MarieM
Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
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And people are forgetting that there are 4 full time ice dance coach in Montreal. Not two.
Battle of the Top Ice Dance Coaches
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Moustaffask8r
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Dream on
marbri
Hey, Kool-Aid!
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If only it were possible to just mute her and still have the music playing. There are some things I'd like to see and hear on the televised feed, some opinions or comments I'd like to hear, but I can't listen to her voice so I settle for the a live feed online without commentary.
Moustaffask8r
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Montreal Will never have russians in their camp
Yup, I think Platov once said that he likes being by the sea because it reminds him of Odessa which is where he was born and raised.
AYS
?
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I was going to say, why does Marie France so often get called out and not the others? She's not even the primary coach for Papadakis/Cizeron, yet you see so many posters reference mainly her. Romain isn't that hard to spell.
And for those she is primary, there is no reason to think she is the lead over Patrice, is there?barbarafan
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I was going to say, why does Marie France so often get called out and not the others? She's not even the primary coach for Papadakis/Cizeron, yet you see so many posters reference mainly her. Romain isn't that hard to spell.
From what i read in interviews Patrice is the technician honing all those levels etc and MF is more dealing with cheoro and the overall look and feel of the team..that is why you hear more about her. They are all working together behind the scenes.
barbarafan
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why is that?
arakwafan2006
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P&C's head coach is Romain who used to coach Patrice and Lauzon. I think this whole subordination concept is more important to fans in this case. Either way,things seem to be working out just fine. Marie France was at the helm of packaging what was already there in the teams. The partnership is ideal as each member gets to focus on what they're naturally good at doing. This partnership and coherence is what in the long run is going to keep Montreal at the top. It's what Igor, Marina and frankly Camerlengo/Krylova are missing. Marie- France's choreographic aesthetic is very heavy handed in that her teams share similar styles. Reminds me of Joanna Gains on HGTV. you either like her or you don't but every house gets open concept and distressed furniture the same way all of Marie France's teams have a clean and minimalistic but clear style.
Her strength is making programs that are easily understood and enjoyed by the public and easy for the judges to judge. You're doin something right if your work brings Tatiana Tarasova to tears.
We haven't seen their coaches in the senior ranks yet... I would wait until McNamara/Carpenter move up to senior to make an opinion on that one... I think that they could contend for the top 6 at least.
greenapple
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I find Tracy Wilson fine because she is a consultant at the club and not a main coach.
Carol Lane I find odd commentating while coaching top teams. But I also really dislike her as a commentator and find she talks too much when the skaters are performing and it's mostly rubbish that comes from her mouth. For example today during the pair competition when a team was doing a death spiral she actually said "around and around and around" for each rotation. WTF kind of commentating is that? I am watching the live feed on my laptop instead of my nice big flatscreen TV because I can't handle the woman's voice anymore.
Rant over
I so agree with you. Her non-stop blah, blah, blah is beyond annoying and so irritating. She does not go to competitions with her teams if it conflicts with her CBC job. Huh? What coach does that? She is more interested in advancing herself than the teams she coaches. I stopped watching the CBC TV coverage long ago because I could not stand listening to her non-professional commentary.
Could Zahorski-Guerreiro become 'A new hope' for Russian ice?
princeton123
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So Romain isn't on V/M's team? That's a comfort for P/C. I find it hard to believe the Canadians won't have a little Canadian bias.
As long as Gailhaguet threatens Lyon's top teams, takes away any funding and finances their going abroad, Lyon is going to struggle. Zazoui is forbidden to appear at international or national events, even with her dancers.
But Gailhaguet won't be able to finance new teams indefinitly.
3 is already big (Papadakis/Cizeron and Lauriault/Le Gac in Montréal -but that wasn't Gailhaguet's choice - and Abachkina/Thauron with Shpilband - bad choice IMHO but Gailhaguet's).
There are now interesting young dancers in Lyon, they are barely starting junior. But if they rise, Gailhaguet won't be able to lure them indefinitly. He simply doesn't have the money.
For the record, the situation in Lyon with the Gailhaguet vs Zazoui war made things unbearable for everyone.
Haguenauer thinks Zazoui (who is not without fault) should have stepped down and let him take over.
She didn't so he left. And several dancers followed him because he was their main coach.
Now Schoenfelder is stepping up in Lyon. I can't wait to see what he'll do with some of the juniors he has but that is in a post Pyeongchang horizon.
(Here is an interview -in french- Haguenauer gave in May 2015 to a local magazine where he explained his position in the Lyon's crisis, why he left, and P/C's success)
VGThuy
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Can someone give me a summary of what happened with Lyon and the French Fed. It sounds very interesting but I don't know how I missed it.
First, it is a war between Gailhaguet and the Zazoui couple.
