2018 Olympics - Qualification rules for singles, pairs, dance & Team event

skatingguy

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But they are the host nation... i thought the host nation gets automatic slots, or at least some automatic slots... so won't they have skaters in all events... thus have skater for the team event? It just gets complicated.
Here's the relevant regulations.
 The host country places will only be implemented if there are remaining places from the ten (10) Team event “Additional Athletes Quotas”.  If the Republic of Korea qualifies in all individual events (Ladies Single Skating, Men Single Skating, Pair Skating, Ice Dance), the host country places will not be applied.  In the case where the host country, the Republic of Korea, went through the normal qualification procedure and did not qualify for any or only for some of the individual events (Ladies Single Skating, Men Single Skating, Pair Skating, Ice Dance), the Republic of Korea will be allocated one host country place for the individual event(s). This means that the host country places would apply, if applicable, for one (1) skater in Ladies Single Skating and/or one (1) skater in Men Single Skating and/or one (1) Pair Skating couple and/or one (1) Ice Dance couple for a total maximum host country places of six (6) skaters. As mentioned above, such host country places will only be implemented if there are remaining places from the ten (10) Team event “Additional Athletes Quotas”.
 

Marco

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If Jun Hwa Cha is moving to senior next season, I'd be pretty confident he can grab a Men's spot for Korea at Nebelhorn. Min/Gamelin might be able to pull it off for Dance.

He'd better be moving to senior! He is by far the best man Korea has had in quite some time and is Korea's future. I fully expect to see him compete in PC.
 

kwanfan1818

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Worst case scenario for Korea is if they only qualify Ladies or Ladies and Men, and the TE participants use seven of the ten. Which would leave out either Dance or Pairs.

For Sochi, originally three were going to be used, GBR Man and JPN Pairs, but Takahashi/Mihara got into the individual event off the alternates list.

Among the likely or possibly to qualify beyond those who've qualified in all four -- RUS, CAN, USA, FRA, CHN, these countries are still working on qualification:

Japan: Pairs and Dance
*Italy: Men
Australia: Ladies, Pairs, Dance
*Germany: Dance
Spain: Ladies, Pairs
Israel: Ladies, Pairs

Korea: Men, Pairs, Dance

*Could compete with three or use the Additional Athletes Quota, if their NOC's agree

Wow, will there be ten members who qualify three?

The worst-case scenario for Korea would be not to qualify three, and for the five remaining teams to use nine, not seven, Additional Athletes Quota spots, leaving one for Korea, and Korea needing two for a team in the individual events.

Although if Righini skates for Italy, I think they'll qualify in Men, Australia will qualify in Pairs, and, hopefully, Ladies, and Japan will qualify in Dance at Nebelhorn, and maybe Pairs as well, so that it won't be as rough for Korea, if the don't qualify in three.
 

morqet

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http://static.isu.org/media/1022/pressreleaseowg18_qualifiers.pdf

ISU confirmation of who earned spots at Worlds.

Additional quota places will be available at the designated Olympic Qualifying competition Nebelhorn Trophy in Oberstdorf, Germany, in September 27 – 30, 2017: six for Men and Ladies, four for Pairs and five for Ice Dance. The host country Korea is guaranteed an extra spot per discipline if they do not qualify through the normal qualifying procedure (2017 World Championships and Olympic Qualifying competition). For example, if Korea does not qualify a Man in Oberstdorf, there will be 31 competitors at the Olympic Games in PyeongChang. Additional quota places may become available in case countries will not use spots and give them back.
 
D

Deleted member 19433

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So it's finally really official. Only 1 pair for the U.S. at the Olympics (and 2 for France).
 

Chemistry66

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362
Worst case scenario for Korea is if they only qualify Ladies or Ladies and Men, and the TE participants use seven of the ten. Which would leave out either Dance or Pairs.

For Sochi, originally three were going to be used, GBR Man and JPN Pairs, but Takahashi/Mihara got into the individual event off the alternates list.

Among the likely or possibly to qualify beyond those who've qualified in all four -- RUS, CAN, USA, FRA, CHN, these countries are still working on qualification:

Japan: Pairs and Dance
*Italy: Men
Australia: Ladies, Pairs, Dance
*Germany: Dance
Spain: Ladies, Pairs
Israel: Ladies, Pairs

Korea: Men, Pairs, Dance

*Could compete with three or use the Additional Athletes Quota, if their NOC's agree

Wow, will there be ten members who qualify three?

The worst-case scenario for Korea would be not to qualify three, and for the five remaining teams to use nine, not seven, Additional Athletes Quota spots, leaving one for Korea, and Korea needing two for a team in the individual events.

