You are Green/Parsons' advisor. What should they do?

[Icetalavista]

Coaching change? To whom? Hubbell, Moir, Marie-Universe/Patrice, their old coaches (despite the team that shall not be mentioned), other?

Partner changes? again, to whom?

Program music/choreographer/style/ theme changes? To what? Quirky/angular as in their 'great leap upward' Martha Graham program?

I love them. 4 continents RD result is esp disheartening.

 

[marbri]

I think the main question is aside from the Martha Graham program what else have they done that stands out, that is memorable.? Who do people think they are? Who do they think they are? Do they have a vision or are they just competent skaters?

I can't tell.

 

[sap5]

Maybe they should fix any injuries they might have?

 

[skategal]

I’d like to know what is going on with Michael first before deciding for sure but if everything is well and he’s just recouping an undisclosed injury, I’d say go to IAM (Patrice and Marie-France).

If all is well with them they should really go for broke and give it a try at IAM where they have come up with some great introspective contemporary dances for other teams and could do great things for Green/Parsons too.

 

[Tinycities]

Might be best to wait until after the free dance but what stood out to me in the rhythm dance was how labored they look.

 

[skatingguy]

As @sap5 says, injury issues, if any, should be addressed. Not sure what's up with Michael but he doesn't look comfortable on the ice, and it's showing up in their elements. I'm not opposed to a coaching change, but it has to be for the right reasons, and there would need to be a long, deep discussion about what the goals are, and how to achieve them, particularly from the artistic perspective because that's what's holding them back. Just now thinking about Soucisse/Firus, and how they were seen during the 2013/14 season similar to how Green/Parsons were seen during the 2021/22 season. Soucisse/Firus stagnated after that season, and then switched coaches, and now countries, and are still searching for that break through 10 years later. So switching coaches may not be the answer either.

 

[Rukia]

I'm not sure I feel like iam would work for them. To be honest they just feel a little lost, but I also worry about some kind of underlying injury or something. Until they can address that nothing is going to work. They definitely need outside choreography too if staying at mida.

 

[Karen-W]

I said it last week and I'll say it again - if GreenP do consider a coaching change, I think they should go to Karine Arribert or YGA. I don't think any of the North American centers are a good fit for them.

 

[sap5]

To me they remind me of CPom, who had been stagnating, then we come to realize that Anthony had been skating on a bum ankle and they had been compensating for that as a team for years. Addressing that injury meant that Christina had time to work on her basics, while Anthony had time to heal. Anthony is now seen as the "weaker" skater, but to my eye, he's made a remarkable amount of progress in a single season, considering where he started re: his ankle. All to say, if there's an injury, a careful approach can work wonders.

Something definitely seems to be off about Michael's skating, and IMO, the earlier their season ends, the more time their coaching team has time to address any underlying issues.

 

[Laura4]

I'm in agreement with everyone here who think something is going on with Michael. Whether it's an injury or a loss of confidence, I hope they can overcome it and get back to where they used to be. I think they should stay put with MIDA another season and see how it goes. I wish we could've seen the program they were working on with Killikov. Dave Lease said it was a great program, but once they made the move to MIDA, they were told they couldn't take the program with them.

 

[Wyliefan]

Their lift was better today, at least!

One thing in their favor is that they're very versatile. They did great with the Martha Graham program; they did great with Rhapsody in Blue after it was reworked a little (and I always thought their Thoroughly Modern Millie RD looked fantastic on them). They're good at classic and at contemporary. There's a lot they can do, if they can just work out whatever's affecting them. I too think they should stay where they are for now and try to get more settled in and address any physical problems, and get some outside choreography.

 

[BlueRidge]

New partner for Caroline. She's just at the point of maturing and a good fit of someone of comparable age would be great for her.

 

[sap5]

I think the main question is aside from the Martha Graham program what else have they done that stands out, that is memorable.? Who do people think they are? Who do they think they are? Do they have a vision or are they just competent skaters?

I can't tell.

I thought their vision of themselves was as dancers of "the old school" -- they both like learning compulsory dances, they like working with off-ice choreographers to learn technical aspects of dance to bring onto the ice, etc. I thought they'd be a good fit for MIDA because of their partnership with the UMich dance program, although I don't know what that partnership entails.

 

[her grace]

Since they are similar in size, coaches who have managed teams with small height differences would be ideal. But as to Parsons' recent errors, as a longtime Parsons/Parsons fan, He-Parsons' mistakes at critical moments is not exactly new.