He may not be in the light but Brahim "Jesus" Zazoui who runs the Charlemagne rink isn't a universally beloved man, AFAIK, and is central to the whole thing, as are Muriel and Gailhaguet.
Haguenauer stated in the above interview :
"The presidents of Lyon's club and of the federation were having a disagrement. For me, it was really a stupid fight between people, a fight for power, to obtain the leadership on french ice. But it ended having consequences on my work which is to keep athletes at the highest level."
When Gailhaguet wants someone down, he uses "files" on people. He dug the maximum he could against the Zazouis (which probably had some "sins" of their own) and proceeded to destroy their structure. It started around 2011 I think.
As taz'smum said somewhere, Gailhaguet surprisingly allowed some french dancers from Lyon to skate for other countries. Then somebody signaled to the Sport Ministry that Lyon was training dancers who were mainly foreign and should not receive the label of "national center" and state funding.
He asked the Sport Ministry for a premature break of the 4 years contract with Haguenauer as a "national coach", which was making him state-employed. Haguenauer lost his position of ice dance supervisor within the fed.
In 2014, he forbid Zazoui to appear on screen at the TEB (look at the empty chair near P/C, you can guess her on the side) . He said she wasn't welcome at the following Euros.
Without saying anything to anyone, he didn't register P/C as members of the club of Lyon but to the club France which is a fictional club, so the funding their club was entitled to would end up in the fed's pocket (club France was created for Joubert as soon as Gailhaguet had him split with his first original coach, so the funding would stop, when usually skaters who go to national centers keep their licence in their original club).
And Gailhaguet unofficially forbid french technical specialists to work with Gabriella and Guillaume during 2013 summer. They realized they were "blacklisted" as the summer went on. They had to call foreign tech specialists in a hurry to get their levels checked before the start of the season.
Guillaume's dad labeled it as a personal attack against Papadakis and Cizeron.
That is how they entered their first season in senior.
At the end of the 2013-2014 season, he started to fund the departure of the best couples abroad. He sent Abachkina/Thauron to Shpilband. Papadakis / Cizeron chosed to follow Haguenauer.
Here is the topic from 2013.
He may not be in the light but Brahim "Jesus" Zazoui who runs the Charlemagne rink isn't a universally beloved man, AFAIK, and is central to the whole thing, as are Muriel and Gailhaguet.
Haguenauer stated in the above interview :
"The presidents of Lyon's club and of the federation were having a disagrement. For me, it was really a stupid fight between people, a fight for power, to obtain the leadership on french ice. But it ended having consequences on my work which is to keep athletes at the highest level."
When Gailhaguet wants someone down, he uses "files" on people. He dug the maximum he could against the Zazouis (which probably had some "sins" of their own) and proceeded to destroy their structure. It started around 2011 I think.
As taz'smum said somewhere, Gailhaguet surprisingly allowed some french dancers from Lyon to skate for other countries. Then somebody signaled to the Sport Ministry that Lyon was training dancers who were mainly foreign and should not receive the label of "national center" and state funding.
He asked the Sport Ministry for a premature break of the 4 years contract with Haguenauer as a "national coach", which was making him state-employed. Haguenauer lost his position of ice dance supervisor within the fed.
In 2014, he forbid Zazoui to appear on screen at the TEB (look at the empty chair near P/C, you can guess her on the side) . He said she wasn't welcome at the following Euros.
Without saying anything to anyone, he didn't register P/C as members of the club of Lyon but to the club France which is a fictional club, so the funding their club was entitled to would end up in the fed's pocket (club France was created for Joubert as soon as Gailhaguet had him split with his first original coach, so the funding would stop, when usually skaters who go to national centers keep their licence in their original club).
And Gailhaguet unofficially forbid french technical specialists to work with Gabriella and Guillaume during 2013 summer. They realized they were "blacklisted" as the summer went on. They had to call foreign tech specialists in a hurry to get their levels checked before the start of the season.
Guillaume's dad labeled it as a personal attack against Papadakis and Cizeron.
That is how they entered their first season in senior.
At the end of the 2013-2014 season, he started to fund the departure of the best couples abroad. He sent Abachkina/Thauron to Shpilband. Papadakis / Cizeron chosed to follow Haguenauer.
Here is the topic from 2013.
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aftershocks
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Honest response by Haguenauer:
Interviewer: Papadakis/Cizeron would not be world champions today if they had stayed in Lyon?
Haguenauer: No. Not under current conditions.
Nmsis said:
What they went through must make their success all the more resonant, meaningful and satisfying!
And Gailhaguet is running for ISU Prez
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the Montréal school will dominate the podium at worlds next year, P&C , V&M and Hubbel and Donahue last one is a bit iffy but i think Fix you was the Shibs artistic high point i just don`t see them matching that and C&B were on the podium solely because of Shipband and his connections alot of things can change in one year in ice dance, with regards to the top 2 i don`t see anybody beating them were talking about legends of ice dance here.
