Polina Edmunds has withdrawn from 2016 Worlds, replaced by Mirai Nagasu

[Erin]

There is no way boots can improve her GWTW. She may have boot problems but her team is collectively suffering from poor taste in packaging.

And the same goes for last year's Tinkerbell long program. The growth spurt had nothing to do with that just being a terrible program. I have liked her SPs both seasons but the LPs have been brutal. And none of the programs have choreographically measured up to the Olympic programs if you ask me, so she's actually regressed.

If anything, I would say that the growth spurt and boot problems would be reasons to put more emphasis on strong packaging, since that should be unaffected by those things, rather than use those things as an excuse for why we haven't seen her progress artistically.

 

[VGThuy]

Who is using it as an excuse? One or two FSU posters?

 

[Erin]

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to imply Polina herself was using it as an excuse.

 

[JJS5056]

I didn't just think Polina's Olympic programs were good; I thought they were extraordinary for her age.

Skaters just don't lose their innate musicality or performance ability. They just need the right vehicle.

"Moonlight Sonata" was a step in the right direction for Polina. I think "The Lark Ascending" or "Prelude to An Afternoon" would actually make great FS programs for her.

Some skaters have smashing senior starts but take awhile to develop. Take a look at Mirai.

Hopefully Polina will use this time to heal but also really think about what it takes to get to the next level.

Agreed. Her Olympic programs were fantastic and it's crazy to think that this same girl is now probably so far behind Russians like Medvedeva PCS-wise that it's unlikely that she will reach a similar level in time for 2018 when she was the same age in Sochi making eye contact in her senior international debut in the SP. Despite the foot-in-mouth comments, they do show that the same confident Polina who pulled off a convincing, mature Cha-Cha (sorry if this is the wrong rhythm) at 15 is still in there and is capable of so much more. I hope you didn't think I was implying she has lost her sense of musicality or performance ability, BTW.

I disagree about Moonlight Sonata, though. Where did it take her that Grieg didn't? When the music was announced, did you expect anything different than what she put out there? It was competent. It was everything I knew it would be because she had proven she had the skills and interpretation to carry such a piece. But, it was stagnant. "Lark" or "Prelude" (am I allowed to be lazy like that?) would have been great LPs this year had she done something different stylistically last season. Maybe I am only remembering the most generic programs to those pieces... are there modern interpretations in the dance world, perhaps? If so, I'd still be down. But, if it is going to be another case of pretty background music, I'm out.

@Erin - 'Tinkerbell' was no masterpiece, but I don't why I can't help but state this every time it is mentioned. Had she skated that program in a simple, light blue dress and called the program "Wanderlust" or some other nonsense, I really feel like it undoubtedly would have been received more positively, which would have perhaps allowed her team to explore more challenging programs this season instead of doing damage control. It was no masterpiece, but I saw the vision for contrasting the SP with something more ethereal in an attempt to show her progress from Grieg and to also highlight what was perceived to be a strength over her international competition of similar age. Unfortunately, I think her growth did also impact the overall impact of that strategy, as her jumps were much more labored last season (those 2A's were horrendous!) and that just is a terrible combination with that style of program.

 

[VGThuy]

Agreed. Her Olympic programs were fantastic and it's crazy to think that this same girl is now probably so far behind Russians like Medvedeva PCS-wise that it's unlikely that she will reach a similar level in time for 2018 when she was the same age in Sochi making eye contact in her senior international debut in the SP. Despite the foot-in-mouth comments, they do show that the same confident Polina who pulled off a convincing, mature Cha-Cha (sorry if this is the wrong rhythm) at 15 is still in there and is capable of so much more. I hope you didn't think I was implying she has lost her sense of musicality or performance ability, BTW.

I disagree about Moonlight Sonata, though. Where did it take her that Grieg didn't? When the music was announced, did you expect anything different than what she put out there? It was competent. It was everything I knew it would be because she had proven she had the skills and interpretation to carry such a piece. But, it was stagnant. "Lark" or "Prelude" (am I allowed to be lazy like that?) would have been great LPs this year had she done something different stylistically last season. Maybe I am only remembering the most generic programs to those pieces... are there modern interpretations in the dance world, perhaps? If so, I'd still be down. But, if it is going to be another case of pretty background music, I'm out.

