Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir # 47: Come What May...

[pani]

Good luck, Tessa and Scott in SD! Hope they will show clean emotion perfomance tomorrow! And will they use new costumes?
And we become so close to OG and there last perfomance This two changed the face of this sport, so nothing to prove, just enjoy yourselvs!

 

[Alilou]

I appreciate that this piece was produced by a Canadian outlet for Canadian audiences. Even so, there are parts of it that are just beyond the pale.

I love Virtue and Moir's skating, but the shade-throwing and air of entitlement in that video make it hard to root for them.

What did they say that you thought was shade-throwing? What did they say/do that made you think they had an air of entitlement? Seriously. I'm just curious, because I didn't get that at all and maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Zazy]

Where do you see shade-throwing and air of entitlement? Their response to the question about the "judging controversy" was very diplomatic. I understand that you probably wanted an outright denial that there was such a controversy. But, to be honest, I don't remember any athlete saying something like that (outright denying) when asked a similar question.
Do you know/remember someone?

D/W didn't when the US media were telling them how they were robbed at 2012 worlds.

I wish the media wouldn't do this. They know nothing about the sport and what's "fair", it's pure nationalism mixed with the laziness of thinking you know who deserves to win in a sport you watch once a year on TV. It also puts skaters in an impossible position. Do you really expect anyone to say "actually there was no controversy, our opponents were simply better than us, judging in ice dance is great and super-fair!" At the same time, anything short of that is seen as whining by some.

 

[skatfan]

What did they say that you thought was shade-throwing? What did they say/do that made you think they had an air of entitlement? Seriously. I'm just curious, because I didn't get that at all and maybe I'm missing something.

It felt strange as though they were being coy about avoiding saying the Fix was in for the Americans. When it was more that Davis/White had the momentum like V/M had in 2010. I actually thought V/M outskated Davis/White in the SD for the dance event, but they hadn’t skated that program that well before and didn’t get the marks. But to say that this was some kind of special controversy vs the way Dance gets judged seems a stretch. And now for Scott to say its better now? Ok, not sure how once judges that.

 

[Zazy]

but they hadn’t skated that program that well before and didn’t get the marks.

Not sure how you can say that. In some ways V/M's GPF SD was even better than the one at the Olympics. When I saw the marks they got for that performance (vs a rough skate from D/W) it was obvious any competition for Olympic gold was over. I can't imagine how disheartening it has to be knowing the judges have already made up their minds and there's nothing you can do. Certainly not a unique situation in ice dance but that doesn't make it OK.

Obviously here the "controversy" is just journalists trying to find a nationalist angle. It's not like V/M were itching to bring this up again, you could see them squirming trying to answer as diplomatically as possible. But even then the journalist kept pressing them until she got the answer she wanted.

And I'm going to share this gem of passive-aggressiveness, not as a criticism of D/W but to show that when skaters feel they've been robbed and the media keeps pressing them to say that they've been robbed, you're not going to end up with an outright denial. It's natural and to expect skaters to be unfeeling robots isn't realistic.

And now for Scott to say its better now? Ok, not sure how once judges that.

Well, the way the question was asked it was either judging is as corrupt as ever or it's now better than it was. Kind of a no-win situation no matter the answer. But I would guess he thinks that this year they have a shot at gold depending on how they skate while in Sochi it was already decided.

 

[Jeanne7]

@Zazy - thanks for a very reasoned post. Yup, the article you shared is just so biased, LOL, and DW were pressed to go along with the narrative of the article. But Sochi was allegedly already decided, according to info leaked to L'equipe Mag., France. It wasn't as though Scott or the Canadian team just made it up. It must have been very unsettling despite T/S staying in their bubble.

 

[skatfan]

Not sure how you can say that. In some ways V/M's GPF SD was even better than the one at the Olympics. When I saw the marks they got for that performance (vs a rough skate from D/W) it was obvious any competition for Olympic gold was over. I can't imagine how disheartening it has to be knowing the judges have already made up their minds and there's nothing you can do. Certainly not a unique situation in ice dance but that doesn't make it OK.

Don't remember the GPF that year (who remembers the GPF???). I'm saying that D/W sailed through the fall with no visible errors, while V/M had issues in more than one event. D/W had the momentum. I agree how disheartening it had to be at the Olys - like I said, I agree that V/M did better.

Obviously here the "controversy" is just journalists trying to find a nationalist angle. It's not like V/M were itching to bring this up again, you could see them squirming trying to answer as diplomatically as possible. But even then the journalist kept pressing them until she got the answer she wanted.

Which is why I felt icky at it.

And I'm going to share this gem of passive-aggressiveness, not as a criticism of D/W but to show that when skaters feel they've been robbed and the media keeps pressing them to say that they've been robbed, you're not going to end up with an outright denial. It's natural and to expect skaters to be unfeeling robots isn't realistic.

Listen, I didn't say everyone is perfect or should be. The question was why folks felt this interview had issues. It did for me. Other interviews have too.

