Evan Lysacek - the most underappreciated champion?

[MAXSwagg]

Loosing a little perspective here. I admire most of all the skaters you mentioned for different reasons. Lysacek was a regular medalist from 04, his first year in seniors, to 2010. Plenty of golds sprinkled in there. Not all years were great ones, but succeeded in coming back several times. I find that impressive in his case. Lambiel won some important medals but it was his use of the body - the line, the rotation - virtuosic, really, that showed what was possible. Joubert had a lot of success but like Evan, didn't add so much to the sport. Abbott's story we all know - good at home, disappointing abroad. I never look at Plushenko. I found his routines vapid, even cheesy. He was a great jumper and competitor. He was in it a long time. He was a great champion but not someone I much admire - taste, really. Any of these men are increadible talents with levels of success no one on this site is likely to know. Maybe it's fun to rank these very different skaters, skating in very different circumstances But, they were all great. None deserves to be cast out.

Except some have a greater legacy than others. What is Evan's legacy? You'd be hard-pressed to find one. Again, no one is disputing his success. But he's only memorable for being unmemorable (even if that is oxymoronic). Some skaters (like Takahashi) just have a bigger impact than others (like Evan). I don't know why the small group of Evan fans are getting so jumped up about it.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Do you remember of him only for that? Well, congrats! Where do you come from? He skated 18 years.. 2 Olympic golds, 2 silvers, 3WCH golds, 7 ECH golds, 10 Russian Champion titles, 4 GPF golds, 18 GP golds.. 1 JWCH gold, I didn't mention the silvers and bronzes...

Christ, lighten up.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Except some have a greater legacy than others. What is Evan's legacy? You'd be hard-pressed to find one. Again, no one is disputing his success. But he's only memorable for being unmemorable (even if that is oxymoronic). Some skaters (like Takahashi) just have a bigger impact than others (like Evan). I don't know why the small group of Evan fans are getting so jumped up about it.

Except some have a greater legacy than others. What is Evan's legacy? You'd be hard-pressed to find one. Again, no one is disputing his success. But he's only memorable for being unmemorable (even if that is oxymoronic). Some skaters (like Takahashi) just have a bigger impact than others (like Evan). I don't know why the small group of Evan fans are getting so jumped up about it.

How would you know, exactly, it's a small group of fans? No one here "jumped up", it seems, except Plushy fans still pissed off about 2010. If you mean pushing the technical and aesthetic boundaries of the sport, I would agree, he didn't - few do. For me he and Ashley are memorable for their perseverance which with their ability to perform under pressure makes they champions. I believe a large number of fans would include this quality in the their description of champion. Is it all right if I hold on to my own perspective on memorable-ness?

 

[bumblebeevich]

How would you know, exactly, it's a small group of fans? No one here "jumped up", it seems, except Plushy fans still pissed off about 2010.

That is your presumption. I hardly see any obvious Plushenko fans in this thread apart from lala. Just because someone doesnt find Lysacek awe inspiring or super memorable doesnt make them a Plushenko fan, LOL! Most non Plushenko fans dont find Evan all that memorable in the grand scale of things either.

I do agree on the Ashley comparision though, that is a good one. He is like a more successful but less stylish male version of Ashley Wagner. And for both that is their biggest legacy, perseverance, determination, never say die attitudes, and overachieving. Which is a compliment, far better to be an overachiever who maxed out and even exceeded what your natural talent was worth, than an underachiever after all.

 

[slipchuk]

Except some have a greater legacy than others. What is Evan's legacy? You'd be hard-pressed to find one. Again, no one is disputing his success. But he's only memorable for being unmemorable (even if that is oxymoronic). Some skaters (like Takahashi) just have a bigger impact than others (like Evan). I don't know why the small group of Evan fans are getting so jumped up about it.

Exactly, it is all pretty simple. Surprised this thread has even gotten as much discussion as it has when it is pretty straight forward and simple.

You dont see threads why or if Urmanov and Hughes are underappreciated, and I dont see how it is obvious how Evan isnt basically in the same boat as they are.

 

[Areski]

I see that discussion is more heated than I expected while creating this this threa d

I feared: Evan was boring, blah, blah, blah - END.

 

[Madhatter]

I see that discussion is more heated than I expected while creating this this threa d

I feared: Evan was boring, blah, blah, blah - END.

Evan IS rather boring. The most surprising about him is the fact that he managed to pull off a 9-page thread. Like, what's there to talk about? I don't get it.

 

[Areski]

Evan IS rather boring. The most surprising about him is the fact that he managed to pull off a 9-page thread. Like, what's there to talk about? I don't get it.