@Erin - 'Tinkerbell' was no masterpiece, but I don't why I can't help but state this every time it is mentioned. Had she skated that program in a simple, light blue dress and called the program "Wanderlust" or some other nonsense, I really feel like it undoubtedly would have been received more positively, which would have perhaps allowed her team to explore more challenging programs this season instead of doing damage control. It was no masterpiece, but I saw the vision for contrasting the SP with something more ethereal in an attempt to show her progress from Grieg and to also highlight what was perceived to be a strength over her international competition of similar age. Unfortunately, I think her growth did also impact the overall impact of that strategy, as her jumps were much more labored last season (those 2A's were horrendous!) and that just is a terrible combination with that style of program.

I agree with everything you just said. I'm happy you were able to eloquently state what I wanted to say.

 

[IceAlisa]

- 'Tinkerbell' was no masterpiece, but I don't why I can't help but state this every time it is mentioned. Had she skated that program in a simple, light blue dress and called the program "Wanderlust" or some other nonsense, I really feel like it undoubtedly would have been received more positively, which would have perhaps allowed her team to explore more challenging programs this season instead of doing damage control. It was no masterpiece, but I saw the vision for contrasting the SP with something more ethereal in an attempt to show her progress from Grieg and to also highlight what was perceived to be a strength over her international competition of similar age. Unfortunately, I think her growth did also impact the overall impact of that strategy, as her jumps were much more labored last season (those 2A's were horrendous!) and that just is a terrible combination with that style of program.

I really feel that the program would still be twee and precious, even in a blue dress. It's not just the dress, even though it was awful, it was also the choreography. The problem is, Polina is not as ethereal in reality as she thinks she is. She was looking plenty gangly pretending to be a fairy. Perhaps there are teenage gangly fairies I am not aware of. I recall her being a guest on TSL, saying she is the one balletic skater since Cohen, and Jenny and Dave asking her very pointedly if she'd ever watched a recording of herself skating.

She needs to stop thinking she is balletic just because she has long limbs and has taken lessons from what appears to be a substandard instructor, and embrace her innate awkwardness through modern music. Watch, she will do Swan Lake next year. In full feathers.

 

[shine]

I recall her being a guest on TSL, saying she is the one balletic skater since Cohen, and Jenny and Dave asking her very pointedly if she'd ever watched a recording of herself skating.

She needs to stop thinking she is balletic just because she has long limbs and has taken lessons from what appears to be a substandard instructor, and embrace her innate awkwardness through modern music. Watch, she will do Swan Lake next year. In full feathers.

You just can't get over that can you? I watched that interview too, and if she said she's the one balletic skater since Cohen (which I don't recall her saying or mentioning Cohen), I would disagree with her too because because I don't find Cohen balletic. Her arms were not expressive at all. I wish we would stop using using that word so loosely.

 

[topaz]

I think Polina is balletic.

Video 1
Video 2

 

[IceAlisa]

I think Polina is balletic.

Video 1
Video 2

Here we go again. Do you really think I've never seen these?

If you want to know why I don't think she is, PM me. I have a laundry list. Thinking of making it into a ppt

 

[topaz]

Here we go again. Do you really think I've never seen these?

If you want to know why I don't think she is, PM me. I have a laundry list. Thinking of making it into a ppt

LOL, just give me a few on the laundry list.

 

[IceAlisa]

You just can't get over that can you? I watched that interview too, and if she said she's the one balletic skater since Cohen (which I don't recall her saying or mentioning Cohen), I would disagree with her too because because I don't find Cohen balletic. Her arms were not expressive at all.

It's a shame that Elena Cherkasskaya, a former Bolshoi principal dancer who trained her, had so tragically wasted her time... Elena worked so hard on Sasha's port de bras (drink! I said port de bras @my little pony)

I wish we would stop using using that word so loosely.

I couldn't agree more.

LOL, just give me a few on the laundry list.

Going to PM you.

 

[CantALoop]

My apologies, but I think her GWTW program totally sucks.

At the Olympics, Nomad.
The Grieg.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't get the love for her Grieg 2013-2014 FS...I found the music, arm flapping, and throwaway moves just as boring as Tinkerbell.