Although if Righini skates for Italy, I think they'll qualify in Men, Australia will qualify in Pairs, and, hopefully, Ladies, and Japan will qualify in Dance at Nebelhorn, and maybe Pairs as well, so that it won't be as rough for Korea, if the don't qualify in three.

Regarding qualifying 3 disciplines, there's something I'm wondering about.

Why does the ISU (in the Qualifying System document) specifically mention that countries can only use the Additional Athletes Quota for one discipline? If countries have to qualify 3 disciplines BEFORE taking advantage of the extra spot, they'd only even need to consider using one by default. Thus, specifying "only one" is kind of pointless.

Part of me is thinking that they say "only one" because maybe countries who qualify 2 disciplines through Worlds/Nebelhorn can obtain one (but not two) more discipline through Additional Athletes Quota, bringing them to three disciplines total. This would open the field a bit.

Of course, the ISU is not always completely clear on language and I may be reaching. But it just seems like an odd thing to specify if it'd be assumed by default.
 

Debbie S

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So even if France does not use its 2nd pairs spot, that spot would go up for grabs at Nebelhorn and not be given to the U.S.? Seems kind of unfair, since the U.S. did meet the criteria for 2 pairs (1 team in top 10). *shrug*
 

Chemistry66

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So even if France does not use its 2nd pairs spot, that spot would go up for grabs at Nebelhorn and not be given to the U.S.? Seems kind of unfair, since the U.S. did meet the criteria for 2 pairs (1 team in top 10). *shrug*

Yes, any unused spots from Worlds are reallocated to Nebelhorn. At least as of now, unless there's some sort of last minute appeal change (which is incredibly unlikely)
 

kwanfan1818

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Part of me is thinking that they say "only one" because maybe countries who qualify 2 disciplines through Worlds/Nebelhorn can obtain one (but not two) more discipline through Additional Athletes Quota, bringing them to three disciplines total. This would open the field a bit.
No. It doesn't matter where they qualify the disciplines, Worlds or Nebelhorn. There's no hierarchy, and qualifying at Nebelhorn has no impact on the TE or individual events.

If you're looking at ISU documents for clarity, conciseness, and consistency, you're looking on the wrong place.
 

Chemistry66

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No. It doesn't matter where they qualify the disciplines, Worlds or Nebelhorn. There's no hierarchy, and qualifying at Nebelhorn has no impact on the TE or individual events.

If you're looking at ISU documents for clarity, conciseness, and consistency, you're looking on the wrong place.

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that there was a hierarchy or that qualifying at Nebelhorn vs. qualifying at Worlds impacts the Team Event. What I was saying is that after Nebelhorn is over and all Men/Ladies/Pairs/Dance spots are allocated (regardless of if it's through Worlds or Nebelhorn), that the language seemed to suggest the "three disciplines" might be considered after including the Additional Athletes Quota spots rather than before.

I do agree that the language lacks clarity and consistency.
 

Sylvia

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(ETA: Sorry, just noticed this link was posted above by morqet yesterday.)

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...laces-for-the-xxiii-olympic-winter-games-2018

04 Apr 2017 - Helsinki, Finland

Twenty-four ISU Members have earned quota places for the XXIII Olympic Winter Games 2018 at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2017 in Helsinki. 24 places were available for Men’s and Ladies, 16 for Pairs and 19 for Ice Dance.

Australia: 1 Man
Belgium: 1 Lady
Canada: 2 Men, 3 Ladies, 3 Pairs, 3 Ice Dance couples
China: 2 Men, 1 Lady, 3 Pairs, 1 Ice Dance couple
Czech Republic: 1 Man
Denmark: 1 Ice Dance couple
France: 1 Man, 1 Lady, 2 Pairs, 2 Ice Dance couples
Georgia: 1 Man
Germany: 1 Man, 1 Lady, 2 Pairs
Hungary: 1 Lady
Israel: 2 Men, 1 Ice Dance couple
Italy: 2 Ladies, 2 Pairs, 2 Ice Dance couples
Japan: 3 Men, 2 Ladies
Kazakhstan: 1 Man, 2 Ladies
Korea: 2 Ladies
Latvia: 1 Man, 1 Lady
Poland: 1 Ice Dance couple
Russia: 2 Men, 3 Ladies, 3 Pairs, 2 Ice Dance couples
Slovak Republic: 1 Lady
Spain: 2 Men, 1 Ice Dance couple
Turkey: 1 Ice Dance couple
Ukraine: 1 Ice Dance couple
USA: 3 Men, 3 Ladies, 1 Pair, 3 Ice Dance couples
Uzbekistan: 1 Man

No Member has earned the maximum of three spots in each discipline. Canada has the most spots with three Ladies, Pairs, Ice Dance couples and two Men.

