Seguin/Bilodeau, Firus out of Worlds

[aftershocks]

It's just poopy timing. Nic didn't open our eyes wide enough until a few weeks ago. And for different reasons, Liam, Kevin and Nam just weren't able to cobble their bodies and skills together in time to make an impact for Canada in Boston. We were never qualifying 3 and with Patrick we weren't losing two. I was over this whole issue before the event started. We can just hit the reset button and come back better as a country in the fall.

When the dust settles, we'll likely have the same # of slots as the American men in Finland, so I'm keeping this disaster in perspective.

What, it's okay as long as Canada keeps pace with the number of American men you expect will qualify for Finland.

Excuses, excuses!!! Now can you explain some of the WTF scoring (especially on PCS) and placements in that men's jumping contest in Boston.

Poor Han Yan with his gorgeous skating skills and out-sized headache-inducing quad-compatriot. Han seemed inspired at 4CCs with a fire lit under him re JB's success, but still Han was rated behind the young apparently already arrived quad-whippersnapper. Lucky MCM and Julian Yee, both of whom the judges didn't care would have been the recipients of the brutal cut-off. However, a couple of guys with quads who judges were saving scores for messed up big time and we get to see whether MCM can improve upon his 21st place effort in 2015, and whether or not Yee from Malaysia can repeat a clean, inspired performance for the fp. Righini's style is not my cup of tea, but the guy poured out his heart and soul on the ice and the judges went for all that emotion. OTOH, surprisingly, Misha Ge was uncharacteristically subdued with an unusually low-key yet clean, beautiful performance. It didn't rate so highly with the judges.

Fernandez is improved, yes, and he's the defending champ. But did he deserve 98!? Did he deserve 46+ on components. NO! Give him skating skills and transitions, but performance execution should take a slight hit, and he does not deserve in the 9s on CH and IN. Boyang at best should receive mid to high 6s on components.

Chan started out well, but faltered on his weakest jump. Except for Hanyu (who say is "from another planet") all top five guys had errors, that should have affected their overly high scores. I think Kolyada deserved to be in front of Boyang, as Kolyada is a better overall skater. They are both young, as is Shoma, and so all three have much room to grow. Adam should have received higher PCS. Max is letting all the aesthetic snobbery criticism get to him. If Boyang can receive such high tech and get a bump on PCS to that degree, so should Max if he just realizes the quads are his money jumps and get off the artsy overcompensation trip which is psyching him out.

Hopefully Chan lays down in the fp and pulls ahead of Fernandez, who gets too many gifts when he messes up. Oh, but I forgot, so did Chan used to get too many gifts when he messed up. And that's where all this OTT quad worship by judges started becoming out-of-whack. Is it too late for Denis Ten to come back from 70s nowhere land? And what happened to Brezina? Hmmm, the judges were generous. I guess they didn't want to break Brez's heart for kinda breaking our hearts that he couldn't go clean with that beautiful Jeff Buttle-choreographed sp.

Liam! I truly hope he is somewhere not watching Worlds, and preparing to come back strong and take his spot back from Nam next year. Oh, but with likely only two spots available again at Worlds for Canadian men, most likely it will be Nic to the rescue in Finland with Chan still in the game? (Hint, hint: It's useless Pat. Little Prince hails from another planet).

Pardon me for enjoying seeing Orser squirming in the kiss 'n cry for a change, and the judges helpless to bail out at least one of his skaters because there was no substance, no speed, and no artistry. Not much there to work with. Poor Nam should have been allowed a chance to fully regroup out of the huge spotlight. Was there some reason that they couldn't have sent sweet Nic in the first place fresh off his Junior Worlds silver medal triumph? I mean why not have Nam give up his last minute Worlds spot for Nic at the last minute?