For some reason, I like Polina's 2014 and 2016 SPs, but her free skates...

 

[danibellerika]

You just can't get over that can you? I watched that interview too, and if she said she's the one balletic skater since Cohen (which I don't recall her saying or mentioning Cohen), I would disagree with her too because because I don't find Cohen balletic. Her arms were not expressive at all. I wish we would stop using using that word so loosely.

She mentions Sasha (and Caro and Kwan) as skaters she admires around the 35 minute mark and then calls herself a lyrical skater like Sasha and Caro at the 46 minute mark.

 

[VGThuy]

At least all the American women are giving us something to talk about, even if it sometimes requires an interesting reimagining of what they actually said or an interesting spin on what they meant. Of course some times, the skaters do all the work for us, .

 

[Jammers]

Unfortunately Polina seems to like slow ponderous piano pieces when it comes to her music selections and that just highlights her lack of speed and power especially when she goes into her jumps which sometimes i don't know how she lands with so little speed. Those things are hurting her even more then her packaging and she needs to improve on those things if she wants to move up the standings.

 

[IceAlisa]

At least all the American women are giving us something to talk about

I don't think FSUers suffer from the lack of topics to discuss regardless of what skaters say or don't say...

 

[VGThuy]

I don't think FSUers suffer from the lack of topics to discuss regardless of what skaters say or don't say...

Very true! That's why we keep coming back.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't get the love for her Grieg 2013-2014 FS...I found the music, arm flapping, and throwaway moves just as boring as Tinkerbell.

For some reason, I like Polina's 2014 and 2016 SPs, but her free skates...

MY 2 favs programs of Polinas are her 14 sp (cha cha) and this years SP.. the rest.... meh

But those 2 SPs are FABULOUS!!!!!!!!

 

[overedge]

I really feel that the program would still be twee and precious, even in a blue dress. It's not just the dress, even though it was awful, it was also the choreography. The problem is, Polina is not as ethereal in reality as she thinks she is. She was looking plenty gangly pretending to be a fairy.

Or not as ethereal as her team thinks she is.

I think Polina has a lot of potential - with her height and her long limbs, she could do some really amazing and challenging programs - but she needs some kind of push to grow artistically. I really wish those around her would focus less on her age (or on what they think is "age-appropriate") and more on what she might be capable of doing.

 

[all_empty]

Finding a style that works for the skater AND the judges takes a long time. Sometimes it never happens. And if a skater sticks to a signature style too much, then they get labeled as boring.

I don't think Gracie has a signature style. Nor Mirai. That doesn't mean they're bad skaters. How would you define Ashley's? Mature and sexy?

Michelle Kwan competed as a senior for three seasons before her Salome transformation. And the following year when she did Taj Mahal everyone said it was too similar. And then post 2001 critics said all her programs looked the same. But when she tried The Miraculous Mandarin it wasn't well received.

And one skater's style doesn't work for another. Remember Jenny Kirk and her quickly scrapped Indian program?

Personally, I don't think Polina's GWTW is atrocious as others say. It's better than Tinkerbell for sure. I rewatched her Nationals free skate and actually she hit the music highlights pretty well. The dress was not the worst, the hair ... a risk that didn't pay off.

Had she won the title and not withdrawn from Worlds, I'm curious if she would get a PCS boost as the reigning champion. The confidence of being the champion may have given her some extra confidence and command as well.

Again, give her some time.

 

[Karpenko]

Polina needs subtle nuances so the way she naturally skates can breathe more - not something with powerful/dramatic and swooping melodies.

Give her Chopin or Rach and keep the SP. Then sit back and watch her rise up the standings and become a US Champion. You have to work with her way of skating, not mold her style to something that isn't her. It may have pushed her but it never worked, not once all year.

Now is the time to get serious, Mr. Rudy.

 

[IceAlisa]

Rach IS powerful and dramatic usually. What piece are you thinking of? And Chopin is too much like the SP in genre, romantic piano music. So no to both of these from me.

And I will remind you that Kwan was all of 15 when she skated to Salome. I thought MM was very interesting and innovative from Kwan. Gracie has definitely found something with her Firebird and back in 2014 with the Grieg SP. Mirai has had a few good programs that were her. Ashley is Ashley.

