad in 2006. JWeir clearly missed the boat as well as the bus in being too immature and undisciplined (especially in 2006) to take full advantage of his extraordinary talents. JWeir had been filmed at an early point in his career landing a gorgeous quad-triple combo in a training practice, but he never attempted the quad at any strategic point in his early career, when he had a very good chance of landing it.

The first skater I always think of re 2006 Olympics, is Matt Savoie -- such lovely programs. And then I always remember JWeir's The Swan, but more and more sadly because he definitely could have been on the 2006 Olympic podium. He just somehow never took full hold of his talent consistently. Johnny was absolutely amazing at his peak with such erect posture, a textbook perfect 3-axel, and superb flow-out on his landings. Added to that, extraordinarily smooth moves over the ice, and a creatively unique way of expressing himself. He inspired a lot of people, skaters and fans alike. Of course, admidst the controversies and the way a lot of people loved bashing him, for some in the skating world, Johnny's talent became secondary. He tried to stay true to himself, but he made some faulty choices (re coaching decisions, training issues, career strategy, etc). Thus, he ultimately did not fully live up to his talent. However, despite the judges keeping him in 6th at 2010 Olympics, Johnny did himself proud because he worked hard just to make those Olympics. Some in US fed would have preferred to leave him off the 2010 team.

Watching Adrian's straitjacket-inspired voids to his fp music in 2010, still sends chills up my spine.

 

[Vagabond]

Lysacek is the most forgettable OGM perofrmance ever

You have got him mixed up with Ondrej Nepela.

 

[SamuraiK]

You have got him mixed up with Ondrej Nepela.

I knew someone would mention Nepela but I haven't mixed them. I'd still watch Ondrej over Lysacek (his 2010 programs at least, I enjoyed some of his earlier stuff) any day.

 

[aftershocks]

Hmmm, I couldn't find Nepala's 1972 Olympics performance. Here's Nepala at 1971 World championships fp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i3weUGiSiU technically good, but not artistically superior

 

[Amantide]

2010: Only Weir counts. Lysacek is the most forgettable OGM perofrmance ever and im not even a Evan hater.

He skated very well. It's just that he lacked charisma, IMO.

 

[bardtoob]

Remember, the 2006 Olympics was a huge mess with the exception of Plushenko who was clean with quads and difficult combos but people criticized his programs for not having much in it. Sound familiar?

Hmmm . . .

I don't think anybody criticized Plushenko for winning in 2006. He was the best by far. The only criticism Plushenko received in 2006 was that he lacked connection to the music . . . but the IJS was still new and still does not reward skaters adequately for connection to the music.

 

[briancoogaert]

It can't be worse than 1992 Olympics !

 

[SmallFairy]

You have got him mixed up with Ondrej Nepela.

Heeeey, lay off Nepela!!

 

[SmallFairy]

It can't be worse than 1992 Olympics !

I approve of Petr Barna's skull outfit though. #czechmen

 

[Vagabond]

Heeeey, lay off Nepela!!

And here is his Free Skate from 1972 Europeans. I'm pretty sure it's just as forgettable as what he did in Sapporo, but I have forgotten that performance.

 

[VGThuy]

Hmmm . . .

I don't think anybody criticized Plushenko for winning in 2006. He was the best by far. The only criticism Plushenko received in 2006 was that he lacked connection to the music . . . but the IJS was still new and still does not reward skaters adequately for connection to the music.

I remember that time differently, but we all have different experiences.

 

[bardtoob]

I remember that time differently, but we all have different experiences.

What is most vivid to me is that Johnny Weir scored an 80 for his SP while Plushy got a 90 and the fact of the matter is that Plushy had a quad and Johnny did not ... Enough said.

 

[VGThuy]

What is most vivid to me is that Johnny Weir scored an 80 for his SP while Plushy got a 90 and the fact of the matter is that Plushy has a quad and Johnny did not ... Enough said.

I don't know why you felt the need to fight me on this. I never said anything about Johnny Weir or anything about Plush not deserving to win as he obviously deserved to win. However, I do remember many people talking about his PCS and how empty his programs were even in 2006 standards. It didn't matter though because nobody skated as well as he did across both the SP and LP in terms of landing his jumps. One can recognize a deserving winner and still criticize that winner. Look at Lysaceck (though there's more debate about whether his win was deserved). We're both long-term members on this forum and were posting here during that time, so we both have our memories of what we all were talking about during the 2006 Olympics.

 

[bardtoob]

I don't know why you felt the need to fight me on this.

We're both long-term members on this forum and were posting here during that time, so we both have our memories of what we all were talking about during the 2006 Olympics.

I accept your experience and memory as valid. I intended a discussion, not a fight.

 

[VGThuy]

I accept your experience and memory as valid. I intended a discussion, not a fight.

My apologies. You're right that Plushenko was the only one with a quad who skated like a champion and Weir coming in second in the SP was a nice surprise.

 

[bardtoob]

However, I do remember many people talking about his PCS and how empty his programs were even in 2006 standards.

You're right that Plushenko was the only one with a quad who skated like a champion and Weir coming in second in the SP was a nice surprise.

And you are right that people were saying Plushy's PCS was too high.

 

[Fiero425]

My apologies. You're right that Plushenko was the only one with a quad who skated like a champion and Weir coming in second in the SP was a nice surprise.

Weir's performance was quite elegant with a lot of grace to Swan Lake! He was brilliant in the SP, but it all came crashing down in the long; might have been injured! Plushenko was pretty much all alone at the top and I had no fear of him losing it!

 

[SmallFairy]

And here is his Free Skate from 1972 Europeans. I'm pretty sure it's just as forgettable as what he did in Sapporo, but I have forgotten that performance.

Your bad
And I know @floskate agrees with me

 

[missing]

Philip Hersh weighs in on the topic.

 

[ninjapirate]

I do think they should experiment with limiting quads during either the Grand Prix series or the Euros/4CC/Worlds. I'd have one be limited and the other one uncapped. I'd also increase the 2nd half bonus for quads to 20-25% and limit that to 2 quads. A fall on a quad in the 2nd half is less of a downer than a fall on a quad as the first jump.

 

[VGThuy]

Weren't men just as inconsistent when they weren't attempting 3-5 quads in a program? I think that's not the best argument to make. I do think the imbalance and ultra focus on jumping passes that distract from the program is a pretty good one though.