 

[dramagrrl]

It would be fair, IMHO, to assume that the bigwigs at Skate Canada knew that we would likely end up with two spots, but then decided to gamble for anything beyond that. One gamble may have been for our second skater to (at the very least) qualify for the LP, which would at least be a dignified placing regardless of what the final qualifying total would be; everyone knew we were basically guaranteed two spots unless Patrick missed the bus to the arena, so a decent second placement would look less disgraceful. The second gamble might have been to throw caution to the wind and figure that since we were essentially guaranteed two placements for next season, why not toss a dice and send the best possible skater, on paper, to possibly work a miracle and help get us an extra skater next year?

On paper, Nam would be that skater. Even though he struggled this season, he was one of two of the four possibilities (Nguyen, Firus, Reynolds, Nadeau) to have previously placed in the top five at Worlds. (Reynolds was the other, having placed 5th at Worlds in 2013.) Once Reynolds failed to earn the minimums and was therefore out of the picture, Nam was the only one of the three possibles to have landed not one, but two different quads successfully in competition. He was the only one who had a quad planned in his SP.

Yes, given the results of this season, perhaps banking on Nadeau at the last minute would have been a better choice, but on paper, at the very best he could do, Nic would have no quad in either of his programs and very little margin for error. Logically, going on the assumption that two places for Canada were already earned by the presence of Chan and three would be a wild goose chase, SC was right to send Nam.

 

[Seerek]

Im no expert but wouldnt Liam have at least qualified for the free skate?

Hard to say. Last week in Triglav Trophy, Firus had 64.40 SP/32.70 TES. He may have received the additional component marks in Boston to squeak into top 24.

It's just poopy timing. Nic didn't open our eyes wide enough until a few weeks ago.

In fact, Nadeau should have already on peoples' radars way back in October after JGP Croatia, if not by December at Skate Canada Challenge.

The problem is Skate Canada had pegged all along for Nadeau for Junior Worlds because they wanted to gain an extra Junior Worlds spot and more Junior Grand Prix spots.

Not to mention the fact that Nadeau is older than Nguyen too, evidence that skating careers are best developed with long term perspective in mind, rather than winning junior titles.

 

[aftershocks]

... SC was right to send Nam.

More after the fact excuse-making. I don't know if "right" is exactly the right word, in this context.

 

[dramagrrl]

More after the fact excuse-making. I don't know if "right" is exactly the right word, in this context.

I wasn't making excuses for anyone; I was stating my opinion that SC's decision was basically logical since the outcome would likely have come down to the same ending no matter who they sent. Also, I stand by my opinion that "right" is the correct word in the context of my whole sentence, which you conveniently clipped in your quote - what I was saying was that since two spots were essentially locked up for Canada thanks to Patrick, on paper, Nam was the logical (and really, only) choice if the plan was to go on a wild goose chase for a miracle third spot.

 

[rhapsody]

SC should have just sent Patrick. It's more probable that he'd place 2nd than another Canadian man placing at least 11th (or higher if Patrick winds up placing lower in the standings).

 

[Xela M]

SC should have just sent Patrick. It's more probable that he'd place 2nd than another Canadian man placing at least 11th (or higher if Patrick winds up placing lower in the standings).

I was actually thinking just that! Patrick definitely has a shot at 2nd if his 3A doesn't implode and hit the boards again

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

Has Nam's axel always looked that bad?

Either way, I feel for him. Basically, he has a new body, has had an awful year, was questionably chosen for worlds, and then he skates like that. If it was me, I'd be so conscious of the fact I'm replacing someone else at worlds because it's thought I have a better chance to do well and then I don't even make the LP I bet skating isn't particularly enjoyable for him at the moment.

I feel for Liam even more.

 

[rjblue]

I think it would have been cruel for SC to have left an available spot unused. I really hope that it was Liam's decision to give up his spot, because if they took it from him, that would have felt horrible.

Skaters train all their adolescence trying to just make it to Provincials, Nationals, and Worlds. To not send someone when a spot is available, because of only needing them if they can get us "spots", is ignoring the massive reward that making it to Worlds is.

 

[nadioso]

Has Nam's axel always looked that bad?


.