Well, the way the question was asked it was either judging is as corrupt as ever or it's now better than it was. Kind of a no-win situation no matter the answer. But I would guess he thinks that this year they have a shot at gold depending on how they skate while in Sochi it was already decided.

Just because they have a shot this time is not an indication, in and of itself that corruption is any better or worse. It could simply mean that they are on the better side of how Dance gets scored this time. V/M are skating miles better this fall than they did in the Fall of 2013. Personally, I think that is why they have a shot. Consistency in performances will give you the shot. Nothing about that has really changed in Dance.

I wish them the best - they are truly outstanding athletes, and I hope that they can pull out two terrific performances in Korea, I hope the French do as well. It will be fascinating to see how it turns out!

 

[arakwafan2006]

Omg I’m at the gym and i can’t concentrate waiting on the dance.

Btw, yikes for the pairs and men

 

[arakwafan2006]

Shit..

 

[Andora]

I'm fairly mystified at their marks?

 

[lauravvv]

Shit..

Yes, I was hoping for a different and better result. I was not able to watch the SD (am at work). Were they really off compared to the their previous competitions as some people on the Golden Skate SD thread are saying?

 

[IoanaC]

Yes, I was hoping for a different and better result. I was not able to watch the SD (am at work). Were they really off compared to the their previous competitions as some people on the Golden Skate SD thread are saying?

No, they absolutely were not. It was a very intense, commited performance.

 

[taylor1973]

No, they absolutely were not. It was a very intense, commited performance.

Absolutely not! It was fantastac!

 

[marbri]

I thought they killed it and you can tell with these two when they are happy with their skates. Both they and Patrice looked a bit confused when the mark came up but Scott seemed to shrug it off with an "oh well" so hopefully they just skate they FD as well as they did their SD and can be satisfied with that.

 

[alice73]

I'm usually just a lurker here but I couldn't help but comment today on the short dance. It must be heartbreaking for T/S to be losing to the French team on PCS. Not to take anything away from the French, but what they are dancing isn't Latin. And T/S are masters at Latin. No words... Don't know what the reason was for a slight loss on TES but they should've made up for it in spades on PCS. It was a great performance from Tessa and Scott.

 

[Goody2shoes]

Just watched their kill-it SD performance & post SD press conference. After the SD score reveal, well...no words. Not that I hadn't thought it might happen but when it actually did, my heart sank. More for v/m. It was a blow (so telling, looking at their body language and mood) at the press conference. I want them to skate to an equally (if not more) fantastic FD tomorrow. No more comments. I want to be positive, guys. Just not right now. Sorry to be such a bum.

 

[arakwafan2006]

Tessa said in a recent interview that as long as they did their best , it will be good enough. I don’t think another point could have been squeezed out. The lift got a +1 if i recall. It’s ambitious... anyhow, i was stunned by the marks. The Short Dance was the one phase i just knew they would win. Like i was literally in the shower standing there thinking “ what else can they do”.

They are so prepared. I’m choosing to enjoy them while they’re around. The French are the new Tessa and Scott. It’s rare that a team can be around to see the tides change in sport. It was tough for fans to watch V/M come and overtake the Russians and Italians and even French in Vancouver. Now, pap/Ciz are positioning themselves to do that. Guys, I’ll say this; the French are worthy victors. This isn’t Kostner trying to fend off jumping beans or Chan at his best fending off Boyang Jin. The French are glorious so if they have to lose to anyone in history, losing to the French is the best situation. Plus, NOTHING Tessa and Scott have accomplished can be taken away from them. Thank God for that!

 

[kittysk8ts]

They received a level 3 for the no touch step sequence. They usually get the highest mark for that. I've only watched on my phone so maybe I will see an issue when I watch on the larger screen but at first glance, it looked good to me.

Grrr.

 

[carpis]

I don't think they're gonna be happy. You can't be happy when you know it's not a fair competition. Look at Patrice in the KnC and look at them in the press conference. There's nothing they can do, this is gonna be awful for them. And it's not like Sochi it's worse. In 2013/2014 they where so inconsistent they lost all their chances to compete at the same level with DW. And I was ok with how Sochi turned out, even if they skated the best SD. But now how can you explain today's scores? look at the russian judge going hand in hand with the french one. It's crazy PC got higher PCS in the SD. Fine you like their style in the FD? give them all the 10s you want in performance and interpretation (not in the rest of the pcs scores though) but my god on the SD there's no competition. and they are not worthy winners or glorious. I'm ok with people loving they're style but that's it.

 

[marbri]

They received a level 3 for the no touch step sequence. They usually get the highest mark for that. I've only watched on my phone so maybe I will see an issue when I watch on the larger screen but at first glance, it looked good to me.

Grrr.

Every judge gave them +3 on that element as well. The only team to get +3 across the board for that element. I think that is why they and Patrice were confused when the marks came up, probably not expecting a missed level at that point. Will be interesting to know what the tech panel saw.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Every judge gave them +3 on that element as well. The only team to get +3 across the board for that element. I think that is why they and Patrice were confused when the marks came up, probably not expecting a missed level at that point. Will be interesting to know what the tech panel saw.