That's why I am surprised either. Yes, he was boring (for me as well), but I wanted to find what people think about him years after retirement. It pans out like I expected that he's indeed the least appreciated champion bar Urmanov. I thought though he (Evan) would be able to garner more popularity and would get more for being Olympic Champion from USA. I thought USA would use his success to promote sport bit more as well.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

Maybe he's not really interested in a legacy, in terms of keeping in touch with the skating world. I just looked and he hasn't posted to Twitter since 2015, and his IG is all about travel, fancy cars, private planes, and occasionally Vera Wang, who I think he works for now. Very little about skating at all. I wonder if he keeps up with what's going on competitively.

 

[Simone411]

Well as long as you are consistent that is fine. Obviously for you anyone who is a world medalist or a National Champion even is memorable by rule. That is fine, but many dont feel that way, most dont feel that way even. I am not even speaking to whether I consider Lysacek memorable or not, I consider him more memorable than Schuba or Poetzsch atleast (despite that as I said both achieved even tons more than he did). I just dont agree with the premise someone automaticaly is considered "memorable" since they are a World Champ, won a few combined World/Olympic medals, and lots of Four Continent medals which was your basis in your response regarding Evan. You would find the vast majority of people dont consider Schuba or Poetzsch memorable and they are Olympic Champs, multi World Champs, many time European Champs, who dominated or co dominated an entire quad.

Not necessarily. The skaters I mentioned were also memorable to me, but that's just my opinion and I'm not representing everyone on this planet because everyone on this planet has an individual mind. By no means are we like the Borg from Star Trek: The Next Generation.

You are correct by saying many don't feel that way, but then there are many who do feel that way. I can't think for anyone else but myself. When I watched Evan skate, I saw artistry and technical ability that I liked very much. Others may not have felt that way at all, and I can't make anyone change their mind about what they feel or observe because the fact is that we all are individuals with our own opinions. We like what we like, and we don't like what we don't like. It's as simple as that.

 

[Kecasyl]

Maybe he's not really interested in a legacy, in terms of keeping in touch with the skating world. I just looked and he hasn't posted to Twitter since 2015, and his IG is all about travel, fancy cars, private planes, and occasionally Vera Wang, who I think he works for now. Very little about skating at all. I wonder if he keeps up with what's going on competitively.

Yes he works with Vera Wang and keeps up with the skating world, I know he's considered coming back at a capacity of some sort to the skating world (coaching or something), because he does miss skating. Having to leave the sport not on your own terms would make you feel like you were missing something.

 

[VGThuy]

All of this negativity in this thread almost makes me want to re-watch Evan's programs and see if I underappreciated him. Almost.

 

[bardtoob]

By no means are we like the Borg from Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Resistance is futile

 

[lala]

Dont patronize and go into hyperbole. I am only speaking of Vancouver. only Plushenko deserved 99% of the medals he ever won. Sometimes his scores were ridiculous- eg 2003 and 2004 worlds, 2006 Olympics, but the end result was still correcdt. However his silver in Vancouver IMO just is one of those rare one he didnt. His program was empty, most of the elements were done but mediocre quality, and other than a weak quad landed on the toe pick there was little to write home about. The only reason I wasnt especialy annoyed was it was kind of a crummy event in general which is how a skater like Evan, without a quad no less, could ever become Olympic Champion.

Now I know you worship Plushenko, and for you he could come on the ice, fart 4 times, be given 5.9s and 6.0s and the gold medal and you would have no problem with it. To each their own.

Yes, I'm a big fan of Plushenko you know me and I know the Plush haters. . But if you read my comments I just reacted those posts what are nonsense as your post. I'm only a FS fan not an expert so I could write my personal opinions as you did. I know we are here because we want to know many news about FS and we want to write our personal opinions about FS, skaters, reasults, costumes etc. And there are many debates, of course
Two months ago was a debate I wrote many things in this matter and I used facts, details, experts' opinions, etc.
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...russia-with-love-25-autumn-2016.99463/page-27 #801 post.
I don't know how many informations you have in Vancouver debate, but that WAS a debate in many levels Plushenko was robbed or not.

 

[lala]

Christ, lighten up.

and vice versa..

 

[Simone411]

Resistance is futile

Yes, fabulous Borg Leader! I will try my best not to resist the clan! I must obey, oh fabulous Borg Leader for you have the chain of command!

 

[MAXSwagg]

How would you know, exactly, it's a small group of fans? No one here "jumped up", it seems, except Plushy fans still pissed off about 2010. If you mean pushing the technical and aesthetic boundaries of the sport, I would agree, he didn't - few do. For me he and Ashley are memorable for their perseverance which with their ability to perform under pressure makes they champions. I believe a large number of fans would include this quality in the their description of champion. Is it all right if I hold on to my own perspective on memorable-ness?

...Ashley performs under pressure??

 

[Bellanca]

 

[Ronja]

Evan who?
The boring guy with absolutely 0% charisma?
The guy who was so memorable, that I actually forgot once during the competition, that he had already skated

 

[Areski]

All of this negativity in this thread almost makes me want to re-watch Evan's programs and see if I underappreciated him. Almost.