It was that bad when he was training under Mcleod. Mcleod is known for teaching bad axel technique to her students.

When you get frustrated with a new body you instinctively go back to what is most familiar. Which for him is Mcleod's technique unfortunately.

 

[Xela M]

Another proof (if we ever needed any) that withdrawing from Worlds for no reason is a bad bad bad idea!

 

[Rafter]

If it was Liam's decision, good for him. Maybe even Krall suggested it? Why go to worlds with no 3a and no quad and risk embarrassing yourself badly (which is surely what would happen). His confidence would definitely become even lower than it already is going into next season.

I'm sure Skate Canada accepted his decision and are very pleased with this turn of events.

If it was Skate Canada's decision, can't say I blame them.

Quoting myself here. And......now the same thing applies to Nam. Confidence after this will be at an all time low I would imagine. I also don't understand why he skated that program? Didn't he go back to last year's SP at Canadians in Jan?

Thinking back on this decision, it probably was the best one to make (sending Nam). However, I wonder if the long time between events (over two months) wasn't a good thing for him. It's too bad he wasn't sent to 4ccs.

 

[Rafter]

Also want to add that it wouldn't surprise me at all of Nadeau is the second man next year, he seems to have good head for competition.

Is Nadeau age eligible for the JGP next season? Even if he is, I hope he skates senior all season.

 

[mag]

I think Nam also has a good head for competition. (I know @Rafter that you were not saying otherwise.) When I think about how consistent Nam has been for the past 12 or so years, he really was the best choice. No one, and I mean no one, is on 100% of time. It is just really too bad for Nam that there wasn't another Canadian man who could step up.

 

[nicecardshark]

Why is there only one French man competing here in Boston, when they qualified two?

This question obviously belongs in a different thread, was just hoping someone might be able to offer a quick answer. I have been unable to find an answer anywhere. Thanks.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Why is there only one French man competing here in Boston, when they qualified two?

This question obviously belongs in a different thread, was just hoping someone might be able to offer a quick answer. I have been unable to find an answer anywhere. Thanks.

LOL. France, France, France.. They also have World Champions in Dance and they are the only ones here too.

Not sure if any other dance team or any other man has the minimum qualifications to compete here.

 

[cheerknithanson]

So much anguish last night....backfire......Groannnnnnn...

 

[aftershocks]

I wasn't making excuses for anyone; I was stating my opinion that SC's decision was basically logical since the outcome would likely have come down to the same ending no matter who they sent. Also, I stand by my opinion that "right" is the correct word in the context of my whole sentence, which you conveniently clipped in your quote - what I was saying was that since two spots were essentially locked up for Canada thanks to Patrick, on paper, Nam was the logical (and really, only) choice if the plan was to go on a wild goose chase for a miracle third spot.

Whatever way you perceive it that makes you feel better. Us fans are always trying to make sense of what goes on in figure skating. I would suggest that not much of it is logical or explainable, much less right or wrong. Lots of fodder for an ongoing soap opera or miniseries. I'm truly surprised network execs don't realize all the they are missing out on cashing in on. The Tonya/Nancy saga was just the tip of the iceberg and way old by now.

Quoting myself here. And......now the same thing applies to Nam. Confidence after this will be at an all time low I would imagine. I also don't understand why he skated that program? Didn't he go back to last year's SP at Canadians in Jan?

Thinking back on this decision, it probably was the best one to make (sending Nam). However, I wonder if the long time between events (over two months) wasn't a good thing for him. It's too bad he wasn't sent to 4ccs.

I thought the reports were that Nam was doing well in practices. Maybe just hearsay? Anyway, clearly Nam needs some time off to regroup and manage the growing pains. And wonder of wonders, now he has plenty of time available and no more competition worries to stress him out, for awhile at least. Take a break Nam. Go on vacation. Eat noodles and chill out with your favorite videos and/or computer games. Your life is still ahead of you.

Maybe Nam should even reach out to Liam, and they should laugh the whole thing off. Even if the fans and Skate Canada aren't particularly feeling their funny bones at the moment.