Polina is still mired up to her banana curls in her team's bad taste. Save Polina.

 

[npavel]

I'm really sorry for Polina, she is quite consistent and I hope she will get great programs (uups I'm dreaming) until next season, but I'm a Mirai fan. I like her when she performs with confidence and is happy to be out there. Unfortunately she often didn't do so, but at this years 4CC I was so happy to see her there with her skating. Now, fingers crossed for her. I for myself prefer her to Ashley and Gracie

 

[Karpenko]

Maybe Fur Elise (anything but Bells of Moscow honestly) or something similar - Rach does have powerful melodies but there's so much light and shade, and lots of background tempos that would work SO much better with her skating than GWTW.

Polina is the one skater I've seen in person (besides Yuna) where TV doesn't do her skating quality justice. You can only really see it when the music works with it, her cross overs and ice coverage/blade work are honestly to die for.

She also has that awkward thing which can make for a program when she's trying to make it work (wasn't really a fan of the 2014 SP )

Rach IS powerful and dramatic usually. What piece are you thinking of? And Chopin is too much like the SP in genre, romantic piano music. So no to both of these from me.

And I will remind you that Kwan was all of 15 when she skated to Salome. Gracie has definitely found something with her Firebird and back in 2014 with the Grieg SP. Mirai has had a few good programs that were her. Ashley is Ashley.

Polina is still mired up to her banana curls in her team's bad taste. Save Polina.

I think her/Rudy are probably good friends and it can work one way or the other, I think that could factor into their ideas a bit for programs.

I actually love Rudy's choreography, but the ideas they have are just a bit too indulgent sometimes (which I can relate to artistically because it's fun to do new things, but you're a potential world champion - so.. ) and it's what prohibited her from beating Gracie at Nats this year. If she had a long program that worked she absolutely would've won IMO (I think Gracie deserved it).

 

[IceAlisa]

Ummmm... Für Elise is Beethoven, just like Moonlight Sonata. Not Rach. At this point almost anything is better than GWTW, I agree with you here.

But again, no to two similar pieces. A skater should show range, not have two programs that are identical in genre.

Polina is the slowest skater of the US top 3. She sometimes almost seems to come to a stop when she jumps, it's amazing that she makes them happen. No power, no real speed, not like Gracie and certainly not like Caro. Not even close. I've seen them all live. Polina is good, solid in terms of SS but not outstanding.

But the thing that she lacks that I find striking is the star power, the IT factor, whatever you call it. Not there, and instead flat, cutesy juniorish posing, for the most part. It's easy to take one's eyes off her, go make a cup of tea. Her one outstanding quality is her good competitive head. In good, competent hands she may make something of her career.

 

[Karpenko]

whatever I'm not a classical music aficionado (info has been noted I did know that Moonlight Sonata was Beethoven though ), and agree with the lack of star power. Her skating is what sells a program so it needs lots of subtle nuances. I think two similar programs would work for her right now.

It was early season Glacier Falls I saw both Gracie and Polina, I thought at least in the SP Gracie was the slower of the two and she didn't have the ease and fluidity over the ice that Polina had. Then again Gracie also had about 20 lbs of rubies and bling on her costume at that time (so it all makes sense).

 

[IceAlisa]

Gracie is a far more powerful, fast skater, she tends to run out of ice. Some of the posters worry she may hit the boards.

As to music selections for Polina, I've already mentioned a modern classical piece for her. Maybe they could edit some rest stops into it, it's a bit saturated tempo-wise.

 

[Spun Silver]

Polina needs to ditch Rudy and run back to Klimova, who knows what to do with her and how to get her to dance. She is fiercely loyal to him but at her own expense, IMHO.

If she's burned her bridges with Klimova, there are Zoueva, Wilson, Bourne... any number of choreographers who could give her more interesting, competitive material.

 

[Karpenko]

She'll never leave Rudy, let's just hope they've listened to the LP feedback this year.

If next year they do 'Frozen' ( it's only a matter of time..), 'Cinderella', or 'Moon River' then they've officially lost their sh!t and are just rubbing it in.

 

[WanderlustTO]

That's too bad for Polina. I'm happy that Mirai will get to go - she deserves some good luck.