 

[Dobre]

Use the off season to strengthen and/or develop lifts that suit their physical dynamic. Confidence there will take them a long way.

Stay together.

 

[Frau Muller]

Keep following the modern-dance track that they had in 2021/22. Stark & modern. I can imagine Twyla Tharp/Philip Glass musings.

 

[PRlady]

Unlike Hawayek/Baker, they don’t seem in charge of their creative vision enough to keep coming up with interesting programs. That means coaches with a real feel for that aspect. I doubt Arribert would be a good cultural fit, her teams are just so French, and IAM isn’t answer for everyone especially with the team that now has surpassed them, CPom, in that stable even if at the satellite site.

Stay with MIDA another year but work with ShaeLynn on programs, I think.

 

[skatfan]

Finances also play into this. Training outside the US is costly and and usually means they can’t coach on the side for income.

I was hopeful at the end of last year that they would settle in at MIDA and thrive. Not sure what’s going on with Michael but his lack of consistency this year has cost them dearly. I’m sure it was pretty bitter to place behind Zingas and Kolesnik yesterday in the RD.

If they aren’t connecting with their coaches or feel others getting more attention they will need to look elsewhere but that should be the last option.

 

[Belsornia]

I agree with everyone else that Michael looks like he's skating with a lingering injury this season. If that's the case the first thing they need to do is turn down down a reserve spot for Worlds and take as much time off as is needed so he can get treatment/rehab/whatever is needed to get completely healed.

Also agree that if they stay with MIDA they need to look to outside choreographers.

One thing in their favor is that they're very versatile. They did great with the Martha Graham program; they did great with Rhapsody in Blue after it was reworked a little (and I always thought their Thoroughly Modern Millie RD looked fantastic on them). They're good at classic and at contemporary.

I was thinking about this recently in the context of a different team. The flip side of versatility is lack of a distinct identity. What is it that stands out about a Green/Parsons programme? What makes their skating different from other teams? At the moment their identity seems pinned to the Martha Graham FD as much as anything. There's some work to define it in a more expansive sense.

From the outside it's hard to tell if the coaching situation is a problem. Last season's programmes were bland, but they were on top of their game at NHK, US Nats and Worlds. If they're dealing with injury or some other external factor this season they could still be getting what they need from their coaches (except perhaps advice to take some time off). But they've been at MIDA 18-ish months now and if the relationship isn't working it's long enough to know. Count your losses, send Tanith a bouquet and move on.

I said it last week and I'll say it again - if GreenP do consider a coaching change, I think they should go to Karine Arribert or YGA. I don't think any of the North American centers are a good fit for them.

I don't think they should go to YGA. Sure, they could race Taschlers and Mrazeks and an ever increasing number of Czech junior and novice sibling teams everyday and improve their speed, but Zanni is a much weaker choreographer than coach so his weakness matches theirs. Arribert could be interesting; she seems to have a distinct formula for her teams, but it could fit them well. I was also wondering about Margaglio; he seems to have done a great job in bringing our the different on ice personalities of his teams. I also get the sense that Caroline is someone who could thrive in a completely different environment.

Splitting is the nuclear option. I don't see anything to suggest they're at that point. But with any team with such a large age gap there's a concern that their competitive peaks won't coincide. Is this blip something temporary or do they feel that they're no longer well matched in that respect? What are their goals as a team now? Olympic medal in 2030? Or making the US team in 2026 before Caroline goes on to medal in 2030 or 2034 with mystery future partner? If their long-term goals don't match, should Caroline start looking for someone whose goals do now? (But who's available?) If they are in that situation - and again, I don't see signs that they are - she shouldn't wait around so Michael can have a shot at going to the Olympics.

Who knew I had so much to say about Green/Parsons?

 

[chameleonster]

I don't think that G/Pa have the personal funds to train outside of North America. Additionally, Caroline already had to give up her place at her planned college to make the late switch to MIDA and the University of Michigan. Moving again could disrupt her education further.

I thought their FD had a lot of potential when I first saw it, but for various reasons they just don't seem comfortable with it and haven't grown into it they way they should have by this point in the season. If Michael does have some kind of nagging injury, they need to take care of that first and foremost, as they just haven't been reliable this season. I wonder if they could work with Jean-Luc for choreography.