Righto. Let us know if you see/hear anything @marbri

 

[Isabelle.G]

Another brilliant performance. The gap is small - anything is possible for both teams on Saturday. What do you guys think about Tessa's new dress? I wish she went back to the dark one for the Olympics. But I may be the only one who isn't a fan of this change.

EDIT: Here's the press conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0D04yaB5Rs

 

[Lanie]

I think less than one point isn't much to worry about. Both teams sold the crap out of their programs and even though I don't like either SD it could go either way. We're so lucky we have so many wonderful dance teams to watch and so lucky V&M decided to come back too, so I decide to stay positive!

 

[skatfan]

V/M lost levels and had lower PCS - so it's a combination of the caller and the judges. I think the issue is not actual spread, but the psychological hit of finding out their SD, which they thought they'd win, has them behind. To my very unpracticed eye - it looked a bit frantic, and they didn't finish on time at the end. But what I know you can fit in a thimble, so there's that!
Each team has had a different trajectory. V/M came out at the beginning of the season with all guns blazing in the SD, while P/C's program started slower and has gotten better in terms of interpretation.

 

[Golden1]

Well, I'm mad as h... The judging is absolutely ridiculous and I also don't agree with the notion that the French are worthy winners. However, I just have to remind myself that that was the third to last SD that I will ever see from them, so I will try to enjoy watching it again without getting too angry at the judges. Hopefully a miracle will happen in the FD... one can hope, right?

 

[bbkenn]

V/M lost levels and had lower PCS - so it's a combination of the caller and the judges. I think the issue is not actual spread, but the psychological hit of finding out their SD, which they thought they'd win, has them behind. To my very unpracticed eye - it looked a bit frantic, and they didn't finish on time at the end. But what I know you can fit in a thimble, so there's that!
Each team has had a different trajectory. V/M came out at the beginning of the season with all guns blazing in the SD, while P/C's program started slower and has gotten better in terms of interpretation.

According to the PDF judging protocols, both had level 3's on the no-touch sequence, but the rest were level 4's, so I'm not sure what is so superior about the SD of P&C's. To me, it's the least Latin of all of the ones out there and Cizeron looks still so uncomfortable skating it whereas Gabby is awesome. I much prefer V&M because it's real ballroom.

 

[skatfan]

According to the PDF judging protocols, both had level 3's on the no-touch sequence, but the rest were level 4's, so I'm not sure what is so superior about the SD of P&C's. To me, it's the least Latin of all of the ones out there and Cizeron looks still so uncomfortable skating it whereas Gabby is awesome. I much prefer V&M because it's real ballroom.

Ah, I hadn't checked the protocols and was going on what I heard. Lesson learned!

 

[Anyasnake]

According to the PDF judging protocols, both had level 3's on the no-touch sequence, but the rest were level 4's, so I'm not sure what is so superior about the SD of P&C's. To me, it's the least Latin of all of the ones out there and Cizeron looks still so uncomfortable skating it whereas Gabby is awesome. I much prefer V&M because it's real ballroom.

P/C got better GOEs on twizzles, and most importantly on the Rumba pattern. 0.6 points more for P/C which would have made V/M almost win the SD.

Actually V/M had less GOEs on the pattern than Shibs for example. And just a row of +2s, including the Canadian judge. There is something that probaby went wrong that wasn't really caught on camera, maybe a bad edge on one of the chochtaw because at 1st on the TES box, they had one of their Key point unvalidated (Then it turned down to be a level4).

So it came done to who was the cleanest. Which is reassuring for both team to know that, if you skate the cleanest, you'll get your points. V/M have been much cleaner on the SD. I'll take their SCI SD as a reference for example.

 

[Zazy]

I thought Tessa was a little off today. Nothing terrible but they need to knock both programs out of the park to win. They should have more of a margin of error, IMO, but at least, unlike 2014, I think they have a chance.

I think less than one point isn't much to worry about. Both teams sold the crap out of their programs and even though I don't like either SD it could go either way. We're so lucky we have so many wonderful dance teams to watch and so lucky V&M decided to come back too, so I decide to stay positive!

The issue is that they have no chance of winning the FD unless P/C make a really costly mistake. Which isn't impossible but not that likely. If V/M finish withing a point in the FD, that'll be a great achievement.

Does anyone like Tessa's new dress? Because I hate it and I'm getting distracted from the skating by how terrible it is.
Not so much on its own but it really clashes with Scott's costume. I'm not sure why they keep trying to go for non-matching outfits for this program but it doesn't work at all.

 

[Amantide]

But now how can you explain today's scores? look at the russian judge going hand in hand with the french one.

I'm not sure why you're singling out these two though. The French judge isn't a suprise. Of course she will go with P&C, just like the CAN judge went with V&M. Although the french judge was a bit over-zealous against V&M, with that +1 GOE on the lift. The rest of the judges though pretty much were all on board with P&C as leaders. I think only the italian judge gave the same GOE's and the same PCS marks for both couples.