Additional quota places will be available at the designated Olympic Qualifying competition Nebelhorn Trophy in Oberstdorf, Germany, in September 27 – 30, 2017: six for Men and Ladies, four for Pairs and five for Ice Dance. The host country Korea is guaranteed an extra spot per discipline if they do not qualify through the normal qualifying procedure (2017 World Championships and Olympic Qualifying competition). For example, if Korea does not qualify a Man in Oberstdorf, there will be 31 competitors at the Olympic Games in PyeongChang. Additional quota places may become available in case countries will not use spots and give them back.
 

oubik

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Both of the CZE Ice Dance women are Canadians, although Kuzmichova might have/get citizenship through ancestry, but they look out of range, even if the Danes have to throw a spot back because she can't get citizenship. Unless Lane and Razgulajevs can pull off a miracle with them in the next five months.

Nicole (now Kuzmichova) was granted Czech citizenship in December 2016, so she and Alexander Sinicyn could skate in OWG. Cortney (Mansour) is working on hers too. If you se the WC country places Kuzmichova/Sinicyn were 6th country under the line and with Danes out their success is not that in the miracle part. EC shouldn't be a big factor as this was their first senior (biggest) competition and they have recieved nomination only 9 days before the EC has started.
It will be a tought battle on the Czech test skate between KuSi and ManCe (Mansour/Ceska - they have already started preparations for their next season comeback) for the Nebelhorn Trophy place and OWG Q. The same will go with the ladies qualifier between Hanzlikova, Brezinova and Ukolova. Duskova / Bidar are saved as being the only senior age couple in the Czech Republic.
 

kwanfan1818

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At World's, they were seven teams away from qualifying, and that's not even considering that it likely will be Comes/Buckland at Nebelhorn. Also, it isn't clear that the Danes will have to give back the spot. It will be very tough for them to qualify.

Without significant improvement/consistency, the Czech woman will have a big hill to climb.
 
S

SmallFairy

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Do you think UZB will use it's spot in men? Do they have another skater that meets the minimum?
 

Dobre

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At World's, they were seven teams away from qualifying, and that's not even considering that it likely will be Comes/Buckland at Nebelhorn. Also, it isn't clear that the Danes will have to give back the spot. It will be very tough for them to qualify.

It will. But if (and perhaps it is a big if) Mansour & Ceska were to compete for them, it would not be so tough. Not easy, but not so tough. (One would hope M&C will be able to compete for themselves).

If I were to rank all the bubble teams expected to be at Nebelhorn, based on this season's results, they would fall somewhere around the following:

Coomes & Buckland
Min & Gamelin
Lorenz & Polizoakis (Fear & Gibson finished just behind them at Worlds, should Coomes & Buckland not be healthy)
Muramoto & Reed (defeated Min & Gamelin at SA, definitely capable of better)
Mansour & Ceska
Mysliveckova & Csolley (depending on citizenship/her health)
Torn & Partanen
Garabedien & Proulx-Senecal (I don't believe anyone has answered my question about their citizenship status?)
Kuzmichova & Sinicyn (They were behind other teams at Europeans, but I think their Worlds placement is a decent reflection of their current status).

Coomes & Buckland will be a lock if they compete. But the rest of these teams have been up & down quite a bit this last season. Min & Gamelin weren't even at Worlds last year. Lorenz & Polizoakis dropped from 17th to 19th. Muramoto & Reed dropped from 15th to 23rd. Torn & Partanen dropped from 18th to 24th. So, really, throw all these teams into a competition in the fall with brand new programs. Who knows?
 

Chemistry66

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I thought that was one of the things that was very clear? There were a few interviews with them basically saying there's no way that Laurence will get citizenship.

Yes, there is pretty much no chance for Laurence to get citizenship. However, unlike Uzbekistan's lack of male skaters, there are a couple of Junior Danish ID teams. Whether they're old enough (since there's not much biographical data) or skilled enough (since their current best ISU TES scores were far short of even JWs TES) is in question. But there's not 0 other options. I'd expect Denmark to throw the spot back in, but kwanfan1818 is right in that it's not 100% clear.

It will. But if (and perhaps it is a big if) Mansour & Ceska were to compete for them, it would not be so tough. Not easy, but not so tough. (One would hope M&C will be able to compete for themselves).

