2018 Olympics - Qualification rules for singles, pairs, dance & Team event

[skatingguy]

Only other country that might be in the running that I can think of is the Ukraine - but they are in a similar position to the countries that @kwanfan1818 - probably qualify in two disciplines maybe a third if their lucky.

 

[Coco]

I wonder if Germany will want to compete in the team competition, or more specifically, if Aliojna and Bruno will want to compete in the team competition.

 

[skatingguy]

I wonder if Germany will want to compete in the team competition, or more specifically, if Aliojna and Bruno will want to compete in the team competition.

I think the answer is no, Aliona will not want to compete in the team event having not competed in the team event four years ago. The Germans will have two pairs teams but they are not in a position to challenge for a medal at this time since they don't have top level skaters in any other discipline so I could understand her position. That being said, getting a skate on Olympic ice for Bruno may not be bad thing because he doesn't have the experience that Aliona has (who does really?) so maybe they'll decide that doing the short program as a warm-up for the main event will be a good way to get the nerves out.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The second German Pairs team can compete in the TE SP on Olympic ice, if it won't be a positive for S/M, assuming the German NOC doesn't block sending them*. Qualifying doesn't mean having to skate, when there is more than one competitor, and whether Savchenko wants to do it is not the key. It's not like WTT, where to ensure a good show for the Japanese Fed, there are requirements for the top skaters to compete, if only on paper. If they qualify in three, the German Fed might want their competitors to have a SP practice run before the big events, to get used to ice and the crowds.

*ETA:. If there's a risk S/M might have to skate in the TE because of this, then the German Fed might pass. I doubt the NOC would allow a Dance team to be appointed for the SD, so they'd better qualify one for themselves.

Ukraine was one of the competitors in the Sochi TE, qualifying an individual spot in all four disciplines, but they've fallen off the map, except in Dance.

 

[Sylvia]

Ukraine was one of the competitors in the Sochi TE, qualifying an individual spot in all four disciplines, but they've fallen off the map, except in Dance.

Besides Alexandra NAZAROVA / Maxim NIKITIN (9th at 2017 Euros), both Ivan PAVLOV (14th at Euros) and Anna KHNYCHENKOVA (21st at Euros) have the minimums for Worlds.

Their young pair looked promising last season, but I assume injury is why Renata OGANESIAN / Mark BARDEI are not listed for Junior Worlds? They were 4th at Jr. Worlds last year but their ISU SB total score was 134 at the JGP in Dresden, followed by 124 and 10th/last in Senior at Golden Spin of Zagreb, and only 110.50 total at UKR Nationals on Dec. 21-23, 2016.

 

[Josh78]

According to both of their Wikipedia pages (and I DO realize, you have to take information on Wikipedia with a grain of salt, but this is all we have to go on right now) -- Renata's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renata_Ohanesian Mark's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Bardei -- they withdrew from Europeans after Renata was diagnosed with a "cardiovascular health problem" -- hopefully she can find the correct treatment and they can get back to where they once were!

 

[Sylvia]

^^^ Thanks for the heads up, @Josh78 - this is the source article in Ukrainian, dated January 16, linked in the footnote of the wiki article: http://www.ufsf.com.ua/novyny/22-no...pijski-aktsenti-evropejskogo-chempionatu.html
( Link to Google translation )

- Circumstances in which there was such a disappointing situation related to the state of health partnershi. In Renata found some problems - thankfully, not critical in cardiovascular system. Tomu doctors recommended doobstezhytysya [tests?], and then decide to participate in competitions. Under such conditions figure skating coach [Lilia Batutina] decided to give up their students performances at the European Championship. As for the rest of the starts, which had involved this sporty duo, then time will tell ... We hope that the athlete overcome their problems and Junior World Championships pair would be "in the ranks." It is also important to Renata and Mark were in the tournament "Bavaria of open" in February in Oberstdorf, providing the opportunity to gain tech. minimum required to participate in the World Championships in Helsinki. But, again, these issues must solve the coach.