 

[aftershocks]

Duplicate post

 

[Seerek]

Why is there only one French man competing here in Boston, when they qualified two?

This question obviously belongs in a different thread, was just hoping someone might be able to offer a quick answer. I have been unable to find an answer anywhere. Thanks.

The French Federation had additional criteria on top of the ISU Technical Minimums to be Worlds Eligible (that being a benchmark Total Score). Only Besseghier achieved the total score minimum.

 

[Rock2]

What, it's okay as long as Canada keeps pace with the number of American men you expect will qualify for Finland.

Nooooo, never said it's 'OK'

I'm pointing out that the negative energy over the Canadian situation seems to be disproportionate to what we're hearing over the American situation, yet we're likely to have the same # of slots in Finland.

But no, it's not OK and I'm never here to excuse anyone's performance. I'm disappointed in our showing but the net result is what I expected going in.

 

[Rock2]

...and Nic has been firmly on our radar, of course. I said he 'opened our eyes wide' (meaning, make us think he might be the right choice for worlds) as of his Junior Worlds skate. At Nationals in his first senior high-profile event, he came only fifth and landed no quads and no 3/3. Still, a good skate...although that didn't have me jumping up and down saying to kick Liam out of worlds and put Nic in. Anyone who felt that way and voiced on these boards before his Junior Worlds skate gets a gold star.

Otherwise, then I think my point holds. He didn't open our eyes wide open until his JW skate, yeah. And fwiw, they are even wider now given what we are currently seeing from our #2, 3 and 4.

Who knows what these guys will bring in the fall. I hope it's good. But at least as of now, many of us are prepared to wear sandwich boards to get Nic to Finland next year if we have to.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I've been impressed with Nadeau since I first saw his Mary Poppins, which I'm pretty sure was last year.

Nam has been pretty consistent throughout his career until this year, when major growth spurt two has hit him hard. The odds that he'd repeat his finish from last year in Boston were always very long.

I want what Skate Canada is smoking.

 

[sk8girl]

Anyway, clearly Nam needs some time off to regroup and manage the growing pains. And wonder of wonders, now he has plenty of time available and no more competition worries to stress him out, for awhile at least. Take a break Nam. Go on vacation. Eat noodles and chill out with your favorite videos and/or computer games.

Except that he's doing the new ISU team thing in April, so no time for a break yet, unfortunately...

 

[pocoloco]

Oh, what a mess. Where your :fragilemapleleaf: emoticon when you need it.

 

[vesperholly]

Oh, what a mess. Where your :fragilemapleleaf: emoticon when you need it.

You need to invent that stat! So many opportunities to use it

 

[fan]

Except that he's doing the new ISU team thing in April, so no time for a break yet, unfortunately...

He's also headed to a show in Newfoundland on Saturday, so he'll miss the party and then have to head straight back to training. Poor kid - he needs a rest

 

[shuilee]

Saw Liam Firus in Boston today during Pairs SP (presumably to cheer on his girlfriend Kirsten?). Wish he got to skate instead in the Men's competition since he's in Boston anyways!

 

[WanderlustTO]

Firus was referenced in the Star...sounds like, as some of us figured, SC put pressure on him to withdraw:

Most distressing to the teen is that was giving this shot at the worlds because Liam Firus of North Vancouver, reigning Canadian silver medalist, stood down for Boston, allowing Nguyen to take his spot — in the hope that a Chan-Nguyen tandem would have better odds of securing the placement math allowing Canada to qualify three men for 2017 worlds, which in turn will determine how many men can go to the 2018 Winter Olympics.

The amiable Firus has been widely lauded for his unselfishness, though sources have told the Star that Skate Canada applied some arm-twisting and Firus was not very happy about his sacrifice.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/skati...patrick-chan-stumbles-to-fifth-at-worlds.html

 

[marbri]

That's a Rosie DiManno article. Her sources are probably posters in this thread