Why Canada's sports organizations say they can't stop most abuse in sport

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Not specifically about skating, but very relevant, CBC investigation into abuse in amateur sport in Canada.

 

[MacMadame]

Martin Goulet, the executive director of Water Polo Canada, says it's unfair to hold NSOs accountable for cases of abuse and maltreatment that might take place at local clubs and associations.

"Most NSOs don't have the capacity to do this. They won't do a good job or they're going to drain all their resources into this," Goulet told CBC News.

"And who is going to suffer? It's going to be the athletes at the end of the day, because programs for athletes are already poorly funded."

Cry me a river.

I hate this argument that organizations (and companies) can't do what's right because it will actually hurt the athletes (or customers if it's a company) because there will be less money (things will cost more) for them. Because having one less practice session a week is going to hurt much more than being raped?? No.

IMO the real culprit is not that there isn't enough money or time to get materials to send to clubs but that people turn a blind eye to abuse for various reasons especially if the abuser and/or victims are producing results. That's a cultural problem.

Also, do all NGBs in all sports in Canada only field National teams? Because I'm pretty sure Skate Canada does work at the grassroots and also clubs need to belong to it just like they do in the US with USFS.

 

[skatingguy]

Also, do all NGBs in all sports in Canada only field National teams? Because I'm pretty sure Skate Canada does work at the grassroots and also clubs need to belong to it just like they do in the US with USFS.

Provincial/Territorial organizations usually govern the operation of clubs in their respective areas, but there is probably some variation between sports. I know that for example local skating clubs are members of Skate Ontario, local hockey organizations are members of the Ontario Hockey Federation, and local tennis clubs are members of the Ontario Tennis Association.

 

[pat c]

IMO the real culprit is not that there isn't enough money or time to get materials to send to clubs but that people turn a blind eye to abuse for various reasons especially if the abuser and/or victims are producing results. That's a cultural problem.

That, plus lack of volunteers. People are busy, don't want to, can't afford to, and don't want to go in and get criminal record checks. So, yes they turn a blind eye to the abuse. The only solution is for people to become involved. Is it going to happen? Unlikely.

 

[MacMadame]

The

That, plus lack of volunteers. People are busy, don't want to, can't afford to, and don't want to go in and get criminal record checks. So, yes they turn a blind eye to the abuse. The only solution is for people to become involved. Is it going to happen? Unlikely.

There are numerous youth organizations in the US that require background checks before adults can work with children. I haven't seen it significantly dampen volunteering.

It hasn't in one group I belong to where a bunch of us didn't just get background checks but also took the Safe Sport training when really only one of us had to do any of it. (Or none of us most years as we had a contractor who had done it and counted.) But we thought it was important.

 

[overedge]

I don't completely buy the "NSOs can't afford it" argument. There's a moral question as well as a financial question. If the NSOs are benefiting financially from the performances of their high-level athletes (provincial/federal funding, corporate sponsorships etc) then IMO they have a moral obligation to ensure those athletes aren't being abused or exploited.

For some of the larger NSOs, anyway, they are also paying corporate-level salaries to their top national level staff while expecting clubs and sections to be operated mostly by unpaid volunteers.

 

[pat c]

There are numerous youth organizations in the US that require background checks before adults can work with children. I haven't seen it significantly dampen volunteering.

Not for those that want to. It's basically just a lack of volunteers for all the reasons I mentioned. It isn't just sports, there is a shortage of volunteers in lots of areas.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Unpaywalled Hill Times article about how some of Canada's women politicians are leading the inquiries into abuse in Canadian sports.

 

[Ananas Astra]

Hey, there's no time for dealing with "peanuts" like this when they are too occupied with much more important issues like promoting same-sex pairs or gender neutrality in figure skating or re-naming elements for them to be politically-correct.
You gotta respect their choices. #priorities #diversityftw

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Hey, there's no time for dealing with "peanuts" like this when they are too occupied with much more important issues like promoting same-sex pairs or gender neutrality in figure skating or re-naming elements for them to be politically-correct.
You gotta respect their choices. #priorities #diversityftw

Um, part of rooting out abuse is promoting justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion. Without JEDI, abusive patriarchal systems remain in place.

 

[overedge]

Um, part of rooting out abuse is promoting justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion. Without JEDI, abusive patriarchal systems remain in place.

I completely agree. But I also feel that some NSOs are doing the quick and easy things so they can point to those and say "look how inclusive we are", while not doing anything about the more pervasive and long-standing issues. I would feel more confident if I got the sense that these initial changes were part of a well thought out overall plan that would lead to larger structural changes.

 

[MacMadame]

The renaming of elements is low-hanging fruit. But changing entire disciplines to be gender-neutral actually takes a lot of work. You have to go through all the rules and figure out how same-gender pairs work into them, what works for women-women, men-men, and women-men, and how to make it all fair when they compete against each other. And this change will impact many, many people. It's a big deal. And important.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I completely agree. But I also feel that some NSOs are doing the quick and easy things so they can point to those and say "look how inclusive we are", while not doing anything about the more pervasive and long-standing issues. I would feel more confident if I got the sense that these initial changes were part of a well thought out overall plan that would lead to larger structural changes.

I'm currently criticizing a nonsport organization I'm involved with along those exact lines.