As it turned out, O/B were not deemed ready and able to compete at the upcoming Junior Worlds or at the Bavarian Open last month (they are one point short of the Worlds minimum technical scores of 25 / 43 in both programs). Hopefully Renata's health/medical issues will be resolved satisfactorily and she will be able to return to training/competition next season.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Besides Alexandra NAZAROVA / Maxim NIKITIN (9th at 2017 Euros), both Ivan PAVLOV (14th at Euros) and Anna KHNYCHENKOVA (21st at Euros) have the minimums for Worlds.

With those results, Khnychenkova is going to have to overachieve by a mile to qualify. Pavlov has a chance -- Godorozha missed in London and qualified 5th at Nebelhorn -- most likely at Nebelhorn, with three Japanese Men, two each from Russia, US, Canada and Denis Ten likely to place above him in Helsinki -- but it's not like in the past where you could count on one skater in each of the four disciplines to qualify on their own, especially since Pairs has become more competitive. At least if South Korea doesn't qualify, the host assignment isn't a spot from the four available in Oberstdorf.

As it is, countries that normally would qualify two (and will for 2018 Worlds) might only get one spot, given that Russia, China, and Canada could earn three each, with the US, France, Italy, Germany, and even possibly the Czech Republic -- would they give one back? -- earning two by the 28-point-total formula.

 

[skatingguy]

I think the 16 spots for the Olympics qualified from the World Championships will be Canada (3), China (3), Russia (3), Germany (2), France (2) with the final spots being decided between the US & Italy. I think that one of either the US or Italy will qualify two spots to the 2018 World Championships but only one spot for the Olympics.

 

[fan]

I think the 16 spots for the Olympics qualified from the World Championships will be Canada (3), China (3), Russia (3), Germany (2), France (2) with the final spots being decided between the US & Italy. I think that one of either the US or Italy will qualify two spots to the 2018 World Championships but only one spot for the Olympics.

which discipline? men's?

 

[skatingguy]

which discipline? men's?

Sorry I was posting my thoughts as a continuation of @kwanfan1818 post about the outcome of the pairs event, hence the discussion of 16 spots and how difficult it will be for other countries to qualify a pairs team.

 

[tony]

I think the 16 spots for the Olympics qualified from the World Championships will be Canada (3), China (3), Russia (3), Germany (2), France (2) with the final spots being decided between the US & Italy. I think that one of either the US or Italy will qualify two spots to the 2018 World Championships but only one spot for the Olympics.

I'm fairly certain that if all of these countries qualify as you predict, as well as the USA and ITA each earning two spots for 2018 via 2017 Worlds, then 17 Olympic spots will be qualified from Worlds and only 3 will be available at Nebelhorn.

 

[Braulio]

I don't think that France will use those 2 spots, they well could give up one and send James/Cipres as their lone pair to Pyeongchang

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'm fairly certain that if all of these countries qualify as you predict, as well as the USA and ITA each earning two spots for 2018 via 2017 Worlds, then 17 Olympic spots will be qualified from Worlds and only 3 will be available at Nebelhorn.

That's not how the Special Regs describe it in Rule 400, Entries to the Olympic Winter Games:

Twenty-four (24) entries in the Ladies event and the Men event, sixteen (16)
entries in the Pairs event and nineteen (19) entries in the Ice Dance event will
be determined according to the classification outlined in paragraph 2 above.

For this purpose ISU Members who have earned the right for two (2) or three
(3) entries at the immediately preceding year’s World Senior Championships
earn the same right for the Olympic Winter Games and remaining ISU
Members are listed in order of their best placed Skater in the same World
Senior Championships. If the application of the above procedure results in
more than twenty-four (24) Ladies or Men, sixteen (16) Pairs, or nineteen
(19) Ice Dance Couples being eligible for direct entry, the last ISU Members
to reach the qualifying limit would not be permitted to enter a
Skater/Pair/Couple that would cause the limit to be exceeded.

I don't think that France will use those 2 spots, they well could give up one and send James/Cipres as their lone pair to Pyeongchang

And what will Gailhaguet get in return?

 

[misskarne]

I think that one of either the US or Italy will qualify two spots to the 2018 World Championships but only one spot for the Olympics.

?!

That's not how that works...

 

[kwanfan1818]

?!

That's not how that works...

Read the quote from the Special Regs in my post directly above yours, the part in bold and underlined.