You can watch: Patrick Commentates Skating (+ some cool girl) with Lysacek's Carmen He can give you some lacking entertainment They really made me laugh here (and they apparently can't stop laughing either).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCxCPzVGyI

 

[Yazmeen]

I'm the midst of all this "Draaahhhma," I'm still snorting wine out my nose laughing over the poster who referred to Tara as having a "minor flutzing" issue. The lady whose ankle rolled so far over from an outside to inside edge just before she jumped on her lutz that it nearly touched the ice. Honestly, I was frankly amazed she never ended up with an ankle fracture in her brief career. Still imagine what her "lutz" would have scored under IJS...

So sorry for the interruption, we now return you to your regularly scheduled Evan bash fest...

 

[DimaToe]

So which Lysacek costume was your favorite? mine was the black one.

 

[berthesghost]

So which Lysacek costume was your favorite? mine was the black one.

My fav was the shez one from earlier in the season. Fabulous! I was so disappointed when he switched to the snake one.

So sorry for the interruption, we now return you to your regularly scheduled Evan bash fest...

For realz! This whole thread is just an excuse to go off on him for no apparent reason. The smugness is cray

 

[olympic]

I think The Unhappy Ones would have a point if they could legitimately show how someone else should have won the men's event in Vancouver '10, although they would attract more listeners if they made their point in a better way.

 

[Yazmeen]

I think The Unhappy Ones would have a point if they could legitimately show how someone else should have won the men's event in Vancouver '10, although they would attract more listeners if they made their point in a better way.

I'm just enjoying the indignation and bunched knickers. Same way I enjoy watching caseyedwards go off every time Evan gets mentioned. To borrow from Ms. Tara, he won the Olympic gold medal. And you can NEVER, EVER take that away from him!!

 

[MAXSwagg]

I think The Unhappy Ones would have a point if they could legitimately show how someone else should have won the men's event in Vancouver '10, although they would attract more listeners if they made their point in a better way.

He won legitimately given the rules of that time. Although the jump valuations were very poor (not enough credit for 3A in base value or quad(s) relative to 3Lz), un-scaled GOEs that gave the same points for a 3T as it did for a 3A, and the outrageous automatic downgrade for under-rotated jumps. This, coupled with proper credit for Takahashi's much more choreographically complex programs and unmatched expression and performance could be enough to arguably give him the win. The latter point is preference but that is my opinion. When I scored using today's technical rules and values, I had him [Dai] winning by a point or two with Plush third (I'm sorry), so I can understand Evan winning. It would be interesting to see how a panel with more people would give (other than just me).

 

[Meoima]

So which Lysacek costume was your favorite? mine was the black one.

Evan wore any costume other than black?

 

[olympic]

He won legitimately given the rules of that time. Although the jump valuations were very poor (not enough credit for 3A in base value or quad(s) relative to 3Lz), un-scaled GOEs that gave the same points for a 3T as it did for a 3A, and the outrageous automatic downgrade for under-rotated jumps. This, coupled with proper credit for Takahashi's much more choreographically complex programs and unmatched expression and performance could be enough to arguably give him the win. The latter point is preference but that is my opinion. When I scored using today's technical rules and values, I had him [Dai] winning by a point or two with Plush third (I'm sorry), so I can understand Evan winning. It would be interesting to see how a panel with more people would give (other than just me).

Point values were what they were in 2010. There is no getting around that, so Evan's win was fair

 

[screech]

Evan wore any costume other than black?

Haha I actually searched him on google images. It's rare, but he did!
Red shirt
White shirt/red scarf thingie
whatever this orange monstrosity is

Other than that, he usually had at least a black vest over top of his shirt.

 

[travismoncton]

Point values were what they were in 2010. There is no getting around that, so Evan's win was fair

If Takahashi got points for quality the way Chan does, which he is every bit of worthy of, especialy in comparision to old way past his prime Plushenko and Lysacek, he would have had a good likelihood of winning when the quad fall was his only real mistake. It is Chan himself who had numerous ridiculous wins over clean Takahashi with 3 or 4 falls, and Takahashi in reality is just as artistic or moreso than Chan and matches him in most everything but being a bit behind in skating skills and spins, and far ahead of both old way past his prime Plushenko and Lysacek in overall quality. In general it was just more Takahashi being screwed and not getting the same benefits his competitors get as always, which continued with the ridiculous scoring he would get in coming years vs Chan. So Takahashi doesnt have even a 1 fall cushion over way past his prime Plushenko and quadless Lysacek, but Chan has a 4 fall margin over Takahashi, while Chan has almost no mistake margin over baby Hanyu who had almost no artistry yet in 2012-2014. I could go on awhile but it clear Takahashi was the most unfairly scored of pretty much everyone the whole 2009-2014 period, whether he deserved to win in Vancouver or not.