 

[Vagabond]

I don't completely buy the "NSOs can't afford it" argument. There's a moral question as well as a financial question. If the NSOs are benefiting financially from the performances of their high-level athletes (provincial/federal funding, corporate sponsorships etc) then IMO they have a moral obligation to ensure those athletes aren't being abused or exploited.

For some of the larger NSOs, anyway, they are also paying corporate-level salaries to their top national level staff while expecting clubs and sections to be operated mostly by unpaid volunteers.

If they can't afford it, then they should go out of business because they will end up paying one way or the other if they do not.

I am sure that when allegations of widespread abuse within the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts of America started to emerge, those organizations made similar statements.

The Church (or, rather, its dioceses) ended up selling many buildings to pay for settlements and judgments, and the Boy Scouts went into bankruptcy.

 

[overedge]

If they can't afford it, then they should go out of business because they will end up paying one way or the other if they do not.

I am sure that when allegations of widespread abuse within the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts of America started to emerge, those organizations made similar statements.

The Church (or, rather, its dioceses) ended up selling many buildings to pay for settlements and judgments, and the Boy Scouts went into bankruptcy.

And the same thing may yet happen to Hockey Canada.

 

[4rkidz]

When I was an official in another Olympic sport it was our group that pushed and created vulnerable sector checks for volunteers/coaches etc it is a culture change that is needed, when I retire I plan on returning to sports again at a higher level as currently there are still too many parents involved who don’t necessarily want to rock the boat or change the systems in place. I think we need an independent person (I would do it) that does a program evaluation of all the clubs and ensures they have built in policies and systems. I observe micro aggressions still going on with coaches and officials still. Fears of upsetting the apple cart.

 

[Aussie Willy]

There are numerous youth organizations in the US that require background checks before adults can work with children. I haven't seen it significantly dampen volunteering.

Anyone who is a volunteer in skating here in Australia needs to have a Working with Children check and it is applied. No-one has a problem with it and we accept it as a standard for the sport.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

CBC Frontburner podcast with former figure skater Jayme Poisson on Canada's Safe Sport Crisis.

 

[4rkidz]

Lanni Marchant is testifying right now at the hearing in women and girls in sport. Highlighting the abuse and called Kerry Leitch out by name. Brave woman sharing her truths! Lannie was also a track star for Canada. Now a former national soccer player, all sharing the same toxic stories. Awful.

 

[4rkidz]

Anyone who is a volunteer in skating here in Australia needs to have a Working with Children check and it is applied. No-one has a problem with it and we accept it as a standard for the sport.

It’s a good step but with the lack of actual charging of abusers it is not enough.

 

[overedge]

It’s a good step but with the lack of actual charging of abusers it is not enough.

I don't think @Aussie Willy was claiming that it would solve all the problems. But it's better than not having any screening at all.

 

[4rkidz]

I don't think @Aussie Willy was claiming that it would solve all the problems. But it's better than not having any screening at all.

Yes that’s why I said it’s a good start. Unfortunately what has happened here is they have made that mandatory but it doesn’t deal with the issues or the culture that creates the abuse. Becomes a bit of a cop out.

 

[overedge]

Yes that’s why I said it’s a good start. Unfortunately what has happened here is they have made that mandatory but it doesn’t deal with the issues or the culture that creates the abuse. Becomes a bit of a cop out.

I don't agree. I don't think any NSO in Canada is using screening as its only way of addressing abuse, or claiming that screening is the only thing that's needed to keep kids safe. Sure, many of the complaint systems etc are ineffective or aren't being used as they were intended to be used, but that doesn't negate the importance of screening.

 

[overedge]

Here is a transcript of the parts of Lanni Marchant's testimony this week (as linked by @4rkidz above) about her time as a figure skater, training with Kerry Leitch. I've put it behind a spoiler because some of it is explicit.

Spoiler: Spoiler: descriptions of abuse

I grew up as a figure skater. I trained at the Champions Training Centre out of Cambridge, Ontario, also referred to as the Kerry Leitch figure skating school. I started there when I was in Grade 3 and stayed there through my first bit of high school.

While there I was weighed in weekly, fat tested monthly, and had the results posted on the wall for all to see. I was a pre-teen female and made to share the dressing room with skaters much older than me, male included.

It was normalized to be yelled at to the point of tears, and heaven forbid you get pulled into dressing room number six with Kerry Leitch. If you were not perfect you were made to run laps in the parking lot. I guess the silver lining is that those running laps for me turned into running laps at the Olympic oval.

Many of my teammates were not as fortunate. Nipple grabbing and discussing of the development of my body was a daily occurrence, with older girls passing on tips on how to stay small, skip periods, or avoid going through puberty altogether.

Male coaches and fellow skaters would prop us up on their laps to have "chats". Because it was a pairs training centre it was normalized to have parts of your body touched by men and boys to demonstrate lifts or moves. Their hands would linger.

The entire culture was toxic and overly sexed. I left that environment when I discovered running, but my body dysmorphia stayed with me.

 

[4rkidz]

I don't agree. I don't think any NSO in Canada is using screening as its only way of addressing abuse, or claiming that screening is the only thing that's needed to keep kids safe. Sure, many of the complaint systems etc are ineffective or aren't being used as they were intended to be used, but that doesn't negate the importance of screening.

Im saying the same thing, Screening is important but they need to address the root issues