VGThuy
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You notice how none of your predictions come to fruition? I know you're just trolling, but you're way too fun to respond to.
taz'smum
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Angelique was with Shpilband before she moved to Lyon, in fact it was Igor who recommended the move, as he said that Zazoui had a lots of potential partners for Angelique, so was her best option. Angelique continued to do Summer camps with Igor whilst she was with Zazoui.
Though of course DG would've been very happy when they moved to Igor full time, it was not his decision, it was Angelique and Louis' parents who made that choice.
I stand corrected.
I just remember her doing figure skating in Nice and then doing solo ice dance in Lyon.
Moustaffask8r
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A/T are taking from Papadakis mom while they're in France....
Will there be a little push to move them toward Montreal???
Cherub721
YEAH!
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That's very surprising! Didn't she move to France when she was very young and started skating in France? I would have assumed she'd started in Lyon too (she has that nice basic skating). I wonder how she ended up in the US with Shpilband first. Are her parents figure skaters?
Moustaffask8r
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I believe Fabian is the one who brought A-T in Detroit
I wondered about this when I was watching ice dance. Why would her team be ok with her commentating instead of assisting them at their biggest competition of the year? CBC is also not as transparent anymore about her coaching them. I also just don't like her commentating. It's maybe a reflection of how hard it is to get a figure skating good commentator or even general sports commentators that she is still there. I remember when they would bring their top tier sports team (Brian Williams and Chris Cuthbert) on board for world championships.
pat c
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I find Tracy Wilson fine because she is a consultant at the club and not a main coach.
Carol Lane I find odd commentating while coaching top teams. But I also really dislike her as a commentator and find she talks too much when the skaters are performing and it's mostly rubbish that comes from her mouth. For example today during the pair competition when a team was doing a death spiral she actually said "around and around and around" for each rotation. WTF kind of commentating is that? I am watching the live feed on my laptop instead of my nice big flatscreen TV because I can't handle the woman's voice anymore.
Rant over
My husband watched worlds on tv as I was in Boston, and he complained often about Carol Lane. I told him to mute the tv, he said he just quit watching.
Carol Lane was in Boston.
greenapple
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She was - but only as a commentator for CBC - not as a coach.
taz'smum
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Angelique was with Igor in Detroit before she ever had a partner!
Angelique and Louis were doing Summer camps with Igor whilst still training with Muriel Zazoui when Fabian was still a competitive skater, long before he became a coach.
Moustaffask8r
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I know that. But its Fabian, once hé Turner coach that suggestion that the team nove permenantly to IgorAngelique was with Igor in Detroit before she ever had a partner!
Angelique and Louis were doing Summer camps with Igor whilst still training with Muriel Zazoui when Fabian was still a competitive skater, long before he became a coach.
Checking Angélique's career,
- in 2009-2011, she does figure skating and compete at the season-long Tournoi de France with Nice's skating club with Katia Gentelet (raw research, the CSNPA who keeps the competition tabs stops at 2011-2012, there are a few results on Nice's club website).
TDF 2009
TDF Nice February 2010
TDF Grenoble 2010
An international comp, probably the Rooster Cup in April 2010
TDF Caen in November 2010
TDF Nice February 2011
TDF Villenave d'Ornon February 2011
Probably an avenir or minime french championships in March or April (can't check but that would be logical)
- in 2011-2012, she switches to ice-dance and does competitive solo ice dance.
She does the whole Tournoi de France for the club of Lyon (Clermont in November, Morzine in December, Limoges in January, Toulouse in February) and the solo championships in Reims (video with Haguenauer behind the barrier)
- in 2012-2013, she is not there at the begining of the season (Summer Cup in July, Masters in October but that may be normal for a new couple) but reappears, paired with Thauron for the first TDF in Villard in November, then does Belfort in December, Besançon in January, the junior championships in February (here is their FD at those championships).
- in 2013-2014, they do the Summer Cup in Lyon, start JGPs, enter the Masters in orléans, do the Santa Claus Cup, the Jr french championships and Jr Worlds.
- in 2014-2015, they switch to Shpilband. Don't know if they switched before or after Haguenauer's departure.
So there are few "black holes" in her career, apart from the off-seasons and the very begining of her dance couple during the summer 2012.
It's probably a matter of chosing a mentor, the same way that Delobel/Schoenfelder chose TAT as a mentor as juniors, trained with her as often as they could during summer camps (even when they trained with Lydie Bontemps, then Muriel Zazoui) and eventually moved to Russia for 2 years. (correct me if I'm assuming wrong, taz'smum)
PS : watching the videos, Mama Abachkina must have had numerous talks with french announcers about the pronunciation of her last name. Lol.
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