If I were to rank all the bubble teams expected to be at Nebelhorn, based on this season's results, they would fall somewhere around the following:

Coomes & Buckland
Min & Gamelin
Lorenz & Polizoakis (Fear & Gibson finished just behind them at Worlds, should Coomes & Buckland not be healthy)
Muramoto & Reed (defeated Min & Gamelin at SA, definitely capable of better)
Mansour & Ceska
Mysliveckova & Csolley (depending on citizenship/her health)
Torn & Partanen
Garabedien & Proulx-Senecal (I don't believe anyone has answered my question about their citizenship status?)
Kuzmichova & Sinicyn (They were behind other teams at Europeans, but I think their Worlds placement is a decent reflection of their current status).

Coomes & Buckland will be a lock if they compete. But the rest of these teams have been up & down quite a bit this last season. Min & Gamelin weren't even at Worlds last year. Lorenz & Polizoakis dropped from 17th to 19th. Muramoto & Reed dropped from 15th to 23rd. Torn & Partanen dropped from 18th to 24th. So, really, throw all these teams into a competition in the fall with brand new programs. Who knows?

Min and Gamelin weren't at Worlds last year because they were a new team who got second at Korean Nationals to Kim/Minov, but their ISU PB score of 151.35 (from 2016 Tallinn Trophy) is 14 points higher than Kim/Minov's best. They may not be definitely getting a spot, but they're easily in the mix.

As for Garabedian/Proulx-Senecal, Tina has Armenian-Canadian dual citizenship. And Simon doesn't have confirmed citizenship yet, but given what I've read in a handful of Armenian news articles published about Tina's decision to skate for Armenia, it's probably in process if not done already. Also, via Armenia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs website, while there are specific requirements for citizenship in most cases, "Armenian citizenship can be awarded without any requirement to persons who have provided exceptional service to the Republic of Armenia."
 

Dobre

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Min and Gamelin weren't at Worlds last year because they were a new team who got second at Korean Nationals to Kim/Minov, but their ISU PB score of 151.35 (from 2016 Tallinn Trophy) is 14 points higher than Kim/Minov's best. They may not be definitely getting a spot, but they're easily in the mix.

Hence their ranking right after Coomes & Buckland on my list. That said, the scores at Tallinn Trophy . . .

There are 20 dance teams with a season's best from Tallinn Trophy this season. Only 21 teams competed in the event.

Min & Gamelin scored 144.69 at 4CCs, which I would say was a great skate and a much more accurate comparison. They scored 136.71 at Worlds, but that isn't very reflective of their potential as it counted a fall.
 

kwanfan1818

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I thought that was one of the things that was very clear? There were a few interviews with them basically saying there's no way that Laurence will get citizenship.
I did, too, but there was some speculation about Sorensen's FB post about being proud to have secured a spot for Denmark. Maybe that's the complete victory, because there are no other Senior Danish Dance teams, and the two junior teams are far away from the 4C's minimums in Jr. competition. There's no ISU bio info on Bertau/Musil, and only a 1998 birth date for the female Colmor Jepsen (born in Copenhagen). (I'm guessing the mail Colmor Jepsen is her brother.)
 

Skate Talker

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So I was playing the BBC vids of the WC Pairs Free toady and commentator Robin Cousins seemed to be saying that the potential qualifying teams from Nebelhorn would have to have better scores there than the scores obtained by non-qualifying countries at the Worlds in Helsinki. Robin says it's not about placement, it's about scores. (The comments start around the 5:30 mark of this video and continues for about a minute.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7uueNlpfZ0

Of course he also ended up concluding the Australian Pair team would probably qualify based on their performance at Worlds so I assume he was just talking through his ill-informed hat.
 

Eislauffan

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I thought that was one of the things that was very clear? There were a few interviews with them basically saying there's no way that Laurence will get citizenship.

I had asked Nikolaj Sörensen about that at Worlds and he said they still have hope that she might receive citizenship. Because denying her citizenship would also deny him, an original Danish citizen, to compete at the Olympic Games although they have earned a spot. I think this is the argumentation they want to use. So they have not given up yet.
 

Eislauffan

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Do you think UZB will use it's spot in men? Do they have another skater that meets the minimum?

Misha Ge still might change his mind and decide to continue or to go at least to the Olympic Games, who knows.
If not, any other decent man that hasn't competed in the past two years (or 12 months, depending on the citizenship status) internationally could go for it. ;-) I don't think citizenship would be a major problem. Someone mentioned Gachinski. That would be funny.
 

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