 

[Cayuse]

1. Stay together!! It takes most teams 8-10 years to achieve much of anything. Caroline and Michael started out on a fast track because they had the same coaches and training style growing up. That rarely happens. So now they are in a little slump and have to regroup (happened to Car-Pon, happened to the Shibs)

2. If there’s an injury, they certainly need to address it. But we have no confirmation of an injury.

3. Their free dance concept wasn’t bad and I really liked parts of it. But it needed someone to tear it apart and put it back together with some additional umph to keep our attention. They can skate with speed, so why does their choreography move so slow in places? I think outside choreography might be needed, but who? Most former dancers, Shae Lynn included haven’t touched any dance programs.

4. The high lifts are a non-starter for this team.

5 If they like the atmosphere at MIDA, they should stay there, or go back to WISA, not IAM. I think the trio at MIDA will really put their heads together to try to find a way forward for Caroline and Michael.

 

[princeton123]

I don’t think a coaching change is the answer to everything but I don’t get the feeling that Michael and Caroline fully buy into whatever Charlie, Tanith and Greg are doing. There just doesn’t seem the be the trust and belief there. It’s obvious in the kiss and cry especially when you see how CPom interact with Scott

 

[once_upon]

My thoughts which based solely on my likes or dislikes of programs

1. They previously stayed with long time partners and their respective siblings. You may look like you gel quickly but 1 or 2 seasons won't make a quick bond. Madison Hubbel was an exception I think. They need time, but because they zoomed up so fast, that's a detriment to development. Everyone, especially them, thought it was going to happen (I think that's a finger snap emoticon?)

2. Heal. There is an injury that hasn't healed in my opinion. It's only get worse if they dont.

3. Stay with one training center. It takes time to gel with a camp. If I recall the Parsons and the Greens grew up in a single camp for years. Can't change every 1-2 years and expect better results.

4. Money - if is a problem, there will be trying to go to the top too fast in order to get funding. Maybe it's not going to work.

 

[sap5]

https://twitter.com/goldenskate/status/1754027868554682454

There are injuries just as we suspected.

 

[skatingguy]

https://twitter.com/goldenskate/status/1754027868554682454

There are injuries just as we suspected.

But no specifics on the nature of the injury. Whatever it is I hope they can get some rest now, and get an early start for next season. Maybe not going to Worlds this year will work in their favour in the long run.

Side Note: That's an interesting spelling of both battling, and handling.

 

[Holy Headband]

They need to get healthy, get programs that play to their strengths (like their SPEED... where did that go???) AND are standouts in the field stylistically, and switch to a coaching team that knows how to politick. And they need to do all these things in the coming offseason because next year is a pre-Olympic season and at this point it’s far from certain they’ll even be selected for the Olympics, let alone make the necessary good impression on the judges to prep for a successful Olympic campaign.

Switching to YGA would be a high-risk, high-reward move because Zanni certainly knows how to play the judges, but I’m not sure he would know how to play USFS. IAM would be my first choice for them if there weren’t already 100 teams GPa want to beat training there.

There are no obvious answers, apart from “get a set of great programs,” which is up there with “improve your jumps and skating skills” in terms of unhelpfulness. Splitting a year before the Olympics with the US ice dance field as crowded as it is wouldn’t make sense IMO. But Michael’s health is a big question mark here; if he’s really injured, I hope it’s nothing too scary and he can make a full recovery after some rest.

 

[Evgeniafan]

But no specifics on the nature of the injury. Whatever it is I hope they can get some rest now, and get an early start for next season. Maybe not going to Worlds this year will work in their favour in the long run.

Side Note: That's an interesting spelling of both battling, and handling.

I actually hope they are not named for alternatives. Next season and the Olympic season are so important, so get rest now. I think its unwise to change coaches now, just maybe a different choreographer.

 

[valykat.m]

Find something that makes them stand out. I enjoyed their more quirky programs. Their FD music this year is so depressing, I just lose interest in the program and in them.

 

[justtojoke]

The hand ringing for these two is a bit weird. Given their interview after the FD at 4CC rest is the best thing for these two. Hopefully they can take a break now that World's isn't in the cards and HEAL. It sounds like they rushed their prep this season due to injuries but that is just speculation on my part.

Like others have said I think we're seeing growing pains in real time but I think they should stay together and stay put with their current coaches. I could be delulu but they have time for the momentum pendulum to swing back in their favor this quad.

 

[Tesla]

I think an avant-garde program to Handel would be cool. Or Night on Bald Mountain.