 

[tony]

Read the quote from the Special Regs in my post directly above yours, the part in bold and underlined.

This is interesting. And if any countries actually do qualify additional spots and don't use them (hypothetical France), the USA and ITA still would retain one spot in order for 4 countries without entries to earn spots at Nebelhorn in a situation like the one discussed above.

If the Czech team is able to sneak into 10th place and above any Americans or Italians, everything is going to become a bigger mess. Not likely, but not impossible.

CAN CAN CAN CHN CHN CHN RUS RUS RUS FRA FRA GER GER CZE CZE - as an example - 15 spots.

Then the Americans and Italians would be fighting for whoever finishes in that 11th spot and then everyone else loses out (or until the other country is able to compete at Nebelhorn).

But what if this happens. Say the top ten is comprised of CAN CAN CAN CHN CHN RUS RUS RUS FRA GER - quite possible and comprising 13 of the 16 spots.

If the Americans finish something like 11th and 14th and the Italians 12th and 13th, this also brings up a situation. The wording says 'the last ISU members to reach the qualifying limit' -- is that the USA or Italy? Since neither is finishing in the top 10 in this situation, both teams would be needed to determine the spots qualified, and therefore Italy would technically 'reach' this first and earn the two spots while the USA would get one. At least that's how I would interpret it.

And moreover, with that wording of 'reach' coming into play, what if it's something like USA in 11th, ITA in 12th, and CZE in 13th? Would all three countries earn one spot only because the Czechs technically reached the entry before the second teams from USA and Italy factored in?

Extremely hypothetical, but I'm not sure the ISU knows what even to do in these situations.

 

[kwanfan1818]

There is no definition of "Last" and no reference to Top 10. For example, 1 and 14 vs. 11 + 12. If it means the last country to reach 28 or less, then 11 + 12 got there faster than 1 + 14 and gets the spot. If "Last" means the lower first placement, then 1+14 (or 1 + didn't make the FS) is ahead of 11 + 12.

The rules say that you can't qualify more at Nebelhorn. Depending on who loses a spot, I would expect a Decision of the Council to say if a spot opens up, then the top of the alternates list is the country who lost one because of the cut-off before those that qualified at Nebelhorn.

Then Gailhaguet can write his own ticket to the next ISU presidency.

 

[tony]

There is no definition of "Last" and no reference to Top 10. For example, 1 and 14 vs. 11 + 12. If it means the last country to reach 28 or less, then 11 + 12 got there faster than 1 + 14 and gets the spot. If "Last" means the lower first placement, then 1+14 (or 1 + didn't make the FS) is ahead of 11 + 12.

Well, any team finishing inside the top 10 are already qualifying (at least) two spots on their own. But it gets tricky when you go below 10th and need the combined placements of two teams to see if said teams did enough to earn two spots.

The rules say that you can't qualify more at Nebelhorn. Depending on who loses a spot, I would expect a Decision of the Council to say if a spot opens up, then the top of the alternates list is the country who lost one because of the cut-off before those that qualified at Nebelhorn.

I would hope so, but it sounds like they don't plan to do this. ie. when countries throw spots back into the pool after having qualified them (let's say-- Georgia), it never has gone to the 22nd place lady who just missed out on qualifying an Olympic spot but still made the free skate at Worlds.

 

[kwanfan1818]

It's never happened before that I know of, so it will be interesting to see what happens if it does.

Well, any team finishing inside the top 10 are already qualifying (at least) two spots on their own. But it gets tricky when you go below 10th and need the combined placements of two teams to see if said teams did enough to earn two spots

Again, there's no definition of "last" so they'll have to interpret it if it happens.

 

[mag]

Would someone please post the minimum score requirements for the Olympics. I know I have seen them but I can't seem to find them anywhere.

 

[Sylvia]

Would someone please post the minimum score requirements for the Olympics. I know I have seen them but I can't seem to find them anywhere.

The document linked in post #1 says the ISU Council will decide on the minimum scores and publish an ISU Communication at the beginning of the 2017-18 season.

(The minimum scores for the 2014 Olympics were the same as the Euros/4CC minimums.)

 

[kwanfan1818]

The TES minimums for the first Olympics that required them weren't a very high bar. Easy for the ISU to do, because the field limits are already established and more restrictive than the places at Worlds, for which the TES are much higher.

 

[skatingguy]

Team Event Qualification
Recalculated point totals after the Junior Worlds
Rank Country Total (places gained, points gained) (men,ladies,pairs,ice dance)
1. Russian Federation 3116 (0,0) (756,840,840,680)
2. Canada 2964 (0,0) (612,756,756,840)
3. United States of America 2772 (0,0) (840, 680, 496, 756)
4. France 2433 (0,0) (362,551,680,840)
5. Japan 2283 (0,0) (756,840,325,362)
5. People's Republic of China 2283 (0,0) (551,446,840,446)
7. Italy 2169 (0,0) (237,680,496,756)
8. Germany 1620 (0,0) (325,325,756,214)
9. Republic of Korea 1545 (0,155) (328,551,264,402)
10. Israel 1337 (0,1) (551,0,174,612)
11. Spain 1224 (0,147) (840,44,103,237)
12. Australia 1221 (+1,207) (293,214,500,214)
13. Belgium 1058 (-1,0) (612,446,0,0)
14. Czech Republic 823 (0,215) (264,113,446,215)
15. Great Britain 719 (0,0) (173,140,214,192)
16. Ukraine 678 (0,0) (214,102,0,173)
17. Slovakia 669 (0,0) (0,496,0,173)
18. Georgia 496 (+3,173) (496,0,0,173)
19. Latvia 572 (-1,0) (446,126,0,0)
20. Finland 532 (-1,0) (83,293,0,156)
21. Sweden 530 (-1,0) (293,237,0,0)
22. Armenia 492 (0,0) (102,264,0,126)
23. Hungary 470 (+4,68) (0,402,0,68)
24. Austria 454 (-1,0) (0,92,362,0)
25. Denmark 446 (-1,0) (0,0,0,446)
25. Uzbekistan 446 (-1,0) (446,0,0,0)
27. Belarus 438 (-1,0) (0,0,325,113)
28. Kazakhstan 402 (-1,0) (0,402,0,0)
28. Poland 402 (-1,0) (0,0,0,402)
30. Turkey 348 (0,55) (0,55,0,293)
31. Hong Kong - China 232 (+2,75) (92,215,0,0)
32. Estonia 284 (-1,0) (92,192,0,0)
33. Chinese Taipei 282 (-1,0) (126,156,0,0)
34 . Philippines 214 (0,0) (214,0,0,0)
35. Croatia 192 (0,0) (0,0,192,0)
35. Malaysia 192 (0,0) (192,0,0,0)
37. Switzerland 156 (0,0) (156,0,0,0)
38. Norway 149 (0,1) (75,74,0,0)
39. Lithuania 140 (0,0) (0,0,0,140)
40. Singapore 113 (0,0) (0,113,0,0)
41. Mexico 75 (-,75) (0,75,0,0)

 

[Seerek]

It will be interesting to see if Spain can qualify for the Team Event - they may have enough points to go ahead of Israel after Worlds, but will they meet the minimum number of individual disicplines qualified?

 

[misskarne]

WHEE, LOOK AT US GO!

 

[kwanfan1818]

Spain and Israel would need to qualify Ladies or Pairs in the individual events. While I don't doubt Chait's willingness to sell someone else's soul for a chance to be in the Israeli delegation, I'm not sure there's enough time for him to pull this off.

 

[fan]

What about Connors/the Jr pair? Will tkachenko have citizenship?

Spain and Israel would need to qualify Ladies or Pairs in the individual events. While I don't doubt Chait's willingness to sell someone else's soul for a chance to be in the Israeli delegation, I'm not sure there's enough time for him to pull this off.

 

[Chemistry66]

What about Connors/the Jr pair? Will tkachenko have citizenship?

As of this interview in January, Tobias/Tkachenko didn't have citizenship but they were working on it.

Paige Conners or Kops/Tsoglin qualifying isn't mathematically impossible, but it's still not very likely at this point in time without a lot of work. Krasnopolski could possibly have qualified if he could just keep a partner.

 

[misskarne]

^What's the chances of Tobias/Tkachenko getting it in time? Do they have a fast-track option for elite athletes like we do?